nm

 

no room for debate here...

i didnt even read past the first 10 words in option one or two...

go with option 3, PERIOD. though, id change that setup drastically...

Go with L92 heads, a beefier cam for l92/ls3 style heads[ this is important, dont use a cathedral head style cam with l92's}, a 4k converter,and spray it...go bottom 9s. DONE!

 

315 HSR - 3 reasons.
1. Cost
2. Intake choice of LQ9 (wont fit under stock hood) and I like the stocker (camaro)
3. I have never seen a purpose built 305, even the magazines use stock short blocks. What you are talking about doing may surpass every 305 build to date. It will make 400hp give or take, scream to 6500rpm and most of all it will be fun. There is a "Top 4 list of bad *** 305's and this will make 5" #1 of 5 that is. Its got that "memorable" potential.
4. (okay so 4 reasons) It will match the 5.0 on the fender of the Mustang, but it will be gm!

I have to admit, getting LSX power is the main goal of most third gen owners, but seeing what a 305 "needs" as far as a learning ability and not just a HCI endeavor is what interests me. I am a sucker for SBC tech...
On the other hand, please know, what you are building for, if you choose the 305 you will be stuck with what it makes, unless you change the heads, and run some boost.

 

cost?

do you really think it's cheap or easy to make a 305 quick? if it were, why dont you see any?

building an lq4..isnt that expensive...can be done under 3k if one shops wisely and will run circles around any 305.

his choice of parts on the lq4 are rather terrible lol

 

No way can the LQ9 be done for under 3. The engine is cheap, but then we are talking accessories, wiring harness, ecm, mounts etc. I challenge you to find one, with EVERYTHING you need for under 3 grand. Then on top of just the swap he is talking performance heads... If you can do it, i'll change my vote.

 

with patience, and resourceful looking, it can easily be done..

ive seen RUNNER lq4s for 500 bucks before. headers are around 600/700 new...and 350ish used.

harness can be done yourself by reading the many stickies on ls1tech..truck harness can be used....buying one from an fcar is around 200{highside}

ecm's are cheap and plentiful...

ls6 manifold is 300 bucks..

kmember is 300 through AJE with ls1 mounts

heads can be found for 300/400 used EASILY..and many times much cheaper...

gaskets are 200

cam is 200{can easily be cheaper on tech}


this leaves 650 for misc crap...or possibly more, as the deals ARE out there.

 

NO changing the setups. This is for education, not lowest possible ET. Just typical ET.
I AM THE expert here in matching setups, I don't want anyone else trying to advise changes.

 

nm

 

Do you still need an F-Body oil pan with the AJE K-Member?

 

First, I got the LQ4 for $800, complete, from LKQ.
Second, my choice of parts is perfect for a street driver, Power-Tour-capable, relaxed middle-aged man, Honda-killing, good mileage getting, budget build. Until you try this exact combo, you're not qualified to evaluate it.

 

yes, i forgot to add...GM has introduced the car specific oilpan as a kit, with the pan/pickup/windage tray..all new for under 200..

truck pan works, and i beleive vette pan works, but the truck pan hangs down low.

 

I don't know. I hate AJE. It can be done using the stock heavy, stamped-mild-steel K, whch I will if everyone votes for the LQ, and I'm having to use all my Griggs Racing SLA IFS money for Chemo.

 

uhm...everything ive mentioned is the same combo...no reason it cant be daily driven with an overdrive behind it..lockup converter, and it would get 20+ mpg easily.

and... uhm...



you were saying?

and heres a video of my HCI LS Camaro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym5S2ha9CVw

ive been playing with ls stuff for a LONG time.

 

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with AJE, or anthony himself...he is a great guy to deal with in every way...and puts out a great product for the money...

i have his kmember in my formula, had one in my mustang and put several more in mustangs.

