hey guys Im new to the forum. Spent a few days looking thru and reading all your advise and taking notes.
I recently bought a 1984 Camaro Z28 with the 5.0L 305 H.O engine and 5 speed transmission. The car is CLEAN! 76,5** ORIGINAL miles verified by vehicle report. It has the T tops. I am attaching a link to ebay pictures and they are pretty accurate, in other words they dont make the car look better than it is. The care is really clean. Anyway I have to insure the car for a fair value so was hoping I could get some advise from all of you since you seem to be very in depth with the 3rd Gen camaro.

Please give any and all good and bad comments about the car and tell me what you think it is worth. It was originally bought New in North Carolina then brought here to Ohio a while back.

Let me know
The link is for an ended auction but that is about the only way I can think of to get the car seen.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Also what is the difference in the 305 and the 305H.O is it just the cam?

 

It looks clean, not 100% original or extremely low mileage, but nice. From a buyers perspective I'd say $3,000 to 5,000. Early cars, and carbed cars, just never have gone for big bucks. As an owner looking for an insurance pay out that would cover buying a similar replacement, I'd pad that $5,000 number a bit. Finding a 1984 Z28 in that condition isn't exactly easy. They made over 100,000 84 Z28s, but they've always been used up like canon fodder.

The HO had flat top pistons, a better cam, better exhaust, and better gearing. There were some other minor differences, but those are the big ones.

 

I had the local Antique appraiser look the car over and her didnt just pad the 5k mark he REALLY padded it. I have the original Radio and steering wheel. That pretty much puts it back to 100% original with a few bumps for those god awful orange heater hoses some dummy installed LOL. Thanks for the heads up.

 

I don't know how much the appraiser padded the number, but insurance replacement needs to be higher than the purchase price due to many variables. Time is money and looking for a replacement should not be free to the insurance company. Also, any travel expenses to get the car should be accounted for. If that car were mine, I would insure it for $8k right off the start and go up as I repaired the car and replaced the "funky" stuff.

 

Actually it's the seats that really kill the look... Vinyl was only offered on the high back buckets. The custom seats would have been cloth to match the door panels.

Also the lug nuts are aftermarket (wrong), the instrument cluster is wrong (looks like a later speedometer, and earlier tach), and the rubber donut that holds the shifter boot up closer to the shift **** (also wrong, it should be leather wrapped) is gone. In general the outside looks really good, judging from the condition of the interior, I'd say the outside has probably been repainted. The interior just needs to be restored to match. New carpet (faded/worn), new console (alarm LED hole?), new door panels (faded/worn), new headliner (warped backing board), and factory style seat covers, would make it look a lot better.

What you need to keep in mind is that by the Thirdgen years, people were already looking at the 60's muscle cars with nostalgia. Many people bought thirdgens and just stored them, or drove them on nice days, figuring they'd be worth a lot. There are plenty out there that have been preserved, which keeps the value for restored cars, or rougher/high mileage cars, down. A 75k (maybe) Z28 which is one of over 50,000, is more of a driver then a collector car.

I wouldn't feel bad detailing that car and taking it to cruise nights or small car shows. It's just not going to pass a white glove test.

 

In today's market, I would think the car is worth $4,500-6,000, depending on how badly someone wanted it. Certainly, having original pieces helps the value. The only thing keeping it back from being worth more is the mileage. Drew is correct that the early carbed cars don't bring the money later TPI cars do.

However, don't assume all of them are worth less than their later examples. I remember your exact car, in black with 18k miles, pulled $11,500 on eBay about a year ago. Enjoy your new car...it looks like a nice, early example.

 

That's actually really close to what I had in mind when I said "pad". Obviously a seller is NEVER going to get close to that. But when you're trying to replace a specific car, you'll seldom find the deal.

 

Thats a damn good looking car, especially for a '84. One thing that looks off to me is the paint being THAT nice. My '83 was repainted in '92 and it doesn't look THAT good, and has 20,000 less miles on it. Of course the paint could be original...........but I doubt it. $4000 - $5000 seems about right.

 

I agree with that too. All 3 of mine are insured for about $2-3k more than they're ultimately worth, as there are costs involved in replacing them.

 

I gave 4k for the car a week ago. I had the clutch replaced because of vibration when letting it out. Damn people that dont know how to drive a clutch smoke the fly wheel learning LOL. I have $4500 in the car and it was bought for my son "13 now" and I to tool around and make all the 13 year old girls think he is the coolest LOL. I just wanted a Maro from my days in high school so I probably over paid for it a touch but like someone said it depends what a buyer is willing to give. It appraised at 12,500 for replacement cost should something happen to it. The kid thinks its going to be his first car. I doubt that but I wouldnt mind passing it on to him one day when he understands the value of the car not only in money but the era it was built and the times we had back then. Those were the days. Im thinking something like an 2000 crown vic as his first car. TANK!

