can someone suggest me a few good websites that have good info on diffrent sizes of stroking a 400 block and just about the whole motor itself? And the diffrences.

or off the bat can someone tell me what the price diffrence/peformance diffrence would be if i stroked a 400 to a 406 or stroked to a 427 or 434? Is there anything to worry a bout stroking a already big engine that much? Would there be a driveablity diffrence? Is it worth it?

I would probaly be topping the engine with a HSR and im assuimg the motor would make an BOAT load of torque so would i have to have more worries about body flexing/suspension other then if the motor was just kept a basic 400? Thanks.

also can say a 427 be somewhat mild as i might have a chance while its DD to swap in the motor which im hopping i can (if i do go thru with this) but i dont wanna be having 400hp and 600lbs of torque right off the bat tell i have money to spend for extra bracing, suspension upgrades, etc.

 

There isn't very much room in a 400 production block to stroke it. Just about every 434 kit available is designed for an aftermarket block. The cylinder walls of a production 400 block are also very thin. A .030" overbore is the safest size you can go.

I don't know if a 400 SBC can be made into a 427. That's commonly an LSx stroker kit.

To make a "big" small block, you need more than just a stroker kit. You need to get air and fuel into the larger cylinders. That means much bigger heads. Production heads just won't feed enough air for any kind of performance.

It'll probably be easier and cheaper to just buy a prebuilt 434 and drop it in.

 

There were 434s long before World introduced their blocks. Most early 434s were in production 400 blocks. And those guys were all trying for well over 500 horses.
production 400 blocks aren't that bad. If you find a 2-bolt-main version, and fill the water jackets with Hard-Blok or the Moroso equivalent, right up to the bottom of the water pump inlets, then you can safely make 900 supercharged horses.
That would require ARP main studs and an align-hone, however.
As for a 406, it's just a 400 overbored 0.030", it's not a stroker.
If you look at post 8 of my best builds sticky, you'll find a recipe for a streetable 400 making 525 horses and 525 ft-lbs torque.
a build like that will kill any stock transmission, you'll need an aftermarket upgrade of some sort, and likewise with the rear axle.

 

With a lot of clearancing done to get a stroker crank to work. For the average person, this isn't an option. The aftermarket blocks are cast to accept stroker cranks.

 

for me it seems that it would be more resonable to build a 350, but my heart desires for a 406. If cost was to ultimaly be about the same (same with driveablity/reliabilty) then i think there would be no reason to not go with the 406. Will the 4-- be breaking stuff left and right more then a 350? I know i need to do reinforcment stuff either way (tranny/rear end/sfc,etc.) But I dont want the bigger engine to cost me alot more and screw with me and make me wishing i went smaller. Will my MPG be around the same being that i'll be using HSR (possibly LT1)

I think im mostly about having sloppy drivablity and breaking parts. Theres still trying to decide between a 406 or larger if i go that route though. Also what is the diffrence between stroking and boring? I one just using a bigger crank and the other using larger pistons?

 

Anytime you increase the stroke of a stock engine it has to be cut internally for connecting rod clearance. any of them. 383's, 391's, 421's, and 434's. The only exception in know if is the 454 bbc can be stroked to a 481 or 496 with out grinding.

Depending on how much you engine builder charges (here in CA they are all out of their minds) it can be pretty expensive to stroke an engine.

a 406 is not a stroker. Its a 400 bored over .030 very easy to do. That's why everybody has them. 421's and 434's are a little more.... intrepid.

Are you going to run good aftermarket heads or stock heads?

What is your ultimate goal for the engine? daily driver or casual strip or aggressive strip?

answer these and I'll help you out.

 

525 ft-lbs isn't gonna be enough to cause "sloppy driveability". 700, maybe, but not just 525.
a 406 built to make 525 ft-lbs is capable of averaging 15 mpg in town, and over 20 on the highway. But an injected 350 can do 20 in town and 25-30 on the highway.

