17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
06-22-2012, 02:16 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
if you're upset or offended, you may want to read my (rather long) post again. i dont know if it escaped you the first time you read it, but i made many of the same points that you made for keeping it stock (for now anyway).
for example:
i also dont feel that it is responsible to suggest to a 17 year old to gut his car, which is why i advised him to wait, and save money, which will probably take years. and in those years he can learn more about what makes these cars tick. i have told this kid over and over again to be paitient.
of course i have considered that some people have the means to own more than one car - i have five cars. but did you consider that a 17 year old probably does not? AND, i told the guy, he should wait until he DOES get a second car before he does anything to his Camaro. (its all in my post, dude, so i dont know why you're upset with me.) and an added bonus of him waiting to get a second vehicle first is that more time will go by, more maturity and wisdom can set in rather than going hogwild on his nice car with (i presume) limited funds and limited knowledge.
sometimes, what can happen is people read a statement that they find argumetative, and their adrenaline gets going, their brain gets excited, and fails to process that which comes after the statement.
now, i stand by that...from experience. for most people, the end goal when trying to build the car of their dreams, is a car with performance AND niceties (nice paint, nice interior, and more) which the OP's car already has...which puts him ahead of the game. the "cheap roller" that you alluded to earlier is probably going to also need paint, an interior, electricals, and about a million other little things that add up to a project that will never get off the ground for most people without an almost unlimited budget.
perfect example: my Formula 350. when i bought that car, it made an 8 to the inventory. i already had a black 89 Formula 350 (rolling project) that i paid $750 for in El Paso TX, hauled down to Presidio TX, then had it hauled up to Washington State, where it sat in storage - i was determined - and had alread paid waaay more than what i paid for the car just dragging it around and keeping it off my front lawn.
then i came across the one i have now for 7K - an all original low miler (it had 29745 mi when i bought it. i jumped at that price under the premise that the car was in perfect condition. turns out i got ripped off because the motor was completely seized and it needed a few other things because the car sat for many many many years. BUT, after putting maybe 8K or so into the car, it is and does everything i want, from engine upgrades, suspension upgrades, to stereo system. it would have cost me, i can safely say, more than 20K to get my black one where i wanted it. thats how starting on third base gets you closer to home. and i have to stand by that and am not going to steer a 17 year old kid wrong by telling him he ought to start from scratch on another project in order to preserve a low-end 3rd Gen. that would be intellectually dishonest. but i am telling him he should wait until he has a second (primary vehicle) and about 10 grand to throw at this project before he dives in. and that can and probably will take years. and by then, he may not want to mod it, or spend the money on it, may have moved on to something else, ect.
for example:
i also dont feel that it is responsible to suggest to a 17 year old to gut his car, which is why i advised him to wait, and save money, which will probably take years. and in those years he can learn more about what makes these cars tick. i have told this kid over and over again to be paitient.
of course i have considered that some people have the means to own more than one car - i have five cars. but did you consider that a 17 year old probably does not? AND, i told the guy, he should wait until he DOES get a second car before he does anything to his Camaro. (its all in my post, dude, so i dont know why you're upset with me.) and an added bonus of him waiting to get a second vehicle first is that more time will go by, more maturity and wisdom can set in rather than going hogwild on his nice car with (i presume) limited funds and limited knowledge.
sometimes, what can happen is people read a statement that they find argumetative, and their adrenaline gets going, their brain gets excited, and fails to process that which comes after the statement.
now, i stand by that...from experience. for most people, the end goal when trying to build the car of their dreams, is a car with performance AND niceties (nice paint, nice interior, and more) which the OP's car already has...which puts him ahead of the game. the "cheap roller" that you alluded to earlier is probably going to also need paint, an interior, electricals, and about a million other little things that add up to a project that will never get off the ground for most people without an almost unlimited budget.
perfect example: my Formula 350. when i bought that car, it made an 8 to the inventory. i already had a black 89 Formula 350 (rolling project) that i paid $750 for in El Paso TX, hauled down to Presidio TX, then had it hauled up to Washington State, where it sat in storage - i was determined - and had alread paid waaay more than what i paid for the car just dragging it around and keeping it off my front lawn.
then i came across the one i have now for 7K - an all original low miler (it had 29745 mi when i bought it. i jumped at that price under the premise that the car was in perfect condition. turns out i got ripped off because the motor was completely seized and it needed a few other things because the car sat for many many many years. BUT, after putting maybe 8K or so into the car, it is and does everything i want, from engine upgrades, suspension upgrades, to stereo system. it would have cost me, i can safely say, more than 20K to get my black one where i wanted it. thats how starting on third base gets you closer to home. and i have to stand by that and am not going to steer a 17 year old kid wrong by telling him he ought to start from scratch on another project in order to preserve a low-end 3rd Gen. that would be intellectually dishonest. but i am telling him he should wait until he has a second (primary vehicle) and about 10 grand to throw at this project before he dives in. and that can and probably will take years. and by then, he may not want to mod it, or spend the money on it, may have moved on to something else, ect.
06-22-2012, 02:19 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
06-22-2012, 02:58 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
you have no idea how important that question was in the presidential election
http://www.hulu.com/watch/74627 skip ahead to about 2:30
http://www.hulu.com/watch/74627 skip ahead to about 2:30
Last edited by kmcn47; 06-22-2012 at 03:05 PM. Reason: wrong link
06-22-2012, 03:08 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
06-22-2012, 04:02 PM
#55
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
Lol, I’m offended but I’m not upset. I do see the style of your post as inflammatory as it calls people’s opinions out as either right or wrong and when you do that you’re passing judgment on things others have stated. We may or may not ever agree on point #4 and I’m fine with that. If you’re already assuming that I’m upset then you must know that the way you presented yourself was in an argumentative manner. Saying that I am wrong is a lot different than saying that you disagree and then point out some reasons why. If you had done that, I am more likely invited in to read what you have to say and possibly be convinced otherwise. When that happens it also gives me room to reconsider, when you say I’m wrong it creates a barrier. I hope that you can see the difference in what I’m trying to say.
sometimes, what can happen is people read a statement that they find argumetative, and their adrenaline gets going, their brain gets excited, and fails to process that which comes after the statement.
please allow that the "start with less" route that you were advocating is a road that i have been down before, and IMHO, it will likely be a dead end for most people. and when i saw that recommendation my reaction was like "NOOOOOOO!", and to try and put the brakes on it in a hurry.
so, if you'd honor me, i would like to invite you to disregard the "i'm right-your wrong" tone of what i had to say, and see what it actually says, which isnt really that argumentative, but experiential and factually based, and in the long short term, in favor of leaving the car as is. the reasons why are all there. in a nutshell, it takes less money and effort to get from third base to home than it does if starting at first base. plus, it IS an RS. a stock RS isnt going to be worth big money down the road and it definitely isnt going to pick on Mustangs like the OP wants.
06-22-2012, 04:11 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
06-22-2012, 04:37 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
It's your car and you can do what you want to with it. I got my car when I was 17. In high school the only mod that I did to it was put on a Flowmaster 3 inch cat back exhaust. I always wanted a Z28 or an IROC and I was just happy that I found one.
For a while I kept my car mostly stock. I have kept it in good shape it’s in good working order now. At this point I want my car to look stock but be more of a performer. When I got my car it had 153,000 miles on it so it was not going to be a show car. That’s not what I wanted anyway. I have the freedom to drive my car.
I've put in a rebuilt stock AC Delco Remanufactured L98 motor when the original engine gave up the ghost at 166,000. I replaced the original trans at 175,000 miles when the stock one blew up. At that point the transmission was old and couldn't take the power of the rebuilt motor. I also had full exhaust installed from the headers on back by that point. I have gone through a rebuilt the brakes back to stock and had the rear end gone through. I’ve all most got 200,000 miles on the body of my car and I plan to keep on driving it.
After high school I started studying mechanical engineering in college and started reading up on thirdgens and cars in general. I have much more of an appreciation and understanding for what goes in to (what I would consider a well rounded car) now at age 28 then I did when I was 17. That’s not to say that I think that teens shouldn't mod their cars, it’s just now I have more experience and knowledge than I did when I was 17.
At this point, if I got a car that I was going to keep 100% stock I would want a low mile original. A good example of that is Chazmans all stock '89 IROC with only 11,000 miles. I know there are other low mile examples on this website too, but that’s a nice car to compare things to.
My goal, however, was I wanted a car that I could drive. I am making mods now based off of the things I have learned from friends, this website, what I know from my engineering background, and personal experience.
I'm on my 3rd trans and converter and I am very satisfied with it. I have made a bunch of intake mods to my car in combination with the exhaust and it performs nice for it being and all stock L98. My next goals are to upgrade the suspension bushings and add 1LE style brakes. I also am in the process of purchasing long tube runners, ported plenum, and intake from members on this site.