 

you are the self proclaimed expert eh? if you're such an expert...why are you asking us what to go with, and why?

you mention these wegner ls6 heads...which ive never heard of, but look to be around 800/1000 bucks..couldnt find flow numbers either, but for a 550 dollar porting job...i doubt they flow what a stock L92 will..

so i simply ask, why pay for more, and settle for less?


expert at matched setups you say?

that statement above kinda blows your self proclaimed expertise out of the water doesnt it?

Experts dont build perfectly matched motors, and then risk sending a compressor wheel or two into them because of cheap chinese junk..

You sound like a very arrogant person, but in the end its your money, i dont care what you do!

 

Option #3.

Because it's the future.

 

Any particular reason you'd punch the 305 out to .060"?

 

I was looking simply at the cost. For example an F-Body oil pan for $200 vs. (any) K-member for $300. It might be worth it?

I'm for keeping the stock K-member too as it's my understanding there isn't supposed to be much of a difference over all. But if it's cost effective, is set up for an LS engine and clears the stock pan and accessories then it might be worth it.

 

there is significantly more weight savings with a mustang kmember, vs fbody...

and yes the aje mustang k member can be had with ls1 mounts...ls1 will bolt right in like it was factory. truck pan will clear, but like i said, hangs low.

 

I'm familiar with the weight savings with tubular K-members, but also recall how they had a lot of failures early on due to road shock. Some were later reinforced to address that issue. I've also read many times that the cost/performance ratio between stock and tubular K-members and A-arms was not enough to justify doing so. I'm also familiar with the AJE dropped spindle thread that was a huge disappointment for many here. It's neither here nor there. I was simply looking at the cost effectiveness and/or some advantages to it as a quick question and thanks for clearing up the question on the oil pan.

What's more important is not to go too far off topic in this thread. I like a lot of Atilla's threads and learn a lot from them so I hope that the confrontational and tangential posts can be set aside so we can get back on topic.

My apologies for contributing to it as well.

 

i say #2, wont be as much as an hassle, cheaper, and it seems everyone, either if its gm or not is doing an lsx swap, but you dont hear of many GM 305's into stangs. Yes there is an reason, but hey why can someone be an little diffrent at times. Btw i think an HSR would be the intake your going want.

Good luck with your choice AND your cancer battle!

And were in the hell is the face palm smiley when you need one for bird boy?

 

All bs set a side - im sure the 0.060" over is to unshroud the valves from the 1.94 intake valves. Just because they will clear a stock bore doesnt mean thats whats best. More than a few head porters use either 1.84's with 238cfm or go to a 1.90 if the seats are trashed. Thats not an option with Vortec's...
Expert or not, it's still his build and I seriously doubt any mocking from you will sway anyone's opinion so can we get back to topic?
Now you say you have that LSX fox, answer some questions for me.
1. I asked if you could get it done below 3 grand because I have been talking about this swap with a few guys here and they have the swap and say it wont be easy. Meaning unless the HP Gods throw LS1 vette, or F body accessories at you next time it rains it gets to be too expensive,
2. How are the truck accessories in the FOX? too tall? too wide? Foxes done have as much room in there.
3. Show us some pic's of your K member, I want to see how good it bolts in, thanks.

 

#2 I am more interested in seeing the streetability of it versus the power output in some ways admittedly

 

Yes, but you're a stupid racer, The L92 heads cost at least 30 ft-lbs below 2500 rpm, and I've driven a 4000 stall, it's NOT street. Nothing over 3000 is. You don't know a damn thing about speccing torque cams that still make good power, and the L92 heads also hurt mileage.
My LQ4 combo above, in an '03 Silverado, put down 359 rwhp at 5600 rpm without nitrous or boost, and did 27 mpg consistently. In my car, it should do over 30 mpg.
I've been doing street combos longer than you've been alive. Get out of my thread, and stay out. I'm not counting your vote, since tou can't even understand simple instructions.
BTW, WTF does that stupid pic have to do with anything I've typed?
five7kid, please help me with this punk. He's stressing me out.

 

He's stupid. He doesn't move the control arms forward, he doesn't raise the rack mounts, he doesn't address ackerman or anti-dive, the Maximum Motorsports K does all of that, at a similar price. The only intelligent thing Anthony does that MM doesn't is offer Chevy mounting.

