I'm still waiting on the C5 caliper and carrier to compare them.

On a side note, with LS1 content, Monte Carlo LS1 brakes:

 

Front:

 

What model year vettes have the C5 brakes?

I'm shopping around for brake pads. If the C5 pads are interchangeable with the LS1, maybe I'll ask for C5 pads just for kicks to compare prices/availability.

 

'97 and up are the C5s.

Ed

 

OK, I got the C5 caliper and carrier in today (Thanks again Dal!)

There's a slight difference in them but overall they're pretty close. Here's a rundown of the main differences I've seen...sorry, no pics as of yet but I'll get them soon.

1- The C5 carrier uses a M14 x 2.0 bolt like the C4 carriers do, the LS1 uses the M12 x 1.75 bolts;

2- The parallel distance between the guide pin holes and the carrier bolt holes is longer on the LS1 bracket;

3- The distance between carrier bolt holes is almost the same, but just a hair longer on the C5 carrier than on the LS1 carrier;

4- The thickness of the area where the bolt holes are located on the C5 carrier is thicker than on the LS1. I couldn't fit it in between the bracket and the rotor on the brakes I had handy and the LS1 carrier slides in with room on both sides. This is where the different rotor offset comes into play. I don't have the C5 rotor yet but I will have one later this week.

Without pics, I hope you can follow my descriptions. The calipers appear to interchange in the carriers but who knows if they will until I get the whole thing fit up with both rotors.

More later...


Ed

 

One more four wheel LS1 car on the road.

Jerry

 

And the rear.

 

Congrats! You are the 2nd guy I know to have them at all 4 corners, the other is Lock.


Ed

 

Welcome to the being able to stop club!

Thanks again for the fronts Ed. :hail:

 

Whats the advantage of the rear? bigger? or just more effective? Any big issues?


-Steve
1989 GTA

 

For me, I wanted disc brakes on the rear. A Ls1 rear made that a cheap swap. Added bonus of being able to use 4th gen wheels(I went with SS/Zr1 style) and posi with the Torsen. Depends on what your after, for me it worked out perfect. I already had 3.73's and an Auburn Pro posi in my thirdgen rear but Im using that rear for the truck Im restoring.

 

ill be #3 i just need to get off my *** and work on the thing. the reason i switched is because would you want to look at ****ty *** rusty drums behind roh snyper wheels?

 

Do you think the "thickness" issue on the C5 carrier can be helped with a 1/4" bracket (opposed to th 5/16) ?

 

Maybe so, I still have to fit the thing up and luckily I do have a 1/4" C4 bracket on hand.

Ed

 

I will be taking my car to the race track on Friday to shake down the LS1s and put them to a real test. Based on driving around some back roads near my house I should be outbraking Porsches. Stay tuned for the results.

I may be in the minority but I think with the recall kit and an adjustable proportioning valve, the J65 rear discs are plenty of brake in the back. In fact I have had trouble with wheel hop under heavy braking at the track because of too much rear brake. I think the LS1s up front will be a good match for the J65s out back. Of course, putting the LS1s on the rear will not hurt performance any and if your'e swapping from drum rears, want to change gear ratios, or get a Torsen from a 4th gen then it's a good choice.

 

I want the rear LS1's for the e-brake. the J65's never stay adjusted or work that good when they are adjusted.

 

The rear LS1s are indeed cool, but for ease of operation and install on older cars, I strongly recommend the '89-97 LT1/1LE PBRs. They will do the job fine.


Ed

 

Ed,

If you find some time, could you tell me the distance b/t the back of the LS1 rotor and the 5/16 in bracket? Just curious about offset.

thanks

 

Sure but it won't be until Tuesday or so...I'm waiting on my steel order to come in.

Ed

 

I just finished taking measurements on both the C5 and LS1 carriers. The carrier to bracket holes are both 5.05" apart, so those holes are the same. The parallel distance from the guide pins to those bolt holes is 2.15" for the C5s and 2.495" => 2.50" for the LS1s. Doesn't really help without a pic tho...Anyway, the only diference here is the offset distance, so you could run a C5 carrier but you will need to move the 2 center "carrier to bracket" holes. I guess you can also say that you can run a LS1 rotor with the C5 calipers and carriers, all you have to do is move the 2 middle bracket holes out a bit.

Math time:

Take the difference in parallel difference:

2.50"-2.15"=.350"

Move the 2 bracket holes out that much and there you go. Note these holes are also for a M14 C5 bolt vice a M12 LS1 bolt. Also, like I mentioned earlier the C5 carrier is roughly 1/8" thicker than the LS1 carrier so you can't fit it in there anyway. But what you could do (I guess) is fiddle with the offsets and run a larger C5 rotor with a LS1 caliper....

Concerning the calipers, the C5 calipers have SMALLER PISTONS than the LS1s...I don't have a measurement yet on those.


Ed

 

I am new to posting, so bare with me. I want to thank Ed, Luke and ALL the others for their hard work on this mod. I am a firm believer of afordable upgrades.

Since reading the thread, I have already started on this upgrade. I bought the "LS1" parts from a salvage yard for $130.00. I have the new studs and I work at a shop so, turning down the hubs is not a problem. I am, however uncertain or not so confident about acquiring the braket for mounting the caliper braket. Does anyone have a reliable source for these brakets? Does someone make them on the board that can be compensated for their effort? Please let me know. I have already done the rear "LS1" upgrade, I'm ready to be another all "LS1" disc brake member.

Thank You,

Rob

 

I am new to posting, so bare with me. I want to thank Ed, Luke and ALL the others for their hard work on this mod. I am a firm believer of afordable upgrades.

Since reading the thread, I have already started on this upgrade. I bought the "LS1" parts from a salvage yard for $130.00. I have the new studs and I work at a shop so, turning down the hubs is not a problem. I am, however uncertain or not so confident about acquiring the braket for mounting the caliper braket. Does anyone have a reliable source for these brakets? Does someone make them on the board that can be compensated for their effort? Please let me know. I have already done the rear "LS1" upgrade, I'm ready to be another all "LS1" disc brake member.

Thank You,

Rob

 

Sent you a PM...

Ed

 

Hey guys, I wanted to talk about the hubs that we are turning down. I have just recently turned my hubs. I had originally planned to cut the back down like I had seen in, I believe, the C4 brake thread. I have decided not to.

My reason is this, I work at a Auto Repair shop and have for years. I remembered that there is/was a significant problem with FORD Expeditions and removing the front brake rotors. The front hubs sat far in on the rotors. The inside of the rotor hat, over time, rusted and grew rust over the back of the hubs. This basically fuesed the two together. When it came time to replace or machine the rotors, it was next to impossible to remove without a torch or a hammer or damage.

My thinking is that this problem could occur on our hubs. By leaving the hubs thick(or long), I believe that it could help eliminate the possibility of the two fuesing together. Just my opinion. Let me know what you all think. I just want to help perfect the process.


Thanks,

Rob

 

I'm thinking that if you leave the hubs longer like you suggest there may be a slim risk of cutting off air flow to the vanes in the rotor. Now I haven't done this myself yet so I'm not sure how much room is in there. Just something to think about.

 

I turn my hubs down even to the thickness of the hub face, that is plenty. To avoid the rotors sticking to the hubs, just take a SMALL amount of grease/silicone lube and smear it over the face of the hub and inside face of the rotor prior to installing it, it won't stick then. I just don't see the need to leave the extra metal there.

Ed

 

A small coating of anti-seize between the hub and disc should help.

 

Just thought I would post the updated 1LE Prop Valve # for 4 wheel Disk brakes.

it is GM PART # 10164112 Late 89 to 92 valve 1.5M

I got my from dal for $65 shipped.

I figured I would go this route because I am doing the full, front and rear LS1 Swap and I have drum rear now.

Still have to Make the Rear Calipers Pretty like my front ones before I do the whole swap.

 

For all you guys that have or are thinking about painting or powder coating your parts and are wondering about brake dust, here's my experience. After a day at the race track my calipers appear to have hardly any brake dust on them. A few posts ago I predicted that the calipers would get covered in dust; well I guess I was wrong. My carriers took a beating though. They have a good coating of dust and the paint I used (red, garden variety spray paint) seems to be discoloring from the heat.

Say, does anyone know if this thread is the longest on the board? It is up to 6 pages. I have never seen one this long.

 

Hmm...my 'puter shows 11 pages. We must be set up different.

What pads are you using? I just pulled my C4s off my RS and they were failry clean also, just mild dusting and I have no idea what pads are in them...I'm using the same ones that came with them.

Ed

 

everywhere i look i get # 10136840 for the later model one. can anyone confirm which one it is?

im also trying to find a part number for 1le hoses, it appears they are discontinued from gm? just the bolt 10286122 wont work with my stock hoses will it?

 

That must be the updated P/N for the late '89-up valve, the old number doesn't work anymore and that number works fine at GMPD.

Yes, the bolt 10286122 will work with yoru stock hoses, that's what we used on Lock's car. That bolt works with 1LE, LS1, all C4, and C5 calipers. Neat, huh?

Ed

 

got my spindles today, you rock ed. ill get pictures up as soon as i finish the hubs.

do you know anywhere else to get the banjo bolt? any national chains carry them? i dont want to pay $8 shipping for $4 worth of bolts

 

Order them thru Dal Slabaugh. he won't rape you on shipping. I only buy from him unless it's an emergency.

877-448-5451

 

i finally found a dealer that cared enough to check other dealers and i got them now i just need to find a 21 tooth orange driven speedo gear and ill be set

 

I am in the Club Baby!!!
I just finished installing the front LS1 Brakes. Was a very easy install. I took my time and did them on the car. I feel a little silly from my earlier post. I turned the hubs down and realized what I was thinking was way off. The hubs do not sit as far up into the hubs as an Expedition does. Anyway, I do have one problem. I reused the '86 brake hoses. They do not seem to fit right at all. The middle clip at the strut braket no longer will mount to the hose. I just don't see using stock hoses. Ideas are welcome. As for stoping the car, so far I feel a great improvement.

Thanks all,

Rob LS1 @ All Four Wheels!!!:lala:


P.S. Thanks Ed:hail:

 

Hmmm.. Mark's stock lines fit perfect but he replaced them a while back with new ones, so maybe they were a bit longer than his originals.


Ed

 

One badZ,
I have Russell steel braided hoses on my LS1s. They are just barely long enough (they are meant for the stock calipers). I am using the holder on the strut. If you can't find anything else you can always try a set of these hoses.

By the way, I installed my ARP studs a few days ago to correct the problem of the Napa/Dormans loosening. Things did not go well. First off, they were too long for the closed end loug nuts so I had to cut about 1/4" off the end of the studs. Then I decided to fix what wasn't broken and put the ARPs in the other hub that didn't have loose studs. I could tell quickly that the studs were tighter in this hub than the first. Like an idiot, I continued to force the stud in and promptly cracked the hub. I am waiting for my local machine shop to cut 2 more rotors down to hubs, but they won't be done till next week. I will be leaving Thursday to go to Watkins Glen. If I don't have the hub back in time, I will loose $375 in track fees.

Ed,
I am running Carbotech Panther XP 1109 ceramic/metallic pads.

 

I also run Russel lines on my RS with the C4 HDs and they are BARELY long enough, but they fit.

Chuck, I have 2 or 3 sets of hubs in my shop and I'll send you a set if you think you need one for the track...let me know, they can go out on Monday....glad to help. Actually, I have the set just removed from my RS and they have ARPs installed. I'd hate for you to lose that cash.


And I'm using PBR pads on the C4s and EBC Greenstuff pads on my Iroc. The EBCs dust like mad but they grip like crazy.

Ed

 

z28cdoyle, Thanks for the insight.

I am certain I will be ordering new hoses. I am going to order braided lines. I have two questions: First, Should I get LS1 brake lines or 3rd Gen(I have a flare tool for bubble & double flares, so I can make either work)? Second, what brand should I get? I want these lines to fit right.

Thanks again!!

 

I'd buy Earl's lines and use 1LE front lines. They're a bit longer that those used for the stock calipers.

Ed

 

Ed,
Sent you a PM on those hubs.

 

i just got my fronts on today. they look awesome, that bracket is dead on. i did have to grind them a little for calipers clearance. the car stops great also. i still have to do something with the prop valve. it is ok for now though.

 

Hub on the way...

Ed

 

did anyone have to enlarge the holes on the rotors? my hubs are a very tight fit over the studs, and even tighter on the hub itself, but my dad is going to shave a little off them tomorrow. so if any of you are ever in northern illinois, dont go to pdq (persons dedicated to quality ) machining in machesney park. i also asked if they had a hydraulic press to press in the new studs, and he said "yeah, we can do that" but when i show up the next day theyre using a hammer, so i think they might not be in straight

 

When I used a vice to press in my rear studs they didn't go in straight at all. I then threaded on a lugnut backwards and used an open end wrench to tighten them and straighten them out enough to get the rotors on. From that point I check the torque on the lugnuts after I drove around the block, then almost constantly untill they stopped tightening after short trips. I'm pretty sure they're dead straght now.

I would try that before machining anything.

 

Does anyone have a side by side picture of stock and 1LE lines?

 

On the stud issue, I pressed my studs in before turning the hub down. I used Dorman studs. I installed using a 1/2" Impact Gun. I placed a couple of 1/2" spacers on the stud and tightened the lug nut down until the studs were tight. This is how we install 95% of studs at my shop. I would not recommend using a hammer to press the studs in. I don't auto cross, but I do drive the hell out of my car. I'll update everyone if I every run into a loose stud condition. By the way, I did use a brake lathe to turn my hubs.

I would also like to see a side by side comparison of the 1LE vs. Standard brake hoses.

 

If using the Napa studs, DO NOT enlarge the holes. These are a direct fit stud and if you open that hole up any, it will make the studs loose. The ONLY reason to drill the holes out is to install the ARP studs as they need a larger hole. I press mine in with a shop press from Northern Tool, $125 and it's great. If the studs aren't all the way flush to the hub, they may be a little off. I've had that happen with a few of my studs but a little tap with a small hammer took care of it. Also, when pressing in the studs, make sure the knurls on the stud line up with the mnurk slots in the hub from the old studs. This lets the stud press in easier.

I don't have any 1LE lines in the shop but I may by next week, and if I do I'll take pics of them next to stock lines.

Ed

 

Additionally, let me clear this brake line thing up. I have said that "The stock lines will fit." What I mean by this is that using the stock rubber brake line, the metal ring halfway down the line still fits in the brake line clip on the strut as seen in this pic of the line on my car. In other words, a "shorter" line will still fit, but it may not clip correectly in the little bracket. You could always just zip tie the line to the bracket to keep it out of the way.

Ed