It's your car and you have to decide what you want to do with it. A lot of people get in trouble because they don't set out clear goals before the pick up a car and start changing things. That’s half of the battle right there.
With me I want a fast street car. I don't drag race my car and I don't autocross it. I have my fun on the highway and going on twisty back roads. What I have done to my car hasn't changed that. I am still able to get good fuel economy and drive it where I want, when I want without it breaking down.
Start reading books, magazines and really understanding cars in general before you start mods and changing things to any great extent before you get a plan together.
I remember when I was in high school a guy had a black '68 Firebird that was a drag racing car. The thing had a 400+ cubic inch big block, 11:1 compression, high lift cam, aluminum heads, th400 trans, 4.10 gears, drag racing suspension set up, roll cage, fire extinguisher, the works. He rarely took that car to the strip and he ended up having to sell it because it cost too much for gas. At that time gas was still under $2.00/gallon but he worked 35-40 miles away from school and that car only got around 7-8 miles per gallon on a good day. He was breaking his bank just tryng to keep gas in it let alone all the other maintenance that he had to do to it. It was a cool car; it just didn't fit his needs at the time.
You've got a Camaro, that’s a great starting place! I would like to see more teens get in to Camaros than fixing up imports! It’s true, even if you keep that RS stock it won't be in the same category as a Z28 or IROC that has low miles and is 100% stock. That’s just the pecking order and the Z28's and IROC's are above the RS's in the 3rd gen food chain.
That being said, you can make your car be what you want. You can always modify the 305 or swap something else in there. Change the transmission, the rear end, the suspension. You can make your car be what you want. Just go to school and study up on things and understand them before you make changes. Just be sure to make the changes fit your plans for the car and how you want to use it.
3rd gens are great cars that are very underrated in my view. I always like to see 100% stock cars in good shape. I also have an appreciation for modded cars as well. It would be cool to have a stock looking Camaro RS that would blow the doors off a newer Z28. Ha ha that guy would be left scratching his head trying to figure out if a V6 or stock LO3 305 beat him. To me that would be a good sleeper project.
For a while I kept my car mostly stock. I have kept it in good shape it’s in good working order now. At this point I want my car to look stock but be more of a performer. When I got my car it had 153,000 miles on it so it was not going to be a show car. That’s not what I wanted anyway. I have the freedom to drive my car.
I've put in a rebuilt stock AC Delco Remanufactured L98 motor when the original engine gave up the ghost at 166,000. I replaced the original trans at 175,000 miles when the stock one blew up. At that point the transmission was old and couldn't take the power of the rebuilt motor. I also had full exhaust installed from the headers on back by that point. I have gone through a rebuilt the brakes back to stock and had the rear end gone through. I’ve all most got 200,000 miles on the body of my car and I plan to keep on driving it.
After high school I started studying mechanical engineering in college and started reading up on thirdgens and cars in general. I have much more of an appreciation and understanding for what goes in to (what I would consider a well rounded car) now at age 28 then I did when I was 17. That’s not to say that I think that teens shouldn't mod their cars, it’s just now I have more experience and knowledge than I did when I was 17.
At this point, if I got a car that I was going to keep 100% stock I would want a low mile original. A good example of that is Chazmans all stock '89 IROC with only 11,000 miles. I know there are other low mile examples on this website too, but that’s a nice car to compare things to.
My goal, however, was I wanted a car that I could drive. I am making mods now based off of the things I have learned from friends, this website, what I know from my engineering background, and personal experience.
I'm on my 3rd trans and converter and I am very satisfied with it. I have made a bunch of intake mods to my car in combination with the exhaust and it performs nice for it being and all stock L98. My next goals are to upgrade the suspension bushings and add 1LE style brakes. I also am in the process of purchasing long tube runners, ported plenum, and intake from members on this site.
It's your car and you have to decide what you want to do with it. A lot of people get in trouble because they don't set out clear goals before the pick up a car and start changing things. That’s half of the battle right there.
With me I want a fast street car. I don't drag race my car and I don't autocross it. I have my fun on the highway and going on twisty back roads. What I have done to my car hasn't changed that. I am still able to get good fuel economy and drive it where I want, when I want without it breaking down.
Start reading books, magazines and really understanding cars in general before you start mods and changing things to any great extent before you get a plan together.
I remember when I was in high school a guy had a black '68 Firebird that was a drag racing car. The thing had a 400+ cubic inch big block, 11:1 compression, high lift cam, aluminum heads, th400 trans, 4.10 gears, drag racing suspension set up, roll cage, fire extinguisher, the works. He rarely took that car to the strip and he ended up having to sell it because it cost too much for gas. At that time gas was still under $2.00/gallon but he worked 35-40 miles away from school and that car only got around 7-8 miles per gallon on a good day. He was breaking his bank just tryng to keep gas in it let alone all the other maintenance that he had to do to it. It was a cool car; it just didn't fit his needs at the time.
You've got a Camaro, that’s a great starting place! I would like to see more teens get in to Camaros than fixing up imports! It’s true, even if you keep that RS stock it won't be in the same category as a Z28 or IROC that has low miles and is 100% stock. That’s just the pecking order and the Z28's and IROC's are above the RS's in the 3rd gen food chain.
That being said, you can make your car be what you want. You can always modify the 305 or swap something else in there. Change the transmission, the rear end, the suspension. You can make your car be what you want. Just go to school and study up on things and understand them before you make changes. Just be sure to make the changes fit your plans for the car and how you want to use it.
3rd gens are great cars that are very underrated in my view. I always like to see 100% stock cars in good shape. I also have an appreciation for modded cars as well. It would be cool to have a stock looking Camaro RS that would blow the doors off a newer Z28. Ha ha that guy would be left scratching his head trying to figure out if a V6 or stock LO3 305 beat him. To me that would be a good sleeper project.
Last edited by yaj15; 06-22-2012 at 04:47 PM. Reason: content
06-22-2012, 05:49 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
yes. i see exactly what you mean, and now that you put it that way, i regret having put up that barrier. i acknowledged earlier that a barrier was in effect: but i did so in a way that put the onus entirely on you, the reader, or the prosecution, or whatever. but you are right, i think, that much of the onus falls upon me for the devisive manner in which i presented my point.
please allow that the "start with less" route that you were advocating is a road that i have been down before, and IMHO, it will likely be a dead end for most people. and when i saw that recommendation my reaction was like "NOOOOOOO!", and to try and put the brakes on it in a hurry.
so, if you'd honor me, i would like to invite you to disregard the "i'm right-your wrong" tone of what i had to say, and see what it actually says, which isnt really that argumentative, but experiential and factually based, and in the long short term, in favor of leaving the car as is. the reasons why are all there. in a nutshell, it takes less money and effort to get from third base to home than it does if starting at first base. plus, it IS an RS. a stock RS isnt going to be worth big money down the road and it definitely isnt going to pick on Mustangs like the OP wants.
please allow that the "start with less" route that you were advocating is a road that i have been down before, and IMHO, it will likely be a dead end for most people. and when i saw that recommendation my reaction was like "NOOOOOOO!", and to try and put the brakes on it in a hurry.
so, if you'd honor me, i would like to invite you to disregard the "i'm right-your wrong" tone of what i had to say, and see what it actually says, which isnt really that argumentative, but experiential and factually based, and in the long short term, in favor of leaving the car as is. the reasons why are all there. in a nutshell, it takes less money and effort to get from third base to home than it does if starting at first base. plus, it IS an RS. a stock RS isnt going to be worth big money down the road and it definitely isnt going to pick on Mustangs like the OP wants.
Communication is a two way street and responsibility does depend on both sides although general interpretation is an additional factor when multiple individuals are interpreting a single message.
I'd like to thank you for your openness to understanding and I appreciate your response. It was much more than I had expected.
06-22-2012, 06:24 PM
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06-22-2012, 07:31 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
Keep it all stock looking, aesthetically speaking... but beef up everything like the suspension, tranny, motor, rear-end...
And then whenever people ask you, "What's all done to it?", you can say, "just an exhaust...".
That's what I'm gunna do with my GTA!
And then whenever people ask you, "What's all done to it?", you can say, "just an exhaust...".
That's what I'm gunna do with my GTA!
06-22-2012, 07:36 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
With it being a TBI 305 (had a 90 & 92 myself years ago), it is going to take basically replacing the entire engine if you wanna "whoop some mustang ***". Just swapping to a bone stock '92 350 TPI will only get you to 245hp & even that will have you losing to more than you'd like to lose to. Just swapping to TPI will get you, on average, a good 30hp or more.
Not saying that you can't make it fun, just don't focus on "the win" ability. Drive it for what it is & enjoy it.
Not saying that you can't make it fun, just don't focus on "the win" ability. Drive it for what it is & enjoy it.
06-22-2012, 10:08 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
Yup. Good advice here. Although I would put some different rims on it (especially some 9-10" wides in the rear to take advantage of that low end torque and make your car a little safer). But like I said earlier, do this after you've learned your car and gained some experiance, and don't dump money into that 305.