 

First, I'm here on TGO to help people. I'm curious which they'd find more applicable and educational.
I've driven all three combos, each has it's own appeal, each is fun in it's own way. You don't need to run 11s to have fun. A 13-second combo can be even more fun, used correctly. I have a low-11-second Fiero, so my 'stang doesn't need to be quick. You need to grow up.
Second, this is a street car. So the port volume of the L92 heads rules them out. No port velocity, cylinder filling and torque at 2000 rpm. FAIL!
Cathedral port is the ONLY option for true street driving. Period. If you can tolerate your stupid combo, great for you, I guess. A pair of Chinese turbos on mine will destroy yours, still pass emissions, and still get twice the MPG, all for a lesser investment of $.
The Wegner heads are an insanely cheap $700 per bare pair, so it's time someone evaluated them. Beyond just me riding in my buddy's Silverado.
If you don't care what I do, why keep attacking me?
I am a famous engine builder, nationally known by every car guy in America, but I've gone into reclusion because of my cancer. I've had to tell a few lies to keep my identity hidden, but I help an awful lot of good people, who have student mentalities. They do me great honor.
As for Chinese turbos, first, they aren't that brittle or fragile. Second, I do prepare for compressor wheels letting go, by adding steel screens between the compressor and the intercooler, and again between the intercooler and the engine.
As for matched combos, yes. Which size turbo would combo 2 want? I know, but you don't. STFU!
five7kid, I've really had far more than enough of this son of a purple Smurf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thank you! I love it when people ask questions. It's very friendly.

First, 305 walls are thick enough to hold supercharging, even when bored to 3.875".
Second, they are worthless blocks. So if you do wear it out after building it 60 over, save the pistons and get another block.
Third, 60 pistons don't cost any more than 30 pistons.
Fourth, the reduced shrouding of the intake valves.
Fifth, 5 more cubes is 5 more ft-lbs.
Sixth, More static compression!!!!!!!

 

Years ago I already proved that an '81 305 block, bored to 3.875", will hold 12 psi of supercharging.

 

X 2.

 

Thank you. I've already had my LQ4 in my 'stang, and the truck pan is too low, but otherwise fits very well. The absolute cheapest option of all is to weld 90-degree angle iron to the stock K, with a trailing 1/4"-steel skid plate, so that if the car does go over something, the 45-degree angle might allow the object to force the car up and over, scarring the steel skidplate instead of cracking the pan.
This might not pass inspection in all areas, but only adds about 5-10 pounds, and my car is not lowered, plus I never drive on dirt roads.
I'm more interested in reporting back later on the combo results than how to fit it to this particular car. The skid plate would do well enough for a trip to the chassis dyno, a day at the dragstrip, and one road trip to test gas mileage.
Then pull the LQ and get back to the stroker Windsor.

 

Thanks, my friend! "bird boy"..I'm beginning to like that
I've done the 302 Windsor, I'm hoping to do the 399 Windsor, But the 350 Chevy I did was a surprisingly easy fit. I have a build thread of it on one of the Mustang forums, I can PM you a link if you would like to see how the SBC fits. I saved the mounts from that thread, I still keep them in the trunk of that car, just in case.

 

I'd just run the truck water pump, a custom bracket for the alternator, and that's it. The car no longer has air conditioning, and I'm not prepared for the hassle of power steering. After all, assuming health, the LQ will get replaced by the Windsor, which I have the accessories and brackets for.
The engine bay is plenty long and wide for LQ pulleys. After all, these cars did come with straight 6 engines in some years.

 

Thank you kindly, I'm glad to read it.

