1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept - Page 3 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

Go Back  Third Generation F-Body Message Boards > Tech Boards > Engine Swap
Reload this Page >

1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Engine Swap Everything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.

1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Old 11-23-2014, 10:32 AM
  #101  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

I've been planning out this swap for some time myself. On the engine mount issue, there is a sure fire way to make sure they are bolted in a the right place on the subframe. All one needs to do is cut out the template from any 78-87 G body frame. I was fortunate enough to have a 78 Pontiac Grand Prix equipped with a 301 Pontiac V8 at my disposal. All the necessary brackets and mounts were already there for the taking. As has been discussed here before, the Pontiac V8 clamshell mounts differ from the SBC mounts. The Pontiac mount is longer, narrower and more shallow than the SBC mount. The mounting holes on the frame as a result are slightly different. The G body frames were drilled for many different application due to the engine sharing that was going on within the divisions of GM at the time. The F body was drilled for only two mounting positions. Using the SBC holes as a starting point, once you obtain the template from the donor car, lay the template over the subframe and modify your holes to accept the Pontiac V8 mount. This will ensure the engine sits at the right location and that the engine geometry is correct
Wonderbird 84 is offline  
Old 12-03-2014, 12:36 PM
  #102  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by Wonderbird 84 View Post
I've been planning out this swap for some time myself. On the engine mount issue, there is a sure fire way to make sure they are bolted in a the right place on the subframe. All one needs to do is cut out the template from any 78-87 G body frame. I was fortunate enough to have a 78 Pontiac Grand Prix equipped with a 301 Pontiac V8 at my disposal. All the necessary brackets and mounts were already there for the taking. As has been discussed here before, the Pontiac V8 clamshell mounts differ from the SBC mounts. The Pontiac mount is longer, narrower and more shallow than the SBC mount. The mounting holes on the frame as a result are slightly different. The G body frames were drilled for many different application due to the engine sharing that was going on within the divisions of GM at the time. The F body was drilled for only two mounting positions. Using the SBC holes as a starting point, once you obtain the template from the donor car, lay the template over the subframe and modify your holes to accept the Pontiac V8 mount. This will ensure the engine sits at the right location and that the engine geometry is correct
Unless you plan on running some conventional heads and custom intake, you're going to be hard pressed to make power out of that 301. And 2nd gen engine mount brackets fit over the mounts perfect, you just have to relocate the mounts slightly.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 12-07-2014, 11:39 PM
  #103  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

I am going to use a 1975 vintage 400, not the 301. Since the 301 uses the same basic geometry as the 400 including mount bosses, it will be a natural fit. The Pontiac clamshell mounts will allow for another half inch of air cleaner to hood clearance. By using the SBC mount it puts the engine slightly forward of where it should be had Pontiac used their own V8. See the below pictures. The first one is the template I cut out of the G body. I laid this on the F body subframe and used the SBC bolt holes to hold the template in place. I used a white spray bomb to mark the holes on the subframe. Note the template shows where the SBC bolt holes go after marking the subframe. The template can be used to mark both sides of the subframe.
Attached Thumbnails 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept-fullsizerender-1-.jpg   1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept-fullsizerender.jpg  
Wonderbird 84 is offline  
Old 02-03-2015, 05:49 PM
  #104  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

@Wonderbird 84: I'd be careful with the '75 blocks. They have thinner castings. They're good for their purpose, but as for building a power machine you'll want a different year. My block is a '75 but heads and rotating assembly are from a '69, and I'm going for more of a show car than a rocket ship.

As for progress on this thread, I am currently buying a house, and plan on having this beast breathing this summer, but it is put on the back burner for the next couple months. Don't get me wrong tho, this won't be forgotten, it'll be 3-4 months max before I make some progress again.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 02-04-2015, 12:04 AM
  #105  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by firechicken1992 View Post
@Wonderbird 84: I'd be careful with the '75 blocks. They have thinner castings. They're good for their purpose, but as for building a power machine you'll want a different year. My block is a '75 but heads and rotating assembly are from a '69, and I'm going for more of a show car than a rocket ship.

As for progress on this thread, I am currently buying a house, and plan on having this beast breathing this summer, but it is put on the back burner for the next couple months. Don't get me wrong tho, this won't be forgotten, it'll be 3-4 months max before I make some progress again.
My engine will be a fairly mild build. I'm using 6X-8 heads and a Q-jet with no more than a RA-III spec cam. I want a fun driver, not a full tilt race car. Part of my goal is to make it look like the engine belonged in this car from day one. I saved all of the G-body spec brackets, A/C components and wiring harness to help facilitate this.
Wonderbird 84 is offline  
Old 08-02-2015, 02:44 AM
  #106  
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

those #62 heads on a 455 will be 11.1 cr. Nice project, thats how 'birds are supposed to be!
L75RULESALL is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 10:44 AM
  #107  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Well It seems about time to start posting on this thread again. Have had a very busy year between buying my first house and losing my mother, and the Firebird moved to the back burner for a while. After moving into my home and getting my Bird up to my house, it's a new chapter for the thread here.

The Bird is home.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 11:01 AM
  #108  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

With this project sitting for so long, I had some rust in the tank. And my fuel tank was in a pretty sad state to begin with. So I ditched the factory tank and bought a 4th Gen tank from a 2000 Camaro 3.8 Liter. As of right now, I'm running a carburetor, so the 50-60 psi the 4th Gen pump would put out would be wayyyy too much. AND the fuel level sensor on the 4th gens read 40-250 ohms (I know this has been covered numerous times) when our 3rd gen gauges read 0-90 ohms. So I had to "engineer" my fuel pump together. I started with taking the whole pump apart.