06-22-2012, 10:26 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
Hey I'm Jake, Just got my 1992 Camaro RS a year ago. It is completely original all except for the FlowMaster series 80 i replaced the original muffler with. It has the original 305 V8 and 4 speed automatic transmission. But I'm caught between a rock and a hard place here. I love having one of the very few completely original third generation Camaros out there since all of them were either modded, fell apart, or were wrapped around a pole, am i right? But I'm sure most of you Camaro lovers just like myself know that the RS version of the 1992 Camaro that was NOT the heritage edition wasn't very fast, pushing only 170-190 horsepower. Now like I said I like having an original Camaro since its so hard to fine that runs as perfect as mine does, (Zero mechanical problems). BUT, here's where my dilemma is. I would love to give my car some more power, maybe put some headers on it, cold air intake, bigger exhaust, higher lift cam, etc. I want to beef this car out so it can whoop some mustang ***. (Not going to race, i just want to know it can, haha). So what would all of you professionals on thirdgen suggest to me? I like having an original Camaro, but i also want to make it the baddest car on the block if you know what I mean. Please reply with what you think I should do. Keep this in mind, I will never be selling this car, it is MINE and i refuse to give it up haha. 
Thanks everyone.
Thanks everyone.Hey Jake this is Jerry, I share that same way of thinking too and the most common route that owners of RS Camaros take is by making it a sleeper and switching out the 305 engine for a 350. I have a Z28 with the 350 and its Blazing fast but its also 99% Original except for the 80's Series Flowmaster Exhaust, All Factory ordered Options such as the 350. But I would keep the RS stock and buy a mid 80's Iroc with the 305 and look to really Wake it up, there are deals out there I've seen them go as low as 1200.
06-22-2012, 10:49 PM
#67
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
I have always kind of thought, leaving my car original would be fine because it is what it is, its a good looking cruiser despite me wanting to beef it out and make it fast; but instead eventually get an 87 IROC or something like that and mod the **** out of that bitch, make it haul complete ***, because people that look at it will know it can whoop *** if it needs to, instead of looking at an RS and thinking "305". But, I don't know, might just keep my baby and buy a 69 Z28.
06-22-2012, 11:03 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
That's cool too but you'd have to save up for a long time because a Genuine '69 Z/28 is rare and very expensive, You could do what everybody rose does and buy a regular '69 body and make it an SS or Yenko clone 
since that's what everybody does you cannot get a '69 v6 for under 7 grand even if the body is in rough shape. Just drop in a 396 or a (427 Preffered) some paint and stripes, wide tires in the back and a muncie 4sp with true dual 40 series Flowmaster and It's Hello Asphalt.
since that's what everybody does you cannot get a '69 v6 for under 7 grand even if the body is in rough shape. Just drop in a 396 or a (427 Preffered) some paint and stripes, wide tires in the back and a muncie 4sp with true dual 40 series Flowmaster and It's Hello Asphalt.
06-22-2012, 11:41 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
The post by Linson about how Z28's and IROC's will be the only desirable cars 20 years or more form now was kind of a kick in the *** to me. Especially where he said most hardcore thirdgen lovers really wouldn't desire a completely original RS later on at all. Kind of took away the special feeling I had for my car since it IS completely original, paint codes, part codes, everything. I thought it would have been a car someone would be dying for especially being a 25th Anniversary car. Makes me kind of feel like my car won't ever be that special. But really most of what he said is true, just kind of a kick in the *** like he said. :/
06-22-2012, 11:56 PM
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
well here is how I feel on my car: its an 88 TA with 220,000 miles on it, i dont care about originality, its mine and i'll do whatever I want to with. But dang you have a really nice car, I would leave stock/original. I'll admit I have done some stupid hack jobs on my car when I was 15/16 and didnt know much about these cars. I turned 17 and realized I shouldnt've done all that and now I'm trying to fix everything. So dont do any hack jobs haha
06-23-2012, 12:43 AM
#71
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
The post by Linson about how Z28's and IROC's will be the only desirable cars 20 years or more form now was kind of a kick in the *** to me. Especially where he said most hardcore thirdgen lovers really wouldn't desire a completely original RS later on at all. Kind of took away the special feeling I had for my car since it IS completely original, paint codes, part codes, everything. I thought it would have been a car someone would be dying for especially being a 25th Anniversary car. Makes me kind of feel like my car won't ever be that special. But really most of what he said is true, just kind of a kick in the *** like he said. :/
has he ever seen pumma's car? its a BEAUTIFUL rs and i'd take it over a ragged on formula or iroc anyday, ad as for all this "drop in a tree fiddy" talk you know your not gonna have a race car just by swapping in what will probably be a junkyard 70s truck motor which had less power new then your 305 did and has been sitting in the mud for atleast 5 years waiting for someone to "build em a fast camaro for street racin" to come along and get suckered by the owner, how do i know my neighbor chuckie owns a junkyard and sells out of crap 70s truck 350 motors hes got plenty of running 305 vehichles that just need new batteries and a vacuuming out, but people come in in reasonably nice vehichles all the time wanting to swap in a big power 350 most of them never finish there swaps, or end up hacking the wiring to hell or swapping one in a v6 car and doing nothing to the front suspension and ruining the car, honestly no offense but your 17 you do NOT need a truly FAST car be happy with the quick beautiful survivor you have, be glad that you can drive it daily with no worries other then crashing it, you dont need to replace lights and a fuel pump and seats cuz the interior is trashed, or all the weatherstripping because it was gonna be someones drag car that sat out in the backyard waiting to get built and then got sold to someone who wanted to fix up a nice car for a weekend toy or project, seriously if it aint broke dont fix it, wait until you've got about 2-250k on that 305 and it starts to go to swap it for something better or rebuild it, by then you'll be probably finished with high school and hopefully college and working having the expendable income to do a swap right rather then taking your beautiful rs off the road for over a year atleast while you worked or did chores to make the money for parts you didn't expect to need when doing your 350/lt1/ls1/(hopefully not) truck 5.3 motor which takes some "massaging" to make fit and will require some transmission mods or a new one, that stuffs all expensive and it isn't as easy as it can seem when you see it done on build threads here, i wanted to ls swap my l69 84 z28 this baby is very original and the interior is cherry, all it needs is a respray and a small hole in the roof filled (cb antenna long ago) and it'll be perfect work on small things if you have to make it run BETTER before you make it run FASTER how new is the alternator/starter/battery? those are all important are the brakes good? could they be better? if you feel the need to work on it, there's always maintenance i know its a 92 but everything needs some work now and again, are all your lines and hoses newer? no cracking rotting or anything that would cause them to fail? new plugs/wires? coil? does everything work? i dont care if my "High Output" 305 makes less then 200 horsepower, it'll still be cruising when all these guys building "racecars"crash or blow up and that makes me smile
no offense to anyone just my 
06-23-2012, 12:55 AM
#72
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS, 2012 Camaro SS 45th
Engine: L03 305 TBI V8, Blown 6.2L LS3
Transmission: 700R4, TR6060
Axle/Gears: GM 7.6" 10 Bolt 2.73
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
has he ever seen pumma's car? its a BEAUTIFUL rs and i'd take it over a ragged on formula or iroc anyday, ad as for all this "drop in a tree fiddy" talk you know your not gonna have a race car just by swapping in what will probably be a junkyard 70s truck motor which had less power new then your 305 did and has been sitting in the mud for atleast 5 years waiting for someone to "build em a fast camaro for street racin" to come along and get suckered by the owner, how do i know my neighbor chuckie owns a junkyard and sells out of crap 70s truck 350 motors hes got plenty of running 305 vehichles that just need new batteries and a vacuuming out, but people come in in reasonably nice vehichles all the time wanting to swap in a big power 350 most of them never finish there swaps, or end up hacking the wiring to hell or swapping one in a v6 car and doing nothing to the front suspension and ruining the car, honestly no offense but your 17 you do NOT need a truly FAST car be happy with the quick beautiful survivor you have, be glad that you can drive it daily with no worries other then crashing it, you dont need to replace lights and a fuel pump and seats cuz the interior is trashed, or all the weatherstripping because it was gonna be someones drag car that sat out in the backyard waiting to get built and then got sold to someone who wanted to fix up a nice car for a weekend toy or project, seriously if it aint broke dont fix it, wait until you've got about 2-250k on that 305 and it starts to go to swap it for something better or rebuild it, by then you'll be probably finished with high school and hopefully college and working having the expendable income to do a swap right rather then taking your beautiful rs off the road for over a year atleast while you worked or did chores to make the money for parts you didn't expect to need when doing your 350/lt1/ls1/(hopefully not) truck 5.3 motor which takes some "massaging" to make fit and will require some transmission mods or a new one, that stuffs all expensive and it isn't as easy as it can seem when you see it done on build threads here, i wanted to ls swap my l69 84 z28 this baby is very original and the interior is cherry, all it needs is a respray and a small hole in the roof filled (cb antenna long ago) and it'll be perfect work on small things if you have to make it run BETTER before you make it run FASTER how new is the alternator/starter/battery? those are all important are the brakes good? could they be better? if you feel the need to work on it, there's always maintenance i know its a 92 but everything needs some work now and again, are all your lines and hoses newer? no cracking rotting or anything that would cause them to fail? new plugs/wires? coil? does everything work? i dont care if my "High Output" 305 makes less then 200 horsepower, it'll still be cruising when all these guys building "racecars"crash or blow up and that makes me smile no offense to anyone just my
no offense to anyone just my
06-23-2012, 01:08 AM
#74
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
a couple of things...
