Hello all, I'm new here to posting but visiting for quite some time. I'm no stranger to Pontiacs but I'm looking to purchase a 3rd gen T/A of the 91 or 92 vintage.
Anyhoo...I need some unbiased opinions on a car I've looked at but can't come to an arrangement with the seller and I'd like to know if I'm unreasonable or if the seller is unreasonable.

Here's the specifics; It's a one owner '92 convertible T/A, TPI car,auto in the dark green color.Tan leather with all the usual options,most of which work except A/C. The car has 98,000 miles with 6 of it's 14 years driven in the northern snow belt areas so there is some rust on the floorpans,minor but probably need some attention.Exterior is wearing about a 8 year old paint job and it already looks like it needs a repaint, it's a 20 footer at best. The wheels have typical corrosion and there is a little bubbling on the bottom of the doors and rear lips of the 1/4's. The top has two homemade stitch repairs and the rear window is somewhat cloudy. Interior looks like it's been vacuumed but that's it,it's dirty looking and has never seen a good detailing for sure. The driver seat needs recovered as does the upper back seat too. Weatherstrip is all faircondition but if it were painted it would need to all be replaced as it's not worth trying to save, but usable for now. It drives fine and seems to run and shift fine, of what little I drove it. Nothings been altered or molested, it's just a car to him that he drove for many years. Oh, the muffler has a hole and needs to be replaced and it looks like it'll have to be from the convertor back too.
From this info (if it's enough) what should I expect to be paying for this car?

Thanks, and W72 is for the fabled(?) T/A engine in my 77 Can am.

Yes, I looked there and NADA.com and got figures a full $1000 apart. I need info from folks who are entrenched in 3rd generation cars and see them "sell" everyday.

bump...

How much is he asking? Sounds like the car needs quite a bit of work, which means you'll be spending a lot after the purchase.

The car is fairly rare, but with all the work needed, and without seeing pics, I'd hazard a guess of no more than $3,000. This is based on my experience in buying two fairly rare '92 Birds this year, a Formula and TA, both 350 TPI cars and one with a 6 speed, paying $2800 and $4000 respectively.

I suppose convertibles might be more expensive than hardtop or T-top cars, but that's my ballpark estimate.

It would be a little helpful to see pics, but you did a good job of describing it.

From my experience, a third-gen that runs and drives excellent is a rare find. However with everything that needs attention as you described I'd say keep a hard limit of $4000. There are NICE cars going for a grand more than that on this site and they aren't hard to find in autotrader or ebay either.

Hmmm...I'm at $6200 and he's at $6800, so based on owners here were both out of line.

What I've given you guys is the worst of the worst about this car. See I have a pension for going overboard on upkeep and restoration and maybe someone else would look at this car and say "Nice! I'll drive it for years and not do anything to it"

Nada.com is high at $6900 and KBB.com is low at $5700, so that's why I think we both ended up so high.Both are private party values in fair to good condition.

As I mentioned it's a 20 footer and I've seen worse cars place in local shows, but that's not how I would present it.

A few reasons I'm attracted to it is 1; It's a 91-92 banshee front end! 2; It's relatively low production numbers 3: My wife wants it... Now me? I'd just as soon have a T-top car and she wants a rag top.

So what do you guys think about the NADA and KBB values? over inflated? or closer to what they go for? I've watched them on e-bay for a year or more and some nicer and the same have sold for about that money or a $1000 more and there have been some that get listed for $10,000 reserve and never get that close so I don't know what to think?

I'll post some pictures and feel free to be blunt as hell about it.

a couple more pictures...

sorry...bump....

Thanks for the pix - helps a lot. did you carfax it? If it's wreck-free according to carfax, that's no sure thing, but at least it rules out some problems. If clean in carfax, seems like you could get a good deal with $6200 or even a little more.

Woah!!! Don't even begin to pay that! I bought a VERY NICE '92 vert T/A for $5,500 with a little over 100k on it.

I mean, my car looks extremely good, no rust, original paint, clean interior, etc. It draws attention at our little local cruise-in every Friday night.

I saw a nearly perfect car EXACTLY like what you're thinking of buying on ebay a few months ago and it sold for $5,800. It was in Arizona, but about $400 shipping and it would cost the same as what you're trying to buy this car for. And it was nearly perfect. 87,000 miles and no work needed to be done AT ALL except the paint was faded on the spoiler. I had a friend that went and looked at the car for me and he said it was really nice. And it was a desert car ... no rust at all!

Here is my car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT

It didn't meet the reserve price, but I struck a deal with the guy for $5,500.

I saw a identical 92 TA at a show last weekend that was completely original and had 20,000K miles on it. I think that looks like a decent buy

yes people place too much faith on KBB/NADA.

The vehicle is only worth what you will pay for it.
I got my 89 T Top GTA for 1500. The guy had it listed at 3500.
I know he wanted more, but I told him straight up what I thought it needed and what those parts would cost.
He agreed and the price dropped like a rock.

That engine compartment is pretty dirty.... That means to me that the owner probably doesn't take much pride in doing preventative maintanence type repairs.

I'd look real close for oil and coolant leaks. They can take a lot of work to fix. It probably needs all the various fluids replaced by now too.

If the exhaust is shot a new system can be costly.

If the struts and shocks are original they aren't cheap to replace either.

What about the brakes, do they need work too....?

I think that the NADA prices listed are for cars that are in very good condition.

This car looks to be in fair shape, but it sounds like it needs some work. Maybe pay him what he wants AFTER everything mechanical is in good shape.

My vert was obtained for $2800. Here's what it looked like after paint:





NOT a TA, NOT TPI, NOT leather interior... All things I envy in 91-92 models.

It's a desirable car alright but even with a minor amount of rust, I would hesitate paying over 5K. If the top is on it's way out, deduct another grand.

Based on the responses I think I need to move on to another one. This car is definitely not a passion for him, but rather just a car. He didn't abuse it and based on the documentation he has he took it to the dealer for every little thing that went wrong with it. The top was replaced in '94 under warranty and I saw some service records for intake manifold gasket replacement. He has every oil change receipt since new, so he took care of it, in as much as he would have taken care of a Sunbird or something else. That being said I think I would be paying the high end for a car that needs about $900 right out of the gate to make it presentable. And then paint a couple years down the road.

He's defintitely not a "car guy" and has no idea what a little rust means to us.Nor does he know what a cat back exhaust costs. For what it's worth the bottom of the engine is dry as a popcorn fart! No leaks from engine or transmission.

None the less, I will speak with him on Monday, but as of now I'm going to reject the car.

That's what I would do. $6800 should buy you a 40-80k mile car that's been cared for alot better than that car. Sure, it's pretty like you said from 20 feet, and it's a vert, rare. etc but that engine compartment speaks volumes.

If I were to buy another one, I'd buy one from someone who is a "car guy"...

I paid $3,500 for my car. It was kind of a mess when I got it, but all original parts, I know as it was purchased when brand new and then driven primarily by my Sister. (I drove it that first day too, and said, if you ever sell this car I want it!!!!)

Another $10,000 invested has got it to where now it only needs a $3,500 paint job to be a really sweet car...

The car is Very Fun to Drive!!!! (And quite a rare Camaro...)

Honestly 6k+ is far too high.

I would pay TOPS 4k here.

Okay, so I begged off the deal in an e-mail. I know, crappy way to do it, but none the less he replied that he understood and to check back with him if I want to re-negotiate. So that's cool. Maybe in a month or so I'll see if he's open to another,much lower, offer. Or I can just keep looking elsewhere too,hell, Carlisle is coming up in 3 weeks I'll just take $ with me.

Thanks for the advice. I feel like I was spared a BIG mistake.

Yup 4k is about it for it, especially if it is a 20 footer.

Yes, the car is probably worth 4k, but it seems the
tpi cars hang around 5k or 5500.

Also, it seems to me that tpi verts are selling for a little
more than they were in the fall.

Did anybody else notice last fall around October - early
November that cars didn't sell very well. Then after
Thanksgiving they started back up (buying for Christmas?).

If the fall gets hear and you haven't bought a car, maybe
you will get more car for your money!

Okay, to my fortune or my peril I ended up striking a deal with him for $5600. I now own a '92 T/A convertible that needs a bunch of attention. But mostly cosmetic stuff. I does indeed run very well but is a dirty pig under the hood and inside.

Something that amazes me? Why do people suffer with sacked out hood struts? He used a piece of re-bar for years to prop the hood up. One of my buddies with a low mile IROC does the same thing only with a used snowbrush?

I mean they are cheap to buy!

Congratulations on the purchase! Keep us posted with what you do to her.

I guess, if you consider 20 bucks a piece cheap. I put a pair on my '86 and 2 years later they were bad again.

HEY, CONGRATS ON THE VERT!!!!!!!

WELCOME TO THE CLUB!!!!

I am VERY happy that you got this car, since it is obvious that you are going to care for it like it deserves.

I wish you could have talked him down more, but I have been in your shoes and know what it's like to REALLY want something.

Keep us posted on the progress!!

And, Klortho, if you think $20 is an expensive part, you might not need a thirdgen.

It is when they wear out in two years, the original ones lasted for almost 10. However, I have owned a third gen since 1987 and replaced many many parts, so I get piddley when parts wear out quicker than they should.

i live in buffalo,ny so i know what bad rust looks like and does. i have had to get rid of many cars simply because they are rusted out salt buckets. what state did it come from? hopefully it wasnt a ny car. you should remove the interior check for rust damage underneath the carpets. where i live, they use so much salt that you track it into the car with your boots, it soaks into the carpet and does damage that way. remove the trim pieces in the trunk, check in rear inner wheel wells. if it was driven in the winter it should also recieve a good steam cleaning underneath. powerwash it thoughly, get any salt that might be stuck in the car out. good luck with this car but i wouldnt have bought it knowing where it was driven. my car came from north carolina, never seen salt. the only rust at all on my car is extremly minor, i found minor (barely noticeable) surface rust on the floor pans from dirt, rocks, stones and everything else being kicked up under the car from normal driving. i coated it with POR-15 in thoese areas to keep the moisture away. everything else is like brand new on my car, underneath, pinchwelds, shock towers, and rear wheel wells all in excellent condition. i also lifted up my carpets too see what was underneath. its spotless. my point is if it came from the rust-belts you have your work cut out for you.
i have a 1989 camaro RS 305 w/146K, newer engine dont know millage on drivetrain. runs solid, and uses no oil.i paid 2,200 which some of you would think is alot of money, but where i come from i appricate a southern car and the crap it has been spared. i dont care too much about the millage, when the car starts to get tired, i will rebuild it. engine, trans, and rear end are all replaceable, the body is not. hopefully the drivetrain will last long enough for me to pay the car off.

I've replaced my hood struts 3 times already. The trunk struts once. I will keep replacing them when they go bad, no big deal. I want my hood to stay up on it's own. The trunk struts I should have gotten the ones for the rear wiper, next time I will. That's just part of the bad design of the hood struts. As far as the underhood look, spray it down with simple green and let it sit for a while. Rinse it off with a garden hose and repeat. Then close the hood and run the engine to dry it out. Simple green does an excelent job cleaning and getting rid of grease and oil problems. I do that every 6 months or so and it keeps the engine compartment looking good with very little effort.