1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

Go Back  Third Generation F-Body Message Boards > Tech Boards > Engine Swap
Reload this Page >

1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Engine Swap Everything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.

1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Old 09-09-2012, 03:45 AM
  #1  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Whelp, I've finally found some time and slowly accumulated money to start doing this (damn college budget).

I'm dropping a Pontiac 400 into my little 'bird. My goal is to make this thing look like it rolled off the assembly line with this monster in there. I want this car to bring an 80s "modernized" look to the old 60s Firebird 400, and to kinda reach back to the merging and downfall of Pontiac.

I want to hear everyone's thoughts and maybe suggestions to help make this car fit this idea and work well and safely.

Engine:
1975 Block
#62 Heads (2.11 in 1.77 ex; 72 CC chambers)
.060 over for rebuild

Last edited by firechicken1992; 01-17-2019 at 03:15 PM. Reason: 17 and dumb
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-09-2012, 03:47 AM
  #2  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Well here's the first pic I took of this, test fitting and marking my spare block
Attached Thumbnails 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept-090712200016.jpg  
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-09-2012, 03:49 AM
  #3  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

...and the real one, hopefully my friend and I can fit the tranny in either tomorrow or Monday.
Attached Thumbnails 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept-090812164805_01.jpg  
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-09-2012, 07:34 AM
  #4  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
 
86WS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Great Smoky Mountains, Bryson City North Carolina
Posts: 1,235
Car: 86WS6 30K and 82WS7 24K
Engine: 86:305 TPI, 82: 305 LG4
Transmission: 86:700R4, 82: T200C
Axle/Gears: 86:3:27 9 bolt, 82: 3:23 10 bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Neat Idea! It looks like a tight fit. How does the weight of that big block Pontiac engine compare with a small block Chevy? I was thinking about doing something similar a few years back with a 1966 421 engine. My parents bought a Bonnieville coupe new in 66 with a 421 and three two barrels. It also had a Turbo 400 trans. Awsome car, however we lived on the beach in Florida, and the body rotted badly. When we moved back to GA in 73 the car still ran but was getting rough, and a few years later it was stored in a haybarn as a future project car. if I remember correctly, a bigblock Pontiac has some clearence issues in a Thirdgen, such as the oil filter and fitment of the exhaust manifolds. It will be cool to watch your project come together. Your car ought to have some awesome power as those old Poncho's are serious torque monsters.
86WS6 is offline  
Old 09-09-2012, 11:48 AM
  #5  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

oh yeah im very excited. the weight is massive, and its sitting on V6 springs right now . But im going to order stiffer springs. As for clearance issues, im having more of a problem with the alternator sitting too high, i gotta relocate it to the other side, but i wanna save room for the A/C compressor too lol. Manifolds will be tight, but i dont think will be an issue, neither is the oil filter....but i may go remote for that just for ease of maintenance. but all in all it seems to fit well

Hopefully the tranny will go in today
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-09-2012, 12:40 PM
  #6  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (5)
 
KrisW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeland, FLA
Posts: 2,765
Car: 88 V6 'bird/88 IROC/85 T/A
Engine: Buick 6 swap coming/TPI sbc x2
Transmission: V8 T-5/700R4 x2
Axle/Gears: 3.42 open/3.73 posi/ 3.27 9 bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

You need to buy reproduction Ram Air manifolds. The cheapest ones are on eBay.

If you search the forums and the internet you'll see that GM put a 455 SD in an 82 Trans Am as a concept. It fit in there okay, if not a bit snug. It even had the AC and cruise hooked up. Search for that one to see where they put all the accessories to fit under the hood.

The 3rd gen Firebird was actually designed to hold the short deck 301 Pontiac with turbo from the 80-81 Trans Am. GM killed the engine program so they just ran Chevy small blocks.

Good luck!
KrisW is offline  
Old 09-11-2012, 01:01 PM
  #7  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

UPDATE: Oil filter is catching on the A-Arm mount, gonna have to go to a remote setup.

As soon as I get the correct tranny cross member, im going to start throwing this together, although i may need to go with a the short tailshaft housing to make room for the torque arm bracket a friend is going to make for me (welding is bad ju-ju for me).