1. i disagree with those who say "if you mod it, make sure those mods are reverseable." my Formula 350 has been modded rather extensively and i didnt keep any of the old stuff. what would people have us do - go through life storing stock exhaust systems and stock torque arms; having a 305 TBI taking up space in our garage or on our lawn? screw that! why would i ever want to go back to stock? so i can sell the car? how much more is a stock Formula 350 worth VS. one with forged rods, aluminum vortec heads, hotchkis rear suspension, full exhaust, and much more? not much, probably less. for an RS, even more so in favor of modification. and then what? sell the aftermarket parts? i dont have time for all of that. it's a/the car you want or it isnt. it is NOT an investment. period. you WILL lose money. period.
2. when people say, that in 10 years, you'll be glad you didnt modify it, they are right (in a way.) because in 10 years you will be wiser than you are now. you will have a better idea what you want out of a car. and not having spent thousands of dollars taking your Camaro build in the wrong direction, you'd be glad that you didn't throw your money away. however, this is the painful learning process. if you do decide to modify, then if you're smart you'd listen to the folks here, and alot of them are smarter than me. notice, no one from the "mod it" crowd are telling you to carb it, throw a big block at it, throw nitrous or a blower at it, mini-tub it, ect., ect. everyone is pretty much in agreement on an LS swap or upping your cubic inches with a fuel injected roller motor. anyway, i agree in that respect, that in ten years you'll either want another car or be better prepared to tackle this project properly. however, i dont agree with the premise that in ten years you will wake up and decide that performance is not FUN or important, and that there is more pleasure in driving a well preserved 170 horsepower car.
3. there are those who say "stock is reliable." they are right. not that mods cant be reliable, but it has to be done right. i know that myself and others will put our cars up toe to toe with stockers as far as reliability - but i already had my 3rd gen project that i turned into an unreliable jalopy.
if this car is going to be your daily driver, and face rain and snow and have to get you from place to place on a daily basis, i honestly dont recommend getting into a bunch of mods any time soon. number one - too much down time. number two - you're not going to like your sweet baby (in which you've invested so much time and money) getting rained on, snowed on, at risk of theft or collision, or parking lot scratches. and three - it may become ill-suited for daily commute, if nothing else because of possibly decreased gas mileage. and finally, its a 3rd gen, so even in stock form, it isnt the most practical of commuter cars. in short, if you have the means, you should get a 4-banger beater or even a truck or something for your daily commuting before you tackle a serious Camaro project.
4. those that are saying to keep your 92 RS stock (because its in solid condition) and go and buy another 3rd gen that needs work, and mod that ... ARE WRONG. Dead Wrong. as i said before, you are already way ahead on this project because your car is in such good condition. if you are hard pressed to budget a build with the car you have, imagine mutiplying your expense up to 5-fold on a car that needs to be fixed, repaired, and restored, and not just built up.
dispite what people think or want to believe - NOBODY is looking for a stock RS. Nobody. and they never will be. never. people ARE looking for IROCS. people ARE looking for Formulas. people ARE looking for GTAs. not base models (RS's), regardless of condition. not saying that good condition cant be a selling point for a base model, but seriously, do you want a fast car or do you want to turn your $2500.00 (or whatever you paid for it) into $3200.00 in five years?
be patient. save money. get a daily driver. save money. LS swap... and do it right ~ if by then you havent decided that you like something else or are alltogether not into hot rodding. or maybe you will find something else fast, and your RS will end up as the daily driver. who knows? but as nice as it is, your RS is a solid foundation for an engine swap project, but because of it's low factory performance, it isnt a dream car. not even a 3rd Gen lover's dream car. it's still a nice car though.
1. i disagree with those who say "if you mod it, make sure those mods are reverseable." my Formula 350 has been modded rather extensively and i didnt keep any of the old stuff. what would people have us do - go through life storing stock exhaust systems and stock torque arms; having a 305 TBI taking up space in our garage or on our lawn? screw that! why would i ever want to go back to stock? so i can sell the car? how much more is a stock Formula 350 worth VS. one with forged rods, aluminum vortec heads, hotchkis rear suspension, full exhaust, and much more? not much, probably less. for an RS, even more so in favor of modification. and then what? sell the aftermarket parts? i dont have time for all of that. it's a/the car you want or it isnt. it is NOT an investment. period. you WILL lose money. period.
2. when people say, that in 10 years, you'll be glad you didnt modify it, they are right (in a way.) because in 10 years you will be wiser than you are now. you will have a better idea what you want out of a car. and not having spent thousands of dollars taking your Camaro build in the wrong direction, you'd be glad that you didn't throw your money away. however, this is the painful learning process. if you do decide to modify, then if you're smart you'd listen to the folks here, and alot of them are smarter than me. notice, no one from the "mod it" crowd are telling you to carb it, throw a big block at it, throw nitrous or a blower at it, mini-tub it, ect., ect. everyone is pretty much in agreement on an LS swap or upping your cubic inches with a fuel injected roller motor. anyway, i agree in that respect, that in ten years you'll either want another car or be better prepared to tackle this project properly. however, i dont agree with the premise that in ten years you will wake up and decide that performance is not FUN or important, and that there is more pleasure in driving a well preserved 170 horsepower car.
3. there are those who say "stock is reliable." they are right. not that mods cant be reliable, but it has to be done right. i know that myself and others will put our cars up toe to toe with stockers as far as reliability - but i already had my 3rd gen project that i turned into an unreliable jalopy.
if this car is going to be your daily driver, and face rain and snow and have to get you from place to place on a daily basis, i honestly dont recommend getting into a bunch of mods any time soon. number one - too much down time. number two - you're not going to like your sweet baby (in which you've invested so much time and money) getting rained on, snowed on, at risk of theft or collision, or parking lot scratches. and three - it may become ill-suited for daily commute, if nothing else because of possibly decreased gas mileage. and finally, its a 3rd gen, so even in stock form, it isnt the most practical of commuter cars. in short, if you have the means, you should get a 4-banger beater or even a truck or something for your daily commuting before you tackle a serious Camaro project.
4. those that are saying to keep your 92 RS stock (because its in solid condition) and go and buy another 3rd gen that needs work, and mod that ... ARE WRONG. Dead Wrong. as i said before, you are already way ahead on this project because your car is in such good condition. if you are hard pressed to budget a build with the car you have, imagine mutiplying your expense up to 5-fold on a car that needs to be fixed, repaired, and restored, and not just built up.
dispite what people think or want to believe - NOBODY is looking for a stock RS. Nobody. and they never will be. never. people ARE looking for IROCS. people ARE looking for Formulas. people ARE looking for GTAs. not base models (RS's), regardless of condition. not saying that good condition cant be a selling point for a base model, but seriously, do you want a fast car or do you want to turn your $2500.00 (or whatever you paid for it) into $3200.00 in five years?
be patient. save money. get a daily driver. save money. LS swap... and do it right ~ if by then you havent decided that you like something else or are alltogether not into hot rodding. or maybe you will find something else fast, and your RS will end up as the daily driver. who knows? but as nice as it is, your RS is a solid foundation for an engine swap project, but because of it's low factory performance, it isnt a dream car. not even a 3rd Gen lover's dream car. it's still a nice car though.
I think you should keep the car stock unless you have the money and ability to do it right. That means fuel injected roller motor of any generation. Im all about using good condition base models as heavy-mod fodder, but even then it needs to be done properly. Not a bunch of non-working spaghetti wiring everywhere with no working gauges, constantly throwing codes, tune way off for years making the car stall at traffic lights sporadically etc etc.
Do it right, or leave it alone. I dont regret any of the things I've done to my car. I would not have the insight and experience to do the things I would like to do to it in the future otherwise, but going to a flat tappet carb'd 350, even with the power, was a mistake in hindsight. I should have swapped in even a truck 4.8. Kept fuel injection. Maybe even an LT1. And dont get me wrong, I have a modern flat tappet grind with modern Vortec heads with a decent compression ratio. But it's still not a roller block and it's still carbureted.
Every day I wish I didnt have to deal with the quirks of having a carbureted car with no choke. I wish I got great gas mileage, and I wish I made more than the paltry 300-ish horsepower I ended up with for all my money invested and constant inconvenience of dealing with "racecar-isms". I love my car, but I only drive it a couple of times a week at most.
Keep it stock, or go big and do it RIGHT.
And I wish more people realized, like Linson, that a stock 305 RS TBI A4 car is never going to bring huge money. It will bring a LOT more stock than it will modified unless you put some REALLY slick stuff in it (an LS engine that has corvette coil covers and drives like stock, for example), but it's still just a base model. But also remember that it's only stock once. Once you deviate too far it's hard to go back, and these cars are very pleasant and easy to drive when they're the way GM intended them to be.
06-23-2012, 01:27 AM
#75
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
i miss power everything no leaking ttops and fuel injection great gas mileage and a more comfy ride in my 89 2.8 firebird that had the ws7 suspension, it was greatly fun little car totally stock except bilstein struts that i saved for over 8 months to buy all at once and i traded it all away sold the car for about 3k to a good friend i thought would baby it, well my expensive struts are bent the freshly rebuilt reliable 2.8 is knocking, the fender and door all down the passenger side is beat to hell because he sideswiped a car, he put on these awful seat covers which are bright blue, he got a b&m shifter that looks stupid in the car he broke the trunk latch which albeit was broken before (one of the auto pulldown ones that had a broken gear) by trying to break into the car with a hammer when he forgot his keys) i told him when he bought it get another set made, he dented up the hood dukes of hazarding it across it, theres a headlight out i mean gone not burned out, it burned out so he took it out 0.o the exhaust drags because he drives it out to his farm through gravel "jeep trails" and he plans to rattle can it red 
i wish like hell everyday i never sold my nice car to get my "faster" car with the ttops and the loud exhaust and the almost perfect paint, which isn't getting any better because my brothers project is taking up the garage i wanted and was promised i could keep it in. i didnt think ahgead being a college student with little to no money for my gashog (to me) carb'd v8 heavy muscle car. granted the mileage has gotten better since new plugs/wires/filters/oil change/ alternator/ and i did the a/c hissing fix and now have cold r134 converted ac which is always nice in the summer. and i wish more people understood a nice stick car needs no mods to be a nice car, also that autozone car customization ruins any car even if its a pos already
i wish like hell everyday i never sold my nice car to get my "faster" car with the ttops and the loud exhaust and the almost perfect paint, which isn't getting any better because my brothers project is taking up the garage i wanted and was promised i could keep it in. i didnt think ahgead being a college student with little to no money for my gashog (to me) carb'd v8 heavy muscle car. granted the mileage has gotten better since new plugs/wires/filters/oil change/ alternator/ and i did the a/c hissing fix and now have cold r134 converted ac which is always nice in the summer. and i wish more people understood a nice stick car needs no mods to be a nice car, also that autozone car customization ruins any car even if its a pos already
06-23-2012, 10:14 AM
#76
COTM Editor (Retired)
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
has he ever seen pumma's car? its a BEAUTIFUL rs and i'd take it over a ragged on formula or iroc anyday, ad as for all this "drop in a tree fiddy" talk you know your not gonna have a race car just by swapping in what will probably be a junkyard 70s truck motor which had less power new then your 305 did and has been sitting in the mud for atleast 5 years waiting for someone to "build em a fast camaro for street racin" to come along and get suckered by the owner, how do i know my neighbor chuckie owns a junkyard and sells out of crap 70s truck 350 motors hes got plenty of running 305 vehichles that just need new batteries and a vacuuming out, but people come in in reasonably nice vehichles all the time wanting to swap in a big power 350 most of them never finish there swaps, or end up hacking the wiring to hell or swapping one in a v6 car and doing nothing to the front suspension and ruining the car, honestly no offense but your 17 you do NOT need a truly FAST car be happy with the quick beautiful survivor you have, be glad that you can drive it daily with no worries other then crashing it, you dont need to replace lights and a fuel pump and seats cuz the interior is trashed, or all the weatherstripping because it was gonna be someones drag car that sat out in the backyard waiting to get built and then got sold to someone who wanted to fix up a nice car for a weekend toy or project, seriously if it aint broke dont fix it, wait until you've got about 2-250k on that 305 and it starts to go to swap it for something better or rebuild it, by then you'll be probably finished with high school and hopefully college and working having the expendable income to do a swap right rather then taking your beautiful rs off the road for over a year atleast while you worked or did chores to make the money for parts you didn't expect to need when doing your 350/lt1/ls1/(hopefully not) truck 5.3 motor which takes some "massaging" to make fit and will require some transmission mods or a new one, that stuffs all expensive and it isn't as easy as it can seem when you see it done on build threads here, i wanted to ls swap my l69 84 z28 this baby is very original and the interior is cherry, all it needs is a respray and a small hole in the roof filled (cb antenna long ago) and it'll be perfect work on small things if you have to make it run BETTER before you make it run FASTER how new is the alternator/starter/battery? those are all important are the brakes good? could they be better? if you feel the need to work on it, there's always maintenance i know its a 92 but everything needs some work now and again, are all your lines and hoses newer? no cracking rotting or anything that would cause them to fail? new plugs/wires? coil? does everything work? i dont care if my "High Output" 305 makes less then 200 horsepower, it'll still be cruising when all these guys building "racecars"crash or blow up and that makes me smile no offense to anyone just my
no offense to anyone just my also, for the record, i'm not in favor of changing the outward appearance of the car. an LS swap does not require a 4" cowl hood or a tripple decker wing. just wanna make sure that is clear.
if i'm not mistaken, the OP asked what is the best way to mod my RS for power, and the concensus is:
save up a bunch of money (which could take a few years) and swap in a late model LS series engine. and yes, it is true that it is not merely as simple as swapping power plants. having said that, i agree with you that he should probably wait a few years before messing with it unless he has alot of money and knows what he's doing - which he doesnt or else he wouldnt have asked the question of "how do you sup these up?" no offense, OP. i think you've come to the right place. the "i'll just get a 69 Camaro" comment was regretable though, as it makes you seem a little scatter-brained when it comes to all this.
oh, and yes, i have seen Puma's RS. Maui Blue, right? its a nice car, it just doesnt have the performance that i would need or that the OP says he wants. and its not going to be worth the kind of money that would justify not doing some performance mods if it's what you really want to do.
my assumption is that the OP would like his car to be something along these lines >
^ and this is alot closer to that goal than this v
Last edited by Linson; 06-23-2012 at 11:47 AM.
06-23-2012, 10:52 AM
#77
COTM Editor (Retired)
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
The post by Linson about how Z28's and IROC's will be the only desirable cars 20 years or more form now was kind of a kick in the *** to me. Especially where he said most hardcore thirdgen lovers really wouldn't desire a completely original RS later on at all. Kind of took away the special feeling I had for my car since it IS completely original, paint codes, part codes, everything. I thought it would have been a car someone would be dying for especially being a 25th Anniversary car. Makes me kind of feel like my car won't ever be that special. But really most of what he said is true, just kind of a kick in the *** like he said. :/
with an LS1 and all the required peripheral modifications, your car WILL be special. hell, its special now because good condition 3rds are RARE.
honestly, here is what i think you need before you think about any serious mods:
$10,000.
until then, you should just leave it be.
06-23-2012, 02:20 PM
#78
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
yepp,it takes money to do it right, and if you dont do it right its not worth doing
06-23-2012, 03:48 PM
#79
Member
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
I really think the light arguing going on here is a testament to thirdgen.org itself. It's not like the last post of this thread will end with everyone in agreement after a democratic vote. We're all pretty passionate about our opinions, but more importantly, to steer a guy in what we think is the right direction. Let's not forget about the simple advice that was asked for, though.
I'm sticking with my original statement. Decide what you want out of the car, make a realistic decision and stick with it. But make it do-able, and preferably not requiring the car to be off the road for too long. If you want to go wild, get anotherone and go wild on it, that way you still have a nice cruiser.
06-23-2012, 09:11 PM
#80
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
nice cruisers no longer exist in my area, sorry if i jump at someone whose so willing to change his, atleast i feel like he is i was young (er) too once and wanted to do so much to my first thirdgen, glad i never did, sad i sold it heres a picture 
heres how it looks now
heres how it looks now
06-23-2012, 10:55 PM
#81
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
Oh well that doesn't look to be too serious, a new fender and maybe a body side molding and she should be like new.
06-23-2012, 11:08 PM
#82
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
and the ugly wheels and cheap tires, or the rod knocking in the engine now, or the trans slipping, or the broken trunk lock, primered back bumper, almost gutted interior, its in bad hands
06-23-2012, 11:13 PM
#83
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
Oh, well nothing can be done about bad hands unless you fill them with cash.