 

oh forgot to ask as the mechanic I took it to did the clutch, presure plate, throw out bearing, plugs, wires, cap and button he mentioned it sounded like it had some cam work in the past or it had a miss. The bigger cam they put in these 305s did it give it a slight lope?

 

Not really... All of the factory cams are extremely mild in general terms. Pre-87 F-bodies used a typical flat tappet hydraulic cam, so any old "RV cam" or $80 Summit special drops right in.

Probably best not to give a car like this to a kid... Early thirdgens are quite a bit more forgiving to inexperienced drivers then the later ones, but still it's a rear wheel drive car with enough power to get in trouble in a hurry. A 2000 Crown Vic is probably actually faster, and potentially less safe in a collision...

What you paid is a fair value, maybe a little high, but certainly in the ballpark.

 

I love the 83-84 z28s, something about the understated silver gfx, I love that colour combo as well. Those seats totally kill the interior for me though. If it were me I'd have to get them redone in original style fabric.

 

Actually I think for once a "modern" V8 car came up in discussion that ISN'T faster than a third gen These are definitely slower...I think they're about as quick as an LO3, or maybe even a tad slower.

Based on what I've seen rednecks do with them in demolition derbys, I think he'd be pretty safe in one!

 

LOL Jason!

 

Be careful... In the old days you could get banned for saying "L03" and "quick" in the same sentence.

 

Good point...believe me, I understand the fact that LO3 and quick are mutually exclusive terms

I'll never forget the first time I wound out my RS with the tach fixed (for years I never realized how far off my tach was, until I found the thread about the tach fix for '90-'92 tachs). What I thought was 4500 was really about 3500-3600. I thought "wow, this isn't so bad after all." My wife, sitting next to me, said "that's it?"

She owns an '04 GTP Grand Prix, which is faster than all 3 of my third gens. Nice to get heckled by my own wife, but at least the Z28 can beat her

 

ok gear heads. I had all the work done yesterday and it seems like it still has a miss. They found 2 burnt plug wires one hard as a rock another burnt and cracked pretty bad. I picked it up and it shifts like a dream now with the new clutch, plate, bearing and turned flywheel but it just doesnt sound right. Now granted this is my first 305.... Im sorry 350 gods I have cheated on you! Slight rough idle and just seems not right. Is there anything I should be checking for that is a known SNAFU on the HO 305? If the weather would permit I would do the vac leak test with a can of carb cleaner but for now "Monica" is all bundled up in her garage waiting for the rain to stop. Just trying to put some feelers out there so when I pull her out again Ill have some ideas to check.

 

Speak for yourself Kemosabe. Shortly after the first F&F movie came out, the local import crowd decided to start having semi-organized street races. I met up with my friends at one of them, and a few friends wanted to run the Formula. Shortly after a few wins, a kid with a supercharged 3.8 Pontiac walked up and thought he could do better... He did a little better then my buddy's 3.1L Fiero, but he wasn't even close to catching me.

Get an 89-92 LB9 5spd or L98, some sticky tires, and go blow the doors off that GTP. You just need faster thirdgens.

 

Sounds like you're on the right track... Isolate that it's not an ignition problem, keeping in mind that even a worn out distributor can cause a miss, then look at fuel, and then look for a mechanical issue. If it's still got the computer controlled Q-jet, try to find someone that really knows their stuff if it needs some attention. If someone did swap the cam, the valves might not be set right. Check out the various mechanical sub forums and you'll probably find more info then you can process. I know just enough about carbs to know that when they work great, they're great, and when they don't I prefer fuel injection.

Don't be too concerned about the 305 vs 350... At 80's power levels, that 305 made more power then most 350s of the time. Get it running right, and it'll be fun to drive. With the gearing the HO cars are usually good for pleasing burn outs, and don't have the RPM handicap of the TPI cars.

 

Looks like a very nice ride. I think you made a great purchase. There's something cool about that 1984 front end that I really like. The car doesn't look original as stated above but most of the good bits still seem to be in place. Under the hood needs some sprucing up a bit as does some of the interior. If it's still raining out, to kill some time I'd take off the gauge cluster bezel and sand the clear piece with (removed) grit sandpaper and then maybe polish it. All's you wanna do is take off the scratches. If your hinky about doing that try it on a scrap piece of clear to get an idea what you're doing. Good luck.

Edit. My tuner buddy used some type of plastic polish not xxxx grit sandpaper.

 

Not to hi-jack a thread, but I have news for you. "Some kid" in an s/c 3800 GTP does not mean all GTPs are slower...and I would think you, of all people, could see that 1 idiot does not make a trend

In reality, my IROC is probably about as quick. I have not taken any of my third gens to the track yet, but am pretty excited to take both 88s in the spring. I wanna see what they'll do. Meanwhile, I HAVE taken the GTP, and ran a 14.39 with it the same day I ran the 13.98 with my Z.

Its gonna take one helluva third gen to beat that...sorry to tell you

 

LOL



Call me crazy, but 3 hundredths of a second isn't much. That's 10 times faster then a blink of an eye. My best pass that day was a 14.32. I've got the time slip around here somewhere, (Found it! Click here...) just didn't catch it on video. At the time the car was bone stock, and not in the best state of tune. I was spinning pretty good on launch too, had to launch at idle to hook up at all.

A few years after the earlier incident another buddy acquired a later GTP with a ton of modifications. The stuff I know about included an aftermarket supercharger with quick change pulleys for different boost levels, and a Borla exhaust. I seem to remember everything was ported and polished, headers, ignition upgrades, etc. From a 40mph roll it was pretty much a dead heat. He didn't want to run them from a dead stop.

We had SC'd 3800s on the car lot all the time. I've driven plenty (at least half a dozen) of them, and even with the performance shift turned on, and the TCS turned off they were fairly slow... Burnouts? Sure, but not fast by any stretch of the imagination.

You can believe whatever you want, but I really don't have any reason to exaggerate. My 4cyl Mustang in all of it's rusty glory is faster then any of my thirdgens. You just always talk about how (all) thirdgens are slow, when you've personally chosen slower examples, particularly with poor gearing. It doesn't really matter, because you don't own them to go fast. But it's silly how you assume that every thirdgen is going to have trouble holding it's own with a FWD hotrod grocery getter.

Put a 2.73 rear and an auto in your Z28 and it'd probably be slower then your Iroc...

PM me if you want to discuss it further.

 

Couple things I'd like to air in public

1) I do not consider ALL third gens slow. Hardly. I've even defended my peanut-cammed 2.77 geared 86 to you when you called it slow awhile back

2) You are 100% correct that I did not choose any 3 of my cars based on sheer speed. The IROC is a gearset away from being ideal, IMO. I don't particularly see that big of a speed increase in a comparable 89-92 car, although I know you've said many times that is the case. The 88 TA I bought for the sheer driving fun of the 5 speed/t-top/WS6/TPI combo. A 350car would be faster, albeit not by much. However, this is the exact combo I was looking for when I bought it, and according to Pontiac brochures, if I wanted performance axle with this combo in '88, I needed to give up A/C...something I would not have been willing to do. My '86 I bought because it was solid/low mileage/had TPI/dirt cheap/hardtop...basically the opposite of what my other third gen ('91 RS) was at the time. Its a cruise night special, looking all nice and pretty, but would probably struggle to break high 15s. This fact doesn't bother me in the least...speed isn't why I bought it.

3) With that said, I stand by my statement that it takes a helluva third gen to break low 14s. Am I wrong? You posted pics of your own "helluva" third gen...an SD 350 perf axle Formula. How many were built like that? You and I both know, not nearly enough!!! My 88 pair are on the quicker side for third gens, all things considered...admittedly, both lack the right gears. However, if they're on the faster side, and would get matched or beat by the aforementioned GTP, what I said wasn't wrong I'm hardly hating on third gens, here.

I love the variety of options with third gens...it makes almost every one seem unique. However, its unfortunate the vast majority of them are V6/LG4/LO3/LB9 automatic cars. Those are all high 15 second 1/4 mile cars, or significantly worse.

It DOES take a helluva third gen to beat that number...and lucky for you, you have one Most aren't set up like yours. Next May, I'm psyched to see what my 88s do. I'm praying for a 14.5 for the IROC, and a 14.9 for the TA. I just changed out the injectors on the IROC when I did the intake gasket, and its running STRONG. The TA will get the same work in the spring.

I've been able to run "magzine times" with my Z28 and GTP at this track...hoping the same holds true for the 88s. Admittedly, I'm nervous taking 2 sub 30k garage queens down a track...needless to say, gratuitous burn outs and power shifting ain't happening

 

Looks nice. Like the low option content (crank windows!) and 5-speed. Nitpicky comments include lack of original seats, the missing stripe above the GFX at the bottom of the car and, of course, the ever-common wrong speedometer. An '84 should have the double pointer unit. This has a single pointer unit from an '85 or '86 car, meaning someone changed it for whatever reason.

 

You bought a nice car, OP. It's nice to see an early car in a bright color.

I'd say if you clean up some of the small issues, you're looking at a salable $6k, and I'd insure it at $8k, but it looks like you've done better on both fronts. I think you did pretty well, clean car.