Volo Auto Museum is selling a 1987 IROC-Z convertable that they claim is one of two orginal 350 TPI cars. They say it from the original owner and has full documentation including the build sheet. Here is a link to the site:

1987 IROC-Z 350 Convertable?

In the photos the car looks pretty dirty for having 44,000 miles. Could it be real?

 

I went to the Volo Auto Museum last summer, along with several other TGO members from the NW Indiana board. I'd have to say that if they claim it's authentic, I'd probably believe what they have. However, I also would never buy from them, I feel that their prices are way over inflated.

 

In defense of Volo Auto Museum, they have been around forever. Their reputation in the collector car marketplace is very high. If the car is misrepresented, the infomation would have probably been conveyed by the last owner. I know that Volo does do a very good job in looking into the backgrounds of cars that they sell or consign.

As for the state of cleanliness on a 44K mile car, all I can offer is that it looks cleaner than a few sub 10K mile cars that I have looked at lately.

 

could be a car that the owner sent to asc when new to have redone. only true way of knowing is seeing the documentaion and vin

 

I had a chance to visit Volo last year and was very impressed with the cars they had. I would believe they did the research to verify that this is the real deal.

 

Who knows about the combo. Do they ever list VIN#'s with their cars? That'd tell for sure.

BTW: Is it just me or are there some other details about this car?

First, the seats are clearly a graphite or black color, not gray as the carpetting on the floor, doors and center console show.

Also, whats with the dash emblem?

 

The plant was very low-tech, even in 1987, and the production control system could (and periodically, was) overriden to produce 'un-buildable' cars for testing or demonstration purposes.

Hand-building cars is time consuming and expensive; if you have all the paperwork, and all the parts, you can just fling it together as it goes down the line. Pontiac built a '90.5 GTA 5.7L 1LE Convertible that way; don't go looking for it, cos the crusher got it five years ago.

Not sure how GM would have justified running two CC1 cars with B2L, but maybe they did it so they would have one to test -- ?

You would have to see the sticker under the console lid to know for sure; you can't fake that easily. The dead giveaway is the KC4 engine oil cooler -- the only automatic car you could get it with was a 5.7L.

Hey, stranger things have happened.

BOB

 

I'm a fan of the 87 IROC-Z's and I think that the car is BS. Too many questionable things, such as that interior that was never available in that color or with that leather/vinyl on the door panels.

 

I think that the story itself is a crock of . They couldnt produce it with a 350 because it would put the car into a higher weight class? What a load. 305 and 350 weight would be minute at most, and definately not enough to matter.

 

if its BS, i still think its a hot ride

 

I beg to differ. The engine oil cooler was available on 305's with automatic and G92 in 1987 and 1988.

I know I have one.

The car in question is a car that someone bought and had converted by ACS into a convertible. But it wasn't a factory car.

The fact that it was converted by ACS makes it as good as a factory vert, but it is still not one of the two GM built. they didn't build any.

 

I called Volo 2x regarding this and they have not returned my calls yet. It's been almost a week since my first call. All factory 87 convertibles had the dash map pocket. Also, with the people on this board, the research that has been done, etc etc, I would again believe that a rare car such as this would be known about. If GM made the car, they would document that 2 existed. Even with the screwed up documentation they have, they couldn't screw up a total of 2!

If Volo researches their cars, I would like to see their evidence of only 2. It's possible that ASC only made 2 350 Convertibles in 87, but GM didn't.

 

There were NO "'87 factory built convertibles" of any Camaro model. They were all ASC's that were ordered exclusively through Chevrolet.

The ad NEVER stated that is was a GM made vert.

"THE BOOKS SAY THE 350 WAS NEVER BUILT IN A CONVERTIBLE BECAUSE THE COMBINATION MADE THE CAR TOO HEAVY WHICH PUT IT IN TO A DIFFERENT EPA CATEGORY WHICH MEANT NEW TESTING THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN EXPENSIVE."

That is what "The Books" say. The same books that are filled with misinformation and/or misleading interpretations by their authors who didn't have ALL of the information to begin with before they wrote the book. It is funny how people consider those books (the horses a$$) as gospel, but GM (the horses mouth) is the one that is incorrect all or most of the time.

The car in question is in fact an ASC with a 350. All of the documentation does check out, as well as there is an "8" is in the VIN. The pictures do not show the true coloring very well, but the car does have the optional Gray Leather Interior that was available. If anyone is interested, I can take some better pictures of the car, as I plan on going there again this Sunday for their All Pontiac Show.

I have sent the VIN to the GM Archive and will post a copy when I receive it to satisfy the BS flag fliers.

 

That is NOT factory 87 interior. (seats and door panels) It has been recovered and redone. What, did ASC change all that too?! I really wanna see the VIN.

 

How is it NOT factory '87 interior and what tells you that it has been recovered and redone? On that car, with that color exterior, the '87 leather interior was available in saddle, red and gray and those are the correct door panels with that trim level.

I will post the VIN when I post the pictures.

If that interior was never available in that color and with those door panels in '87, then you will never find the car in your sig as it does NOT exist.

 

As was already mentioned, the leather interior in 87 was leather seating surfaces. The door panels were a fabric and the back sides of the seats were in that same fabric. The leather interior offered in grey is more of a light grey and not a dark grey. The interior seat pattern and door panel pattern is correct for 87, but the leather color, door panels in leather and seat backs in leather are incorrect.

You are correct in that the ad does not say GM made convertible, but the description was written to lead you down that path.

THIS IS ONE OF THE TWO 5.7 LITER IROC CONVERTIBLES MADE. FULLY DOCUMENTED AND YOU'RE BUYING IT FROM THE ORIGINAL OWNER, A COLLECTOR THAT SPECIAL ORDERED THIS CAR.....THIS IS THE 9TH IROC CONVERTIBLE BUILT AND 1 OF 2 THAT DID GET FITTED WITH THE 5.7 350 ENGINE

He states that the books say the 350 was never in a convertible which is pointing people to the books documenting originality and factory options. He then states that this is 1 of 2 that did get the 350. The description is misleading and deceptive to the unknowing. How can anyone verify this as original if "the books" all say it was never made but the original owner ordered it this way.

They are also trying to get a ridiculous amount of money for this car which tells me they want people to believe that it a very rare 1 of 2 never made cars. This car is worth $6k only. That might also be high.

An original 87 IROC-Z with ttops that was converted to a convertible, with 44k miles and a replaced interior. Sounds to me like this car would fit the modified class at the shows I go to. This is a ripoff and they know it. That's probably why they never returned my call!!

 

Sm just answered for me RECARO. Everything he said is correct, and he has a REAL original leather interior 87 IROC-Z, take a look at the differences if you don't believe.

 

If i take my car to SLP to get it converted to a SS camaro, it doesn't mean it's turned into a rare car.....

Why, because there never was a GM approved 3rd Gen SS......Same as their is not a GM appoved IROC 350 Convertible.....

 

As was already mentioned, the leather interior in 87 was leather seating surfaces. The door panels were a fabric and the back sides of the seats were in that same fabric. The leather interior offered in grey is more of a light grey and not a dark grey. The interior seat pattern and door panel pattern is correct for 87, but the leather color, door panels in leather and seat backs in leather are incorrect.

Your description is only for one of the Leather Interior Levels - Custom B18 + Custom Front Seat YR1. There was also the Deluxe B19 + Deluxe Front Seat YR2 and the Luxury B20 + Luxury Front Seat YR3. The Luxury has all leather seats and leather on the door panels. Like I said, the pictures DO NOT SHOW the true color.

You are correct in that the ad does not say GM made convertible, but the description was written to lead you down that path.

Where would the description lead one to think so? "Special Ordered"? They all were. The ad really should have mentioned that they were GM authorized, ASC built, ordered only through Chevrolet.

THIS IS ONE OF THE TWO 5.7 LITER IROC CONVERTIBLES MADE. FULLY DOCUMENTED AND YOU'RE BUYING IT FROM THE ORIGINAL OWNER, A COLLECTOR THAT SPECIAL ORDERED THIS CAR.....THIS IS THE 9TH IROC CONVERTIBLE BUILT AND 1 OF 2 THAT DID GET FITTED WITH THE 5.7 350 ENGINE

He states that the books say the 350 was never in a convertible which is pointing people to the books documenting originality and factory options. He then states that this is 1 of 2 that did get the 350. The description is misleading and deceptive to the unknowing. How can anyone verify this as original if "the books" all say it was never made but the original owner ordered it this way.

What he states is, what the so-called books would have everyone believe as fact, is in reality incorrect. If some book(s) or website(s) says one thing, and your build sheet, invoice or any other documentation that came with the your car says otherwise, which are you going to believe? The car has all of the documentation to verify it. If you want to believe what a book says, fine. Then my taking better pictures and getting more info on the car would just be a waste of time. It is easy to find out how many where made, but I am not going to foot the research bill for a car I could care less about.

They are also trying to get a ridiculous amount of money for this car which tells me they want people to believe that it a very rare 1 of 2 never made cars. This car is worth $6k only. That might also be high.

An original 87 IROC-Z with ttops that was converted to a convertible, with 44k miles and a replaced interior. Sounds to me like this car would fit the modified class at the shows I go to. This is a ripoff and they know it. That's probably why they never returned my call!!

The price is no more ridiculous than the overinflated appraisal values people are posting.

People can believe what they want from some book, and/or draw their own opinions or conclusions, even though they don't have all of the information in the first place, just as the book authors have done. They usually do. Apparently buildsheets, invoices, or whatever, are meaningless as verification. Personally, with the car being a Camaro model, I wouldn't waste my time with it.

IROCZTWENTYGR8
Scott only has the Custom Leather. There was also the Deluxe and Luxury as I mention above. His wasn't the only Leather interior design level available as apparently everyone thinks.

Dante93GTZ
The emblem on the dash is "SPECIAL EDITION 0009." They were all numbered.

 

If the dash plaque says special edition 009, the car is not a rare car. I can guarantee that the car doesn't have both the 3 in the VIN to designate the convertible and also doesn't have the 8 to designate a 350. This was a dealer optioned car and not a GM authorized convertible. The build sheet probably states 350 coupe with ttops.

Again, GM authorized convertible conversions had a 20th anniversary map pocket on the dash.

In 2002, GMMG converted Z28s into 69 rare ZL1 coupes. They made more than 69, but only 69 cars were authorized to be made. I could take a 2001 Z28 to them and have all the ZL1 options added. It doesn't mean I'll have a very rare 1 of 1 produced 2001 ZL1!

Where do you have documentation or proof about the different leather seating surfaces available in 87?

 

There is not a BS flag big enough for this IROC that's been posted.....

What do you know........EPA weight limits for cars are 8,500lbs

82RECAROTA, are you going to sit there and say a 350 will push a 3rd gen Vert to over 8,500lbs and therefore push the Thirdgen into a different emissions category.......

taken from consumerreports.org concerning weight limit classes for emissions standards....


Once again......Emissions worries for building a 350 vert........

IROCZTWENTYGR8, put the BS smiley back on here, it's needed for posts like this........

 

He never said that it did. He said that "the books" (and the ad)say that and the books are B.S.

 

Recaro, and post the vin already. Do you work for volo?


Now as far as I understand the work could be ordered from GM, on the order sheet, and it was sent to asc if the customer wanted a convertable. If that is correct then how do they order a 350 and a convertable if GM allegedly made them mutually exclusive?

If on the other hand the owner bought the vehicle and sent it to asc on their own and asc put it on their production line, it may have gotten a tag, but not GM certs.

for now, until proven otherwise.

 

Exactly. Thanks for pointing that out so I don't have to. At least someone has comprehension skills. And yes, the books are B.S.

Red Devil

No I do not work for Volo. I do have a lifetime membership though, and go there often. Over the years I have gotten to know Greg Grams pretty well as I had a few cars stored there and we talked alot. He has been a great source for info and who to contact and where to go for documentation.

I happened to see the car the last time I was there with my son and he thought it was odd that vert would have a 350. I told him to send the VIN in to the GM Archive to see what comes up. Then I see this post and offer to take better pictures and check the car and the documentation if anyone was interested since I was going there this weekend.

I also mentioned about the interior, something apparently nobody seems to know anything about or was even aware of. There is more than one interior design level. There is a Custom, Deluxe, and Luxury level, whether it is Cloth, Vinyl, or Leather.



So what do I get for freely offering? B.S. One person ranting at me about some EPA crap that I never said or even agreed with and waving B.S. flags, and another with a STFU. That is where I draw the line. I will not bother wasting my time checking out squat on the car. I don't care about Camaro's one bit. If the car is B.S., I would have surely given the details rather than defending it. The only thing I will post further on the subject is a copy of what the Archive sends. So you all can just wait until then or check the car out yourself.



Scott

You can find the information on the different interior levels in any "complete" 1987 Chevrolet Dealer Album (it will be 2 thick notebooks). If you find one, check out the update bulletins and amendments. You may find them interesting.

 

The 350 had nothing to do with weight, per se. It was all about CAFE. They didn't want the extra weight in the car because it would get less mpg. The 80's was all about CAFE ratings and the 350 sucked up fuel. 1mpg was a big thing back then.

 

I know there are levels of leather/interior grades within the 87 GM lineup, but I am not aware of the Camaro having any options with the leather surfaces. To my knowledge, the custom leather seats was the only leather option available on the Camaro in 1987. Later years were able to get full leather seats, but I have yet to see or hear of any for the 87 Camaro.

As for everyone that's throwing BS flags and whatnot, let's stop. It's unnecessary. The ad lists potential BS and that's what we're trying to solve.

We already have proven that this is not a "factory" convertible based on the dash plaque. Willie has mentioned in other threads where those came from. They were dealer authorized conversions, not GM authorized. Because of this, the car's VIN will show 1 of 2 things. The car came with a 350 and was a coupe or was a convertible and the 350 was added. Based on the dash pouch missing, I believe it to be the 350 coupe that had an aftermarket conversion. We also know that the car can be ordered thru the dealer, and sent to ASC for the conversion prior to the dealer taking delivery. This was an agreement that ASC had with GM. Dealers in the Northeast had similar agreements with Choo Choo Customs modifications. They were not a "factory" authorized conversion, but were dealer authorized. This part of the subject has been resolved. Again, the way the ad is worded leads the public to think this is 1 of 2 GM Authorized 350 convertibles that all books say don't exist. GM did not produce "ANY" convertibles with the 350, however they do exist due to ASC conversions and dealer conversions. The RPO list in the vehicle will confirm this. In the case of this car, the proof is in the VIN. It will not have a 3 to designate the convertible which is what is needed for it to be proven to be a GM Authorized 350 convertible.

I can see where you will defend Greg on this as he's a friend, but you might want to inform him that the ad wording can be misleading and has stirred up trouble on a board that is more knowing than the general public.

I'd also like to learn more about the leather options available if there were any. I'll post a poll.

 

Post. The. VIN. HERE. You would've satisfied "the BS flag fliers" a long time ago if you'd simply posted the VIN right here so we could all see for ourselves. All the secrecy about the VIN =

You seem to be so confident about the car, so why not post the VIN? Actually, I'd rather see a PICTURE of the VIN than to see it typed out.

- 89_IROC

 

Wandering back to the actual vehicle... real or not (er GM or not)...

What is said vehicle worth? Is it rare? Certainly its not worth more than it was originally sold for, but what would be a fair asking price? To me, it looks like a nice overall vehicle.

 

Alright slight misunderstanding........apology if i took it out of context

However if there are flawed in their research about EPA standards and such, then i must question the rest of their research........

 

Oh my gosh - I had no idea that this post would generate so much controversy. That was really not the intention.

As I mentioned in my second post I had visited Volo last year and was really impressed with the cars that they had. When I saw this car on their web site I personally would have to believe that they did the research to verify the authenticity of the car. Especially after seeing their place and knowing of their reputation.

With the current available information I would have to agree with Scott and that this is not a GM authorized convertable. The ad however I believe would lead most people to think that was especially since there is a lot of emphasis on being fully documented, etc. That is certainly the impression that I got.

I would love to be proven wrong on this assumption though and learn a little more about history of these cars.

Chuck

 

Scott,

there was only one leather option availble. The one that we both have.

there is standard vinyl, coth interior that looks like standard vinyl, custom coth, and custom leather.

This is straight out of the 1987 brochure, what the other people are saying is total

That car is a customer converted 87, not authorized buy GM

 

If nothing else....they really need to take that stupid antennae off the truck lid it looks horrible.

 

I called Volo this AM and was told to leave a voice mail and someone would call me back. Well, they called me back and told me the car is sold. Whoever bought it unfortunately has sucker written all over his face and doesn't know it. I asked them for the VIN in my voice mail and they didn't give me the info when they called back. Three times I asked for the VIN and 3x I got zilch. Just proves my point that the buyer must beware and do their homework prior to buying a car in todays "clone" and fraudulent market.

 

Also, labrat, I was to believe there was only 1 leather option in 87, but I wanted to leave the door open for dispute. If anyone can show me proof that the other seat options were available in 87, they can also show me proof of the 86 350 and the 350 5 speed cars!!!

 

Posting a VIN on any message board is absolutely worthless unless it is on a buildsheet, invoice, RPO label, or a picture of the VIN plate as you mentioned. And if it is a picture, it better be high resolution so one can see if the pixels have been manipulated. I have seen it before where people on this board have claimed they have this or that on there car that never was and photoshopped a digit of the VIN on a title, RPO code on a SPID label, and one even shopped a RPO code on a cowl plate to try to prove their car had Recaro seats. Regardless of how good it may have looked, the pixels never line up.

Try backing the thread up "a long time ago" (gee, barely a day and a half), and read it. I offered to take better pictures and get more info on the car if anyone was interested, as I was going to be there this Sunday anyhow. So far, nobody has even said so much as, yes, I would be interested in seeing pictures of whatever or could you check or see if it has this or that or what does the documentation say. Instead, it was as if I wrote the damn ad or is selling the damn car. I have no interest in, or even care about any Camaro's whatsoever. The picture and info offer is off the table, period, case closed. The B.S. flags are great sign of appreciation for someone willing to go out of their way. Thanks. I won't make that mistake again.

It is amazing how people always expect something for nothing yesterday, especially when it requires absolutely no effort or cost on their part, and then complain and moan when they have to wait a day or two because they are so impatient.


FLYNLOW92rs

Apology accepted. The books are at best, a collection of generalized information. There is still plenty of information missing, not to mention misinformation added.

labrat

Considering the brochures are printed long before production is even starting on the car (usually about 2 months), it proves nothing. Don't forget to read the small print on the brochure, something about substitutions...yadda, yadda, yadda. Another reason I told Scott to also look at the Dealer Album and also the update bulletins and updates. It has more information than any brochure will as well as being up-to-date.

If you want to go by what a brochure says, an '82 Recaro Edition Trans Am does not exist, because no '82 brochure has it.

Now that I see your post, I edited my reply to you, due to your little 350 comments.

Too bad the car is sold.

I told you where you can look for the information on the interior. What you do with it now is up to you. You say you want to learn more about it. Well here is your chance by doing some research YOURSELF, which I am sure you are not going to do. But I challenge you to do it anyhow. Let's see if you are up to it.

 

I would base my sole assumption that this is the 1 of 2 aftermarket 350's from 1987 converted to a vert by ASC (or some other aftermarket conversion company). A true GM vert with such low miles would still have it's trademark pouch. It's really too bad they mislead you in the ad. If they have all the proper documentation, they should have provided pictures in the vehicle ad.

 

I would have liked to have seen a pic of the VIN and also the RPO sticker. I dont know why everyone is arguing against 82Recaro so bad. He says there are three different levels of seats for the leather, the rest of you say there are only one for the leather. I haven't seen any evidence provided here so far that proves either side although if you have access to it, 82recaro is pointing you where to go to find out of hes telling the truth or not. Why doesnt someone just go look it up already and stop this stupid argument.

Compairing this discussion to the 5 speed 350 myth is totally absurd and insulting. It seems that most people in this post are fairly 3rd gen intelligent so tossing out an insult like that is pretty low.

 

documentation can be easily faked, i have seen an '87' vert with documentation to support.

however, it was a 90 - 92 style TBi and there were 91 date stamps on the seatbelts.

 

A few things to note...

82recaro has taken comments regarding the ad, personally. he is acting as if he wrote the ad and has been defending it from the start. Comments have been made regarding BS to statements in the ad. It's time to relax.

His last post attacts me for my comments on the seats. Again, if their is proof of the multiple leather seat option in 87, then show it. I posted a poll and so far all results are showing only 1 type of seat in 87. Speculating and commenting that I'm not going to research this was not necessary and again shows how he is being defensive about this subject. I "DID" post a poll to see what others might have, and I checked all the sources that I had access to at the time. I do not have the books he mentions. He also seems to be defending a subject that he has mentioned many times in this thread that he doesn't care about. My knowledge of Firebirds is limited because I don't care about them. We know what interests us. I am interested in Camaros!

If other seating options were available for the Camaro in 87, and some were sold, then why has no one seen them or no anything about them. It's possible the subject is similar to the 91 RS coming with the TPI (I think that was the story). It was available, but nobody bought one. 82Recaro, just relax. Nobody is attacking you. You are allowing this discussion to get blown outta hand by your defensive attitude.

 

Hey Scott,

Thanks for the post, this was getting mighty hostile.

The bottom line is that car in question is a car that ACS converted.

But it was not originally bought as a convertible from a Chevrolet dealership, mainly because it does not have the 20th anniversity map pocket that ALL 87 Camaro verts had.

the Vin No. would have told all, but amazingly never found it's way into this thread.


If ACS was still in business and I took my car there and had it turned into a convertible, would it suddenly be worth more, because it was one of the few 87 verts made with a 305, auto, and G92.

I don't think so.

 

People got so annoyed with this because we are trying to convince some to believe the truth. That car was not factory and I'm personally getting tired of seeing people try to pass off cars as something they're not. 87's are my favorite and I know them very good since I want one and have been looking for one for a long time.

In 87, you had a Base interior and a Custom interior option. (Custom is the official wording, not Deluxe or Luxury) That was IT. On top of that you had the leather option for the Custom interior only. There were 4 different colors and only the black interior could not be had with leather. The leather DID NOT cover the entire seat and there were NO leather door panels. The panels were cloth just like on the back of the seats. SM's car has this int. and the only leather option there was. For some reason, someone chose to recover that cars' seats and panels at some time, with a darker color then was ever available from the factory too. Besides this we all know that GM would not send out a 350 to ASC to be made and the VIN most likely would have shown that the 8th digit was an F and not an 8. Unless of course it was originally an L98 T-Top car that a previous owner wanted converted, which is probably the case. Is it a coincidence that the VIN or RPO's were never posted or that calls about this car never revealed the VIN/RPO's? I think not. I bet it doesn't even have RPO for the the leather option and instead it was also "added" by the owner, but it was not done correctly. If you look at the seats closely you can tell it's a recover. Regardless, someone put alot of money into this car to make it the way it is, you'd think he would have used mats or cleaned the floors a little better. BTW, you guys with 87's and leather, do your front seats say CAMARO on them? I know all Custom Cloth cars had it and I thought they should even with leather. This car doesn't.

 

The lower portion of the seat back says Camaro in it on mine.

 

Exactly. I wonder why this car doesn't have this?!

 

One last post on this bogus car.

Here in La Crosse currently for sale is a 1969 Camaro convertible pace car for 25,000, same as the car in the post.

I know which car I'd rather take the chance on. Much as i like third gen's, give me the 69 for the same price, even if it is not real either.

 

As much as I love thirdgens I use to own a 69 convertable pace car and if I had $25,000 I would buy the 1st gen over the thirdgen. Sorry but that was one of the most fun cars I have ever owned. Once again I love thirdgens but would not buy the fake.

 

This is what I get back to? Damn I missed nothing huh?


All we need to know is here. 4 points asked in my post (and STFU and post the VIN already is not the same as me coming in and sayin STFU. I was being facetious) and the only thing I get back is 'I don't work for Volo'

Anyone have as copy of the order blanks for a car from '87? Geez this wasn't a hard thing to get. VIN just post it. Or just tell us you never got it, or that it doesn't match crap.

Hey IROC what's it on now 3 or 4 years you been looking?

 

4 1/2, will going on 5. But I'm currently "looking" at one that I might want.

 

When will Rich be getting the info to you? I'm eager to hear the details on the car.

 

In about 2 weeks, I'll PM you.

 

What's this? You finally tracked one down. PICS!