06-24-2012, 12:15 AM
#84
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
i paid 120 for it, sold it to him for 2000 he said he'd take 8 grand for it, hes dreamin and pretty soon he wont be rollin anymore when she blows, then while shes sitting in my neighbors junkyard i'll give him a hundred bucks for it and have her back ready for a turbo 3x00 build
06-25-2012, 02:53 AM
#85
COTM Editor (Retired)
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
this reminds me of my first car, a 1987 Firebird, 305/Rochester 4bbl. mine had the same "spiderweb" wheels (but all the center caps were there) and two-tone blue over gray. it was not as beat up as this one, but had its share of mechanical problems.
^ this was the end result: a nice enough looking car with new paint, cowl hood, very nice interior mostly from junkyard donors. it had a 355 with a Holley carb, bad suspension (i was all about increasing the power), and a rear end swap which contributed to really bad brakes. the car was not exactly slow, but would probably have been smoked by a stock TPI car. and the car was pretty unreliable, the Holley carb being the source of most of the reliability issues.
but this is what i just dont get - and please hear me out, because i'm not trying to knock anyone. i truly want to understand.
^take this car - what some people here on TGO would call a nice cruiser. and people would say, leave it alone and drive it as such [a cruiser]. so, appearance-wise, while plain looking, it seems solid. but it lacks that more menacing, aggressive, wider stance of a Formula or IROC. and as is, performance-wise, the car is hardly a threat to your average mini van.
so, being someone who, i guess, was under the impression that people who like Camaros and Firebirds, like to go fast...the thing i am not understanding is...if that is your car, and you keep it stock, and you use it to go cruising and whatnot - where is the dopamine release
meaning where are you getting your kicks from?
p.s.
kmcn47, i'm not exactly sure what a turbo 3x00 build is, but it sounds expensive. with as much work as that base Firebird looks like it needs, wouldn't you be better off buying a Trans Am or a Formula, or even a more solid base model car?
^ this was the end result: a nice enough looking car with new paint, cowl hood, very nice interior mostly from junkyard donors. it had a 355 with a Holley carb, bad suspension (i was all about increasing the power), and a rear end swap which contributed to really bad brakes. the car was not exactly slow, but would probably have been smoked by a stock TPI car. and the car was pretty unreliable, the Holley carb being the source of most of the reliability issues.
but this is what i just dont get - and please hear me out, because i'm not trying to knock anyone. i truly want to understand.
^take this car - what some people here on TGO would call a nice cruiser. and people would say, leave it alone and drive it as such [a cruiser]. so, appearance-wise, while plain looking, it seems solid. but it lacks that more menacing, aggressive, wider stance of a Formula or IROC. and as is, performance-wise, the car is hardly a threat to your average mini van.
so, being someone who, i guess, was under the impression that people who like Camaros and Firebirds, like to go fast...the thing i am not understanding is...if that is your car, and you keep it stock, and you use it to go cruising and whatnot - where is the dopamine release
meaning where are you getting your kicks from? p.s.
kmcn47, i'm not exactly sure what a turbo 3x00 build is, but it sounds expensive. with as much work as that base Firebird looks like it needs, wouldn't you be better off buying a Trans Am or a Formula, or even a more solid base model car?
Last edited by Linson; 06-25-2012 at 02:56 AM.
06-25-2012, 08:26 PM
#86
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
[quote=Linson;5310703]
but this is what i just dont get - and please hear me out, because i'm not trying to knock anyone. i truly want to understand.
^take this car - what some people here on TGO would call a nice cruiser. and people would say, leave it alone and drive it as such [a cruiser]. so, appearance-wise, while plain looking, it seems solid. but it lacks that more menacing, aggressive, wider stance of a Formula or IROC. and as is, performance-wise, the car is hardly a threat to your average mini van.
so, being someone who, i guess, was under the impression that people who like Camaros and Firebirds, like to go fast...the thing i am not understanding is...if that is your car, and you keep it stock, and you use it to go cruising and whatnot - where is the dopamine release meaning where are you getting your kicks from?
That's actually a really good question. As probably one of the older members on this board, let me give you an answer from my perspective. This is also what I tried to impart to the original poster. I've had Camaros and Firebirds almost from their origin. I bought a 69 SS off the showroom floor and have many others since then. I've had fast ones and slow ones. I've drag raced, street raced and circle tracked Camaros and Firebirds. I've gotten my share of tickets and talked my way out of some others. I currently drive an 89 IROC convertible as my daily driver. I'm working a contract job about 700 miles from my home and living in a hotel. Here's my dopamine release. I go to all of the local car shows and get ooohs and ahhhs on my car. I get offers wanting to buy it for double what I paid for it along with a "nice car" from kids to old men (even older than me) and women (even younger than me). I like the fact that I can put the top down when I want and turn the AC or heater on when I need to. I go out in the morning and I know that my car will not only start but will get me to where I'm going and back with no drama,no broken parts, and no drama. And if I do have a problem, a simple trip to the local parts store takes care of it. My car is a stock 305 TBI auto but when I hit the gas I can go fast enough to merge on a freeway ramp, pass a car without effort, or still get into trouble with the law if I'm not careful. I have no leaks and everything works the way its supposed to. I take great pride in my ride and keep it as clean and maintained as I can. I don't purposely take it off the street for hop-ups or driveline changes that in many cases are never seen to fruition and another project car hits Craigs list. I enjoy my car every single day and a lot of you can't say that.
That being said, each to their own.
but this is what i just dont get - and please hear me out, because i'm not trying to knock anyone. i truly want to understand.
^take this car - what some people here on TGO would call a nice cruiser. and people would say, leave it alone and drive it as such [a cruiser]. so, appearance-wise, while plain looking, it seems solid. but it lacks that more menacing, aggressive, wider stance of a Formula or IROC. and as is, performance-wise, the car is hardly a threat to your average mini van.
so, being someone who, i guess, was under the impression that people who like Camaros and Firebirds, like to go fast...the thing i am not understanding is...if that is your car, and you keep it stock, and you use it to go cruising and whatnot - where is the dopamine release
meaning where are you getting your kicks from? That's actually a really good question. As probably one of the older members on this board, let me give you an answer from my perspective. This is also what I tried to impart to the original poster. I've had Camaros and Firebirds almost from their origin. I bought a 69 SS off the showroom floor and have many others since then. I've had fast ones and slow ones. I've drag raced, street raced and circle tracked Camaros and Firebirds. I've gotten my share of tickets and talked my way out of some others. I currently drive an 89 IROC convertible as my daily driver. I'm working a contract job about 700 miles from my home and living in a hotel. Here's my dopamine release. I go to all of the local car shows and get ooohs and ahhhs on my car. I get offers wanting to buy it for double what I paid for it along with a "nice car" from kids to old men (even older than me) and women (even younger than me). I like the fact that I can put the top down when I want and turn the AC or heater on when I need to. I go out in the morning and I know that my car will not only start but will get me to where I'm going and back with no drama,no broken parts, and no drama. And if I do have a problem, a simple trip to the local parts store takes care of it. My car is a stock 305 TBI auto but when I hit the gas I can go fast enough to merge on a freeway ramp, pass a car without effort, or still get into trouble with the law if I'm not careful. I have no leaks and everything works the way its supposed to. I take great pride in my ride and keep it as clean and maintained as I can. I don't purposely take it off the street for hop-ups or driveline changes that in many cases are never seen to fruition and another project car hits Craigs list. I enjoy my car every single day and a lot of you can't say that.
That being said, each to their own.
