Okay first off I have had a lot of people tell me what a shame it is to have a 4 banger in a Firebird. I unfortunately haven't had the time, money, or resources to put on a v8.

I have had this car four over 4 years and I have enjoyed it very much. Well as much as I can being a 4 cylinder. This car has given me great cheap reliable service and I don't plan on getting rid of it. I did alot of the work on this car by myself and I take pride in that fact.


I have had a few people say that I should keep the 4 banger in this car because it could be a collectors item. WHAT??? Is there any truth to this or is this just some idea of a joke? Who would want to collect a IRON DUKE f-body? They made a million of these cars how is this a collectors item?

If this is the truth, than my 84 firebird just got that much more special to me. If not well Im still keeping it. I just recently purchased another project firebird and 84 S/E and it has the H.O. v6 and 5 speed with deluxed tan interior. I would think this car would be more desireable than the IRON DUKE.

I KNOW these cars aren't rare because there have been millions roll of the assembly lines but can anyone enlighten me with any information?

Just a little food for thought!

 

The novelty of the 2.5 disappears after you see a couple of them in person. As far as their collector value? no, probably not. They're unique in their own little way, but unless you find a real fruitloop collector, I doubt someone would preserve it.

 

I agree with Drew. Not to mention the fact that its a four cylinder Fbody. I just don't see a big demand for a slow thirdgen, be it in mint condition or not. I'm not trying to dog on your car, but nobody buys an Fbody of any sort so that they can go slow.

 

I want a 4 cylinder 82-84 Firebird just to have one the shock value would be cool .

plus i could round out my collection

V8 90 Formula
V6 84 Firebird
L4 still looking

but if got one it would have to be a stick
i looked at one with a auto but i want one with a stick
t-tops would be nice too but i'd settle for a hard top

 

There were not millions of 4-banger birds made. From 82-84 there were probably less than 100,000 made.

 

Far less...more like maybe 30k total. Another post on this board gives #s...

Even though they are "rare," as there aren't many around now despite the many that were made, it isn't a collectors item. MAYBE your S/E would be in a small way, seeing as how its an H.O., it was a Firebird only engine, and there is some uniqueness to it. Plus, a V6 'Bird is more acceptable...

But other than the novelty to it, there is no collector value to a 4 banger at all. Then again, a generic LG4 Firebird doesn't either, but that would have more value to a "collector" than a 4 banger would.

But if I was you, I'd keep it for sure!! Where else ya gonna see one??

 

Do you see a large demand for inline 6 1st gens? No.
Do you see 6 banger 1st gens in car collections? No.

Nobody is ever going to pay anywhere close to what they would give for a V8 3rd gen. 30 years down the road when L98 cars are worth 20,000-60,000 (just like V8 1st gens) in good shape, the 4 bangers will command maybe 2-3k if they are show quality perfect cars and people will only buy them to put V-8s in. Same goes for 6 cylinders. Look at any classic muscle, nobody pays for anything but the high middle to top of the line models and they always have at least a small block in them.(the following is just an example, i know there are no 6 banger yenkos) If there was a mint 100% original Yenko inline 6 with every option available or a 68 plain jane 327 RS, people would pay more for the RS. Its just that simple. So slap a nice 383 in that bad boy and go to town. You'll never look back.

 

I think that the 4 cylinder camaro or the firebird will never ever be the collector's item such as the 89 turbo TA, 82 Indy, 87 Iroc L98
or the GTA's.
I've heard different people say that the 4 banger were part of the chevy engineer's 60's drug smokin days come back to haunt them, but in all retrospect I think that a well taken care 4 banger such as Bill's 4 cylinder FB, might not be the race demon, or get the biggest trophy at the car show, will have a niche in the collectable cars, because of their odd ball status.
I would just love to get my hands on a 4 banger up here in Canada, and yet I've yet to ever see one, on the road or the junkyard.
I own one of the fastest thirdgen car's next too the 89 Turbo TA
it's a 87 Iroc L98 , and now I think it would be a hoot to have a 4 banger.

Vance

 

Anybody else used to watch "my classic car" on TNN before they canned it? Remember Dennis Gage walking up to an owner with a car only the owner could love, and Dennis would say "eh this is a '32 Whistlefart with a bear/cat 3 cylinder" and he'd go on to rattle off some facts and kiss the owners ***... And the owner would say "thats right Dennis". Well thats basically the best thing that happens to oddballs. To me buying a 2.5L thirdgen (newest ones out there are 85's, and they're the cheapest of the bunch so you can imagine some of the abuse they've seen as beaters) and fixing it or restoring it, isn't really worth it so that in the odd chance Dennis Gage walks up and humors my love for the car.

If you enjoy them, fine. Its just not somethign that many people will appreciate.

 

Hey, my dad had a '32 Whistlefart...but his was a three-and-a-half cylinder model. It was a great car!

 

IMO The Iron Duke equipped F-Bodies will forrever remain a "Novelty". But don't buy one for future "Collector Car" potential.

 

I may or may not be a collector's item anytime soon but it may.Do you think that all of the classics or antiques were worth anything 10 or 20 years after they were last built?That hasn't stopped people from restoring them and driving them to car shows.I have seen a few straight 6 1stgens at show and you know what,they are just as nice as the V8s for the fact that it's unique and it is there in the first place.People are always amused by the odd ball cars,it's definitely something worth having.

 

ummmmm since when was 100,000 rare

thats not rare at all

thats actually quite a few that were built

i see no collector market for these cars because look at what they epitomize:

80's trash-a$$ beaters

plus they are the slowest of the breed

just my opinion

 

Okay I have heard alot of different opinions about the 4 cylinder in a Fbody.

Now lets put the small motor aside and have you take a LOOK at my car.

Does it look like the 80's trash beaters? If I wouldn't a have told you that my car was a four cylinder what would you guys think was under the hood?


Let's take a poll:

Does my car look like a worthless trash due to the IRON DUKE

or

Does my car look just as good or better than any other firebird youve seen lately?

just trying to find out if you guys really think that my car looks this way or if your giving a wide generalization about the 4 banger fbody.

I would also like to mention that you don't have to have a 4 banger in a fbody to make it a 80's trash beater. Trust me ive seen plenty of them around to classify all thridgens that way.

 

Not trashy at all. It shows exactly what you initially described "pride in ownership". Enjoy the car. Don't swap in a V8. Enjoy it as is. It will forever be unique and a novelty. Lon

 

Ill give ya this, it is a very nice looking car and I do like the seats. But the topic of the post was 4 banger a collectors item? and the answer is no. If I was you and had that car and really wanted to make it something unique and cool, id be looking at turbos turbos turbos. Im sure u have plenty of room in that bay for a nice setup. My old 83 Cj-7 had a 2.5 pontiac motor in it too and there are *some* parts out there for it but im sure u can get just about anything u want for it if your willing to pay to have it made. Just one quick tip, a holley 2 barrel will not fit on ur manifold, even with a spacer, trust me, i tried. That being said, a nice custom tubular intake set up for port injection with a FAST system and a turbo and aahhhhhhhhhh turbo ahhhhhhhhhh i need to go clean myself off. have fun

 

If you like the 4-banger, keep it. If you want to put an 8 in, do it. Keeping the 4-banger in there just for the sake of collectability is going to leave you bitterly disappointed.

Rarity is only 1/2 of the equation when it comes to collectability. Popularity is the other. Classic case of supply & demand. Supply doesn't mean anything if there's zero demand.

 

Finally I took some pictures of my IRON DUKE.

 

another

 

here's a close up of the throttle body. What was GM thinking...?

 

Here is my dad's 83 Camaro that has the faithful IRON duke.
Yeah it looks like a peice, but you know what, all the rust is gone, the car was totally reundercoated, everything replaced and such, new interior, just needs paint yet.
Hey now, don't make fun, there isn't too many cars out there that can spin the tires in every gear, Gotta love that Saginaw 4spd with a nice set of gears.

since 50megs is stupid, try copy and pasting the links.
www.diablohacks.50megs.com/image2.gif
www.diablohacks.50megs.com/image17.gif
www.diablohacks.50megs.com/image18.gif
www.diablohacks.50megs.com/image20.gif
www.diablohacks.50megs.com/image22.gif
www.diablohacks.50megs.com/pict0124.gif

 

hey billsfirebird: Where did you get those seats?

 

I've never seen a 4cyl camaro or bird and never even knew they existed until 5 or 6 months ago when I found this site. I know alot more now after reading this post.

I must say your car looks nice. I'm jealous of your seats and interior. Those are pretty cool colors. Your paint job also looks like new. Personally I'd keep it the way it is. I kinda like oddballs myself also can't wait to get back to the states where I'll become the proud owner of a 66Nova 6cyl with the "3 on the tree" manual tranny. The roof style isn't as cool as the other 66 style, and it's primer brown, but soon as I throw on the black with flames (krylon) it'll be pimpin' (heh heh) If I ever came across a 4cyl for sale cheap it'd be tempting. Then I'd throw sticker on the windshield saying "4 BANGER POWER" or "IRON DUKE" or whatever.

Anyway, nice car. (now just make the engine bay look like the rest of the car )

 

Wow!

Don't take this as a slam!

but Im just amazed! I don't know what the hell
GM was thinking!
the 305 V8 seems to work hard enough to push our
heavy cars down the road. I cant even imagine how what takin
off from a dead stop is like in that car!!!


BUt I will give you this.. You have taken better care of the
car than many people I know who have the 5.7 or 5.0 TPI's


there is a guy at work who has a formula 350 and its
rustin all along the bottom of the doors fenders, and rear queartsrs....

poor car


love those seats.. please let us know where we can
order!!

I want blue accents!

 

Blue bird,

Those seats are nothing more than '93-'95 4th gen cloth Camaro buckets. You can get those at any boneyard that has 4th gen parts...sorry, red was the only accent color like that. No blues available.

Again, its a nice car that I would consider leaving stock...I wouldn't want it personally. My days with my old 2.8 RS proved that the prettiest non-V8 third gen in the world (which mine was a candidate for!) is not as much fun as a somewhat-ratty V8. I can do cosmetic work to the Formula, then have a semi-desirable muscle third gen. Throwing a V8 in my RS would've led to a less desirable car due to a) not even close to original and b) there's nothing special about an RS...that's why I say enjoy this car for what it is, and leave the engine alone. Mess with it and throw in a V8, and all you have is just another old V8 Firebird someone did an engine swap in...

 

AMEN Jason E!

I don't want my car just to be another Firebird. I want it to be unique. That is why I like the small accents I have done to the car....new seats....16 inch wheels....and ws6 suspension components.

Im going to keep this engine in the car until it dies or cost me more to keep it up than buying a V8 and putting it in.

Thanks for all the replys!

 

Hell, I think your car looks great, Bill! And I'm sure if you hold onto it long enough, it will have some collectible value... IF it's kept more or less factory and in very good shape. Just like any of our cars. I mean, a 6-cyl. '66 Mustang in showroom condition is nothing to sneeze at.... still looking at moderate collectibility. Same goes for the smaller-displacement 1st gen 'maros and 'birds. They don't draw the same kind of money as the v8 models, but who cares? If you like your car, that's what matters... and I guaran-damn-tee that your 'bird turns as many heads while you're cruisin' as the V8 equivalent does. Don't let the nay-sayers getcha down, man.... this board is mainly made up of performance-oriented v8- lovers (myself included), so of course the general concensus on the iron duke will be less than appealing. But to the general public, a beautiful vintage sports car is just that... beautiful and vintage. Just my $.02 worth....

 

I see in your sig that you have an 81 T/A as well. I used to own an 81 too. It was my daily driver and I loved the sound of the car! True Duals on Flowmaster mufflers. However, my car was a 301. Very underpowered for that heavy of a car. I sold it to get my girl an engagement ring.

Thanks for your nice comments on the car.

 

Wow.. I've heard of them, but I've never seen a Duke third-gen before.. (Not even in the local boneyards). Thanks for posting the pics..

I've got an 88 Fiero with the 2.5. It hauls pretty good with a 5 speed stick.. Of course it's pulling around 1000 less pounds.


It's not as fast at my 90 GTA , but does it ever get GOOD mileage. Almost 30 mpg in the city... Haven't tried highway yet.

 

rear axle ratio is a big thing to factor in also, if the car had a 3.73 rear with any smaller engine then it can accelerate pretty well too, about as well as a stock small V8 with 3.08 or 2.73 crap gears.
i helped trash a iron duke in an 82 bird and replaced it with a SB400, left the 4 speed sag in it and used a 67-72 GM truck bellhousing, vroooooom !
it is a beater IL ruster car anyways, so oh well. all in the fun of it, he could sell it for alot more with the 400 than with the 4 cyl in it,

have fun,