All in all this is going fairly smoothly, the thought of keeping this engine cool is scareing me tho.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-11-2012, 01:12 PM
  #8  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (5)
 
KrisW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeland, FLA
Posts: 2,765
Car: 88 V6 'bird/88 IROC/85 T/A
Engine: Buick 6 swap coming/TPI sbc x2
Transmission: V8 T-5/700R4 x2
Axle/Gears: 3.42 open/3.73 posi/ 3.27 9 bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Please post pictures of the oil filter interference. You may be able to go with a smaller filter to avoid the interference.

I use the skinny AC Delco PF61 on my Buick and Olds engines that have clearance problems. Maybe it will work for you too?
KrisW is offline  
Old 09-11-2012, 01:15 PM
  #9  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (5)
 
KrisW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeland, FLA
Posts: 2,765
Car: 88 V6 'bird/88 IROC/85 T/A
Engine: Buick 6 swap coming/TPI sbc x2
Transmission: V8 T-5/700R4 x2
Axle/Gears: 3.42 open/3.73 posi/ 3.27 9 bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

PF 46 is the short version of that PF 61 oil filter. I forgot that!
KrisW is offline  
Old 09-11-2012, 03:12 PM
  #10  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Ill look into that, it seems like i need another 1.5 to 2 more inches, i may go for a remote set up just for the sake of ease of maintenance.

As for that 455 Concept, i couldnt find anything on it anywhere
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-13-2012, 12:37 PM
  #11  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Got the tranny in and going to order a UMI crossmember with body mounted torque arm (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UPI-2232-R/) after i get my next paycheck.

Gonna go grab a drive line and dual electric fan setup from a salvage yard here soon as well, ill have more pictures after i get this cross-member installed.

Last edited by firechicken1992; 09-13-2012 at 12:45 PM.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:11 AM
  #12  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Ran into a bit of a snag. V8 sits too high. Been comparing my set up to my friends '89 Iroc, my engine sits about 3-4 inches too high. I'm going to do all the math for this and have some new mounts made at a fabrication shop. It'll probably set the mounts very high on the cradle, but it should set the oil pan and whole engine very low into the compartment. I want the oil pan to sit about 1/2 inch above the cradle.

Last edited by firechicken1992; 09-28-2012 at 10:46 AM.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:21 AM
  #13  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (5)
 
KrisW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeland, FLA
Posts: 2,765
Car: 88 V6 'bird/88 IROC/85 T/A
Engine: Buick 6 swap coming/TPI sbc x2
Transmission: V8 T-5/700R4 x2
Axle/Gears: 3.42 open/3.73 posi/ 3.27 9 bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

It might be helpful to measure the height at the center line of the crank (the middle of the harmonic balancer center bolt) as compared to your buddy's IROC if it has good motor mounts.

Its a quick measure; from the ground to the center of the bolt, then from the ground to the center of the crossmember, then the difference between the two. The reason I do this on non standard engine swaps is for drive-line angle and transmission mount longevity. I don't like that back mount being in a bind when you are pushing the front of the engine up. You almost never have a problem with a wrong engine being too low in the cradle.

Its just a thought; I'll go measure my IROC and see what I get.
KrisW is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:44 AM
  #14  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

i was thinking that too, maybe i could space the trans cross member with shims a little, because the torque arm mount on it is adjustable.

Ive just spent the last 30 mins searching other poncho swaps on here, and i think ive found some mounts that will help with this (or atleast have some reproductions made) http://www.pontiacgroup.com/enginepa...part/10776.htm
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:38 AM
  #15  
Supreme Member
 
85_ZED28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: St Catharines, ON
Posts: 2,412
Car: '85 Z28
Engine: 350
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.23
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Very cool project!
85_ZED28 is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 12:05 PM
  #16  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (5)
 
KrisW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeland, FLA
Posts: 2,765
Car: 88 V6 'bird/88 IROC/85 T/A
Engine: Buick 6 swap coming/TPI sbc x2
Transmission: V8 T-5/700R4 x2
Axle/Gears: 3.42 open/3.73 posi/ 3.27 9 bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

The measurement on my IROC is from center of the VIN F balancer bolt to the "seam" that goes along the front of the crossmember.

My measurement is 6 3/4" and my motor mounts are in fair condition. I think if you used 70's or 2nd gen Firebird mounts from a real Pontiac V8 that would get you close to the right height. The lower rubbers for the Pontiac V8 are SIMILAR to the chevy mounts but they are NOT the same.

Good luck and let us know what happens!
KrisW is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 12:08 PM
  #17  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (5)
 
KrisW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeland, FLA
Posts: 2,765
Car: 88 V6 'bird/88 IROC/85 T/A
Engine: Buick 6 swap coming/TPI sbc x2
Transmission: V8 T-5/700R4 x2
Axle/Gears: 3.42 open/3.73 posi/ 3.27 9 bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

I would definitely give those guys a call and see if they still have or make those mounts. They are listed as Indian Adventures pieces, but I think that company went bust under the economy of the last 6 years...
KrisW is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 01:41 PM
  #18  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (7)
 
TTOP350's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: central Il USA
Posts: 9,972
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

These guys maybe able to help ya.. You may need adapters and new mounts from a 75-81 Firebird, they use a front subframe thats almost the same as far as Aarms and motor placement go..
http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/products/...otorMounts.htm
http://www.bopengineering.com/

Last edited by TTOP350; 09-28-2012 at 01:45 PM.
TTOP350 is offline  
Old 09-29-2012, 03:50 AM
  #19  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by KrisW View Post
I would definitely give those guys a call and see if they still have or make those mounts. They are listed as Indian Adventures pieces, but I think that company went bust under the economy of the last 6 years...
Yeah I'm 99% sure they did, but the mounts look simple enough, I could get a fab. shop to make some for me, maybe even a little more reinforced (im paranoid about crap breaking and killing me)

Last edited by firechicken1992; 11-30-2012 at 10:31 AM.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-29-2012, 02:16 PM
  #20  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 1,048
Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 3.1L +bolt ons
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Moser forged, 3.73, SLP posi
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

I like this idea. I've wondered what it would've been like had the BOP engines made it into the '80s - '90s.
If you want an '80s factory look, maybe put a crossfire manifold on top?
jensen73110 is offline  
Old 09-29-2012, 03:39 PM
  #21  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by jensen73110 View Post
I like this idea. I've wondered what it would've been like had the BOP engines made it into the '80s - '90s.
If you want an '80s factory look, maybe put a crossfire manifold on top?
Pontiac motors are completely different than Chevy motors, nothing is the same between them lol. although i do want to go with some sort of TPI system in the future (if possible) because i want to make this look like it came outta the factory with this.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-29-2012, 04:25 PM
  #22  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (5)
 
KrisW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeland, FLA
Posts: 2,765
Car: 88 V6 'bird/88 IROC/85 T/A
Engine: Buick 6 swap coming/TPI sbc x2
Transmission: V8 T-5/700R4 x2
Axle/Gears: 3.42 open/3.73 posi/ 3.27 9 bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

The true Pontiac mill starting in 82 would have been a 301, but aside from that, it would have either been computer quadrajet 4 barrell or turbo.

So, don't forget the turbo if you are trying to make it look right. Pontiac fully intended to run turbo V8 engines in the 3rd gen until GM corporate killed their engine program. They had been loosely mirroring Buick's turbo V6 program with their 301 and were just working the bugs out when they got canned.

You can weld injector bungs to an aluminum intake and hook a throttle body to where the carburetor bolts on, but to make a TPI type intake I'm not sure what you would do.
KrisW is offline  
Old 09-30-2012, 12:24 AM
  #23  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

well mines a '92, so carb would look outa place if period correctness was applicable (but lets not get into all those theroies, thats way too out their for where im at on this project xDDD

Since Im going with the big CI ill keep it NA, i actually have a personal preference for NA cars, if i was running the short deck 301 id do turbo, but that aint happening xDD


heres a pic of my car btw:

just imagine it with a body colored Z28 Spoiler
Attached Thumbnails 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept-63297_127350820648826_856581_n.jpg  

Last edited by firechicken1992; 09-30-2012 at 12:43 AM.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:55 AM
  #24  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (5)
 
KrisW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeland, FLA
Posts: 2,765
Car: 88 V6 'bird/88 IROC/85 T/A
Engine: Buick 6 swap coming/TPI sbc x2
Transmission: V8 T-5/700R4 x2
Axle/Gears: 3.42 open/3.73 posi/ 3.27 9 bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

The carb wouldn't look so out of place with the proper TBI style air cleaner and what not. Remember the Olds 307 ran a carb in 1990. Reason being, the Olds V8 cylinder heads had a better combustion pattern than Chevy did and it could easily pass emissions with the Quadrajet. The Chevy couldn't get it done. It is most likely that Pontiac would have used similar designs to Buick and Olds to get their heads optimized for fuel injection and turbocharging as well.

What I'm saying is that the underhood stuff, the way its arranged, will make the look to see if it looks "correct."

The picture below is from a guy who put a Buick 455 under the hood of his 87 Trans Am. The only thing that remotely looks "wrong" is the old style AC compressor.
Attached Thumbnails 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept-87eng-218-90.jpg  
KrisW is offline  
Old 09-30-2012, 06:56 PM
  #25  
Member
 
79tagio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartford CT
Posts: 101
Car: 1985 Trans Am!
Engine: 355 Chevy Crate Motor
Transmission: Non WC-T5. (gonna blow soon)
Axle/Gears: 3.27s
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

any new info ?
79tagio is offline  
Old 10-01-2012, 09:57 AM
  #26  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

not yet, VERY tied up with school and family issues, Old man winter is on his way as well so i may need to break out the tarp here soon (im working on my driveway)
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-01-2012, 11:36 PM
  #27  
Member
 
79tagio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartford CT
Posts: 101
Car: 1985 Trans Am!
Engine: 355 Chevy Crate Motor
Transmission: Non WC-T5. (gonna blow soon)
Axle/Gears: 3.27s
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Feel your pain, all i have is a little harbor freight car port i keep mine in, does the job better than a cover haha, same here school sucks! Im trying to find time to work on my pos but still cant find a goo time :/
79tagio is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:33 PM
  #28  
Supreme Member
 
1gary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,529
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

The only thing I remember about the Ponco engines was the weak link was the valve train and primarily the rocker arm design. I would have thought someone came up with a expensive solution to that.

This is a all weather solution:

Name:  shop042.jpg
Views: 582
Size:  116.8 KB

Last edited by 1gary; 10-02-2012 at 12:36 PM.
1gary is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:28 PM
  #29  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (7)
 
TTOP350's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: central Il USA
Posts: 9,972
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by 1gary View Post
The only thing I remember about the Ponco engines was the weak link was the valve train and primarily the rocker arm design. I would have thought someone came up with a expensive solution to that.
You do realize that the Pontiac rocker arm idea was designed in a basement by a Pontiac engineer and the idea was stolen by Chevy to use on SBC an BBCs??

The weak point in the pontiac was/is the stock cast rods and pistons and the pontiac engeneers knew it but the higherups wouldnt let them build a better rod or piston. The forged SD parts were better but not enuff.

Last edited by TTOP350; 10-02-2012 at 03:21 PM.
TTOP350 is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 03:11 PM
  #30  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by 1gary View Post
The only thing I remember about the Ponco engines was the weak link was the valve train and primarily the rocker arm design. I would have thought someone came up with a expensive solution to that.

This is a all weather solution:

i wish i had the money for that
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:54 PM
  #31  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Well I just ordered my torque arm relocation crossmember from UMI....estimated arival time is Nov. 8th so i guess im grinding to a stand still until the spring. Hopefully we'll have a super mild winter like the last (raining on Dec. 28) but Montana isn't known for very warm weather. T.T
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:59 PM
  #32  
Supreme Member
 
1gary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,529
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by TTOP350 View Post
You do realize that the Pontiac rocker arm idea was designed in a basement by a Pontiac engineer and the idea was stolen by Chevy to use on SBC an BBCs??

The weak point in the pontiac was/is the stock cast rods and pistons and the pontiac engeneers knew it but the higherups wouldnt let them build a better rod or piston. The forged SD parts were better but not enuff.
Sorry for the off topic question. Where the 389 tri-power engines also cast??. I would have thought those where forged.

Man I'm I ever behind on some of the B-P-O's stuff.........
1gary is offline  
Old 11-20-2012, 06:19 PM
  #33  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Ok. I have absolutely been dieng to post (I think im addicted to this site). I've gotten my torque arm relocation crossmember from UMI today, and I have to say: WOW . The welds are seamless and the color is flawless. Thanks guys at UMI!!

I'll get pictures of it installed later this week. After I budget off some money for books for my next semester of college I'll get a new carb. and driveline made.
Attached Thumbnails 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept-112012154150_01.jpg  

Last edited by firechicken1992; 11-20-2012 at 06:24 PM.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 11-21-2012, 09:33 AM
  #34  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 6,476
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Vortec headed 355, xe262
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt 3.70
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by firechicken1992 View Post
well mines a '92, so carb would look outa place if period correctness was applicable (but lets not get into all those theroies, thats way too out their for where im at on this project xDDD

Since Im going with the big CI ill keep it NA, i actually have a personal preference for NA cars, if i was running the short deck 301 id do turbo, but that aint happening xDD


heres a pic of my car btw:

just imagine it with a body colored Z28 Spoiler
Body colored Z28 spoiler? I assume you mean the 91-92 high rise spoiler since the 3 piece ones wont fit your taillights.

Well, bad news, the Pontiacs actually have a wider rear decklid than the Camaros.



You may decide that doesn't matter, but it really doesnt look very good. It definitely wouldnt have come stock like that. Now if you were to cut it and widen it... it'd probably be pretty cool looking.
InfernalVortex is offline  
Old 11-21-2012, 10:10 AM
  #35  
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 504
Car: '92 Firebird
Engine: Poncho 455
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: 12bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

where do i start...

your oil filter adaptor off a late 60s gto is what you need. it will fit as long as you put a tubular k-member in it.

motor mounts are stupid simple, i could get detailed pictures and measurements of mine if you need them.

exhaust, IA is no longer. i assume someone would know where to contact for their old products. i am running their d-port headers, and fit great, aslong as you use a tubular k-member.

my 455; im about 3 hours away from getting it started, just trying to figure out where to lay all the wires the way i like it.
Name:  IMAG1020.jpg
Views: 1059
Size:  110.2 KB

my thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/memb...5-im-back.html
daturbosix is offline  
Old 11-21-2012, 05:04 PM
  #36  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by daturbosix View Post
where do i start...

your oil filter adaptor off a late 60s gto is what you need. it will fit as long as you put a tubular k-member in it.

motor mounts are stupid simple, i could get detailed pictures and measurements of mine if you need them.

exhaust, IA is no longer. i assume someone would know where to contact for their old products. i am running their d-port headers, and fit great, aslong as you use a tubular k-member.

my 455; im about 3 hours away from getting it started, just trying to figure out where to lay all the wires the way i like it.


my thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/memb...5-im-back.html
that is freakin beautiful, ill check out your thread
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 11-21-2012, 05:08 PM
  #37  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by InfernalVortex View Post
Body colored Z28 spoiler? I assume you mean the 91-92 high rise spoiler since the 3 piece ones wont fit your taillights.

Well, bad news, the Pontiacs actually have a wider rear decklid than the Camaros.



You may decide that doesn't matter, but it really doesnt look very good. It definitely wouldnt have come stock like that. Now if you were to cut it and widen it... it'd probably be pretty cool looking.
i actually like that look lol I think it fits with the inward angles of the C pillars. I already have mine on, that pic is just old lol
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 11-22-2012, 01:53 AM
  #38  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 6,476
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Vortec headed 355, xe262
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt 3.70
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

I can see how it fits well the with the B-pillars... good point.

Still not really sold on it, but it's not bad...
InfernalVortex is offline  
Old 11-22-2012, 03:05 PM
  #39  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

I'm digging the exhuast too......i think i just found how i want to do mine xD
Infernal, is this your car?
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 11-23-2012, 03:56 AM
  #40  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 6,476
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Vortec headed 355, xe262
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt 3.70
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by firechicken1992 View Post
I'm digging the exhuast too......i think i just found how i want to do mine xD
Infernal, is this your car?
No I stole the picture from someone else. Since I originally posted it as a "bad" example, I didn't feel like providing names was a good idea.
InfernalVortex is offline  
Old 11-29-2012, 03:56 PM
  #41  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Alright, since the stock Pontiac mounts won't work without more modification than I want to do, I took some measurements of the block and factory 3rd gen V8 mounts. I'm gonna design up some mounts and have them made at a shop around here. Here's just the measurements I got if anyone else is interested in this swap.
Attached Thumbnails 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept-pontiac-thridgen-measurements.png  
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 12-02-2012, 05:09 AM
  #42  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

do you guys think a CNC machined emblem like this would look good on the fenders?



firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 12-02-2012, 06:55 AM
  #43  
Junior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
3genpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Poland (Europa)
Posts: 65
Car: Trans Am
Engine: 383 Accel ProRam single plain EFI
Transmission: t-56 Spec #3
Axle/Gears: 4 gen 3.73:1
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

i went other way...







it is just ploter cut like the original, cost few bucks...
3genpio is offline  
Old 12-02-2012, 10:45 PM
  #44  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

ive thought that too, i just think some cnc emblems will make it stand out a lil more. that still looks freakin great and professionally done
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:24 AM
  #45  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Well it's been forever since I've said anything on this, but summer is quickly approching and i'll bring this thread back to life.

Latey been stocking up on parts.

I just recieved my Formula rims from the user gtxtra on here, thanks for those!
Gonna fire up my 400 for the first time within the next week or two hopefully, I'll post a vid of that.

Gonna rebuild that TH400 after I get all my money prioritized for everything else. Gonna build custom steel lines up to the front for a cooler.

After all that is running it'll be time to hunt for a driveline.


I'll draw up a wiring diagram for all this and post it on here at some point.

Just wondering, how popular is this swap? As I learn more at school I've been toying with the idea of making "kits" for this, such as mounts, wiring harnesses and lines and such.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 03-10-2013, 10:10 PM
  #46  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Well spent a good 45 mins to an hour on this today, i LOVE how simplistic these cars are. This isnt going to be the typical thirdgen wiring job, Im chopping out all the unused options connectors and cleaning up the cluster of wires. While i do this im going to clean all the dust and cigarette ash from the PO and run and extra set of wires to the doors to run a 4x6 speaker in both doors .
Attached Thumbnails 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept-0310131739.jpg  
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 03-10-2013, 10:15 PM
  #47  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Oh yeah, what is this lil guy? It says "PassKey". Is this the VAT system?
Attached Thumbnails 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept-0310131723.jpg  
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 03-10-2013, 11:06 PM
  #48  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (5)
 
KrisW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeland, FLA
Posts: 2,765
Car: 88 V6 'bird/88 IROC/85 T/A
Engine: Buick 6 swap coming/TPI sbc x2
Transmission: V8 T-5/700R4 x2
Axle/Gears: 3.42 open/3.73 posi/ 3.27 9 bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

I think its part of the signal generator stuff for the vats key, yes. GM gave it several names, and passkey was one of them.

If you're not using the original ECM in the car, then it doesn't matter. Just make sure to follow your starter wires all the way back to your ignition switch and make sure that its not hooked to that module anywhere. VATS turned off the fuel I know, but not sure about that start wire.
KrisW is offline  
Old 03-10-2013, 11:47 PM
  #49  
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 504
Car: '92 Firebird
Engine: Poncho 455
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: 12bolt
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

on my 92, there was a relay i had to provide a ground to.

i couldnt tell you how or what i did(i did it 5 years ago), but maybe someone here can provide the correct info.
daturbosix is offline  
Old 03-11-2013, 12:33 AM
  #50  
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Veaceonee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 807
Car: 88 GTA Notchback
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: don't know
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Oh yeah, what is this lil guy? It says "PassKey". Is this the VAT system?
I think its a box that ***** crimped wires.
Veaceonee is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept


Advertising
Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory

Contact Us Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: