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Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
Hey everyone. So I’ve been having some seriously annoying fitment issues with my current exhaust system. I currently
have Speed Engineering 1 7/8 long tubes going into a modified Hawks 3 inch y pipe that then merges into a single 3 inch outlet with an SLP Loudmouth 2 “muffler.” I’ve been running these headers for a while, previously upgrading from the SE 1 3/4’s after putting on the Lsa blower. Ground clearance is meh, but I’ve learned to drive the car that way and have been living with it pretty much trouble free for the past 5 years.
Sooooo.. The problem is now coming up since I’ve added the blower and have recently started upgrading stuff to handle the extra power. For one thing I can’t relocate my torque arm. The y pipe is so tucked against the Hawks long tube K member, that a relocation cross member isn’t going to fit the 3 inch y pipe, and it also isn’t going to clear a UMI short arm setup, as the weld in bar passes right in the center of the pipe. Forget about that dipped cross member they offer, that would be deducting another 1.5 inches from the lowest and most scraped part of my exhaust system. I can go for a Umi tail-shaft mounted torque arm, but I’m not stopping until I can at least break my future goal of 9’s, so that really doesn’t seem like a good idea. Best pass with the car right now was a 10.8 on drag radials with a 1.9 60ft, stock tq arm, and slipping clutch.
The other dilemma I ran into when installing my Monster triple disk last weekend, is that the Quicktime scatter shield will not fit between the SE headers. Even grinding won’t get it to fit, its hits the driver side collector and is off from the dowl pins by almost an inch. Of course I can try tweaking the collector over with some heat, but I’ll probably need to redo my y pipe again, and if the current setup can’t accommodate a decent tq arm, whats the point?
Ok thats a crap load of explaining, let me get to the point... So looking at the Hooker Blackheart system, their headers seem to hug the frame rails instead of the bell-housing like the SE headers. This should allow the scatter-shield to fit without an issue. The other good thing is they use 2.5 inch pipes, and with their crossmember, Ill have a **** ton of ground clearance, annnd have a place to mount my tq arm. Only thing I’m worried about is the pipe size.. Oh and the cost.. X(
Will dual 2.5 inch pipes hurt my performance a lot? The car is making around 600rwhp, and I’m planning on blower porting, better heads, and maybee less pulley in the future. I mean as far as everything else goes aside from the price, it seems like a no brainer. But if it’s going to significantly bottleneck performance down the line, I’m not sure what to do. I mean the fact that its duel 2.5’s instead of a merged 3, makes me think that it shouldn’t, and may actually flow a bit better.. But I’ve just been bouncing around forums and the general consensus seems to be that anything over 500 will take a power hit. Anyway thanks for lending me your ears with my long *** explanation. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
According to Holley, you're over the limits of this system. Quite honestly, it sounds like you're chasing every last ounce of HP available...you're no longer in "street car" territory.
Dual 2.5" flows relatively the same as a single 3".
Anything you do at this point to promote HP is going to be LOUD. 3" off of the headers to a single 4" is probably your best bet right now. Whether you choose to dump it before the axle or go over is your choice. Look into the Mufflex stuff if you want pre-made for the I-pipe and over-axle stuff. Then its just the high flow muffler of your choice.
Matt Walter (mw66nova) ran 10s through his 4" setup if I remember correctly, and it was a T56 car with an NA carb'd LS.
Maybe some of the Kooks mid-length 1-7/8" headers would help with your ground clearance issues, and get you around the scatter shield better. Long-tube vs. mid-tube garbage debates aside. My NA 6.0L with a mid sized cam puts down 425rwhp through a 3" exhaust and mid-length 1-3/4" headers, long tubes aren't worth the effort.
Sit down and seriously consider the direction of your car...9 second capable car in traffic sucks.
I'm not questioning any of your abilities, or knowledge in this post. I'm just a guy who at one time chased numbers, and then realized my car was more fun as a DD streetable setup. I've also been involved in racing for over 20yrs and had a nostalgia drag car, and my wife has ran circle track cars for years with her family, so this stuff isn't new to me either.
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
Originally Posted by STREETDEMON
According to Holley, you're over the limits of this system. Quite honestly, it sounds like you're chasing every last ounce of HP available...you're no longer in "street car" territory.
Dual 2.5" flows relatively the same as a single 3".
Anything you do at this point to promote HP is going to be LOUD. 3" off of the headers to a single 4" is probably your best bet right now. Whether you choose to dump it before the axle or go over is your choice. Look into the Mufflex stuff if you want pre-made for the I-pipe and over-axle stuff. Then its just the high flow muffler of your choice.
Matt Walter (mw66nova) ran 10s through his 4" setup if I remember correctly, and it was a T56 car with an NA carb'd LS.
Maybe some of the Kooks mid-length 1-7/8" headers would help with your ground clearance issues, and get you around the scatter shield better. Long-tube vs. mid-tube garbage debates aside. My NA 6.0L with a mid sized cam puts down 425rwhp through a 3" exhaust and mid-length 1-3/4" headers, long tubes aren't worth the effort.
Sit down and seriously consider the direction of your car...9 second capable car in traffic sucks.
I'm not questioning any of your abilities, or knowledge in this post. I'm just a guy who at one time chased numbers, and then realized my car was more fun as a DD streetable setup. I've also been involved in racing for over 20yrs and had a nostalgia drag car, and my wife has ran circle track cars for years with her family, so this stuff isn't new to me either.
Thanks for the reply, alot of good info. I already ordered the hooker kit and it arrived, but I’m on the fence about sending it back or not. With the roll-bar, harnesses, suspension, lack of cats, Im kind of already past the enjoyable street car... That said, the only thing really holding me up is this exhaust. I actually never intended for this to be a drag car, hence the t-56, but damn its fun nailing shifts down the strip with that blower. Now I have an s60 rear, triple disk clutch, 10 gallon ice box on the way, just no room for my scatter shield or torque arm. I came so far already, I feel like I’m in it to win it now. Maybe if I can somehow get cutouts under there at the collectors with the hooker setup, that would work for the track...🤔
But yea I know what you mean with the enjoyable street car thing.. I have to figure out what I’m going to do..
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
Ok so I ended up ordering the Mufflex 4 inch Magnaflow cat back. The Hooker stuff is going back, minus the trans crossmember. Im gonna keep that and mock up my own 3 inch y pipe to fit around it. The torque arm will mount to that crossmember, I just need to order one. As for the bell housing I decided to keep the Speed Engineering headers and try to notch around it. I saw a few notched pics online, and it looks like its just the outer flange that needs to be cut back. Ill be sure to update once everything is installed.
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
I'm in a similar dilema and am also considering the mufflex. I might try the speed engineering 4th gen true dual 3" and fab/rework a y pipe. The system is cheap(ish) $450, and is 300 series stainless.
I've seen your videos and they are great. Any plans to re dyno to see the gains of the 4" over the current 3?
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
Originally Posted by ShiftyCapone
I'm in a similar dilema and am also considering the mufflex. I might try the speed engineering 4th gen true dual 3" and fab/rework a y pipe. The system is cheap(ish) $450, and is 300 series stainless.
I've seen your videos and they are great. Any plans to re dyno to see the gains of the 4" over the current 3?
That could work, and yea regardless there’s gonna have to be some tweaking no matter what route we go. Glad you like the videos👍 and I really would like to dyno it again. Since I put on the blower the tailpipe actually lifts off the hanger under load being its moving so much air, so I really think just going to the 4 inch will free up some power.
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
Originally Posted by LsxMatt
, so I really think just going to the 4 inch will free up some power.
It should free up a ton. I am very interested to see the results. Do you have a panhard rod lowering/relocation kit? You'l likely need it to accommodate the larger pipe over the axle.
