CamarosRUS

i am swapping my HSR in this winter and doing a ton of work to the engine bay before it goes in (paint and misc. body work in the bay) and one thing im doing is cutting my fuel lines down on my framerails to get them off the framerail and out of eyesight.

now i need to know what fitting to get to attach on the metal fuel line and connect to a straight -6AN hose fitting and how to flare the factory metal lines to attach that fitting...

anyone?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Well, if you have a 37* (an) flair then the easiest way is to use a tube nut, followed by a tube sleave and then flairing the end of the tube, and then you have an AN connection to work with.

I suppose that you can do something similar with a standard, 45* plubing flair and then some combination of adaptor fittings, but that would just be tacky to go from steel to brass plubing fittings to AN adaptor fittings to a hose end...

ede

i've done it with a tube to AN adapter. the tube end used a sort of farrel that just slipped over the line.

Z69

You can put a nut and b/u ferule on and then flare to 37 as Crossfire TA mentioned.
Or since it's out of sight you can get Aeroquip versa flare adapters to go to female AN. Then just get a 6-6 and 5-6 male adapters. In case you don't have access to a flaring tool.

CamarosRUS

well i have a standard double flaring tool (i guess that makes 45 degree flares?) and am looking either to do one of two things (if any work out)

use a tube nut and sleeve on the hard lines and get straight -6AN hose ends [But i need the right flare for this]

or

i wanted to get something like this (i think this is what your talking about Ede) http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...h.asp&x=35&y=6 but this is only good for 3/8" line.

what are the sizes of the two hard lines on the car???

Apeiron

The double flare tool will make 45 degree flares, AN fittings are 37 degree.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

The versa flair and the tube-an adaptors are really only designed for aluminum lines, not steel.

The feed line is 3/8, I think the return is 5/16 or 3/8.

The fact is that it would be totally legit to cut the line and use a hose clamp. I usually flair the end of the hard line a little and use 2 clamps for FI with braded lines, and if it’s somewhere you’re going to see it you can use the anodized clamp covers on the end of the line to make it look pretty.

CamarosRUS

so i cant use the tube nuts and sleeves because i dont have the right flairing tool and the versa flair and the tube-an adaptors can be use only on alumnium tubing.

i checked the fit of my -6AN hose and the factory hardlines and the smaller line is sort of loose. could i double flair the lines slightly and use two regular hose clamps to hold thye braided hose on the lines?? if not what specific FI clamps do i need?

this is becoming a pain...

Apeiron

The return line is 5/16", which would be -5 hose.

CamarosRUS

do i have to use -5 on the return (meaning i would have to buy more hose) or can i use the -6?

also will two regular hose clamps be sufficient?? i plan to flare the engs slightly.

Apeiron

If you're just going to use hose and clamps you'll need -5, which would be hard to find.

CamarosRUS

damn, well now im kinda stuck. where can i find a 37 degree flaring tool? i guess i can use tube nuts and sleeves if i can find the tool.

Apeiron

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

CamarosRUS

got it. next do i need to use one tube nut and one sleeve per line?

and will a -6AN tube nut and sleeve fit on both the feed and return lines???

also am i going to need flare unions to connect the tube nuts and sleeves to the hose ends?

Apeiron

One sleeve and one nut per line. The 3/8" line will take a -6 nut, the 5/16" line will take a -5 nut. You'll need a -6 union and a -5 to -6 union adapter.

CamarosRUS

thanks for all the help. does anyone know where i can find the -5AN tube sleeve and nut and the -5an to -6an adapter? summit and jegs dont carry them it looks like.

Apeiron

-6 to -5 Union Reducer:
http://holley.com/products.asp?product=991907ERL
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

-5 Tube Nut:
http://holley.com/products.asp?product=581805ERL
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

-5 Tube Sleeve:
http://holley.com/products.asp?product=581905ERL
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

jwscab

I did some research on those compression fitting adapters, awhile ago, I don't think you are limited to just aluminum tubing. The ferrule is brass, and the fittings are aluminum. Most compression fittings are completely brass, so the strength is similar. The sealing mechanism is the same material (brass). The only reason they mention aluminum is that most guys building systems from scratch try to save that last 1/2lb and use aluminum tubing, becuase its readily available. I might even go so far and say it might seal better to the steel lines.

I have used them on lower pressure fuel systems, mechanical fuel pump to carb. I don't believe you would have any issues, as long as you didn't strip the threads.

that said, thanks to those guys that posted the tube nut/sleeve/falre tool part numbers, saved those for future reference!

CamarosRUS

aperion seriously thanks a lot man.

jwscab i thought i would be able to get away with using those compression adapters and wanted to do so but they only sizes ive found are for 3/8" and 1/2" tubing so it wont work for me.

this will defenitly be a good thread in the future because knowing how easy this really is (minus getting all the correct parts together) this will be something many HSR users should do. it will look 100x better when nothing is running along my framerails!!!

Z69

Versa flare is not AL only. I'd have to look, but I'm pretty sure they have the same rating as the tubing. ie 3000 psi when used with correct steel.

I've seen Al nuts used on SS in aerospace apps. They needed to save weight. The lines were -20 or something.
They didn't look to have used AL sleeves though.
But at 100 psi or less, I wouldn't worry about al sleeves on steel tubing. The sleeve is just a back up to the flare on the tube.
It's not the sealing element. It just distributes the force made by the nut to force the tube flare against the adapter flare. The main concern in this app would be corrosion due to dissimilar metals.

Aeroquip also has steel -5 nuts and sleeves. But the al is cheaper.
Only Earls has the -5 AL stuff that I've seen.
The Vera flare is cheaper than buying the flaring tool.

CamarosRUS

hmmm well id almost rather use the versa flares to save me the money of buying the AN flare tool. but ive accepted the facte i might have to.

i cant find hard tube adapters (or the versa flares) for 5/16" line...only the 3/8" and 1/2"

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

You’re right about the brass ferrule, but my statement is based on the fact that both used to come in packaging (and I believe their catalog listings) specifying “for use with aluminum line only.”

I don’t believe that either packaging specifies anymore, and I’m not sure about the catalog listings, but I’m pretty sure that the ’05 russle catalog still says not to use them on anything but aluminum.

As far as standard brass fittings… don’t mix them up with AN stuff, all the stuff has 45* seats where all the AN stuff has 37* tapers, things won’t seal. I think that even the ferrules are cut differently. If you wanted to use all brass fittings that would work fine also, my brother did that on his race car, but be aware that the brass compression fittings do not seem to want to seal well on ½” or larger aluminum line (we had headaches with this forever). A lot of fuel rails and FPR’s have FPT threads so that it shouldn’t be a problem to use all standard plumbing fittings.

Weight: steel weighs about 2x what aluminum does, copper weighs about 2x what steel does (brass is a copper alloy, don’t have time to look up it’s actual density, but it will be heavier then steel and aluminum)

Clamping -6 on 5/16… _technically_ -6 should have an ID of 1/16 less then 6/16 (the -# is supposed to be the equivalent of the OD of a thin wall tube with the same ID). In real life, most -6 fits 3/8” hard line tightly and loosely on 5/16”. For a return line it’s close enough, even with normal worm drive clamps. With “fuel injected fuel hose clamps” (slightly different then normal worm drive clamps) it will work fine on the pressure side if you had to (I’ve seen people get away with that setup with normal worm drive clamps and have never heard of a leak).

CamarosRUS

so i have three options again...

use worm clamps or FI clamps directly on the -6AN hose (FREE)

use -6AN hard tube adapters
(are you sure this one http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...=egnsearch.asp will work on the 5/16" line and on steel tubing?) (Saves me about $17 over the tube nuts and sleeves)

OR use the tube nuts and sleeves and buy a flaring tool...

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

You're not reading what I said:

"The right fittings for the job.
Looking for the right adapters to use with aluminum fuel line? Then look no further than these adapters from Russell. Designed to connect aluminum tubing to -6 or -8 AN adapters..."

Z69

I've never used the hard tube adapters and haven't seen them.
I've used brass ferules on SS in a pinch. But it was only 30 psi or so.
I can get the p/n for the -5 versa flare. IIRC it's about $13 for a -5 set and -6 is about $10. Digging around on the Eaton site might turn the #'s up.

And like Crossfire said, you only really have 3 options.
Flare the tubing or not & hose clamps.

- Now you know why people can sell line kits-
My kits are TFE lined hose btw.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Well, that and use the stock ends and adaptor fittings are available from a few sources (try earls) so you can attach any AN bs to it that you want, or you can get creative if you can find a decent hydraulics shop.

TFE is much preferred over standard braded hose, especially on a street car where the smell of gas permeating the rubber liner on standard hose can be annoying.

CamarosRUS

im using regular braided hose and dont care about the smell...will that cause any other problems down the road?

i guess ill just get the flaring tool and do the tube nuts and sleeves. Alumnium tube nuts and sleeves will work on steel lines right?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Rubber lined braded lines are rated for 8years use in contact with petroleum products.

Aluminum tube nuts/sleeves are fine, as long as you flair to the right angle.

CamarosRUS

thanks, i know things will change in 8 yrs