 

but what is boring exactly? is it just like porting the valves?

I honestly cant say if it will be a DD or not, but if everything goes well, then yes she'll probaly be a DD and i want to take the car on plenty of highway trips 100+ miles each. I'll probaly run alumi aftermarket heads but i may be stuck with stock but im hoping for decent alumi heads as i would like a bit of weight loss and better weight distrbution.

Say if i can find a good condition, low mileage 400 will (or in my best intrest) would it be better to rebuild the entire engine or am i safe throwing new heads/intake/cam/tune?would 15 adverage would that be with something close to hsr or is that more of an well tuned carb deal?

 

For an all out build, a 420+ inch sbc will have a slight edge in power over the 400-406 based on cubic inches.

In general street/strip setup, it really isnt worth it to do a stroker unless you want the number. 427 does sound cool. It should be possible on a 400 block as there are guys stroking 350 blocks beyond 400 inches. I think you can get 421 out of a 350 block, some of the vette guys are doing it.

A good 210 head and big hydraulic roller will get you bottom 11s all day long on a 406 and be driveable. Solid roller can get you mid high 10's and still be streetable. 4.125+ inch bores breath well, so feed it with a large head and you will have a great powerful combination.

Should beable to get decent mileage out of it with HSR and good tune. My mid 11 sec 383 got great mileage. High teens for sure although i never really measured it. I'd say it was close to 20 easily on highway.

400's do have some torque, so dont be scared of a larger head/cam setup. The bottom end will still be there, its hard to get rid of it. My 9 to 1 compression 401 with mild 233/233 hyd roller cam will EASILY move my camaro around with 4000 stall and 2.73 gears. Plenty of low end and thats with a single plane EFI manifold.

 

Thank you
a 427 sbc would defintly be neat and maybe sometime down the road i might do that but i know i'll most likely wont have the money to do all that. This would all be done with my hard earned money.

A low 11's - mid 10's defintly sounds like the car would be pretty untouchable as most people dont have anything special, the top cars iv seen around here is a c6 z06, gtr, and a custom built lambo muci which i have no idea whats dont to it but defintly isnt stock. Not saying i would compete with that but I think it would defintly hold its own

A adverage of 20mpg would be very nice. So with larger heads/cam would the engine still be able to make power up top? If i could get an all around motor it would be great! What would be an optimal rear end gear? something close to 3.42?

Also will a 3in exhuast setup work fine for the motor? And will i need any intense cooling components? Or will a good radiator/fan combo be fine? And what would i all need to rebuild the tranny? Im sticking to 700r4 peferably. Am i better off rebuilding the engine? I would rather not but it would give me the chance to add forged pistons as i might wanna run a decent hit of nitrous to add to the fun.

 

You can do things on a budget if you shop around and find the parts for the right price.

My buddy's 406 is based on a GM block, all forged internals, miniram intake, ported AFR heads that spec out to around 210cc and 300cfm, Mid 10's to 1 compression or so, a 25x/25x solid roller cam with low .600's lift I believe, and a T56 6-speed. Great street setup and runs 10.6's at 130mph ON MOTOR. Aint a gutted race car either, its a street car.

Do not know his mileage but you dont need a setup that wild to have fun. Can go with a high 230's low 240's duration hydraulic roller and similar heads to get low 11's at 120's mph and still be streetable. With HSR and tuning, you should beable to achieve decent mileage with 3.42 gears, lockup converter in the 700r4. Tranny would need built to handle the load of that motor tho, but overdrive is essential to gas mileage.

Larger cam/larger heads are necessary to support 6000+ rpm worth of power on a 400+" motor. My buddy's car peaks around 6300 with a miniram choking it, so we expect 6500+ peak rpm with a converted single plane intake. Its not really that aggressive for the motor.

3" single exhaust is going to choke things alittle. 3.5-4" would be necessary. That 406 makes over 470whp on motor alone. That needs big pipe to breath. 3" collectors, 3" ypipe to 4" would be ideal. Thats what he runs I believe, dont think he's changed it since then. I ran 4" on my 400whp 383.

Good rad/fan combo should do well. Just get heads with steam holes drilled in them for the 400 block.

For a wilder combo like the ones I'm talking about, i'd rebuild the motor with forged pistons and rods. crank may be ok for up to 6500 rpm. I wouldnt go over that and you dont really need to.

If you ran nitrous on top of these motors your looking at bottom 10's or high 9's depending on the hit. Forged internals are necessary for safety.The 406 above when it ran a smaller head/cam setup running 11.0's at 126-127 went 10.0's at 136-138 best trap on a 150 shot.

You can run a much milder 400-406 combo with a medium duration cam, shoot for mid 11's on motor and be much more docile on the street. Use a 150 shot to get mid 10's. Thats what my 383 did, 11.4's on motor, 10.6 on 150 hit. Fun streetable car. I miss that motor. Turbo motor is being a PITA

All depends on how much you want to spend, where you get parts, etc

 

So to get somewhere in the 11's are we talking about a pretty good chunk of money to do this? I really think mid 12's is all that would be necissary for me honestly. I think it might be ideal for me to run a 3in exhuast (magnaflow) with a 3.5? electric cutout. Also before i forget, this WILL be legall correct? As long as i just have a sniffer test right?

I would without a doubt love a 9sec car but i dont even think im ready for that, I think a mid 12 sec car would be plenty for me. Not just that but im not sure if i will want to do a rebuilt right then, i can get a bit better mpg then, and rear ends wont be snapping left and right.

But the reason i want a 400 is because it could be made to be MUCH MUCH powerfuller when wanted. I also want to be able to run on pump gas if this wasnt already verified.

 

Legal? well that depends on your regulations. In PA if you drive 5,000 miles or less a year, you are emissions exempt so you dont need any components. Others that have visual/sniffer tests will not pass. If you have connections, you can get anything to pass.

Your build will change based on this. You can get 11's without too much money spent. 12's is MUCH easier but you dont need a 400 to do that. 350 will do that.

HSR is not smog legal. Miniram isnt either, although they have an EGR kit available so it may or may not pass the visual but will help on tail pipe sniffer.

With cats and the right tune, you can make good power for low 12's maybe high 11's and still be smog legal. Depends on how strict your state is on the tail pipe emissions standards.

Nitrous becomes your friend in these cases. Car wont be that fast on motor due to emissions requirements but you can spray away and be very quick.

3" exhaust can support 400whp based on what some lsx guys do on their cars but its choking the setup. A cutout in the right location will be advantageous.

I wouldnt expect to find a 30 year old 400 motor and expect it to run ok either. Either way i think you are looking at a rebuild to freshen things up. Now you dont need forged internals for 12's so you can save money. Forged pistons are a good idea if you want to spray it at all. Cam wont be nearly as big now to pass emissions. Your intake will be limited if they have visual EGR check. If just a tail pipe you can run without it but the tune and cam choice will need to go hand in hand. May still need to keep your AIR system on the headers. A good set of shorty 1 3/4 heads from Dyno Don are just the ticket. I'd run dual cats on the ypipe and it should pass emissions with a medium-smaller cam. Heads will need to have an EGR crossover if you use an intake with EGR. Else you can do a vette setup and tap into the header for the EGR gas source. I think thats how the miniram kit works and how the Scoggin Dickey Vortec 357hp TPI motor works. They sell the kit for like 60 bucks I think.

So a 400 is still good idea for you since you can go small on the heads/cam to pass emissions but with large cubes you have power. If you ever decide to get nasty with the car, cam it up.

If you want for now, built it right the first time with the internals and heads you want, but cam it small and tune it well to pass emissions. Then all you need to do in the future is to just swap out cams to allow it to use motors full potential. Just got to watch out for compression. Need to find a compromise because big cams like more compression but compression and small cam wont run on pump gas. GM LSx technology uses big heads/cubes with small cams to make efficient powerful street motors and they respond well to cam swaps I've seen a big head small cam big block motor make impressive power/torque for what it is, much more than expected with such mild cam. Seems to work well for a base build, before you want to get into some power

 

I might just rebuild it for something like 11's/12's on motor but keep a 150 shot for backup. Maybe i'll change my mind down the road but i dont think i need any single diget car tell i start really get into this stuff.

When were talking about 3in exhuast do you mean a true dual 3in or just a single? Do you happen know the price range of dyno dons headers? I would like if possible to run hooker headers 2055's (Includes y-pipe) if possible because im planning to run those for the 305 but im guessing those would be to restrictive being there be 101 more cubes.

I might just run ok alumi heads and smaller cam for lower compression and to keep the price/power down tell i want a boost in power. But i might just say screw it and go for all the power the motors worth

. Is there a certain block i should look for when i get started? Im assuming there are no stock alumi blocks are their?

 

Have the block sonic checked to know how thick the cylinder walls are. Compression should be based on the cam you want to use. Get some good (iron is okay) heads to allow good airflow...400+ cubes need to breathe. Search for used parts, but very observant or you'll get burned. A final note, invest in 6 inch steel rods.

 

You have some options. Are you set on the 400 block? A 383 will do what your asking and is much easier to build since 350 blocks are everywhere. If you are set on a 400, you need to find a decent core and have it checked out. SOnic checked to test for cylinder thickness/cracks like above said and if the block checks out, run it. I think the 2 bolt main blocks are the ones you want, and possibly convert it to 4 bolt splayed main caps if possible.

You can go with flat top pistons and a large cc chamber head to drop compression for now to go with a smaller cam, then swap out heads later with some smaller cc heads to bump compression back up. Most aftermarket heads will keep their value up for resale so you wont get burnt too bad.

Its the best bet I think, because if you build the lowerend for small cam/lower hp, trying to raise compression for a larger cam becomes much more difficult. Have to swap out pistons or live with low compression. Heads are easier to replace than pistons IMO and the net cost can be cheaper.

Just my opinion on how i'd go about this. I've been there with my 383. I was going to try to turbo that but just couldnt drop compression down that much without changing pistons. I was trying to just swap heads. Didnt want to do pistons so i spent the extra money on a new 400 SHP block and started from scratch. Worth it, but pricey in the end.

I was talking about single 3" being restrictive on anything over 350whp. Thats about where you want to be to run lower 12's and higher 11's may need 370-380whp to comfortably get in. I'd run 3.5" if possiblefor single or dual 2.5 down stock location if using shorty headers.

I dont like hooker 2055's for a big inch motor due to the small 1.9-2.0 inch collectors. The ball/socket were small. I was able to open mine up to 2.25" but the small 1 5/8 inch primary is kinda small for a higher hp/higher rpm big inch motor. It will work with a milder combination but the primary doesnt cover some head's exhaust ports like the new AFR's. Just too much overhang in the port. Need 1 3/4" to cover effectively. Dyno dons I think are comparative in price. PM Dyno Don and see if he will sell a set.

 

i think im set on a 400, a 383 wouldnt be bad either but arent stroker kits nearing 1k? what car/truck can i find a 400 from? Or would getting it sonic checked/main caps splayed be about the same as a stroker kit for a 350?
I like the idea of doing a 400 though as i could make power simple and easy.

If i found decent deals how much do you think i could expect to spend just for the engine if i get decent deals on stuff and do it myself? I'll check out don's prices if i decide to go thru with this.

also how long do you think my 27k mile, non pushed 305tpi could go tell blowing up with say a 100 shot occasionaly? For now i wanna get the 305tpi into low 14's and im thinking of using a bottle to let me hang around lightly modded lt1's, i should be good for what, around low 13's?

 

Hard to say, depends on the machine shop but you may not need to do this with a 12 second motor. I was just thinking of building it solid the first time so you can just quickly upgrade some things for more power down the road. Its good for strength.
To do a 383, yes the stroker package will cost over a grand depending on the parts you get. All forged you looking at 1400 bucks easy. If you do cast crank/I beams and hyper pistons, maybe 800 bucks or so. All depends. Just easier to find a good 350 core.

I dont know what would be needed for the 400. Certainly bore clean up and new pistons/rods. Crank may be reused if it checks out at the machine shop. Not sure how much power i'd run thru it or how high I'd spin it. More than enough to handle a capable high 11 second combo I'm sure.

I've seen good heads go thru here for 800-1000 bucks. If the factory crank is good and you need new rods/pistons, lets say 600 for those, rough estimate. Rings/bearings couple hundred plus machine work which will vary. Maybe decked/bored/sonic checked/acid bath around 500 or so.

You could shop around for an already built motor. Seen some good deals go around. I sold my 383 shortblock all forged with 1600 miles for 2000 bucks. Thats a steal.

305 should handle a 100 shot all day long if you keep the air fuel and timing in check. Pull 4-5 deg to be safe and keep it in the low 11's or so air fuel and it should live along time.

 

thank you for breaking down the parts list! so you think a 383 would be considerably less? I might just go for a pre-built engine. Are you thinking more of a crate engine deal or someone that is selling a longblock? Hmmm... decisions, decisions!

 

You can get a built engine with a performance report and a warranty for about what you would pay to get all the quality parts and have a used engine totally built up by some bumpkin.


Check these out: http://www.worldcastings.com/ or http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...hevy_sbc.shtml

 

custom built motor vs crate. The advantage with custom from a good shop is you get exactly what you want inside of it. Crate motors from other vendors you will have to search to see whats available. Some places advertise one thing but have optional items to get what you want.

My 383 was built by Golen Engines. We talked about what I wanted and eventually got what I wanted in the shortblock. Was abit more pricey than the total parts list cost, but they are reputable and it was worth it to me at the time to have it assembled by them.

My 401 with dart SHP block I had machined from CNC Blocks Northeast. I bought the internals from him too, had it all balanced and prefit to check clearances, then it was shipped to me in pieces. I assembled from there to save money and it was rather easy and fun.

Another thing with custom built motors from a shop is that they usually do a better job than mass produced motors. Balance job is better, clearances are better. Just more attention to detail that in the end will make more power and last longer.

Depending on what you get, it may cost about the same to go either 400 or 350 style block. 400 is abit more rare so you have to find a good casting and then get the internals for that motor if it doesnt come with any. 400 cubes is always a good idea for a street motor but it all depends on the goals and how much you want to spend. Research is key here and price things out to the last detail to figure out how much you want to spend.

Or you can just spend money alittle at a time and never write it down so you never know how much you spent on the car Eases the pain haha. What you dont know dont hurt.

 

thanks for the links, will defintly check them out!

thanks, i cant really make a decision now since this wont be anytime soon but my optimal choice would be getting the engine professinaly custom built for me.

also i got 2 off topic questions,
1, should a 305tpi car with old but decent tires and less then 100miles on them, everything being stock, be able to spin the tires with less then quarter throttle from a low mph roll? and be able to smoke the tires easily with just quarter throttle. My mother and i did a little so called "testing" of the car today and it did just that. As far as i know its pretty much stock other then new stock replacment cat, no muffler and thats it. it will also shoot to the redline very very fast with less then 3/4 throttle. Sorry not the best description but it just seems much quicker then a stock one should. I'll try to get a vid if wanted

2. should i be able to look inside the head thru the oil filler and see thicker, yellow inside in spots and on the back of the oil cap? Im think this is some sludge, should new oil/filter take care of this?

 

Sounds normal. Take it to the track and you'll find out just how slow it really is.

Sounds like water in the crankcase. Could be condensation that will be cleared with a flush and fresh oil, or could be a coolant leak into the crankcase.