350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
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From: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Car: '87 IROCZ-28
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: LSD
350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
Hi,
I have a 305 IROCZ-28 with a blown motor, i bought another 305 engine to swap in but on stripping it to pop new shells and rings in, i found pitting in one of the bores, it's not economically viable to rebore a 305 over here so i am thinking of cutting my losses and going 350..
I have a 1987 car with center bolt heads and serp , I am concerned about getting a suitable 350 donor, as most are pre 87 and donor engines are rare over here..
I understand the TPI stuff is head specific so the blocks are interchangable, is this true?
i want to keep the TPI on a 350 i understand i will need new injectors knock sensor and ESC and PROM..
My question is: Will i be able to use my 87 IROC 305 tpi heads on the 350? I understand from searching on here that the bolt angles are different on the tpi base, can these just be redrilled? What's involved, or do would it be best to find some 350 heads, if so which ones??
I have one tpi cam in one unit, and allegedly a 305 vortec in the other which would be best, I also have a set of roller rockers, which set up is best? Are they interchangeable between the 305 and 350.
I'm on a serious budget here and cant buy any big money items, I'm a skilled engine builder and just want to get the best bang for my buck, over here in the UK SBC knowledge is thin on the ground so i'm really hoping you guys can help...
Thanks
I have a 305 IROCZ-28 with a blown motor, i bought another 305 engine to swap in but on stripping it to pop new shells and rings in, i found pitting in one of the bores, it's not economically viable to rebore a 305 over here so i am thinking of cutting my losses and going 350..
I have a 1987 car with center bolt heads and serp , I am concerned about getting a suitable 350 donor, as most are pre 87 and donor engines are rare over here..
I understand the TPI stuff is head specific so the blocks are interchangable, is this true?
i want to keep the TPI on a 350 i understand i will need new injectors knock sensor and ESC and PROM..
My question is: Will i be able to use my 87 IROC 305 tpi heads on the 350? I understand from searching on here that the bolt angles are different on the tpi base, can these just be redrilled? What's involved, or do would it be best to find some 350 heads, if so which ones??
I have one tpi cam in one unit, and allegedly a 305 vortec in the other which would be best, I also have a set of roller rockers, which set up is best? Are they interchangeable between the 305 and 350.
I'm on a serious budget here and cant buy any big money items, I'm a skilled engine builder and just want to get the best bang for my buck, over here in the UK SBC knowledge is thin on the ground so i'm really hoping you guys can help...
Thanks
Last edited by 10mpg; Oct 7, 2012 at 06:09 AM.
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From: Grand Rapids MI
Car: 88 IROC-Z
Engine: 6.9L TPI(FIRST) 421ci
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Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
I don't know if 305 and 350 heads are the same but if you search the head numbers online you should be able to figure out what you have there.
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Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
Yes, generally you can put your 305 heads on a 350. Whether that's "the best" thing to do, depends on the particular 350. If the 350 you find is an old 70s smogger, then yes. If it's the one out of a TPI car, not so much. If it's a TBI 350 such as out of a late 80s - early 90s truck, also a good idea to do that.
The intake bolt angle thing is a very minor consideration. It's easiest to slot out the bolt holes in the intake and use angle washers, if you have to use heads that don't match yours.
Roller rockers are generally better than the stock rubber ones; but also generally, they most likely won't fit under your stock valve covers.
The intake bolt angle thing is a very minor consideration. It's easiest to slot out the bolt holes in the intake and use angle washers, if you have to use heads that don't match yours.
Roller rockers are generally better than the stock rubber ones; but also generally, they most likely won't fit under your stock valve covers.
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From: Milwaukee
Car: 92 Firebird, 77 Trans Am SE, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 HSR, T/A 6.6, empty
Transmission: T-5, TH350, T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.08 posi, 3.23 posi, 3.23
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
Yes, the blocks are interchangable. Yes, you will need bigger injectors. (19lbs. for 305, 22lbs. for 350) I believe the knock sensor is required but I have read about people not changing prom or esc. I can't say for sure if you need to or not.
The 305 heads will bolt up, but the valve sizes are 1.84 intake and 1.50 exhaust as opposed 1.94 and 1.50 on the 350 heads. The compression will go up but the valves would still be a restriction. Personally, I'd find a set of 87 or later 350 heads that are NOT vortec and you will be able to use your TPI intake with no mods. That leaves you with 2 factory head choices, TBI swirl port 193 and TPI 14101083. TPI heads are better but if you're on a budget 193's are ok for a mild build. Some people hate 193 heads but they will still work and are everywhere.
Use whatever rocker arms you like as long as they are self aligning. (87 and later heads require SA as long as you not using guide plates.)
And as far as your cam, without specs on the "305 vortec" its hard to advise. They may be very simlar cams.
Its a straight forward swap otherwise.
The 305 heads will bolt up, but the valve sizes are 1.84 intake and 1.50 exhaust as opposed 1.94 and 1.50 on the 350 heads. The compression will go up but the valves would still be a restriction. Personally, I'd find a set of 87 or later 350 heads that are NOT vortec and you will be able to use your TPI intake with no mods. That leaves you with 2 factory head choices, TBI swirl port 193 and TPI 14101083. TPI heads are better but if you're on a budget 193's are ok for a mild build. Some people hate 193 heads but they will still work and are everywhere.
Use whatever rocker arms you like as long as they are self aligning. (87 and later heads require SA as long as you not using guide plates.)
And as far as your cam, without specs on the "305 vortec" its hard to advise. They may be very simlar cams.
Its a straight forward swap otherwise.
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Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
193 = truck heads referred to above; you DON'T want those. They will further amplify the problem TPI already has, of very poor high-RPM (above 4000 or so) performance.
Another head option is the 113 casting. Comes on the ZZ4 over-the-counter engine and the 350 TPI in Vettes. It has the other intake bolt pattern though. But as stated above that's a very minor consideration, and CERTAINLY not worth downgrading to TBI "swirlies" over.
I have no idea what choice would be best in the UK; I'm guessing though that any of the "good" heads are going to be EXTREMELY ££££, but garbage like 193 and 70s smoggers will be plentiful. I'd advise not getting in too much of a hurry if you really want to swap heads, but rather, wait until something other than ... a bunch of garbage ... comes along.
Another head option is the 113 casting. Comes on the ZZ4 over-the-counter engine and the 350 TPI in Vettes. It has the other intake bolt pattern though. But as stated above that's a very minor consideration, and CERTAINLY not worth downgrading to TBI "swirlies" over.
I have no idea what choice would be best in the UK; I'm guessing though that any of the "good" heads are going to be EXTREMELY ££££, but garbage like 193 and 70s smoggers will be plentiful. I'd advise not getting in too much of a hurry if you really want to swap heads, but rather, wait until something other than ... a bunch of garbage ... comes along.
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From: Delaware
Car: 91' Firebird SOLD
Engine: 350 TPI +bolt-ons
Transmission: 700r4
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Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
I would use the Vortec cam over the 305 Iroc cam you have now. Some 87' automatic cars got the "peanut cam". Or you can find a used Lt1 cam for about $40 and put that in.
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From: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Car: '87 IROCZ-28
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: LSD
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
Hi, thanks! yeah one of the sets of heads I have are 'swirlies' the other are the stock TPI head which i was told were better..
How do I ID my cams, are there markings or do I have to measure lift/duration?
The roller rockers do fit under the stock covers, how do i tell if their self aligning or not? Where are the guide plates (if any?)
Thanks!
How do I ID my cams, are there markings or do I have to measure lift/duration?
The roller rockers do fit under the stock covers, how do i tell if their self aligning or not? Where are the guide plates (if any?)
Thanks!
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From: Milwaukee
Car: 92 Firebird, 77 Trans Am SE, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 HSR, T/A 6.6, empty
Transmission: T-5, TH350, T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.08 posi, 3.23 posi, 3.23
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
The other set of heads you have are the original 305 tpi heads or 350 tpi heads? Sadly the vast majority of later model 350 heads made were the 193's. What kind of emmission requirements do you have? If you go with the 113 aluminum heads they do not have a exhaust crossover, then you may have to add a EGR tube from the exhaust manifold to the intake and likely a corvette tpi intake. But thats if you're required to keep the egr over there.
Sofa may know way more about about putting 305 heads on a 350, but my experience is minimal with that.
As far as markings on the cams, I'm not sure if there are any but ninetyone has a good point using an LT1 cam, even if they're not widely available there, they're cheap enough here that the shipping cost probably be the worst part.
The guide plates would be bolted under the rocker arm stud. Both sets of heads you have should still be pressed in studs so you won't have to worry about guide plates.
I think there should be little washers or a bevel to keep the rocker arm roller aligned on the valve stem, not sure if there are any other visual clues.
Sofa may know way more about about putting 305 heads on a 350, but my experience is minimal with that.
As far as markings on the cams, I'm not sure if there are any but ninetyone has a good point using an LT1 cam, even if they're not widely available there, they're cheap enough here that the shipping cost probably be the worst part.
The guide plates would be bolted under the rocker arm stud. Both sets of heads you have should still be pressed in studs so you won't have to worry about guide plates.
I think there should be little washers or a bevel to keep the rocker arm roller aligned on the valve stem, not sure if there are any other visual clues.
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From: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Car: '87 IROCZ-28
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: LSD
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
my tpi heads are from my original 305 tpi my choices of heads here are 14101081 or 14102187..
No emissions requirements at all, we don't need a cat on the car until 1991 over here, it has to pass a basic emmisions test, but to be honest it's very lax pre 1991..
Thanks
No emissions requirements at all, we don't need a cat on the car until 1991 over here, it has to pass a basic emmisions test, but to be honest it's very lax pre 1991..
Thanks
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From: Milwaukee
Car: 92 Firebird, 77 Trans Am SE, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 HSR, T/A 6.6, empty
Transmission: T-5, TH350, T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.08 posi, 3.23 posi, 3.23
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
If you do decide to use the 305 heads then yeah, the 081's are the better choice. Since you have no emmissions to worry about the 113 heads are pretty good if you can find a set. A set of 083 iron TPI heads are good as well and you wouldn't have to change anything. Neither flow as well as just about any recent aftermarket head, but that may or may not be an option depending on your budget.
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From: Norwalk, Ohio
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: 385
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Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
081 heads (305 TPI) on a 350 will bump your compression close to, or at, the point of detonation on the highest octane pump gas, depending on the variables of course. Your best bet for efficiency would be to find a decent set of 083 heads (350 TPI). I got my set of re-machined 083 heads for $200. I don't know about the situation across the pond though.
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Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
081 = the heads you already have
187 = 305 "swirles"; as bad as 193, except worse because they have smaller valves
An option would be to build a relatively low-compression 350 short block, use your 081 heads, and have the 1.94" (350 size) intake valves installed in them. Port the bowl area, right behind the valve, after the rough cut for the larger valves is done, but before the final fitting is done.
Best to use a cat, if for no other reason than, it's easier to put a cat-back on it if there's a cat there. Minimal cost for a cat; around $100 here which is around £60.
187 = 305 "swirles"; as bad as 193, except worse because they have smaller valves
An option would be to build a relatively low-compression 350 short block, use your 081 heads, and have the 1.94" (350 size) intake valves installed in them. Port the bowl area, right behind the valve, after the rough cut for the larger valves is done, but before the final fitting is done.
Best to use a cat, if for no other reason than, it's easier to put a cat-back on it if there's a cat there. Minimal cost for a cat; around $100 here which is around £60.
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From: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Car: '87 IROCZ-28
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: LSD
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
Sounds like a PLAN!
My car hasn’t had a cat in a decade and i'd have to import one so i think i'm gonna skip that one, as more hassle than it's worth..
One advantage of living here in the Uk is we have very good gas i used to use 98 or 99 Octane in the Camaro before and it went so much better than on regular 95, the difference was night and day, so I'm more than happy to use the expensive Gas as it's not my daily drive especially if it means i can run decent CR which should hopefully result in a more efficient engine overall..
One question, whould the ESC and computer not pull the timing in if it senses detonation? or does that just happen within strict parameters..?
Should hear the spec of the 350 i'm interested in tomorrow and will report back when i know what I'm dealing with!
My car hasn’t had a cat in a decade and i'd have to import one so i think i'm gonna skip that one, as more hassle than it's worth..
One advantage of living here in the Uk is we have very good gas i used to use 98 or 99 Octane in the Camaro before and it went so much better than on regular 95, the difference was night and day, so I'm more than happy to use the expensive Gas as it's not my daily drive especially if it means i can run decent CR which should hopefully result in a more efficient engine overall..
One question, whould the ESC and computer not pull the timing in if it senses detonation? or does that just happen within strict parameters..?
Should hear the spec of the 350 i'm interested in tomorrow and will report back when i know what I'm dealing with!
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Car: 91' Firebird SOLD
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Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
https://www.thirdgen.org/tech-data
that link has some good stock cam specs in it.
that link has some good stock cam specs in it.
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From: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Car: '87 IROCZ-28
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: LSD
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
I've been offered three 350's one from a classic dayvan (so will be a smogger i'm sure) the other two are defiantly smoggers, dished pistons etc, so what sort of CR am i likely to get with this setup?
Also is there a good book that can tell me all this sort of stuff? I'm looking on Amazon and there's quite a choice...
Also is there a good book that can tell me all this sort of stuff? I'm looking on Amazon and there's quite a choice...
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From: Macon, GA
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Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
One advantage of living here in the Uk is we have very good gas i used to use 98 or 99 Octane in the Camaro before and it went so much better than on regular 95, the difference was night and day, so I'm more than happy to use the expensive Gas as it's not my daily drive especially if it means i can run decent CR which should hopefully result in a more efficient engine overall..
Research Octane Number (RON)
The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for mixtures of iso-octane and n-heptane.
Motor Octane Number (MON)
There is another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON), or the aviation lean octane rating, which is a better measure of how the fuel behaves when under load, as it is determined at 900 rpm engine speed, instead of the 600 rpm for RON.[1] MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern gasoline will be about 8 to 10 points lower than the RON, however there is no direct link between RON and MON. Normally, fuel specifications require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.[citation needed]
Anti-Knock Index (AKI)
In most countries, including Australia and all of those in Europe, the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States and some other countries, like Brazil, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI, and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Pump Octane Number (PON).
Difference between RON and AKI
Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane rating shown in Canada and the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the rating shown elsewhere in the world for the same fuel. See the table in the following section for a comparison.
The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for mixtures of iso-octane and n-heptane.
Motor Octane Number (MON)
There is another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON), or the aviation lean octane rating, which is a better measure of how the fuel behaves when under load, as it is determined at 900 rpm engine speed, instead of the 600 rpm for RON.[1] MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern gasoline will be about 8 to 10 points lower than the RON, however there is no direct link between RON and MON. Normally, fuel specifications require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.[citation needed]
Anti-Knock Index (AKI)
In most countries, including Australia and all of those in Europe, the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States and some other countries, like Brazil, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI, and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Pump Octane Number (PON).
Difference between RON and AKI
Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane rating shown in Canada and the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the rating shown elsewhere in the world for the same fuel. See the table in the following section for a comparison.
Chances are your 99 octane, even if it is slightly better, is nowhere near enough. If you want to risk having a car that will blow itself to pieces every time you get on it and still make less than 300 rwhp, then I wish you luck with that.
Remember, it costs a lot more power to pull timing out to prevent detonation than it does to just lower the compression level.
I've been offered three 350's one from a classic dayvan (so will be a smogger i'm sure) the other two are defiantly smoggers, dished pistons etc, so what sort of CR am i likely to get with this setup?
Also is there a good book that can tell me all this sort of stuff? I'm looking on Amazon and there's quite a choice...
Also is there a good book that can tell me all this sort of stuff? I'm looking on Amazon and there's quite a choice...
Last edited by InfernalVortex; Oct 9, 2012 at 08:32 AM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 39
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From: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Car: '87 IROCZ-28
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: LSD
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
Thanks for clearing up the ocatne thing, good to know that you guys get decent gas as well...
Ive been offered a 4 bolt main 350 with crank/rods/+20 pistons, and a starter motor for a good price
its a GM21 3970010 which according to nastyZ28 works out as
Years Casting CID LPower HPower Main Caps Comments
1969-79 3970010350 185 370 2 or 4car, truck, Vette
Ive been offered a 4 bolt main 350 with crank/rods/+20 pistons, and a starter motor for a good price
its a GM21 3970010 which according to nastyZ28 works out as
Years Casting CID LPower HPower Main Caps Comments
1969-79 3970010350 185 370 2 or 4car, truck, Vette
Last edited by 10mpg; Oct 9, 2012 at 06:21 PM.