Disassembled GM fuel pump module.

Last edited by firechicken1992; 10-24-2015 at 02:14 PM.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 11:32 AM
  #109  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

To start with the actual pump portion, I bought a TBI 3rd Gen pump (it's specs said it's static pressure was like 13 PSI).

TBI pump fits perfect in the 4th Gen's rubber insulator.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 12:09 PM
  #110  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

At this point, you may notice the 4th Gen pump has two lines coming out of it. One goes to the top of the module to feed to the motor. The other routes to the bottom of the module. This keeps the "pocket" full of fuel to prevent starvation. Well the lumbering 3rd Gen pump has only one output. This is where I had to get a 'lil creative.

I used a vacuum tee: 3/8x3/16x3/8 part number 717663 from O'Reillys to create the second feed for the pump module.




The part that connects to the bottom of the module needs a male connection, so I cut a portion of the original line to secure to the 3/16 hose.




The 3/16 hose going to the bottom of the module. With the pressure being so minor, I felt comfortable securing it with a good zip tie.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 12:16 PM
  #111  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Next I installed the pump into the top portion of the housing. Pretty straight forward, and fits perfect.



I put a 3rd Gen strainer on the bottom of the TBI pump.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 12:20 PM
  #112  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Now, mating the two together is perhaps the easiest part.

I had to trim and position the hose clamps in a way to make sure they wouldn't contact the wires when installed. Don't want them rubbing through the insulation.




Connected the 3/16 hose the the tee.




A new strainer for the 4th Gen module.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 12:39 PM
  #113  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Now that I got my fuel pump ready to go, it's a necessity to know how much fuel I have while powering my gas hog carburetor and gas hog V8.

I bought a fuel level sensor from Ebay that reads the correct range. Its made by Herko. Part Number:GFC31.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 01:11 PM
  #114  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

The 4th Gen pumps have two wires for the level sensor, a hi and lo signal. The 3rd Gens, of course, have one wire. This is an easy fix.

A quick 3rd Gen fuel pump and level sensor diagram. Note how the wire leaving the level sensor splices to the same ground wire as the pump. This then grounds out under the center console.




One of these tools is really handy to have to remove terminals from connectors. You may be able to achieve the same results with a micro screwdriver or small paper clip.




I simply removed the wire I wasn't going to use.




What I did with the wire leaving the level sensor, was combine it into the same terminal as the motor's ground wire. On the left is the motor's power wire. Not shown is the pink/purple level sensor input wire.




I bought the new terminals from NAPA. Part number: 725157.


firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 01:24 PM
  #115  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

At this point, I'm glad I still had my 3rd Gen pump, as the connector to the actual pump is different on the 4th Gens. I used two more of those terminals from NAPA and recycled my connector from the original 3rd Gen pump

firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 02:16 PM
  #116  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Fired the motor up. Im able to regulate it down to a nice 8-9 PSI and with 5 gallons of premium in the tank, my gauge reads spot on at a touch over 1/4 tank.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 04-18-2016, 02:12 PM
  #117  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 10
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by firechicken1992 View Post
Fired the motor up. Im able to regulate it down to a nice 8-9 PSI and with 5 gallons of premium in the tank, my gauge reads spot on at a touch over 1/4 tank.
Any more progress????
Savage Muffin is offline  
Old 04-19-2016, 01:18 PM
  #118  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Not recently unfortunately. Been tight on finances around my house and life has been kicking me in the rear. Hopefully as we pull out of spring I can get some more work done on it. Nearly there.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 04-19-2016, 01:46 PM
  #119  
Moderator
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,635
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Are you at all concerned about how that plastic T will survive in gasoline?
AmorgetRS is offline  
Old 04-19-2016, 02:46 PM
  #120  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Originally Posted by AmorgetRS View Post
Are you at all concerned about how that plastic T will survive in gasoline?
I am very much concerned hahahaha. Im hoping this will last for just the summer. I need to throw a driveline under it and a shifter and I should be good to roll, and I want to convert to EFI so I'll be able to use the higher pressure pump in the future with the 4th Gen tank. I'm hoping since it was rated for vapor it'll survive.....but I know liquid gas is a different animal.....
firechicken1992 is offline  
Old 10-03-2018, 07:56 AM
  #121  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 108
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

HI great thread eny updates ?
senior bear is offline  
Old 01-17-2019, 12:10 PM
  #122  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 173
Car: 92 Firebird--02 Grand Prix GTP 2Dr
Engine: Poncho 400--3.8 Supercharged
Transmission: T56 6 Speed--4T65EHD
Axle/Gears: Open 10 bolt 3.42--Internal 2.93
Re: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept

Nothing as of late. Been buried with life and house work.
Hoping to revive this thread this spring. When I started this project I cut a lot of corners. I've been going through the car and fixing anything janky I had previously done. Been accumulating parts to continue this project when I can.
firechicken1992 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
IROCZDAVE (88-L98)
Interior Parts for Sale
4
10-06-2016 10:08 AM
xkingcodex
Engine Swap
13
03-10-2016 11:33 PM
Vintageracer
Camaros for Sale
8
10-21-2015 11:26 PM
the_nikfive
DIY PROM
2
08-11-2015 03:46 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: 1992 "Firebird 400" swap and concept


Advertising
Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory

Contact Us Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: