I get like that too...
So seriously, im going to ask one of "those" questions... You dont think, the 334 given TPI335's results would be worth it for someone wanting the car to appear completely stock? I seem to think so, hell, even Joe Sherman told me he tried it with decent success. But yes, the 350 would be the better idea.
I need to finish out discussion on heads...

 

A 339.5 with stage 2 vortecs and long-runner TPI should kiss 400 crank horses on an engine dyno, if cammed correctly, and assuming no accessories.
( electric water pump, fresh battery, no alternator )
I'd say it could peak at 5200.
Cam would probably require a custom designed intake lobe. The Xtreme 4x4 HR 263 lobe might be a decent start. I'd probably use the XFI HR 270 lobe for the exhaust.
Those, with a well-considered LSA, should give a solid baseline close to 400. It'd need cranking compression over 200 psi at sea level, and should need octane booster all the time. Best to build with flat tops, then decide on milling the heads, but the KB pistons are dished. So that means custom pistons, which allows 6" rods, which allows internal balance.

 

I may try it... im not kidding. I think it would get decent mileage, be fun to drive, appear stock and with the $600.00 kit be affordable.
You first have to understand I am trying to keep this car as stock as possible. Its a "keeper" car for me, like what my parents had when I was a young buck. So I dont want to do anything drastic.

 

BTW. I just got my wife her new car, I will pick her up in it on friday. Total surprise! I had to get her something new in order for me to do some things.

 

I really think you should step up the stroke. the 4" crank is $490, the rear seal adapter for '86-up blocks is $100, 6" rods start at $150, the only difficult part is the custom pistons.
And since you need those, you may as well go at least 60 over. Make it a 362.
The 377.4 is just a bit more boring and a little bit of block filler, just up to the bottoms of the large holes for the water pump. That'll still give you another 100,000+ miles of street driving. If you use EFI, a 195 stat, and cruise below 2200 rpm, it should go 200,000 miles. Come on, you know you want 450 ft-lbs from a "305" ( block )
Yes, the 339.5 with KB pistons and E-Tec 170 heads and a supercharger would make more power and better mileage, but it's difficult to hide the blower. Do it rear turbo like Squires / STS, then it just looks like a CAI kit. But the BOV gives it away.

 

That bottom end is more expensive than the Powerhouse and this already is a hard enough build expense to swallow if your know what I mean... So... I spent ALL last night, looking up tunedport335's posts, and I have to admit, it actually impressive! Stock heads, xe264 cam, stock TPI, edelbrock TES, high flow cat and catback, with 2.73 gears got him a 13.4@97. Here's one of his posts that describes most of it.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...5-stroker.html

 

For the record, my stripper IROC runs 13.7x...305 lb9/t5...

Tune/full exhaust only,and on a 245/50/16

ive even got some vids from 06 i could upload, puttin the HURT to a few ls1's

Some 305's can run very well, ive had a few that do..but the majority dont, most people invest the money into one trying to be different, and then get upset and discouraged when the motor underperforms...

iroc above went 13.77@95 by the way.

 

Upload them, along with those pictures of the LQ9 fox you said you would.

 

its not an LQ9...its an LSx fox lol..

what kinda pics you want?

ill upload the vids later on today or tomorrow morning..

 

The mounts. I think Atilla and everyone else can get an idea of the fitment and are you using an LS1 oil pan?

 

yeah, just an FYI, gmpp now sells a car oilpan kit..

comes with the pan,windage tray,dipstick,all the hardware, and the gaskets for 175 bucks...

 

Got a p/n for that? Sounds like the H8 pan kit, which hangs down too much for a 3rd gen swap.

 

If tunedport335's IROC had your rear and trans he could be breaking into the 12's if he had traction. I would say that's "OK" just to be different. I wouldn't do it personally, but it's not my car.

Atilla if you don't mind me asking why are you using sand bags to weigh down the fox-body?

 

I have pics from when I had my LM7 sitting in my 'stang. I also have old pics from last time I had a 350 in it. Most of those 350 pics are showing the mounting and the clearances. I'll be happy to post them if anyone wants to see.

 

#3

 

I just researched it, it is the H3-Alpha pan. It hangs too low for the Mustang, also. But since Kingtorquer committed to a brake kit, the 305 is going into my 'stang. When an LSx fan commits to one of my brake kits, then my LQ4 will be going into my Trans Am. How about it, kid? You have some funds, and 2 relevant Camaros.
I will do a money-back satisfaction guarantee, and my CNC-machined 1-piece steel brackets will be far overkill.

 

To make it a fair comparison. The average 305 third gen with interior is at least 3350 with driver and fuel, so to make it fair, that's what I'll sand bag ( literally ) up to.
In my case, I get to put all the extra weight at the very back, for traction.

 

about right on the money...

my full weight 5spd formula is 3340 with 3/4 tank...

My stripper iroc weighed 3100, no power anything...crank windows..etc etc.

 

i wanted to toss a DR or slick on the car...but, going that slow with a DR or slick, is kind of lame in my eyes..

with a tire, i prolly coulda got the car to go 13.40s/50s..

 

My bolt on L98 at full street weight minus drag wheels/skinnies went 12.95 at 103.8 at 188ft DA ona coold PA day. Most cool fall days it would run 13.2's and 13.3-13.4's in summer warmer air, DA in the 2000ft range. Thats only 254whp/315wtq peak numbers. I would hope a mild cammed bolt on 305 could match those hp numbers, since an LB9 should be around 200whp stock.

 

Kingtorquer asked about drilled rotors. I've found some that are readily available, good quality and fairly priced.

 

I vote option #2 but skip the 200-4R and use a 4L60E. Run the whole thing with a 0411 on a modified L30 5.0 2002 Express Van tune.

As for a 305 not being able to run.......

1980 C10 Longbed @ 4,300 lbs
.040" over 305, flat-top pistons, Crane 272H10 cam, 810 TBI swirl ports (64cc chambers, 1.94/1.50 valves), edelbrock performer RPM Q-Jet manifold, tweaked M4ME Q-jet, HEI distributor, shorty headers, dual 2 1/2" exhaust, TH350 with a 2,600 stall, 3.42 gears, open differential, and 29" tall tires. Has run a best of 9.74 @ 77 in 3,600 DA with a 2.45s 60'. We are putting a GMPP Vortec Q-Jet manifold and 059s on it sunday.

 

Why is your truck so heavy? My '83 C-10 longbed 6.2 diesel is less than that, with 700R-4, and dual exhaust.

 

Fuel and driver(240#)...Area behind seat crammed with junk. 6.2 diesel is not that much heavier

 

Your BS is unbelieveable! Why is it that every week another fool has to attack me for NO reason?
The 6.2 is heavier than an all-iron 454. It's more than 250 pounds heavier than any 305.
And mine has dual tanks. That's 40 gallons, and diesel is heavier than gas.

 

nm

 

nm

 

nm

 

Moderator note: As I've asked before, please keep it on-topic. If you want to pick a fight, find your own playground. I'm sure there's a junior high somewhere close to your neighborhood.

 

I've found an LG4, I'm still too sick to go get it, and I'm not sure yet as to what year it is, I hope it's an '87, not just for the roller lifters and the 081 heads, but also for the computer. Otherwise I may need to let it sit, and invest in an '87-up block and crank.
In the above pics that I posted last night, ALL of the bolts holding the Moroso's to my car are grade 8, with matching nuts. All were 3/8", but then some got up-sized to 7/16" wherever it was possible. The 2 half inch bolts are grade 5 for now, but I did order a pair of grade 8s. The adapter plates are 1/4" and threaded, and I there used grade 8 again.
The plates are from Advance Adapters, for putting an SBC into a 2WD S-10 originally built with a 4.3, and have proved themselves under a 355 in my own S-10, last summer.
I'm disappointed in TxTtopZ for not following through on a pair of stage 2 Vortecs he promised to buy from me, and in One92rs for dropping the ball twice now in another pair of Vortec 350 heads, but this means I already have a pair of Stage 2 Vortecs ready to go onto the 305.
In the interest of having the car ready when the track re-opens next spring, I think I should focus on the car this fall, then do the engine over the winter. But I'll continue the steady stream of pics, as often as possible.
The brake kit is progressing nicely. I guess I'll go start a thread on that.

 

Just want to change the name of the thread.

 

Good start man!

We'll soon see how that foxbody runs when the distributor is installed in the "correct" part of the motor.

For the ECM check out Ebay if you don't have luck with that LG4. There's a good supply of '87 L69 ECM's on there for cheap. That's what I plan to do with my current CCC Qjet build for the better timing table.

 

Kinda hard to imagine a top notch famous engine builder, building a car in the dirt with his tools in the dirt...but at least there's progress.

also, being in utah, why so much rust on the kmember and surrounding areas?

 

I want them, mommy had to have a new ride and that took priority. We got a 2007 1LT HHR with all the bells and whistles. The gt40p 5 liter equipped mountaineer got sold to a friend, for car parts and $1000.00 bucks, it had 178,000 miles on it, ran like a top. So -new update atilla, heads either will go on a 350 880 block, or the 305, but thats another topic. Things right now are pretty rough, and I am looking at a new job as a machinist that pays better. I will find out tomorrow. I am tired of working on other peoples junk, and never wanting to touch my own.

 

Good luck with it, Last one I got was an 85. You never quite know what you're going to get I was hoping for an L69/LB9 hi-pi cam but it's just a crappy peanut cammed engine. Oh well that's fixable. Galley plugs look like they're tapped and have threaded plugs so I don't really think I can be sure of what it is 100% till the heads come off. If they do. Sort of thinking this is going to be my "hot spare" for when I hit my current one with boost.

 

i vote for option 3......same reasons as everyone else...just another vote

 

Your points are valid, so let's consider them.
First, working in the dirt. The garage is full of engines and other current projects. Would you like pics? Right this second, there are 5 other engines in the garage. And 2 transmissions.
Second, car tools are not engine tools.
Third, pics taken in daylight don't show the tools getting wiped off and put away every night. The drill also got blown out with compressed air.

As to the rust, that car hasn't been in Utah any longer than I have. But Northern Utah is not a dry desert. That car has been on Utah roads, in the winter, and with the Bonneville Salt Flats and the Great Salt Lake so near, you better believe they use salt on the roads much more than sand. I did buy the car in Northern Utah, while visiting with relatives. It's been driven in Utah with each of it's 5 engines to date.
Most importantly, it's a Mustang, just like millions of others. Not a classic mustang, either, but an '80s Mustang. It's not worth preserving. Let it rust. It's cheap thrills, not an investment. It's just cosmetic rust for now, not structural, so it'll still be safe.
Anything else you've observed?

 

Thank you for the lead, but this build isn't what I want the '87 computer for.

 

Where's your thread on that? I want to see what you're adding boost to, and what will provide the boost. And the configuration, my eyes would feast on that, too!

 

Atilla, i have the utmost respect possible for you. Not only do you come one here and help out hundreds of TGO members, but you also take their SHlT. All while going through chemo. I don't understand how you do, i am only 16 and i just finished building my 84 trans am and i took out my 305 for an old 78 vette 350. I personally am in love with an lsx swap, but i HATE fords lol, so i am content with any gm motor in a ford. I hope that the build goes smoothly, and that you make a swift recovery from your cancer. I am just dieing to know who you are lol. My dad has been racing for 20 years and i have been doing it with him for 10, and we know almost every engine builder out there, if you ever pm me with your name i would greatly appreciate it, i wouldn't tell anyone! Good luck and hope you feel better

 

Thank you, sincerely. That's the best post I've ever seen.
I had to own and drive my first Mustang , an '81, for a while before I learned the difference between Fords, and '80s Mustangs. Technically, there is no difference. But...
My dad felt a private preference for Chevrolet, but used Fords about as much, so I had exposure to both.
Here are a few indisputable, independently-verifiable facts about the 'stang versus the third-gens:
The GM got it more right to start with. Especially with the spindles, and the torque arm / panhard bar.
The Mustang got it more right with the lighter weight, the true dual exhaust, and the 8.8" axle.
The Mustang currently has available for it, stuff that can take it much farther than the third gens can go. Most especially above all else, the Griggs Racing GR40 SLA IFS. It's around $4,000, but with it, and other mods I could spec, the 'stang does have the potential to out-lap ZR1s, R35s, Koenigseggs, and so on. Plus do it for at least $30,000 less than any of them. Plus still look stock from 10 feet away.

 

My dad is the same way except he only buys Chevrolet, however he still has respect for fords due to their heritage, without the mustang there would be no Camaro, Firebird, or chevy for that matter. I agree 1000% about how the mustang has far more potential however that is becasue it has a much larger after market, if companies would invest as much time into 3rd gens as they invested into Fox body's then they would be just as fast. Anything is possible if we put our minds to, however companies just look at the $ and dont share the passion we have.

 

Atilla, I love the 305, and I am a traditionalist. I have always believed there was a reason why things were the way they were and that thats because things break down if they are not. Being this way has been good to me for the obvious reasons but has also even made me hard headed and rebellious! I still think TPI is better suited on a 305 or smaller SBC than anything, and I love the look. However, I can no longer betray my right to speed, drivabilty and my ultimate dream, which is to have a third gen camaro that lets others know, the body style is alive and well. I ultimately want LSX power, but I want it from 5 liters of GM with EFI!
Blessed Be:
Atilla! Build the mother of all 305's! Make it soar, fast, fierce, hungry! Be it a predator of oath to the speed demons of hell to which all ye to who challenge fall like the rusted plague stricken mortals of which they are, in nothing but a blink of the eye, in the beholder of time travel to which you will be. Prevail, against the might of all! For the time of the Legend has come! They will whisper your name in trembles with shattering knees, blast waves will kill all things internal combustion preceding from when you appear! They will remember Atilla, cursed and wretched, snarling and haunting, like the headless horseman, in a 5.0 with 305 that screams like Satan! Go my son, make it so! The last word belongs to you!
- Amen.
(sorry, been watching transformers with the kiddos) but it was worth a shot! :P

 

You'd probably get a chuckle from it but it's a short length Astro van with an LB9 that I have ported the heads/intake on it, added a 204/214 cam and am planning a pair of Grand National turbos that I have here. The problem is going to be space for the GN turbos so the debate is flip em and get a single that flows ~60-80lb/min or cut two holes in the floor behind the seat and add "humps" to make them fit.

Management is a MS-II (burned my first one up so this is #2, mistakes involving low-Z injectors) and fuel is going to be a 307M backed with 28.5lb/hr injectors initially and then 39#lb/hr Cobra injectors I have sitting on the shelf.

The idea isn't as much to make huge power (hey it couldn't hurt to) but to have an educational experience I am thinking ideally I could see .95 hp/cid from this engine, but I suspect that it will be quite a bit less than that. Only one way to find out. The plan is to build a few combos up. This is my MK-I engine, it had crosshatch in the bores still and 125K miles on it when I got it. MK2 is going to probably be the L03 I have here with a 91 TPI cam (the good one) 193s that are ported by me with good or back cut valves (still debating that) and a good valve job. I am going to do more intelligence on these heads than I did last time, as I said I want to build a flow bench. I am thinking about playing with reducing the floor area with epoxy (actually I am going to use clay, then flow it to get the idea of the shape I want first.) I started today by taking a mold of the exhaust port. I did the intake but it didn't turn out. I just used a tube of RTV I had laying around that was going to probably go hard anyways. I saw a guy do this once to Ford heads and thought it was a good idea. See attached. These are way different in the exhaust than a 416 is I can tell by how they feel and really tell by how they look.


This is what's up of my build. My van also has a home built 700R4 (getting replaced by a TH400 after the turbos get on it) and a 9" with 3.0 rear gears. Thinking of bumping to about 3.24s and leaving it at that.

http://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=8554

 

Why 193 head if you dont mind me asking? Just what was laying around?

 

Guys, I like your input, but NO MORE 193 talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT in THIS thread, anyway.

 

The 305 is the way it is, not because it was a good idea, but because smaller bores reduce emissions, and GM wasn't sure the 350 would continue to pass. We all know now that they found ways. But the 305 was the cheapest solution. Nothing more.
TPI isn't small-cube only. Show me any other way to get a pump gas 383 to make 530 ft-lbs by 4000 rpm, without nitrous or boost. Noone's ever found a way, yet, besides long-runner TPI.

 

No offense intended, but wrong cam and wrong turbos. Thanks for the link.

 

Its still what came in the car, and thats what it meant.

 

Go with a single T70. Works well on 5 liter motors