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Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
The 010 casting is probably the single most common 70s 4" bore block. Nothing special either bad or good; just, commonplace. Aside from taking the risk of crappy 70s quality control, nothing really different about that casting from any other. Doesn't tell you the first thing about what kind of power it'll make, or can withstand without becoming a grenade, or anything like that. Won't have a roller cam, obviously; a serious downgrade from your TPI motor in that respect for sure.
Frankly I'd keep looking. The short block you want to find, is a 96-2000 Chevy/GMC truck. NOT, 95-back. There's gotta be plenty of those over there, they're pretty much WORLDWIDE. Be patient and keep your money in your pocket until THE RIGHT thing comes along.
Frankly I'd keep looking. The short block you want to find, is a 96-2000 Chevy/GMC truck. NOT, 95-back. There's gotta be plenty of those over there, they're pretty much WORLDWIDE. Be patient and keep your money in your pocket until THE RIGHT thing comes along.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Car: '87 IROCZ-28
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: LSD
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
Thanks for that, will do, i don't hold out huge hope of finding anything post 96 being parted out though, that'd still be a quite valuable truck over here and worth fixing up if the motor went, never say never though, I'll keep looking..
I take it there's no real way to fit the roller cam setup to a non roller block?
Talking to the guy I bought the 305 off (he agreed to a very reasonable refund, yay..) he told me the cam is a 350 Vortec unit, is this worth keeping for the final build or should i just pass it on, i'm not upgrading anything transmission right now and i have crazy tall rear axle gears so i need it to pull well with a good spread of torque I’d sacrifice some outright power quite happily for a nice tractable engine that gives good(ish) mileage and will hold together well..
I take it there's no real way to fit the roller cam setup to a non roller block?
Talking to the guy I bought the 305 off (he agreed to a very reasonable refund, yay..) he told me the cam is a 350 Vortec unit, is this worth keeping for the final build or should i just pass it on, i'm not upgrading anything transmission right now and i have crazy tall rear axle gears so i need it to pull well with a good spread of torque I’d sacrifice some outright power quite happily for a nice tractable engine that gives good(ish) mileage and will hold together well..
Last edited by 10mpg; Oct 9, 2012 at 07:19 PM.
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Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
You guys get enough snow over there, that I'm sure the roads have to be cleared quite a bit... and then, what do they use for salt & plow trucks?
¾ ton Chevy I'm betting, just like the rest of the globe.
Which means, SOMEWHERE there's a WHOLE BUNCH of totally rotted-out truck bodies dissolving into little brownish-red piles, that the motors only have 10,000 miles on em. Tough miles maybe, but still...
They're out there. Sit down, take a deep breath, maybe a draught of your favorite beverage. Resolve to seek until you find, because YOU CAN.
¾ ton Chevy I'm betting, just like the rest of the globe.
Which means, SOMEWHERE there's a WHOLE BUNCH of totally rotted-out truck bodies dissolving into little brownish-red piles, that the motors only have 10,000 miles on em. Tough miles maybe, but still...
They're out there. Sit down, take a deep breath, maybe a draught of your favorite beverage. Resolve to seek until you find, because YOU CAN.
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From: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Car: '87 IROCZ-28
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: LSD
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
I WISH that were so sofakingdom, both that we had a surplus of decent trucks and we got decent snow..
a combination of LHD and 'man sized' engines, means US pickup trucks never sold here at all, i'm not even sure if any were imported... if we need a 4x4 over here we get a Land Rover/Range Rover or a Land Cruiser, (or one of the other japanese pretenders) or occasionaly Jeep ( but it will be a Diesel one) I own a old 1997 Range Rover for example, it's just used for towing and when the weathers bad, these are not expensive cars once they're a few years old, if i wanted to replace this with a similar age Chev pickup I'd have to put decent money into the deal as well...
We get probably a week of plougable snow, tops, the county has 12 ton trucks that look more like garbage trucks fitted with snow ploughs and gritters combined, these clear most of the roads without a problem no-one has seen or heard of personal snow ploughs fitted to a private truck, even i was amazed seeing how many plough trucks you guys have sittting around in the colder states..
