hi guys so i just got a good paying job and i am saving up money for a new motor cause lets face it 305 will not satisfy my need for speed so i am getting close to being in the market for a new engine but i am torn between a chevy 350 or a LS motor i want about 400HP that will be a fun daily driver that will also make a mustang driver wish he never revved his engine i know i am not buying this motor for mpg but i would like at least like 15MPG around town and 20 or so on the high way also if any body is in the area of maryland and has a nice motor for sale budget would be around 5k or so but could get more money if needed and answers are helpful also i have a race quad that i might trade for a full turn key engine just let me know what you guys have thanks for looking at my post

 

Maybe you should read
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...third-gen.html

and see if you are up for /have the ability to do a LS swap
A Gen I engine is a straight drop in

Taking into account ,that once you spend your budget to upgrade the engine ,you then need extra $$$ to upgrade the driveline so it can handle the extra Hp

 

Not a popular choice, but an LT1 can do 400hp for $2k. $3k if you want to rebuild it. That leaves $2k for things like a T56, or Konis or something.

That said, I think an LS anything is a good idea. The iron blocks are much cheaper but you'll have to go out of your way to buy intakes and oilpans that fit.

 

400hp is reasonable either way. If you went SBC, would it specifically be a 350 or would you do a 355 or 383? also, carbed or FI? I would think the fuel mileage would be more obtainable with the LS but with the right gearing and tuning you could get it with the SBC too. Crate engines really seem like the way to go. You really can't build them much cheaper and they come with a WARRANTY!!! LS swaps are NOT cheap. I think pocket managed to do one for $1900 using a $300 5.3L truck engine but pocket is one of the LS swap kings. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...third-gen.html
My LS1/t56 swap is looking to cost around $7k using a donor car that i will also use the brakes from.

Don't forget that these cars need a lot of other mods (frame, rear diff, relocate torque arm and depending which trans you run) for 400hp.

SBC or LS, can't go wrong either way.

 

thank you guys for all the info i think ill go with a blue print sbc there is a fully dresses one that has every thing for turn key around 5k i am putting a th400 in place of th350 will i have to do anything to the front end to drop a 350 in or will it be fine car has a 305 in it right now o and 350 although i might go 355 or 383 there some nice one's out there

 

If you're concerned about fuel mileage why aren't you running an overdrive trans? Also, be careful with that ten bolt and get some subframe connectors.

 

I wouldn't drop a dime on a SBC when LSx engines are so cheap. If you can't afford one now, keep saving. Don't settle

Fwiw, a common ls3 topped lq4 with a mild cam and a 4l60e or t56 is an easy combo for 420-480rwhp. Budget $8k, half that if you can DIY a lot of the stuff

 

Those late model 5.0's are fast. Better start with some type of an LS engine and modify it.

 

If I were you I would find out more on Maryland Emission policies, and visit referee inspection station to get an idea on legality of any mod. I would start from there before spending a penny. If budget matters, try not to mix up daily drive and race. Slapping a powerful engine doesn't equal to a 'powerful & daily drive' car. For a daily drive & safety, you must think it from an overall mechanical system point of view where every single mechanical pieces plays a role beside engine alone.

 

i agree here, most Magazine professors know ONLY what they read, and lets face it they want you to buy their advertisers stuff so they stay in bisuness. most Mag builds are as practical as a screen door in a submarine.
with that all said, I believe that part of the point that "sonny" is tryin to make is that you cant just go buy a 400hp motor and throw it in your car, the motor may have been built for a quarter miler, or a pullin truck, in which case you would be pissed with either on the street in a third gen. and my pet peve is; What do you want to do with the car?? if you want to drive it everyday then building the fastest car in town is not the answer, because you will not be driving it in the winter. the best thing to do is figure out what you want to do with the car, decide where you want the "sweet spot" (RPM); decide what the minium and maximum rpm range will sute your needs. then you can talk logically with the parts men and get the parts that work together to reach your goals.

 

I have a threshold budget that kicks in over nostalgia. I went through a mind cycle of fixing thirdgen with limited mod, full fledged LS1 swap, buying 2000 TA, and back to fixing thirdgen. I wanted a daily drive kind, and almost settled on LS1 swap. Once settled, I looked into emission stuff in NJ. It was not fun and found hassle won’t be any less, rather a risk exists losing all investment merely by NJ-State not buying in to my mod. To compensate this, I was convinced with money I will be spending for a swap, I should add LS1 TA in my collection. But to my surprise when I drove it, I found not much of a difference comparing to thirdgen for regular drive. Rather, I felt thirdgen was smoother in drive-train and handling. Yes, 2000 TA had some extra HP and felt it would be great for a stock race in Atco, NJ. A lesson learned keeping a balance between race and drive. Many surely have said all along, but here are some repeats:

Engines Cross member:
1. A sphon member of tubular tube however great in reducing weight and to work on, but it lifts car by an inch+ it questions on car’s overall aero dynamic efficiency due to height increase.


2. A regular road full of debris constantly flying underneath the car increases damage possibility on vital parts. In a race track this is not an issue.



3. Cutting engine cross member to fit AC sure is a good option, but it completely missed the many metal stress test that goes on these sort of pieces on its safety. Cutting here, there and welding doesn’t give its structural integrity. Compensation work may require.



4. Summary: not a slap slam job. For a daily drive one need to do some more work beside cutting and welding.

Trans cross:
300 HP+ T56, may require little bit more then slapping hawk mod pieces. Summary: not a slap slam job. For a daily drive one need to do some more work.

Brakes:
220 HP vs 300 HP require bigger rotors and brakes. Add expenses.

Gauges:
Yea right! Will sure give you reliable info for years after years of daily drive….yes!.

Emission:
Long tube, no cats, daily drive, and state emission ………ha ha! Short tube, cat, mod, referee station, bi-yearly inspection & daily drive………….haggles………sure why not!

And spend money is………………..

As for 5.7 LS1 (346), there are many hypes on this engine, no doubt this is a good engine, but if you are willing to do some fab (and you should) any good compatible engine will do. Why then spend many Ks on LS1/T56. If you were an early bird, great, but now a LS1/T56 market exist to suck many Ks. Find cost reasonable cheap engine in 100s.

Race only…all swap stuff works out. Daily drive……. think again…if budget matters.

 

A couple things:
4th gen drivetrains are miles ahead of 3rd gens. Heck the 3800 was inline with the l98 performance. Weight distribution is closer to 50/50 for 4th gens while 3rd gens are closer to 60/40. I agree one should look into the legality of a swap before diving in, but as common as the swap is, it is becoming easier

1) where did you read that? I have a spohn LSx k-member. Weight loss is minimal, it doesn't raise anything. It gives more room, that's it. I have my own list of gripes, but that's another thread

2) maybe that's a problem in nj where the roads are horrendous. Never had a problem with all the miles and abuse I've given my car. I also avoid running over boulders

3) are you an engineer? The crossmember notch is fine

4) use your head when modifying something. Usually the sketchy parts are wiring and fuel systems, not a crossmember notch

I have double that on a similar design crossmember. I can't stand hawks but the design works fine... when it fits

Stock brakes leave a lot to be desired, sure. 200-300hp doesn't list it as a required upgrade

I use stock gauges still, no problem

Emissions, do your research. Because the rules were written by lawyers not gear heads, there is a lot of gray area

 

1. I am planning on relocating AC and do something with oil pan. I will not mod the cross member.

2. I am not against tinkering just pointing out situation in NJ. Other states/county/city/rural might not need to worry about any of these.

3. I am not questioning on LS1 engine's quality or its own performance, I am stating Pontiac Engineers did a poor job on 2000 TA (or like) from an overall performance point of view. You would expect that year 2000 technology should be much progressed then year 1982. It was not. I have a thirdgen, and wanted to add a 4th gen with LS1 after hearing/reading so much of it, but when I drove it, delta was insignificant rather I was unhappy on its overall performance. Extra HP was not only piece I had interest on. Comparing to that, Ford engineers have done better. As I have said, if race is the only thing in mind then all mods are OK.

 

well guys my dad talked me into to something different and its not horse power and its less expensive mod then a new motor that will come later on down the road and as for that i want the same motor he has in his GXP so a ls3 but that is a few years down the road well i have decided to do the smart thing and upgrade the handling its about 2k so it is much cheaper its a hotchkis tvs suspension kit sway bars springs the whole 9 after that tire and brake package then later on ls3 but i might also add some new gauges by autometer with the suspension kit i don't know ill see where the money is at the time

 

Dad is right

 

Love the first part of your post.Screen door on a submarine is a classic.

 

I completely agree that suspension should take the front seat before any type of motor swap in a thirdgen, make sure you get a good set of sub frame connectors and a nice rear end before you put power through the drivetrain

as for the legality of the swap, no need to worry in MD, Historic vehicles require no inspection or emissions testing, if not registered historic, once it passes inspection in stock form it doesn't need to be inspected again under the same owner(or if the vehicle is gifted) and the emissions testing is a joke

 

Historic plates are not for daily drive. State inspection are not jokes at all for a mod car.

 

Historic plates here in MD by law are for non daily driven cars, the car technically can be used once or twice a week for transportation to work and driven as much as you want on the weekend

that being said, it is not a law that is enforced, unless one works on a base or government facility that has guards who check you in and out, they usually get pissed if they see a vehicle tagged historic every day

i never said state inspection was easy for a modded car, i said get the stock car through MD state inspection, then mod the hell out of it because it won't have to go through again under your ownership

i DID say emissions testing here in MD is a joke, and nothing to worry about