 

Well sir, I vote for Combo 1. I want to see you get 30 mpg from a carbureted 305.
And "bird boy" seems to be parroting 90% of what I see on www.ls1tech.com, a bunch of idiots who think life is all about 500 rwhp on all motor.
LSx are efficiency V8s, not Ultimate-HP V8s. If you want that, go buy last year's discarded NASCAR blocks, cranks, heads, and pistons.
More HP per cube might be one small aspect of efficiency, but HP per liter is dumb because it doesn't account for the RPM or boost factors on which it relies so heavily. And we can't just pick any one RPM, say, 6500, at which to compare all the world's engines for HP/liter.
Sorry if that's too far off topic, it seemed relevant, but I tent to type as I follow a thought.
Anyway, the LQ4 build you propose is very different from what anyone else is doing to these modern V8s, and therein lies the appeal of your combo. None of us has any idea what it would be like to own, to live with. How can we, since if anyone ever tried it, they didn't report back, as you say?
All three combos seem to offer us info we don't currently have, and that makes them all worth trying.
Thank you for all the information you give us, and I apologize for jealous haters like "bird boy". He's just mad that he can't come up with something great on his own, he can only do what he sees on that other forum. I also want him to go away forever, since he can add nothing helpful. If he could, he would have.
This isn't about the car itself, either. Because it is similar enough for the results you get to apply to the rest of us.
Lastly, I'll pray for your cancer to go into remission.

 

You don't need to worry that you went too far off topic. Read my past posts, and see that I'm far more lenient about non-third-gen-related stuff than the moderators, though five7kid has been a true friend and an honorable gentleman in referring those people to PM me before he closes and locks their threads.
The only thing I'll never tolerate is anyone criticizing or contradicting me. They should politely say they disagree, and politely ask questions. If they have evidence that seems to prove me wrong, I do look at it, and I have typed "I stand corrected" more than a few times.
Your vote is on my tally sheet, same as everyone else's, except "bird boy"'s vote. Not because I'm angry at him, which I am, but because the combo he voted for wasn't one of the 3 I presented.
Oh, there is one other thing I don't tolerate. Other people presenting impossibilities as virtual gospel, or as outright fact. I do not let people be misinformed without me saying that it is misinformation.

 

Yes! They did, I had one... 1979 Mustang Ghia, with the straight 6. Talk about a turd! Ran forever tho, and got me to school rain, sleet or shine.

 

I'll have to go with five7 on this one as well, plus I'm curious to know how those heads will work out so I can have more options on heads for when I build my LS1 up.

 

That being the case, then this shouldn't start a fight. It's a simple yes-or-no question. The above is a double standard. You won't tolerate criticism, and yet you do often criticize virtually everything and everyone. If you really are all that you claim, and reading your posts suggests that you really are, then do you feel that your experience justifies your double standard?

 

I'm not backing up Atilla, I am on my own side... But I have pertinent information about this. My father in law is like that, short with you and quick to correct, VERY experienced looks VERY opinionated but with fact. I understand it by this: You know when you are somewhere outside your "world" or "circle" and you hear some numb nuts talk about how his car is this, or that? and its TOTAL BS! Or he knows someone or his "uncle" blah blah blah? You know its like NAILS ON A CHALKBOARD for me and I just grit my teeth like some toon! Scale that up, from years of experience, put yourself in the "numb nuts" situation... All I do now is shut up and learn... unless I know something to be fact, then I win one every now and then ... It's really that simple. Thats all I have to say about that...

 

he's bitching about low speed tq production blah blah blah....how much torque do you really need at 2k rpm's when you're trying to move a lightweight 2800 pound mustang?

a 4k rpm stall isnt perfectly streetable? LOL...whatever you say, expert!

Gee, when my converter locks up..its just like driving a stock vehicle! its just ALOT more fun having that 4k converter!

and to atilla, you get this twin chinese turbo 305 done{which you wont} and i will gladly race it with my single turbo formula.

 

Fair enough, and my answer is: YES!!!!!!!
Because my knowledge really does outweigh stupid societal conventions which most of us call "niceties". Who has time for that? You want the best results, that's what I give. You want coddling, go see your own loved ones. It's a cold world, with cold people. Everyone wanting personal glory without earning it. I have earned it, yet I no longer get it.