You gotta remember over here anything with a 2.0 engine is considered big, the concept of having a work vehicle with a 5.7 (350) in it is little short of a joke, bordering on madness, some of us do it but we're in the minority...
a combination of LHD and 'man sized' engines, means US pickup trucks never sold here at all, i'm not even sure if any were imported... if we need a 4x4 over here we get a Land Rover/Range Rover or a Land Cruiser, (or one of the other japanese pretenders) or occasionaly Jeep ( but it will be a Diesel one) I own a old 1997 Range Rover for example, it's just used for towing and when the weathers bad, these are not expensive cars once they're a few years old, if i wanted to replace this with a similar age Chev pickup I'd have to put decent money into the deal as well...
We get probably a week of plougable snow, tops, the county has 12 ton trucks that look more like garbage trucks fitted with snow ploughs and gritters combined, these clear most of the roads without a problem no-one has seen or heard of personal snow ploughs fitted to a private truck, even i was amazed seeing how many plough trucks you guys have sittting around in the colder states..
You gotta remember over here anything with a 2.0 engine is considered big, the concept of having a work vehicle with a 5.7 (350) in it is little short of a joke, bordering on madness, some of us do it but we're in the minority...
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,097
Likes: 177
From: Milwaukee
Car: 92 Firebird, 77 Trans Am SE, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 HSR, T/A 6.6, empty
Transmission: T-5, TH350, T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.08 posi, 3.23 posi, 3.23
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
You can fit a roller cam in an older block but you have to get the right aftermarket stuff and that is normally expensive. Its much cheaper and easier to find a OE roller block. As far as your 350 vortec cam, (if that is what it is) will spec out at 191/196 0.418/0.430 lift 111 LSA. Idles smooth and has fair low end, but its a bit small even if you have high gears in the back. Not bad but not great.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,499
Likes: 31
From: Macon, GA
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Vortec headed 355, xe262
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt 3.70
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
It's probably an added $750-$1000 over using factory parts, before overseas shipping, so think about it real hard. Building a flat tappet cam engine these days isnt smart. I did it, and Im probably going to do it again, but I wouldnt recommend it. You leave power and reliability on the table.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Car: '87 IROCZ-28
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: LSD
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
it's not that 350's are hard to find, there are plenty of them out there, i could go and buy a decent enough crate engine for £2200 ($3500ish) or i could get a decent warranted secondhand runner from a dayvan for around £1500 maybe an dextra £200 for a complete tpi Vette motor aside from not having the cash i want to know the engine good, seeing how much of a pain they are to get in and out..
You can always find a 350 for sale, it's just the choice and budget that are the problem, they only really came here via personal imports often via US servicemen, and the cars they're in are often desirable and rarely broken up for parts.
I just paid £400 ($650ish) for a 305 TBI which turned out to be no good, (i got some money back) but still, it's pretty much a case of take what turns up, if you have a spending limit
You can always find a 350 for sale, it's just the choice and budget that are the problem, they only really came here via personal imports often via US servicemen, and the cars they're in are often desirable and rarely broken up for parts.
I just paid £400 ($650ish) for a 305 TBI which turned out to be no good, (i got some money back) but still, it's pretty much a case of take what turns up, if you have a spending limit
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Car: '87 IROCZ-28
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: LSD
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
One question i need to ask is, how much power is realistic? I'm hoping for at least 250bhp flywheel, more would be nice? But i dont want to get my hopes up..
What do you guy think?
What do you guy think?
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,097
Likes: 177
From: Milwaukee
Car: 92 Firebird, 77 Trans Am SE, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 HSR, T/A 6.6, empty
Transmission: T-5, TH350, T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.08 posi, 3.23 posi, 3.23
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
Ouch. In some instances we can get 305's for free here. 250 bhp is possible. Exhaust will likely need an upgrade. The cam you have (vortec) will either need 1.6 rockers or better yet a different cam altogether. It depends on what you have to work with to get that kind of horse. Lots of guys here can tell you the numerous ways to make a certain power goal, but I think you need to figure out what parts you'll have in hand and budget to make realistic recommendations.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,097
Likes: 177
From: Milwaukee
Car: 92 Firebird, 77 Trans Am SE, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 HSR, T/A 6.6, empty
Transmission: T-5, TH350, T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.08 posi, 3.23 posi, 3.23
Re: 350 swap in questions,keeping TPI??
Scratch that, for some reason I was thinking rear wheel horse not flywheel horse. That cam can make 250 with ease. Granted its a factory rating but factory vortec 350's got rated 255 hp. But that is also using vortec heads which outflow any older factory head.
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