06-25-2012, 08:49 PM
#87
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
what got me my "high" in that car was and i know you wont beleive it but street racing, i did infact race the car on multiple occasions drag racing? no you said yourself what could i beat that way? nothing except an even slower v6 foxbody, so what did i do? i took to the corners, the ridge roads running up and down the "mountains" we call em hills cuz were used to em, around here and i out handled just about anything i took on, civics, integras, one of my best friends 96 eclipse awd, i never felt better then when i was pushed all the way against the driver door hands still gripping the wheel at almost full lock *** end barely holing the road around a hairpin on old rt250 it had ws6 suspension minus the disc rear, i think the gear ratio was 3.23 iirc it was just a 2.8 with a fresh rebuild so i knew i wouldn't blow it up running it hard occasionally i alwasy checked and re checked all the fluids and the tire psi both before and after i raced and the whole car got jacked up and cleaned under over and all around at least once a month, i baby'd it and i took care of it, it was my drug the car itself was my high, not mergin onto the highway at 85 and gunning it to 140 in my z28 which is fun albeit but to me its just not the same high, thats what i really miss, as far as mods all i had was a nice set of bilstiens on it and some goodyear eagle f1s i had a list of sphon parts i wanted but never could afford being in hgih school when i had it and not having a job, if i ever get it back its gonna get showcar cleaned by me if it takes 2 days straight that'll be first, i know it'll need work and i prefer to work on a clean car then a greasy dirty one, after a rebuild of the 2.8 maybe go hybrid maybe go turbo and a 5 spd to replace the 700r it had i'd be about set to be happy for the rest of my life with it maybe get some more comfy seats that'd hold me in better and some sfcs anyways sorry to ramble but thats it the dopamine release i got was simply from having it and knowing that when lil mr punk in his 4 banger pos rice rocket was high revving at the dq i could chase his *** back up the ridge and leave him shitting in his sagging pants because i kept bumper tagging him at 75. and that made me feel great
06-25-2012, 08:56 PM
#88
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
oh the first pic is when i still had it im not sure if everyone understood that, and the second is what it looks like now that someone who just wants to go fast and doesn't care about how it looks owns it and a 3x00 hybrid is the top end of a gm fwd 3100,3400,3500 series engine on the block of a 2.8 3.1 or 3.4 and whether or not it was turbo'd it'd make better power then stock because they flow better that and with being a 60* motor theres no need for a harmonic balancer because the engine is balanced already and reliability was never an issue with either my 2.8 or my best friend dereks fathers impala 3500 supercharged so i couldn't see it being one with a hybrid of the too, and i like v8s i really do but i like being able to daily drive (when in school and working as i do almost year round i travel about 85 miles a day) the car without worrying about taking out a loan for gas money. granted my mpg in the z28 has gotten better with new plugs and wires and filters and a mobil 1 oil change, its still not what it was with my little 2.8
06-26-2012, 12:37 PM
#89
COTM Editor (Retired)
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
That's actually a really good question. As probably one of the older members on this board, let me give you an answer from my perspective. This is also what I tried to impart to the original poster. I've had Camaros and Firebirds almost from their origin. I bought a 69 SS off the showroom floor and have many others since then. I've had fast ones and slow ones. I've drag raced, street raced and circle tracked Camaros and Firebirds. I've gotten my share of tickets and talked my way out of some others. I currently drive an 89 IROC convertible as my daily driver. I'm working a contract job about 700 miles from my home and living in a hotel. Here's my dopamine release. I go to all of the local car shows and get ooohs and ahhhs on my car. I get offers wanting to buy it for double what I paid for it along with a "nice car" from kids to old men (even older than me) and women (even younger than me). I like the fact that I can put the top down when I want and turn the AC or heater on when I need to. I go out in the morning and I know that my car will not only start but will get me to where I'm going and back with no drama,no broken parts, and no drama. And if I do have a problem, a simple trip to the local parts store takes care of it. My car is a stock 305 TBI auto but when I hit the gas I can go fast enough to merge on a freeway ramp, pass a car without effort, or still get into trouble with the law if I'm not careful. I have no leaks and everything works the way its supposed to. I take great pride in my ride and keep it as clean and maintained as I can. I don't purposely take it off the street for hop-ups or driveline changes that in many cases are never seen to fruition and another project car hits Craigs list. I enjoy my car every single day and a lot of you can't say that.
That being said, each to their own.
That being said, each to their own.
to be fair, my modified Formula 350 is super nice, super clean, has no leaks, throws no codes, and little to no drama related to the modifications, is equally or more so appreciated by strangers, and it has a smooth idle - which i'm sure you can understand. but also to be fair, doing it right was and is an ongoing and expensive proposition, and i can understand (especially if you're older) not wanting to deal with the entire process of modifying a car - be it in your garage with your own two hands or dealing with mechanics (who may know less about your car than you do).
when i do reach the point when making modifications for speed become more trouble than they're worth, well, i thought that was what Vettes were for.
06-26-2012, 01:00 PM
#90
Supreme Member
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
Just put a 3.73 rear gear in it and a cat back exhaust and you will have a fun car to drive around. Neither of those mods will hurt the car or the over all value.
It will sound cool and you will be able to spin the tires when looking for a little excitement.
That's what I would do to it.
It will sound cool and you will be able to spin the tires when looking for a little excitement.
That's what I would do to it.
06-26-2012, 01:14 PM
#91
COTM Editor (Retired)
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
what got me my "high" in that car was and i know you wont beleive it but street racing, i did infact race the car on multiple occasions drag racing? no you said yourself what could i beat that way? nothing except an even slower v6 foxbody, so what did i do? i took to the corners, the ridge roads running up and down the "mountains" we call em hills cuz were used to em, around here and i out handled just about anything i took on, civics, integras, one of my best friends 96 eclipse awd, i never felt better then when i was pushed all the way against the driver door hands still gripping the wheel at almost full lock *** end barely holing the road around a hairpin on old rt250 it had ws6 suspension minus the disc rear, i think the gear ratio was 3.23 iirc it was just a 2.8 with a fresh rebuild so i knew i wouldn't blow it up running it hard occasionally i alwasy checked and re checked all the fluids and the tire psi both before and after i raced and the whole car got jacked up and cleaned under over and all around at least once a month, i baby'd it and i took care of it, it was my drug the car itself was my high, not mergin onto the highway at 85 and gunning it to 140 in my z28 which is fun albeit but to me its just not the same high, thats what i really miss, as far as mods all i had was a nice set of bilstiens on it and some goodyear eagle f1s i had a list of sphon parts i wanted but never could afford being in hgih school when i had it and not having a job, if i ever get it back its gonna get showcar cleaned by me if it takes 2 days straight that'll be first, i know it'll need work and i prefer to work on a clean car then a greasy dirty one, after a rebuild of the 2.8 maybe go hybrid maybe go turbo and a 5 spd to replace the 700r it had i'd be about set to be happy for the rest of my life with it maybe get some more comfy seats that'd hold me in better and some sfcs anyways sorry to ramble but thats it the dopamine release i got was simply from having it and knowing that when lil mr punk in his 4 banger pos rice rocket was high revving at the dq i could chase his *** back up the ridge and leave him shitting in his sagging pants because i kept bumper tagging him at 75. and that made me feel great
also, i am almost positive that your 2.8 Firebird did not come with a Factory WS6 suspension. and the 245/50/16's alone would give a Formula or IROC a handling edge over the (215/60/15?) equiped base model.
another thing that did not follow for me was when you mentioned that the car is in its rather beat up current condition [because the current owner is someone who only cares about going fast.] if you take Picture A: the car when you owned it, and compare it to Picture B: the car in the hands of it's current owner - if i had to guess, i would say that the owner of the car in Picture A cared more about going fast than the owner of Pictuer B. i would say that the owner of Picture B doesnt care about speed, or anything at all for that matter when it comes to that car.
when you say you want to buy that car back (or even if it was given to you as a gift) i cant help but think that you could get everything you want out of an LB9 Formula or something like that - and for ALOT cheaper.
not accusing anyone of anything or putting words in anyones mouth, but just by temperature check, while i agree that now is probably not the time for the OP to start doing mods to his RS, i want to dispel the myth that, as a given, a modified 3rd Gen = unreliable, hack job, r3dn3ck jalopy. if you're not careful that is exactly what you will have, but it is not a given.
06-26-2012, 01:17 PM
#92
COTM Editor (Retired)
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
Just put a 3.73 rear gear in it and a cat back exhaust and you will have a fun car to drive around. Neither of those mods will hurt the car or the over all value.
It will sound cool and you will be able to spin the tires when looking for a little excitement.
That's what I would do to it.
It will sound cool and you will be able to spin the tires when looking for a little excitement.
That's what I would do to it.
+
he'll also have to get the chip tuned for the speedometer. don't all 89's and up have electronically controlled speedos?
06-26-2012, 03:32 PM
#93
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
it wasn't technically ws6, it was called ws7 it was everything that the ws6 option was minus disc rear brakes iirc, can anyone elaborate? and as far as it going fast i may have driven it hard on occasion but i still cared about it being a nice car which is why i worked hard to keep it nice, he cares only about beating on it and going "fast" to him which is why hes let it go to **** and while i could buy a nice formula for what it'd cost to do to that car what i'd want to, its just that, not what I'D WANT to do you see
06-26-2012, 04:44 PM
#94
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
If it was a SE, I believe it could have the 2.8 with the WS6/WS7 suspension. The WS7 was a the WS6 with rear drum brakes. In the early years WS6 included disk brake. Basically everything you've said about the WS7 is correct.
