I am new to this and this is my first post so i apologize in advance if i didn't post this in the right place.
Ok so i have a 1986 iroc-z that came with the LG4 5.0 with the 4bbl. Well i sold the car and the guy ripped out all the stock emission parts: Intake Manifold, EGR, Catalytic Converter, Air Cleaner, Carbon Tank, Cruise Control, Vacuum Hoses, A/C Unit and Pipping. The Car currently has all new top half of the engine including an Eldebrock 600 Carb, Inatke Manifold, Air Cleaner, and Valve Covers. The car is all basically all motor. Seems like senors plugs were all cut off too. SO THIS IS WHAT I NEED HELP ON. I live in California and i bought this car back at a killer deal. Car starts but since we are in California i can not smog it. At this point what are my options? Should i just rip out that motor and find a new 350 that comes with all the smog equipment including harness and computer? If so how hard is it to install an LT1 or even a TPI into this car?

86 IROC-Z M5,A4 LG4 V8 9.5:1 5.0 (305) 165@4400 250@2000 4bbl 3.23 3.73 2.73 ----

 

For the headache you're about to get into, you better have picked the car up for $45. Since you're in California, I don't think you can swap any other kind/size of engine in, maybe someone else can chime in about CA emissions laws. You are probably best off finding a donor car to get all of the parts from to reinstall, along with the wire harness and ECM.

Not exactly related, but why do you have multiple transmissions (M5, A4) and multiple rear gear ratios (3.23, 3.73, 2.73) listed at the bottom?

 

Dave is right. Piecing this together will be a nightmare that will result in abondoning the project. If you can find a donor car with everything in tact it will be easy.

 

You're probably not going to like this advice, but...

There is NO SUCH THING as

So I wouldn't advise going down that path.

Frankly, as a former resident of California myself, I wouldn't have accepted that thing as a GIFT, let alone gave anybody any money for it.

You just bought yourself a lawn ornament, not a car.

I would suggest parting it out.

 

drdave88, if you look at rizo916's profile he says under gears not sure, and under trans he has automatic, so I would take it he is just guessing at what it might have in the car. from the sounds of it a large headache.

I would part it out, I would follow the advice of getting a donor car, if you are a car guy, it will take you some time to swap everything over unless you can work on it all day long and know what your doing, from the sounds of it no offence here, your lacking some knowledge on cars, that's ok, that's what this forum is for. Good luck with your purchase and ask if you don't know. Good luck!

 

I was talking about maybe buying a 350 TPI or LT1 with Harness and computer they sell tthem for about 600 to 1200 depending on mileage. I have a total budget of 2500 that I can spend on the motor.And just to answer the gear and tranny thing it was just the thing that popped out when I looked up my Vin# car had a 305ci with a 700r4 transmission. And it looks like I might just have to part it. I only got the car for 500 I mainly got it for the body, I knew motor would have to be replaced.

 

It's been 11 years since I've lived in Los Angeles/born & raised & I'm sure things have changed etc, but I remember being able to go to a local auto repair shop & getting a smog certificate for a little extra cash wink wink. Sure that is illegal & harder to do in this day and age but other than that I agree w/above posters. Any chance you can get exempt plates due to age of your car? my 84 Z28 have special interest plates & I never have to smog (DEQ up here) or register it, best wishes

 

You know what that isn't a bad idea I am going to call up my old buddies to see if they still have the connect. Thanks

 

The penalty for getting caught on the wink wink nudge nudge deal is many $1000 plus loss of inspector's license. In other words, IT PUTS THE PERSON OUT OF BUSINESS, FOREVER.

I'm a pretty .... GREEDY .... kind of person; but risking THAT is not something I would ask of ANYONE. Least of all, a "buddy".

Realize you just made a mistake. Accept it. Accept that the consequences of an act are contained in making the decision to commit the act. Accept that you screwed up by buying that POS BEFORE you found out that it was worthless, instead of letting the little head do all the thinking for the big head and leaping before you looked. Accept that you should have come here (or gone to the BMV, or whatever) and done your research, BEFORE buying instead of AFTER. Accept that ANYTHING you do to "repair" that car to the point that it is licensable, will cost MORE THAN throwing it in the trash and buying a whole other car that DOESN'T need all of that.

Sorry, I/we can't reach back into the past and undo a bad decision.

$2000 for an emissions-complaint engine swap is pretty much fantasy land.

Part it out. Move on. Lesson learned.

 

I bought a 90 firebird for 500 with the 305 tbi and stuck everything in my 82 trans am and it passed with ease. Also did a 97 LT1 swap in my 97 3.8 camaro, got the z28 donor for 1,000 and it passes with ease. Neither have been to a ref.

 

rizo916, don't listen to the haters on this site. if it isn't going to be your daily driver, go to a junk yard and buy/pull the engine trans, wiring harness, everything you need and put it together, now I don't recommend asking a buddy to go against the grain, then again I am not you am I ........... if you like the car and have the extra time and money then make the swap. don't listen to the SOFAkingdom!

 

Just don't forget, EVERY DIME you put toward any "swap", is money that's GONE, and you can't get it back.

You should be able to sell the parts of that car for more than you paid for the car. Meaning, you can turn a mistake into a profit, but IF AND ONLY IF you man up to the fact you made a mistake in the first place. Once you start sinking money into it though, the likelihood of (a) ever getting it back, (b) getting the car to pass, and (c) still having your $2000 when you get done, shrinks for every dollar you spend on that steaming pile.

Don't listen to dreamers WHO DON'T HAVE ANY SKIN IN THE GAME, or to people who got lucky at some point in the past. Just because THEY got lucky ONCE, or even TWICE, does not automatically guarantee that YOU will get lucky TOO.

Don't throw good money after bad.

Part it out.

 

i'd like to see pics of this $500 car. that way you'd be able to tell if it was worth the expense and time of restoring it to pass emissions.

 

SOFAkingdom, sounds like you have been bitten by the I did a dumb thing at one time or another, we haven't even seen the car and your all about him parting it out, if I had listen to people like you, I would have ever built a car. why not just get off that high horse your on and let this young man alone, we know exactly where you stand on this subject the first post you put up #4.

rizo916, if you do have pics post them if not take some lets see this 500.00 car.

I paid 250.00 for a 90 rs, it was wrecked in the front, no engine or trans dash taken out all the wiring removed in car and under hood. I changed it from an automatic to a 5 speed, it was rough to say the least. I now enjoy the car. it needs paint but that is it.
if this car you have is a rust bucket then maybe not a good idea, if the body is in good shape then everything else is a walk in the park. will it take time sure just move at a moderate pace and you can get it done.

I can and will help you with any question you may have along the way, If I don't know the answer, I'm sure someone on here will.

 

rizo while I dont have pics of the 82 trans am or 90 donor firebird, the 82 was sold to a guy in the netherlands.

but here is the 97 z28 donor I bought for a 1,000 of craigslist. His ad said motor overheats badly and cant pass smog. Put airdam on and thermostat and temps were fine. Fixed the lt1 intake elbow it was torn and the car passed smog easily. then all its z28 stuff went into my clean 97 3.8 camaro and gave the remains and all my v6 stuff to my girlfriend and she built it back up. So yes a donor car is the way to go.

day I bought the 97





how it looks now



its LT1 out



3.8 back in the z28 donor



this is my ex 3.8 97 that got all the z28 stuff, so for a grand I got my v8 conversion and girfriend got a great camaro.

 

Ok so this is the car RPO and VIN indicates its a true IROC Z harness still intact but not connected to anything. All top motor is brand new with receipts. Also added the pics of the items that were removed. I have stock 4bbl carb and stock intake manifold. Also I am planning to keep this car not trying to flip it or anything just build something to have fun with during summer.

 

to be emmisions legal you need same year or newer engine and emissions stuff. Donor motor must also be from the same vehicle classification as your camaro. Say you can't put a truck engine in a passenger car.

If you had tpi your going to have to put it back on along with all emissions equipment that were on that model year.

 

No; not that at all.

However, in my near 40 yrs in this hobby, I've seen about every kind of thing that couldn't possibly go wrong, go wrong.

The SINGLE MOST FREQUENT thing that goes wrong in a situation like this is, thinking that the cost of buying a motor (or a donor car for that matter) is the only expense involved. Because ALOT of the time, it's not only not the ONLY expense, it isn't even the MAJOR one. Which of course, somebody that doesn't have experience with this, won't realize it until it's too late.

The SECOND most common thing that goes wrong in a situation like this is, biting off more than you can chew. For somebody with some swap experience, yeah maybe taking this on would be good. But we're not talking about YOU or ME doing this, we're talking about THE OP. There's a WORLD of difference between "I did it and it worked out", and "you should do it". And of course, once the OP falls for the "cheeep eeezy" talk and goes out and spends his money on ... something, and then discovers LATER that it doesn't fit / he's missing something critical / can't figure out what to do / needs a so-and-so but it costs more than the motor did / and on and on, it's TOO LATE to go back and undo it.

The THIRD most common obstacle, in an emissions situation, is underestimating what it will take to pass inspection. Sure, there's some details that can slip by unnoticed (a 350 block where a 305 one used to be for example); but then there's all the ones that WON'T slip by. In a swap situation that might include the evaporative system (vents, solenoids, service ports, and so forth) not complete, keeping in mid that it has to meet the specs for the newer donor, not the older recipient; exhaust system incorrect in some way or other (lacking some piece that won't fit under the car for example); the list goes on and on of possible pitfalls in this area.

The FOURTH most common thing that goes wrong, is when the "donor" isn't in perfect working condition, but instead requires major work. For example, let's say he goes out and buys a nice 97 Z28 in supposedly running inspectable condition for $1000, but he has to use THAT transmission (which he WILL), and it's dead... a 4L60E is around $1400 or so to get rebuilt, out of a $2000 budget that $1000 is already spent, and who knows what all else will be needed after just those 2 items.

So Jeff, stop trying to put YOUR rose-colored glasses on the OP and leading him down the primrose path that ends up with 2 disassembled cars on blocks in the yard, the cost of the "recipient" car PLUS the cost of the donor car spent and gone, NO car that works, NO money, and he's just as far as he ever was from having one that DOES work. You posting a bunch of that crap on the Internet isn't going to refill his checking account or get his car(s) down off of blocks and a license plate on them. While you're completely correct that I don't know him and haven't seen the car, I've known HUNDREDS of people in similar situations and seen an equal number of cars about like what he's got, and I KNOW what he's up against. And for him to simply step back and evaluate where he is now, and what the simplest cheeeeepest lowest risk way to get to where he wants to be, fixing a car in the condition he describes ISN'T it.

 

I completely understand where ypu are coming from sofakindom but my budget isn't 2000 I haven't really set one since I am planing to keep this car. I plan on investing little by little at a time. So money really isn't an issue. I just needed advise because I see people with swapped out motors almost everyday online or on tje streets so I figured someone had gone through what I am going through. I also understand I am going to be loosing money at the end of all this. But thanks for your advise Sofakingdom good to know how bad im going to mess up on taking this project on good thing I got 20 years more to catch up to your level

 

sofakingdom

why the harsh words, how did I mislead him? I test drove the 97 z28 and drove it home about 70 miles and while it ran hot it never overheated nor smelled like it did.

ok so I spent a grand on a donor car, had my girlfriend not wanted the camaro I could have sold left over parts from the donor car and sold all my perfectly working 3.8 parts and easily gotten back 3/4 of the price I paid for the donor z28.

Where is the risk if you test drive it and drive it another 70 miles and it does fine? I have put about 2200 miles on my camaro since the swap and it has performed excellent. It only issue when I got it really was temps would climb to the 3rd mark on the gauge out at road speed but when I showed up to buy the car that is first thing I saw was air dam missing.

Yes I probably got a deal that many would love to have snagged but when you snooze you lose.

Look how the kid worded his ad, he said shop told him car needed a new engine, how many people will walk from that?

but here the lt1 is going down road and temps (this was after putting thermostat in and getting a airdam on it)



and how clean inside it was





here was the 82 trans am, yes it is a TBI 1990 engine and all electronics and every possible 1990 stuff installed. It passed smog with ease up until motor got tired and was burning oil, it was then sold to twin_turbo and he is fixing up. But to get everything possible for a smog legal swap a donor car is the only way to go, especially if you find one cheap.

 

That definitely was a sweet deal and I know out here they sell the bodys alone for more then that especially with those miles. Plus even if the motor was no good parts alone would of sold for a good price.

 

rizo

I'm from southern california so yeah know what a bitch it is for smog. Hit the wrecking yards and find whatever your car came with.

But try a few places for a wrecked donor car or something, heck a newer model engine and electronics will give you more power then the stock iroc motor ever had.

Hell find like a grand prix with that supercharged 3.8 and all the electronics.

There are a lot of things you can do and be smog legal.

 

Jeffs82TA

Yea tomorrow is my first day off and I am putting the car on lifts and actually checking to see what I need. Last resort if I do mess up as bad as Sofakingdom implemented then I can just pay someone to do it for me I guess but the whole point of a project is to mess up and have fun right. I can purchase an LT1 with Harness and tranny for 800 or a LS1 with harness for 1600. Its just the stupid smog stuff and it looks like no matter what I will have to get a doner for smog parts

 

think of the benefits, maybe your seats are bad, find a donor with nice seats. Hell when I did my 97 camaro I put all the z28's a/c stuff in and it blows ice cold, nothing looks out of place and you can't tell it didn't come from the factory with a v8, nice to because it is insured as a v6 haha.

was a win win situation for me.

 

was your car a TPI?

9th vin digit will tell you probably a F or 8

nevermind saw it was a LG4. You can do a TPI swap easily and parts easier to find

 

perfect donor if it really does run good, but heck gives you a 5 speed, fuel injection, nicer rims, all electronics to pass smog

http://stockton.craigslist.org/cto/4397982043.html

 

Oh damn that is a good find thanks I'll see if I can check it out today show up with 700 and a 5speed would be nice.

 

Jeff, no harsh words here; certainly nothing as harsh as

You can post up all the pics you want of all this great and wonderful stuff that happened to you; I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm not calling you a liar, nothing like that. What I AM saying is, just because YOU got lucky, doesn't automatically mean he will too. And as far as that goes, we all know how YOU feel too, and posting more pics won't inform Rizo in the slightest about what HIS situation holds in store for HIM. Total waste of bandwidth.

Let me tell you another story: I happen to know someone personally who was out skydiving one day, and his parachute malfunctioned. But he survived; a few broken bones and not much else. So lets see here: he should now get on all the skydiving web sites and tell people "you don't need a parachute, I can prove it, see all these pics here", right?? What you're telling him, which is THE EXACT SAME THING except engine-swapping instead of skydiving, makes about as much sense.

I'm also not telling anybody that they're automatically going to "mess up". I'm merely being the voice of reason and caution and common sense and experience, as opposed to wild optimism and rose-colored glasses. Rizo, if you have lots of time to work on it (that is, it can be done a little at a time, doesn't have to be done right away) that definitely works in your favor. If you have lots of tools, have done this sort of thing before, know what you're getting into, have a place you can leave 2 disabled cars sitting around long-term without causing yourself trouble, that also works in your favor. Having $2500 instead of $2000 is also a good thing. Just don't be too surprised if what looks easy on the front end, turns out to be AHELLUVALOT more trouble and expense than you ever thought it would be.

If you're going to do a swap, get the newest donor vehicle you can find. IMO one of the worst things you could do would be to try to swap in a TPI motor. Not only because TPI itself is obsolete, but because every plastic, rubber, electrical, and vacuum thing you touch, is likely to crumble to dust. Yet another "unforeseen" (by some people) issue that always seems to crop up. The newer the donor, the less likely you are to run into stuff like that, that falls apart as you try to work on it, and then can't find it or it costs an arm and a leg.

 

Sofa, why don't you drop it? A donor car is what he needs .. He is missing the big enchilada not a .49 cent taco.

a cheap donor will give him everything he needs to do a swap.

like the c/l car I posted, has serpentine, all a/c equipment, 5 speed, newer body ground effects, newer dash, all electronics and smog devices.

He will spend a fortune to find all that lg4 stuff, but in the end a efi donor will give him better economy, driveability you name it.

 

Can't I also just install the 4bbl and intake manifold back. Also add the evap system and new cat? And of course buy all new hoses and sensors? You know what that wino wink smog is starting to sound alot better hahaha. The only real reason I decided on this car is because one it was cheap. 2 has alot of new parts I personally installed before selling. And 3 the car has low miles and im second owner. First owner had it on non op since 98.

 

I think not. that carb not smog legal. think original was a qaudrajet feedback carb. Go TBI you will thank yourself in the end.

 

Let's ignore Jeff, he obviously has nothing useful or of value to contribute; all he wants to do is attack ME.

Rizo, there's no reason you "can't" put the 4-bbl and all that, back like it was; except that you (a) have to find one - 25 yrs old and all - that isn't hacked to bits or crumbling to dust with dissimilar-metal electrolysis corrosion; and (b) you also have to find all the wiring, sensors, connectors, etc. etc. etc. that goes with it, to satisfy the smog ****.

Not saying it can't be done; only, it'll take a HUGE stroke of luck to find a car that has all that, in a useable condition (or at least repairable), but that isn't already a better car than the one you're trying to restore. IOW, why go buy a pristine car, hack it to bits, transfer all the good stuff onto some POS, then throw away the pristine one? Doesn't make sense.

Sense is, part out the one you've got. Sell that carb to somebody that has a pre-emissions vehicle. Sell whatever else about it is good and salvageable. Then go out and buy the SAME PRISTINE car you need to fix it, except you'll have a whole bunch more $$$$ jingling around in your pocket after parting out the hacked-up POS, and you won't have to chop it up to fix that other, and you can just immediately start driving it right then and there. You won't have to do any .... w .... wo ...... wo ..... work. : puuuuuuuuuuuuuke: There, I said a nasty dirty 4-letter word ending in "k". I'll say another one, now that I've already tossed my cookies: "risk". If there are any 2 things in the world to avoid, it is THOSE 2 right there.

 

you have to put it back EXACTLY the way it was new.otherwise you cant register it.

 

Am I the only one who saw this?

Yes, you can put that back on, and all of the other stuff that was taken off. As long as the ECM and harness are there to operate it, you should be fine.

BTW, you also need the stock distributor. Assuming it was replaced when the Edelbrock was put on (if not, they were ignorant, and you are lucky).

 

I would have to agree with SOFA on his many points about what direction to take this. If this can be and is a long term project like you say it is (mine is for sure) then maybe you will get lucky and find everything you need. The biggest problem with these older computer controlled carbs is the harnesses are usually pretty hacked both under the hood and under the dash. That will be your main sticking point I believe. You could make one by getting a diagram and the pigtails for everything. Hope you can find the correct distributor and computer if they are not present.

As far as a swap, I like the pictures of the clean bottom end, guess what? When I did my LT1 swap mine looked the same way and had less than 100k on the motor. I did my homework and found that lots of people had issues with the bottom ends in these motors and pulled my caps and found the bearings were toast. It is fairly common for an LT1 to spin a bearing. What does that mean? Like SOFA said if you do a swap expect the unexpected.

I paid $2500 for my LT1/T56 with harness, computer, pedals, hyros, trans crossmember, and all of the sensors and switches I wanted. I the motor was clean and I heard it run in a video clip and I saw the donor car and took everything else I wanted for the swap. Not often you get all of the little bits no one thinks about for a swap. I still spent a ton of money to put it all together because I wanted to do it right. Can you do a swap with little money? Sure but they are usually done with bubble gum and ducktape. If you do it do it right.

Whatever you do good luck and use the search on here. Not too many swaps that have not been done or at least talked about.