I know that this is a long shot, but I was wondering if anyone had pictures of an early 80's Third Gen with the Pontiac Turbo 301. Story goes that this was going to be the engine for the Trans Am when the Third Gens came out in 82, but politics got in the way and the corporate small block won. I am positive that none of these cars were sold to the public, but I would be willing to bet that at least one or two engineering mules were built.

In fact I remember seeing some of the early Year One Next Generation catalogs that had a picture of a Black and Gold 82 TA with Turbo 4.9 on the hood scoop (which proves nothing but still quite interesting).

 

I own an '80 Indy Pace Car with the 301 Turbo (4.9) motor. What did you want to see?

 

I have a old book featuring prototype 1982 firebirds and trans ams'.One pic shows a gm designer going over a prototype 82 trans am's rear wing and right there where the licenses plate should be is a sign saying "turbo".

 

I was hoping to find a picture of an 82 TA with the Turbo 301. The oddities really interst me. Here is the picture from the Year One catalog that got me started on this. I dont know if you can make it out, but the hood scoop reads "Turbo TA." I guess the proper question should be "What is this?"

 

It looks like that 82 turbo trans has clear parking lights?
I also want to know if they made any 82 turbo prototypes.

 

 

Oh that's a under the hood shot of my 81 TurboT/A.

 

There were running '82 T/A's with the Pontiac 301 Turbo in them. NONE made it out to the public.

In '83 they were supposed to put the Buick 231 Turbo in the T/A, then it was supposed to happen in '84... Well we all know how that went.

 

Yeah, it finally happened in 1989 Then Buick got to show the world what they were made of

John

 

I e-mailed Year One to see if they had some info on the picture. I actually got a response:

"The photo in question is a 1982 Trans Am. The photo did come from Pontiac (GM), so it probably is either a preproduction or press release photo. Unfortunately, we do not have any information about the car. You may want to contact Pontiac about it or maybe Pontiac Historical Services has some info about it as well. Sorry we couldn't offer any more information about the car."

I am very impressed that Year One actually took the time to respond! Most businesses don't make much of an effort to answer non-business questions.

 

this is a cool topic. but i am going to venture a guess here. i would doubt the turbo ta would not have had the turbo 301. i would say it would have been the carburated turbo 3.8 that many G-bodies of the time were running. the carburated turbo 3.8 found its way into regals, riverias, monte carlos, and maybe others that i dont know of. again this is just a guess, but the turbo 301 was terrible in stock form, i cant imagine they would have kept on producing it when they had the turbo 3.8 that was at least decent. just food for thought.

 

Well,
Even Pontiac stated they were planning on using the Turbo 301 engine in the 1982 Trans Am, hence the off-set hood budge.
It's talked about in a few Firebird books as well.
In 1983, Pontiac had some cars running around the desert proving grounds with the Buick V-6 turbo, as stated by Hot Rod magazine back in 1983!

George

 

WOW this is interesting I knew nothing about the 301T in 82 neat stuff :hail: always cool to learn something new :lala:

 

I have a few pictures of '82 prototypes with the turbo badging on them but no full car shots and none of the engine.

 

Alex,
You got pictures?
You never told/showed me!
You holding out on me?????

George

 

I've got some pics too. The story goes, and I'll try to keep this short, There was a power struggle in GM, mostly from Chevy....There was a deadline for Chevy to anounce it's powertrains for the 82 introduction. They were holding off so, when the deadline passed, PMD would get screwed out of the Crossfire and have to use the LG4 as its top engine. (Chevy already admitted to using the LG4 in its Z) That way Chevy had the advantage, so they thought, over PMD. PMD was getting tired of the runaround from Chevy, so they started using 301s in there pre production cars and mock-ups, so they would have a car to issue in 82. However GM became "corperate" in 82. Therefore PMD HAD to use corperate engines. PMD pushed the issue with management on the 13th floor to get answers out of Chevy, and they finally conceded that they were going use the Crossfire. So PMD got thier T/A engine. There is a TTA 82 pre-production car, or should I say, there was. I don't know if it still exists. I do have pics of it though. Instead of saying "Trans Am" on the right rear, it says "Turbo" I'll see if I can find the pics.


-D-

97 Trans Am WS6
84 Trans Am WS6
84 Trans Am convertible
84 Trans Am KITT

 

How much faster would the 82 ws6 trans am be with the 301 turbo the best trans am offered that year?

 

oops, I meant to write than the best trans am offered that year

 

Well, some computerized number crunching that I have seen estimates that an 82 TA with a Turbo 301 would run the quarter in 15.0 with a top speed of 121 mph. Although this is just speculative, consider that the model used the 200 hp figure from the 1981 production car. Roumors indicate that the 1982 version would have had fuel injection and a larger turbo.

15.0 does not sound impressive, however consider that the top TA and Camaros of 82 were running mid to high 16s.

The turbo 301 was not a horrible motor, granted it was fairly limited but it did quite well for itself considering the times.

 

Oh yeah, lets see the pics man!!

 

A lot of people think the 301T is junk. It was even in Hot Rod's or Car Craft's (can't remember) top 10 worst engines of all time...but it does have hidden power. It was really de-tuned from the factory and all the emissions crap didn't help either. I talked to a guy that has an '80 or '81 TTA that is running 11's with the stock engine. He gave me a whole list of mods he did and he was susposed to have a write up in High Performance Pontiac...dont know if it ever happened. I think he was even working on getting into the 10's. I was trying to find a descent '80-'81 TTA just because I wanted to have a built up 301. I think it would have been sweet just becasue people hate it or swap it out for 400's and stuff. It's cool to be different

 

No kidding, I would think a Turbo 301 would kick some butt... Ithought it might be an issue of detuning. But a 301 is about like taking the Buick 231 and making it back into a V8... Imagine what Buick would have done if they left the 3800 a V8 and then made it into a turbo car. I bet that would have been alot of fun

As a note the 3800, previously the 231 engine was a V8 back in the 60's that the choped off 2 cylendars. Although by the time the 3800 came into being the engine had changed greatly.

John

 

Not to get off the thirdgen part of this tread, but I installed NOS into my 1981 Turbo 301 Special Edition Trans Am.
It helped alot for off the line, and it is a blast to sit there, just roasting the rear tires! I had lots of people change their minds against racing me!
I never took her to the track, so I don't know how much faster in the quarter she would be, but I'm guessing right around about .8 from stock!
I must have gone thru 20 fillups for the bottle!
Just think with this engine in a thirdgen, AND using NOS!
I had also heard that Chevy said that Pontiac could use as many crossfires engines as they wanted. But then held alot back.
This is a great tread!!!

George

 

I would say if good parts were available for the Pontiac 301, it would make some nice horsepower and torque. It has the same 4 inch bore and 3 inch stroke as the Chevy 302. We all know the 302 was no slouch!

 

Part of the 301 T's poor performance reputation came from the fact that it had the unenviable task of following the W72 400. The cars could match just about any other car of the day, it just could not live up to the past.

 

That's a very good observation. Considering the times it was really ahead of it's time. The idea was there , but could have been execuited better. Back in those days the 301T was supposed to be running 9psi, but in reality most were at 5-6 psi at best... I'm sure for warranty reasons. So that was one leg on lack of performance out of the gate. Back when you could get a 301T in tune it ran better 1/4 mile times then the 403 olds and was on the heels of the 400. It would have been interesting if they would have developed this more just to see.

 

Another problem the 265/301 had was that it was designed with the "idea" of how cheap can we make it and still use existing Pontiac tooling.

Thin wall cast blocks, low decks, siamesed intake runners, and crank shafts with only two counter weights all meant that the 265/301 design would not be cost effective should HP and torque ever be an issure. The 301T engines had a lot of improvments over the standard engines to make it withstand the Turbo.

 

Well,
Back in the days the 301 was concieved, it wasn't mainly for being cheap or to be cost effective.
With the mpg being the big factor forced upon all the car makers by the federal government, Pontiac didn't have a small V-8 engine.
So, Pontiac engineers shaved off all the weight they possibly could, to come up with this engine, and still be smog legal. Not bad, with putting on a turbo, and getting 200-210 horses.
Yes, the PSI was low, but back then, Pontiac was the only car company making V-8 Turbos! Some cars came with adjustible waste gate rods from the factory too! My '80 Indy did, but my '81 NASCAR and '81 Special Edition did not!
When I took my turbos in to rebuild them at Turbo City, they offered to give me one. I decided not to, for keeping them original.
Kinda hard to compare it evenly with other engines, when other engines rev higher.
On the whole, I think Pontiac did good with their final product!
I'm sure that if Pontiac was allowed to market the 301 Turbo V-8 in the Trans Am, it would have ruled! After all, wasn't the Corvette in the early '80s only rated 200 hp?
Chevy won it big, by getting GM to force Pontiac to accept their engine! No way could Pontiac compete with the Z-28 or the Corvette! Although Pontiac did in '89, by using the Buick V-6 Turbo in the 20th Anniversary Trans Am!
Even the big Corvette mags did heads up testing with the Corvette vs. the 20th TTA, The TTA won hands down! What did the Corvette mags write? The Corvette was a better buy! Ha! Right! Almost 10 grand more! For a slower car that only could hold 2 people!

My take,

George

 

BTW!
Welcome ColdGTA!
Nice to see you over here!

George

 

301 T never reached the full 9 psi boost mostly because the Turbo used was a little undersized.

 

\


Actually that's not true. They are capable of 19-20 psi. They didn't go that high because the adjustment of the wastegate. In stock form you can get about 12-13psi, but after that you will need some exhaust work to get more psi. You can only produce so much when the exhaust is not getting out fast enough. You guys are bringing a tear to my eye talking about the 301T. Kind of have a soft spot for them.



George I've been here for a while. Where you been? Hven't seen you at T/A country for a while.

 

I thought I recognized the list of cars from somewhere!

 

Hi ColdGTA!
Well,
Let's see............
Been to the Los Angeles Auto Show for Press days.
Saw the parents and family.
Laughlin, Las Vegas. The list goes on!
Was just out there (Los Angeles) a few weeks earlier, helping the parents, and go out to lunch with 82FirebirdTA at Texas Loosey's!
Hit a few junk yards, and brought lots of parts back home!
Working around the house still! I never finished unpacking things, and now I have a ton more to go thru!
Selling things on ebay, like a 455SD NOS distributor for over 800 bucks!
I have fired up the 20th TTA every few weeks! May take it out to the local cruise night here!
Seems I'm home every two weeks, for just two weeks!
I love being retired!
Hope to catch up everywhere sometime soon....................

have a good one,

George

 

coldgta whats your 301 run in the 1/4? just how fast have these cars been made in second gens?

 

Got a buddy that runs low 12's with 400lbs of ballast in the trunk. Set a new NHRA record for his class that still stands. Don't know what mine will run as I have not tested the new combo yet. I'm shooting for low 13's or high 12's in FULL street trim. We'll see. My set up is a little hotter(better wheel trim and cam) than Neil's(record holder), but his car is set up for all out drag race only. No sway bars,soft shocks slicks, skinney front tires,etc...