 

Man, you do seem to understand! When John Lingenfelter was still alive, how often do you think people walked into his shop with anything other than a student mentality?
It was the same for me until I retired. Not from age, I'm not that old.
None if these whiney babies like "bird boy" can understand what it's like to transition from that to endless onslaughts by brazen hussies who think that being a 35 year old hobbyist equals being a 35 year old famous professional.
Why these whiners have to come at me, provoke me, and draw out of me the behavior they turn around and bash, I honestly cannot understand. But tearing me down doesn't make them look any better, yet they're too outright stupid to understand what you and I are trying to tell them.

 

No, that post won't get you banned, and it shouldn't. And just how old do you think I am, anyway?
As for how much torque you need at 2000 rpm in a 3400 pound Mustang, well, Until you drive a 2900 pound '67 Camaro with a supercharged 786-cube big block, you can't understand. There's no such thing as too much torque. Anyone who says otherwise just hasn't learned how to make it fun. It ain't that hard.
I do assume you're some 25 year old kid. You type like it.
I won't race you, b!t(#e$ like you tend to show up with weapons hidden on their persons, and I have the scars to prove it. The last 4 are all still in prison. I can't speak for them, but I learned my lesson.
Come spring, whichever combo I go with, but those runs will be naturally aspirated.
And if it was up to me, I would ban you from TGO.
Wait, that's not very Christian of me, is it? Well, fine, an armchair warrior like you isn't worth it. This most recent post of yours further proves that you're too stupid to learn ANYthing from what several of us have trying to tell you, so from now on I'll just ignore you, and if anyone notices, I'll refer them to this.

 

The double standard does offend my sense of fairness, but I guess most of us are adults now. Life isn't fair. And far too many people are cold, but this smacks of a soapbox, and I wish everyone would stay off their soap boxes.
As for banning '89fbirdformula, I think he does deserve it for not staying out of your thread after you exercised your right to tell him to get out and stay out. I guess you're right about him lacking sense. I'll ignore him from now on, too.

 

Can we get back to topic now??? :P Discovery Channel is getting old, and its too hot to hit the garage (fkn TX heat sux!)

 

Nvrmind.

 

A "friendly" reminder to all that when you signed up to be a member of this Board, you agreed to keep your posts tech related, and to refrain from personal attacks. If some part of that slipped your mind, refresh your memory by reading the "Guidelines" post at the top of every forum on TGO.

Specifically:
"Under the Agree and Objectionable Message clauses, users are also prohibited from:

* Posting insulting words, phrases, comments, or anything off-topic."

 

I'd like to see this done, but do it on a HSR intake with TPI electronics. Since alot of thirdgen cars are TPI based, keeping it EFI would be nice. May not be as cheap or as easy as a carb but I think its more applicable to these cars and its a realistic combo. Something I'd try myself.

With the EFI tune it up for gas mileage and see what it will do on the highway, day to day, and then how much power it cam make. I know carb cars can make just as good mileage with a properly designed carb, or so carb experts say, but EFI is what these cars are about.

ANy reason for the 4.10's? I think that would be abit much for that car, being a street strip setup. 4.10's at the track probably would match the power band on that motor which is better for more ET, but i fear its abit much for mileage even with overdrive. Maybe 3.42-3.73 be a better fit? Just my opinion.

 

Atilla, can you please tell us some more about the bottom end of the engines in question? Is the LQ getting a rebuild? What type of rods, crank etc? The 305 as you know is going to be a screamer, what are your plans for making sure it doesnt come unglued?? Any special treatment?

 

I've questioned him before on some of the builds and especially his torque converter stall advice, but the difference between you and I, is that we kept it civilized. I was probing not calling him out demanding he change things. I opened up questions for debate and was curious to learn where he was coming from.
I come from more of a street race/aggressive street strip car background. I have that mentality so I think a 4000 stall is streetable. Just different mindsets. I'm not yet looking for a refined street car with low rpm torque like alot of the builds Atilla has spec'd out here, but I certainly do not want to down play those builds just because I think a different way.
My post above was just a suggestion. He asked for which and why. He posted two options for that build in #2. I said HSR and why