I know, way back in the day, Willie told me how rare his '87 Z28 TPI 5 speed convertible was...like 1 of 35 or something like that.

Well, near my house is a "bank repo auction" for an '87 IROC convertible with a TPI 5 speed...needless to say, an interesting combo. I stopped by in the Z to look at it last night, and it appears to be all there, and already had a "restoration" done on it. I use quotes because while it has a new top, new paint, new exhaust etc., the undercarriage has some surface rust, the nose doesn't quite line up with the fenders and the hood, and it appears the seats have been recovered in aftermarket vinyl. It has proper '87 door panels for a base cloth interior, but the proper-patterned-reproduction fake leather seats (I say this based on me staring through the driver's window with a flashlight...graining looks odd, and there's no "camaro" embossed on the seats). My guess is that the previous owner threw all this together to make it look nice, because it has the better custom-cloth-style bucket seats.

The dash isn't cracked, everything else seems to line up, and if its a G92 car it seems to be a VERY rare car. Odometer shows 10k, so I assume 110k is the mileage. Now that the RS restoration is near completion, I'm on the lookout for another third gen. I wanted a low mileage t-top 350/G92 5 speed 305 car, but this car is a fascianting example to me, being an '87 Vert TPI 5 speed.

I don't know if I'll be able to drive it or not, being a bank repo for some unknown reason. Its for sale in a used car lot near my house, and I haven't talked to anyone yet. I'm considering throwing in a $2,000 bid...if I get it, great...if I don't, I move on.

Any help with production #s is appreciated...I don't expect to be able to break it down any more than the 744 quoted in the White Book...

 

I can tell you this,
in 1987 the only way to get a "Factory" Camaro Convertible was with the LG4 with the Automatic or the TPI LB9 with the Manual. You could however purchase just any T-top car and have it drop shipped to ASC to be converted for a small fee...

I am not sure where Willie found the information on his Convertible, but keep in mind he did not have an IROC, I want to think it was a Z28 with the TPI.

Willie where are you??? Scott, you spoke to him last... why not fill us in.

John

 

The majority of the 87 Z28 convertibles were IROC-Zs so the rareness Willie was referring to was in relation to the Z28. Most people buying the convertible were also looking for a nice cruiser, so automatic was the tranny of choice. While GM didn't keep records of option combinations, I would assume that of the 744 Z28 based convertibles, there are not a lot of 5 speeds. The number is obviously still only in the hundreds (max) as most convertibles were IROC-Zs and there were only 744. If this was a Z28 convertible with the 5 speed, I would say, "Jump on it!"

 

I'm fully aware Willie's is a Z28, which adds to the sheer uniqueness of it. I just wondered how he was able to break it down so well! Whatever happened to Willie anyway? He was always a great help to me on here back some time ago...he even sent me a cool VHS tape I still have with some footage of his Z28 and his s/c IROC that I know he sold some time ago...

IIRC, he also took the time to photocopy not one but TWO editions of "Camaro: The Third Generation" for me! I also have those still as well.

With respect to the car, I'm not sure what to do. If I put in a low-ball bid, I won't get it. Earlier, last month I almost bought a green/gold 25th RS, and chickened out because I didn't want yet another TBI car. This one being a TPI stick, and a vert '87 to boot, fascinates me. Just wish I knew more about the history of it.

After doing one resto on a car I have far more tied up in than I can get for it (although my RS has $4k in various mods to it as well), I don't want to do that again. I'm not nearly as worried about that with this car, because even with 110k on it, I imagine this car will be worth serious money down the road if done up right. I'm torn...do I hold out longer for a lower mileage one, or do I FINALLY buy the damn IROC I've wanted since I was 5 years old...the one I've been crabbing about owning on here since 2000!!

Never considered a vert before, but its growing on me fast!

 

Sounds very interesting, Jason. What color?

 

Hi Charlie

Maroon with silver striping. Not sure what color the interior is SUPPOSED to be...its currently the questionable grey vinyl seats with black door panels and carpeting...I assume black is the proper color. And actually, that answered one of my own questions then...if the original color inside is black, then it has to be cloth from the factory, because they never had black leather in a third gen...

I know this kind of takes me off my G92 coupe path, but a possible G92 vert? I've never even seen a stick vert of any year in person before. I'm going to run the RPO tag on Thursday when I get some time off, assuming I can easily see the car (and the RPO tag is still there).

I've more or less decided now that my dad has decided to keep his 6k mile '02sunset orange Formula rather than sell it to me, the time has come to add to the garage It just amazes me how hard it is to come up with the one I want...the variety of third gens out there is so diverse. This is the fourth one I've seriously considered since last Fall (the first was when I walked away from an L98 '87 hardtop because of the impending implosion in the car market, potentially affecting my job, as Charlie knows...), and its nothing like the other 3 (the L98, an '86 LB9 TA with 32k original, and the aformentioned '92 25th RS with 83k)....unlike with 4th gens where there was 1 V8 with a given year, there's just so many variations...

 

Willie guesstimated his car at 1 of 35. He took known options and quantities and ran a theoretical calculation. If you are on the fence about this car, I say buy it. There weren't many LB9 5 speeds made, let alone in convertible form. A full restoration on this car could potentially yield a good return down the road.

Did you see the 110k mile 87 Z28 convertible 5 speed on eBay recently? The asking price is more than the $7500 bid on the car. Willie knows this car and we talked about it. Same color as the one you're looking at but with gold trim.

In regards to Willie, he's been busy with his "Mustangs" as he sold the white IROC-Z awhile back and the convertible was parked at his mothers house. He just brought it home and found the typical fuel pump issue. He's also looking at new tires for it. He lurks on the board from time to time. Yell for him and he might hear it.

 

It does seem like a cool car. Unless it has some dark little secret of course. Maybe get us some pics to look at Jason.

BTW, who's Willie?

 

He happens to be one of the moderators here on the Convertible forum and the History forum... nonetheless, he is often spotted with a bunch of wild mustangs and not so often with his Camaro Friend... He rarely comes around these parts any more... Sad really, gone to the dark side and all...

"Luke... I am your father"

John

 

Its funny you mention the "dark secret," Charlie...because this car is hiding several

I went to go look at it in the daylight today...I'm gonna have to pass. If anyone here is interested in the contact info for the dealer taking bids, I'm happy to pass it along. Because of...

1) The undercarriage having SIGNIFICANT scale under it (rear impact bar is literally almost GONE...the overspray from the respray appears to be all thats holding it together ). Who knows what's under all that scale once I take a grinding wheel to it. I was shocked to find holes (albeit small ones) in my driver's floorboard in the RS when I gutted the interior back in March. A windshield leak caused it to rust from the inside out...the underside looked great!
2) The car used to be bright red, not maroon. Spots around the windshield, door moldings and gfx tell the tale. And the respray is starting to lift in spots due to improper prepping. It needs to be completely stripped and re-done again if I was to keep it.

All told, I'd be in this car for over $10k when I'm done...assuming I won the auction at the $2k I was willing to spend on it. The best things about it physically are a non-cracked dash pad and a new top. For $10k, I found today on AutoTrader a white '90 IROC vert with 49k, and a 23k mile '90 IROC vert in red for $12,500. Those are far more my speed...

I love the rarity of it, and the M5...but its more than I want to deal with. If I didn't already have the RS as my "third gen driver" for summer cruising, I'd buy this one, make it 90%, and have a helluva neat cruiser. But I really want a car-show piece like Scott's or Charlie's IROC. This one will take far too much work to get it there...

I'm quickly learning as time goes on, these cars really fall in two categories...those that have been driven, and those that have not. There are VERY few in between...and those that are that I've found lately (TBI RSs, 305 TPI/AT IROCs) simply aren't what I want. I did a 1,000 mile search from my zip today on Hank's Helper (a GREAT search tool BTW), and exactly ONE IROC out there right now meets what I want.

For $14,900, 700 miles away, there's a 39k mile maroon '87 IROC L98 with t-tops, full documentation with the window sticker...everything. And its sold. I was hoping I wouldn't have to spend $15k to get what I want...but I just might. By this time next year, I want one in the garage. I'm giving myself 12 months to find it

okfoz,
I figured that was the case with Willie I know he got a GT500 some time ago...

 

poor willie... I just do not know what we will do with his wayward ways...

John

 

I've tried changing his Avatar and title, but the system wouldn't let me!! I figured a little peer pressure might snap him out of it. He is working on the car, but his knowledge of thirdgens doesn't require that he use the boards to fix his car. As mentioned, he visits the boards, mostly as a guest, so he may see this and respond.

 

Sounds like a money pit. It'd be one thing if you could take a rough 3rd gen, throw a bunch of money at it and turn around and sell it for $20K. Our hobby just isn't there yet for most 3rd gens.

I'm kind of in the same boat with my '83. Between my custom bent exhaust $$, new struts, strut bearings, shocks, springs, Wonderbar, new (correct) window switches, etc., etc., etc., etc.... I've already got more into it than I could probably sell it for. Oh SCREW IT!!!...I've had lots of fun fiddling with it, and seeing the car continuously improve.

And I'm actually considering another one. Lord help me. I may have to sacrifice my pretty mint SVT Contour if I do though. We'll see.

 

My best guess is that there were 200-250 1987 Factory Convertible 5-Speeds built, and half of those are probably gone by now.

Here's some information that Willie shared with me a few years ago:

1987 Chevrolet Z28 IROC Camaro
By numbers, the 1987 Camaro convertible is the rarest. Only:
263 Sport Coupes Convertibles and
744 Z28 Convertibles were built.
These cars came with the "20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" map pocket:
1) The ONLY third gen Camaro to receive a map pocket &
2) Only the convertibles were given the anniversary logo.

To verify this car, the sixth digit of the VIN should be a "3" (for convertible).
Many customer owned Camaros were converted to convertibles by ASC, the same company who performed the "factory" conversions. These cars would display a "2" in the VIN (for coupe). Also, these cars were serialized by ASC; the serialization being placed on a plaque on the dash. Although these cars look identical to "factory" convertibles, they are not as collectible as an original.

Specifics:
The IROC-Z was an option package on the Z28 (for 1985 - 1987). Most of the 744 Z28 convertibles that were built have the IROC-Z option. Because the convertible is considered an option (RPO Z08) as well as the IROC-Z package (RPO B4Z), Chevrolet has no record of how many of the 744 came with the IROC-Z option. Conversely, no one knows how many bona-fide Z28 convertibles were built either.

The Z28 convertible had only two driveline combinations (unlike it's sister coupe):
1) 305 LG4 (carb) with automatic transmission &
2) 305 LB9 (TPI) with 5-speed.

On the Z28 coupe, all four combinations were available:
1 & 2 above plus;
3) 305 LG4 (carb) with 5-speed &
4) 305 LB9 (TPI) with automatic.

The four-wheel disc and engine oil cooler was only available with the IROC-Z option.

Speaking specifically about the 1987 model year, Z28 convertibles (with and without the IROC-Z option) were offered with only two drivetrain combos, the no-cost base 305 carb (LG4) with mandatory automatic and the optional 305 TPI (LB9) with the no-cost base 5-speed. The G92 was an option only on the Z28 with the IROC-Z option and only with the TPI / 5-speed. This got you the 9-bolt Borg Warner with 3.45 gears in lieu of the 10-bolt with 3.08 gears. Let me emphasize, this is only true for 1987.

Rarity:
In order with #1 being the rarest (by production numbers):
1) Sport Coupe with the LT option (only 1 verified to exist),
2) Z28 (only 12 verified to exist -- of the 12, only 2 with the TPI/5-speed -- one of the 2 is mine!!)
3) Sport Coupe
4) Z28 with the IROC-Z option

The most common Z28 convertibles (in order of rarity):
1) IROC-Z with the 305 carb/automatic driveline,
2) IROC-Z with the 305 TPI/5-speed
3) IROC-Z with the 305 TPI/5-speed and with performance axle ratio (RPO G92), which includes four-wheel discs and limited-slip.
4) Z28 with the 305 carb/automatic driveline (10 verified), &
5) Z28 with the 305 TPI/5-speed (2 verified)

All of these cars are collectible, considering they were produced on a very limited basis AND the fact that they are the "unknown" anniversary Camaro. GM never made a formal announcement of this car, unlike the 25th, 30th and 35th anniversary Camaros. That's because of production difficulties with ASC (unable to mass produce initially). GM had forecasted producing 5,000 convertibles for 1987. They fell far short with only 1,007 built. It's a keeper!!

All 1987 Camaro convertibles received the "20th anniversary...." designation. The base engine on the Sport Coupe and Z28 was a 305 carb (RPO LG4). The TBI (RPO L03) replaced the LG4 in 1988. So technically speaking, there are zero 1987 Camaros with the TBI. Here's an interesting fact: In the convertible, the base 305 LG4 engine was produced only with the optional 4-speed automatic transmission. None with the base, no-cost 5-speed were made.

The 305 TPI (RPO LB9) was optional on the Z28 (with and without the IROC-Z option). And speaking of transmissions, this engine was available only with the no-cost 5-speed manual, ZERO 305 TPIs with auto tranny were made. Remember guys, this engine/tranny combo info is true for 1987 convertibles only, not coupes.
--------------
Willie

 

Little late to the party, but found this thread fascinating! Many thanks

 

What made me laugh was that in July '09, I claimed I gave myself 1 year to get my "show third gen." By June '10, I had bought my IROC AND my Trans Am...which doesn't need nearly the work the subject IROC vert did, and has 1/4 the miles on it.

Not as cool as a convertible IROC, but this thread reminded me how much better of a car the Trans Am is. For anyone who's curious, I met the dealer that won the auction...he paid $2,500 for the IROC. I sell him most of the wholesale trades I don't keep. He cleaned it up a bit, put it on his lot for $5,500, and its long, long gone.

I wonder if the person who bought it figured out they had a real diamond in the rough...

 

Might have to change the Lt number to 2.
The previous owner of mine didn't know what he had.