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
Originally Posted by ShiftyCapone
I'm in a similar dilema and am also considering the mufflex. I might try the speed engineering 4th gen true dual 3" and fab/rework a y pipe. The system is cheap(ish) $450, and is 300 series stainless.
I've seen your videos and they are great. Any plans to re dyno to see the gains of the 4" over the current 3?
Any idea how much fab it will take to make their true dual 3" fit? Has anyone on tgo done this yet?
My thinking is that the back half should fit up the same in our thirdgens, just would just need to add a few exhaust hangers? Up and under the drive shaft should all be the same as well, so really it is only the area from the headers to the trans cross member that will need to be cut and re-welded? Does this make sense?
Last edited by Sdmodified; 12-03-2019 at 02:09 PM.
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
Behind the axle is identical. The exhaust hangers back there are the exact same positions for 3rd and 4th gens. Its why you can bolt-up a 4th gen cat-back.
The modification that you need comes from the section between the collectors and the axle. That needs to be redone entirely.
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA
Behind the axle is identical. The exhaust hangers back there are the exact same positions for 3rd and 4th gens. Its why you can bolt-up a 4th gen cat-back.
The modification that you need comes from the section between the collectors and the axle. That needs to be redone entirely.
Correct. I am all but certain I am going this route. There will be fab work but no two combos will be the same as most work will have to be custom around various trans and crossmember combos.
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
So I was just revisiting this concept. From looking at this picture on the speed engineering website, would the circled area in blue need to be reworked at all or are 3rd and 4th gens the same under the driveshaft?
Clearly the area between the yellow lines needs to be completely cut up and rewelded. It would be much easier modification if we can keep the portion up to the X section intact.
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA
The area you circled will likely not require any work. 3rd gens and 4th gens are pretty much identical soon as you get to the back half of the car.
The SLP 2otL cat-back on my car is actually a 4th gen cat-back.
That’s what I was thinking! Appreciate the confirmation. I don’t think reworking the front area will be too bad. I am between this or the 4” mufflex system but I am leaning towards going this direction now...
Last edited by Sdmodified; 02-13-2020 at 08:05 PM.
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
I had a 5.3 with a torque storm centri supercharger and it had 1 7/8” RI LTs with dual 3” into a 4” Flowmaster merge, home made 4” catback with a hooker aero chamber in the stock location and a dynomax ultraflow for the tail pipe (so dual mufflers) and it was too loud on the street. I made something like 650at the crank or 500-550rwhp after blower losses and drivetrain. With that the 4” flowed well and I eventually stepped it down to 3” catback to help contain the noise on the street. It def affected power but a 3” flows to a zero restriction to around 400hp, that restriction at 600hp might only cost you 30hp but no way to know without testing it.
I am now turbo on the same motor pushing 13-15psi and I have a 3” DP with electric cutout and then a 3” catback. Going through the full exhaust I loose 2-2.5psi and lots of power and all my turbo whine. Open the cutout and it all come back.
yesterday I swapped on my 4” hawks catback with a vibrant muffler, I hoping the turbo will be quieter than the supercharger and I will get back all my turbo spool with the cutout closed. I’m going to start it today for the first time so im hoping it’s not obnoxious.
dual 2.5” would be restrictive at 600rwhp, your in dual 3” or single 4” territory.
Re: Is the Hooker BlackHeart system a true “performance exhaust?”
A lot of people don’t realize how loud dual 3” are... even a single 4” but big flow comes with lots of noise for the most part.
a big reason for a single 4” is the factory feel, lots of clearance and not needing to do a PHB relocation. I did that last time with my home made 4” and hated it. Doing the PHB relocation affects the geometry big time out back and u have to get the lowering kit for the rear end side... but at that point you are still changing the rear roll center which has lots of affects on the rear handling. I think dual 3” has its place and if your making big power u don’t have a choice but a single 4” will flow a lot and you can I’ll maybe only cost you 10hp over a dual 3” depending on the restriction.
04-04-2019, 06:32 PM