06-26-2012, 07:34 PM
#95
COTM Editor (Retired)
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
[quote=kmcn47;5312094]
okay. i did not know that. i would have been suprised to look underneath a 6-banger and find that massive WS6 front sway bar.
right. i'm just stating that most people who care about going fast also care about their cars being nice. the two usually go hand in hand. check out most of the seriously built cars on TGO, like the "Car of the Month" calibre ones. most are extremely fast and ALL extremely well kept. obviously, most guys who want their car to be badass, may drive it hard, but they will take better care of it than some broad who uses her '88 Firebird to drive her filthy kids to school and MacDonalds.
oh, dude, that reminds me - true story. there's this 91 RS in my town, that (for some reason) attends all of the car shows. the owner is some crazy lady - seriously you can just tell that there are serious issues with alcohol. but she always shows up for the car shows (pays the entry fee and everything) in this car with her kid and husband - i'm telling ya, these people are mutants. they honestly look like post-apocolyptic characters from a movie. kid is bald, but with a rat tail, but its not even a rat tail, its a bald head all the way back to the back of his neck, and then long hair past his shoulders - really wierd. point is, she's been showing up for years and was the ONLY Third Gen until i got my Formula on the road, and while the car is bone stock, it is never clean, i dont think its ever been washed; it has these skull and electric guitar type stickers (like from a childs sticker book) all over the sail panels and the interior, and actual sea shells and dead star fish decorating the dash mat. an American tragedy. the worst part is that the car itself seems pretty solid. it would probably clean up nice in the hands of someone who cared about Third Gens as opposed to just happening to have one. that goes for whether they leave it stock or modify the **** out of it.
oooohhh. i see. i get the picture now.
i can see that it is a matter of fact that you would want your old Firebird, but from a logical stand point i still dont see why. its probably that i am not totally clear on what you want, but if what you want is A, B, and C, then, outside of [the best possible fuel economy, even at the expense of power] and ["its my old car and i just gotta get her back"], then it seems illogical. in all likelyhood you could get a nice Formula 350 for 3 grand (https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...mula-rear.html), or even a V6 Firebird that's a little nicer than your old one and be way ahead on on achieving your goal. but, i'll just take your word for it because i dont want you to feel like i keep insisting that you explain yourself to me.
it wasn't technically ws6, it was called ws7 it was everything that the ws6 option was minus disc rear brakes iirc
and as far as it going fast i may have driven it hard on occasion but i still cared about it being a nice car which is why i worked hard to keep it nice
oh, dude, that reminds me - true story. there's this 91 RS in my town, that (for some reason) attends all of the car shows. the owner is some crazy lady - seriously you can just tell that there are serious issues with alcohol. but she always shows up for the car shows (pays the entry fee and everything) in this car with her kid and husband - i'm telling ya, these people are mutants. they honestly look like post-apocolyptic characters from a movie. kid is bald, but with a rat tail, but its not even a rat tail, its a bald head all the way back to the back of his neck, and then long hair past his shoulders - really wierd. point is, she's been showing up for years and was the ONLY Third Gen until i got my Formula on the road, and while the car is bone stock, it is never clean, i dont think its ever been washed; it has these skull and electric guitar type stickers (like from a childs sticker book) all over the sail panels and the interior, and actual sea shells and dead star fish decorating the dash mat. an American tragedy. the worst part is that the car itself seems pretty solid. it would probably clean up nice in the hands of someone who cared about Third Gens as opposed to just happening to have one. that goes for whether they leave it stock or modify the **** out of it.
he cares only about beating on it and going "fast" to him which is why hes let it go to ****
and while i could buy a nice formula for what it'd cost to do to that car what i'd want to, its just that, not what I'D WANT to do you see
Last edited by Linson; 06-26-2012 at 10:18 PM.
06-26-2012, 10:02 PM
#96
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Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
[quote=Linson;5312313]
okay. i did not know that. i would have been suprised to look underneath a 6-banger and find that massive WS6 front sway bar.
right. i'm just stating that most people who car about going fast also care about their cars being nice. the two usually go hand in hand. check out most of the seriously built cars on TGO, like the "Car of the Month" calibre ones. most are extremely fast and ALL extremely well kept. obviously, most guys who want their car to be badass, may drive it hard, but they will take better care of it than some broad who uses her '88 Firebird to drive her filthy kids to school and MacDonalds.
oh, dude, that reminds me - true story. there's this 91 RS in my town, that (for some reason) attends all of the car shows. the owner is some crazy lady - seriously you can just tell that there are serious issues with alcohol. but she always shows up for the car shows (pays the entry fee and everything) in this car with her kid and husband - i'm telling ya, these people are mutants. they honestly look like post-apocolyptic characters from a movie. kid is bald, but with a rat tail, but its not even a rat tail, its a bald head all the way back to the back of his neck, and then long hair past his shoulders - really wierd. point is, she's been showing up for years and was the ONLY Third Gen until i got my Formula on the road, and while the car is bone stock, it is never clean, i dont think its ever been washed; it has these skull and electric guitar type stickers (like from a childs sticker book) all over the sail panels and the interior, and actual sea shells and dead star fish decorating the dash mat. an American tragedy. the worst part is that the car itself seems pretty solid. it would probably clean up nice in the hands of someone who cared about Third Gens as opposed to just happening to have one. that goes for whether they leave it stock or modify the **** out of it.
oooohhh. i see. i get the picture now.
i can see that it is a matter of fact that you would want your old Firebird, but from a logical stand point i still dont see why. its probably that i am not totally clear on what you want, but if what you want is A, B, and C, then, outside of [the best possible fuel economy, even at the expense of power] and ["its my old car and i just gotta get her back"], then it seems illogical. in all likelyhood you could get a nice Formula 350 for 3 grand (https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...mula-rear.html), or even a V6 Firebird that's a little nicer than your old one and be way ahead on on achieving your goal. but, i'll just take your word for it because i dont want you to feel like i keep insisting that you explain yourself to me. have you ever seen this movie?http://www.hulu.com/watch/174633 i can sympathize, when i see the car in such bad shape it hurts me and i cant explain why the z28 isn't the same way its like were connected, i figured i'd care if anything mroe for it, its almost an exact clone of my mothers car from when i was born til i was almost seven lots of memories in it, but i just cant connect to it, perhaps i'm desensatized to it now i dont know
where there SEs in 89? as far as i know it basically had everything an SE would have but it wasn't an SE didn't have the wheels.
okay. i did not know that. i would have been suprised to look underneath a 6-banger and find that massive WS6 front sway bar.
right. i'm just stating that most people who car about going fast also care about their cars being nice. the two usually go hand in hand. check out most of the seriously built cars on TGO, like the "Car of the Month" calibre ones. most are extremely fast and ALL extremely well kept. obviously, most guys who want their car to be badass, may drive it hard, but they will take better care of it than some broad who uses her '88 Firebird to drive her filthy kids to school and MacDonalds.
oh, dude, that reminds me - true story. there's this 91 RS in my town, that (for some reason) attends all of the car shows. the owner is some crazy lady - seriously you can just tell that there are serious issues with alcohol. but she always shows up for the car shows (pays the entry fee and everything) in this car with her kid and husband - i'm telling ya, these people are mutants. they honestly look like post-apocolyptic characters from a movie. kid is bald, but with a rat tail, but its not even a rat tail, its a bald head all the way back to the back of his neck, and then long hair past his shoulders - really wierd. point is, she's been showing up for years and was the ONLY Third Gen until i got my Formula on the road, and while the car is bone stock, it is never clean, i dont think its ever been washed; it has these skull and electric guitar type stickers (like from a childs sticker book) all over the sail panels and the interior, and actual sea shells and dead star fish decorating the dash mat. an American tragedy. the worst part is that the car itself seems pretty solid. it would probably clean up nice in the hands of someone who cared about Third Gens as opposed to just happening to have one. that goes for whether they leave it stock or modify the **** out of it.
oooohhh. i see. i get the picture now.
i can see that it is a matter of fact that you would want your old Firebird, but from a logical stand point i still dont see why. its probably that i am not totally clear on what you want, but if what you want is A, B, and C, then, outside of [the best possible fuel economy, even at the expense of power] and ["its my old car and i just gotta get her back"], then it seems illogical. in all likelyhood you could get a nice Formula 350 for 3 grand (https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...mula-rear.html), or even a V6 Firebird that's a little nicer than your old one and be way ahead on on achieving your goal. but, i'll just take your word for it because i dont want you to feel like i keep insisting that you explain yourself to me.
where there SEs in 89? as far as i know it basically had everything an SE would have but it wasn't an SE didn't have the wheels.
06-26-2012, 10:02 PM
#97
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Car: 84 Trans Am, 84 Fiero, 86 944
Engine: 5.0, 2.5, 2.5
Transmission: 5spd
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
also yes every car in the COTM this month deserves to win
06-27-2012, 12:12 AM
#99
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Los Angeles
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Car: 1987 IROC-Z Camaro
Engine: 305 LB9
Transmission: 700r4
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
17 year old camaro owner here too. In my case I have no qualms about modification, but I also bought an IROC that had been sitting for 12 years and was home to a large family of rats. So much of it was trash that aftermarket parts became somewhat necesary. To me, as long as you keep the aesthetics of the camaro, upgrading is welcome as long as you do it right. In my eyes GM screwed up in a lot of ways with the design of these cars. Really inconveniant to work on.
06-27-2012, 12:37 AM
#100
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: So Cal
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Car: 89 IROC Z28
Engine: 357 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Posi
Re: 17 year old Camaro owner needs advice
As Long you're never going sell the car keep it stock.when I was 17 I had a 59 Chevy Impala Convertible with 283. That was 45 years ago, if I had the car it be worth of ton of money instead of the $400 I sold it for.