I was thinking the same thing. In these days of 300+ hp V6 engines, and 400+ hp V8s, a bunch of TPI owners arguing over which of these stock engines is the "top dog" is kind of like the Three Stooges arguing over which one of them is the smartest.

 

Here's my thought on it;

As far as why people ordered 305 automatics when 350 automatics; Its beyond me. Probably a money thing.

IMHO, the only reason to buy a 305 was because of the manual transmission... and the fact that they are just basic SBC motors meant that if you knew enough about it, you knew you could easily put a 350 in it if you wanted one.

 

I did not accept less performance. I accepted less straight-line acceleration. Acceleration, as any enthusiast knows, is just one aspect of a car's total performance envelope. Two other aspects of my car's performance - handing and control - are enhanced as a result of my choice. I am faster around a road course or autocross with the setup I have than I would be with an L98/auto. How is that less performance??

Even the "less acceleration" that I accepted is marginal, if you believe the magazine published ETs for the two setups, which are close enough that they can be offset by driver, traction, or weather. Per Car Craft's January 1991 1LE test: 305 = 14.78 @ 93.85 mph, 350 = 14.31 @ 96 mph. All of the "seat of the pants" stuff in this thread makes for good bench racing, but .47 seconds does not make a significant difference in the real world. In the kind of racing and performance driving that I do, there would have to be a much more significant power difference to offset the inherent disadvantage of an automatic gearbox.

Like I said, acceleration is one-dimensional. There is a lot more to these cars than just how they go in a straight line. Check my sig and you'll see that I used to have one LT1 and two LS1 Fourthgens. Compared to a TPI, these cars were extremely fast in a straight line, but were totally unsuited for a road course in stock form. The suspension tuning was too soft and the brakes were marginal, but what really killed them was that they were AUTOMATICS. I vowed that I would have no more automatic transmission "performance" cars.

Your statement was that people bought 305s because they were cheaper, "end of story." My point is that there is often more to the story, and you shouldn't make assumptions about other people's motivations. Cheers

 

And I still believe that my statement more closely matches the average person that bought these cars new. Just because it doesn't apply to your personal experience doesn't mean that it didn't apply to the majority.

 

Perhaps it does apply to the majority, or perhaps not. I have no evidence either way. Do you?

But "apply to the majority" is not what you said. You said "end of story" and "cut the crap and the result is all the same" and "we know the truth, why debate it?" Certainly sounds to me like the words of someone who thinks their unsubstantiated opinion is the definitive and only answer.

 

Thankyou very much! There's much more to third gens than strait line performance. The vintage Ferrari GTO had a 3.1 v8 and about 220 hp. One of the smallest 8's ever built. Maybe someone can find a way to put a 350 in one of those LOL

 

That's one of the reasons I now own a Thirdgen (specifically the 1LE I have) instead of a Fourthgen or any other car. The chassis was set up well from the factory for all-around performance and handling. While I have owned other good handling cars - I had a Porsche 944 for a while, which was phenomenal - I've not had a car that handled this well while being affordable and durable. The Porsche was too fragile and required way too much maintenance.

Car & Driver named the Camaro Z28 as the best-handling American car around 1983-1984, and if I'm not mistaken, the IROC was one of the Ten Best Cars in 1985. Although they have since been eclipsed in handling by newer designs (not from GM though), these cars still have a lot to recommend them. Personally, I think people who set their Thirdgens up for straight-line performance at the expense of handling are missing out on one of the best aspects of these cars.

 

I don't have any evidence beyond looking at the vast majority of the cars that were built.

It's my definitive opinion. It's up to the reader to decide if my opinion is any more valid then anyone else's. With threads like this, nothing short of a survey of original owners 20 years ago is going to come up with a definite answer. What we can do is theorize based on what we know. Just from looking at the cars that were built, we can theorize that most people cared more about the look then the true performance. As the performance level and price tag increased, fewer people bought the cars. That's all the evidence I need to formulate my opinion.

 

Same reason people buy a mustang with a six instead of a gt. COST
Why did the guy that bought a Z28 w/350 not get a Vett?

 

Ford has done a great job with "MArketing" the new mustang over the last few years.

They are everywhere here from many v6's to a few GT's.

Plus the price is about 10% cheaper than a new base camaro or a base challenger.

FORD's marketing has won this battle for years, that is why the camaro went away in 2002.

Never owned a Ford but they are nice daily driving cars.

Talked to a Chevy salesman the other day and it looks like GM is shooting themselves again.

The Z28 is suppose to come out next year I think as a 2012 model at a price tag of close to $60k. with close to 600 hp

At that point you can get a nice new vette for the same price.

Don't now if he was bs'ing me but he said the best bang for the buck is the Camaro SS for under $33k for a base 1SS and up to $44k for a fully loaded 2SS.

Also in 1984 a fully loaded cost over $25k and a fully loaded z28 would cost about half that. It is all about the $$$.

 

And the Mustang for the last ten years was a well, let me see now; a 4.6L ?? Now for I believe for 2011 it is a 5.0?

 

I am not disagree with you but yes it is a 4.6 and that type of V8 draws in the average consumer who does not want to spend $45 to $50k on a Roush, or a higher priced 500+ hp V-8 mustang. These cars are for the hardcore Mustang nuts.

That is way new v8 GT's go for low to mid 20k because IMO 90% of today's drivers do not care what they drive or take care of their car.

We are the 10% who are enthusiasts who love our cars, enjoy driving our cars and enjoy showing them off.

FORD has prounced on this and sell I am guessing over 100k mustangs every year for the last 45+ years.

Trust me I have a friend who I have know about 5 or 6 years. He bought a 93 mustang GT vert and just recently an 89 GT hardtop. Very nice cars.

Well, he came over the other day to check on the new Z28 I got and loved it.

We went for a cruise and I opened it up. He thought the LG4 auto was a fast car and had great pickup.

This is what I am talking about, he likes the mustangs and if he wanted to, he would buy a new GT.

THAT IS WHAT FORD HAS HAD SUCCESS in, getting the everyday guy to buy a low $20k GT, get the girls and impress friends.

For us F-body people, we take that a step up and want the handling, HP, Torque!!

Just my $.02!!!

 

Did I say anything about "puny V6s" or reference TTAs in any way, shape or form?

I was referencing the fact that people can circle jerk all they want about 305s versus 350 versus whatever else...but if an engine puts out better output than the other one its being compared to, people need to accept that its likely the better engine. I made no reference to V6s, TTAs, or the like.

 

It's amazing what people want to argue about.

How about more esoteric subjects....(also trying to keep it thirdgen related LOL).

Who did land at Roswell? - L98 or LB9 driving aliens? A4 or MM5?

Were the drawings at Nasca done by a Thirdgen with an L98 or LB9 (thin about the cornerning)?

Where is the **** gold? (hidden in a Thrdgen somewhere, but where to look? LB9/5-speed; LB9/A4 or L98/TH350)?

These are mysteries that may yet remain unsolved for generations to come, BUT.....the real mystery is "Why did people order these cars with 305's when 350's were available".

Where is Leonard Nimoy when you really need him.

 

How about we just call this thread finished!