I have seen a few 89 turbo T/As run back in the day and especially one guy who had a modified car about fifteen years with a laptop in the passenger seat of his car. His car was blindingly fast but raced in a level above my 90 ZR-1 having a power adder. Which is faster a bone stock 89 turbo T/A or a bone stock fully loaded SLP Firebird. I have never seen one of those run but I did see one at a car show once with the T-ram on it. If anyone has data on this please post it or if you have seen them line up against one another please share your experience.

 

that's an interesting question. I think "according to the numbers" the 91-92 Firehawk has about 50 more horsepower even after adjusting for the understated factory rating of the TTA. I don't know if the factory Firehawk ratings are accurate or how well they translate to the vehicles actual performance. if I had to bet though, stock for stock, i'm thinking Firehawk comes out on top. with mods, dollar for dollar, i'm thinking TTA.

hopefully somebody with more firsthand experience can answer your question more thoroughly.

 

91k stock TTA in good tune/proper running order and you can actually drive will clip relatively consistent 13.3-13.4 qrtr mile times on street tires.

At least mine did when I got it and tuned it up.

Better gas and tweaking what came from the factory could improve upon those times as well without adding any parts to the car, so it would be subjective.

Top speed, I would guess the TTA would take that crown, they clocked them at 170+ on straightaways at Indy. 100mph boost gauge quivers, 130 is 6 psi, cruising at 150 is easy with power on tap still Best damned drive home in a new car I ever had

 

I am embarresed to say that I don't know what all the SLP cars came with or if there were options offered on the cars. Maybe there were optional cams, heads etc. The TTAs were of course the buick grand national engines with no engine options as fas as I know. I really don't know much about either but I am now leaning toward getting one. If anyone knows the specs on the two cars especially the SLP cars please post some info. I may sell a 90 ZR-1 and get one.

 

Here is some reading for you:

http://www.92firehawk.com/

 

Great info amorgetrs, you could get an aluminum block and or suspension up-grades.

 

They are about the same. I think the TTA only hit 170 with a custom manual swap.

Motor Trend test results:

Acceleration (0 to 60 mph): 4.9 seconds
Quarter mile: 13.4 seconds @ 105 mph (169 km/h)
Braking 60–0: 135 ft (41 m).
Skid pad: 0.94g
Slalom: 68.3 mph (109.9 km/h)

Ross, Daniel Charlton "Pontiac Formula Firehawk; The Genie in the Bottle Delivers" Motor Trend December 1991: pp. 50–52. Print

TTA http://89tta.turbobuicks.net
performance: 0-60: 5.5 sec
1/4 mile: 13.5 sec
60-0: 139'
roadholding: 0.86g
weight/hp: 13.4:1

 

My personal *opinion* is the Firehawk is faster out of the box. But the TTA would be faster for about $400 in waste-gate upgrade, chip upgrade and some other minor changes.

John

 

One of the three Stock TTA Pace Cars did hit 170+ during testing at Indy on the straights.

 

Nothing like that Buick Turbo Power (I hear they are bringing the GNX back)... I really wish they would have done more cars with this engine and even gone forward with the 4.3 Turbo (that ended up in the Cyclone and Typhoon) in the Camaro...

 

I still think that in a straight line the TTA was faster. Motorweek got 4.6 seconds to 60 out of it I believe. In a 1/4 mile race I think the TTA would simply walk away. A combination of the automatic transmission, and the torque once the turbo spooled.

On a road course? I'd say the the stock build Firehawks are faster. Top speed is debatable. Has anyone with a stock fire hawk, or any mag ever actually tested the top speed out? I'd imagine with 350hp and the right gearing its easily 160.

 

They should be about equal assuming good launches on both. Firehawk will trap a higher mph due to more HP, TTA will get there quick due to the turbo's power under the curve.

350hp is more than enough to push 180mph, problem is the gearing is too low - probably tops out at 160 to 165 with the 3.54 gears. 175+ easy with 3.08s...

 

My 2cents,
The hawk is faster in the 1/4 and top end stock but TTA is way easier to be consistent doing it.
For the Hawk, 13.20s were normal and a hail mary pass of 12.9 by 1 car mag.
Maybe Bruce will chime in with top speed info. I know what they can do but I better let someone else say to confirm it.

 

I thought I was the only person who knew the TTA's HP was grossly underrated since day 1. It would smoke the 5.7 cars, but the 5.7 were rated about the same. It never added up. But for years everyone keep repeating the falsehood.

http://www.gtasourcepage.com/8920thTACDReview.html :
"Judging by our performance figures, we estimate that the engine produces closer to 300 hp."

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...turbo_feature/
" TTA motor reportedly made 301 hp on the PAS engine dyno."



That's about what I always estimated myself.

 

welp, I think most people here on TGO are well aware of the "exceedingly modest" power ratings of the TTA.

what I am wondering is how the ultra-rare Carroll Shelby supercharged Formula VHOs' performance would stack up against a TTA and a Firehawk. better? worse? about the same?

a couple years ago there was one for sale here on TGO. I think he was letting it go for like 15K. kicking myself in the *** for not jumping on that. how cool would that be in my garage - white 89 TTA next to a black 89 VHO?

 

I don't think Carroll Supercharging had anything to do with Carroll Shelby.

 

What are some numbers for TTAs with wastegate mods and other mods that are usually done to the 3.8 cars that are easy and not so expensive?

 

You are correct. Shows what i know.

I have read that the specs were 400 hp & 475 tq.

I want that black 89 that was up for sale here a couple years ago.

 

1) A new Camaro weighs 3700 lbs, with a 300-325 Hp V6 is about a 14.5 second quarter mile.
2) A 1989 TTA weighs about 3400-3500 lbs and with 260hp runs a quarter mile of 13.4 (as per the motor Trend reference above.)

NOTE: The racing "Rule of Thumb" for every 100lbs you lose in weight, you drop about .1 second, so even if you dropped 300 lbs from the new CAmaro you still cannot even start to compete with an old TTA with less HP. Also for every 10HP gain, you drop another .1 in the quarter mile.

3) Furthermore the Camaro SS boasts 400hp... which gets the quarter mile close to 12.75 - 13.25 (depending on driver and day.)

4) the Firehawk had a 360 HP and it too was about 13.2 in the quarter mile. Which would be consistent with the new Camaro in the quarter mile.

John

 

Has a heavily modified TTA ever had over 600 plus RWH and if so what mods did it take?

 

I'll let you know if I ever get a trans built for mine

Roller cam, cnc heads and intake, big neck IC, downpipe/exhaust and PT-67 turbo and some stall.

If I ever get the trans done for it, I will be a happy camper.

Same mods apply to TTA and a TB, some of those guys are shooting for 4 figures at the wheels. Running a Stage 1 or 2 block at that point or one from TA Performance

 

Sure they are out there... someone was making V6 Buick Blocks with 6 Bolt Mains, that were capable of handling 1200HP a few years back... So someone out there has done it... I would suggest going to a GN Forum

 

Some Hawk top speed info. Says 158 in 5th gear.
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/92HPPFirehawkReview.html

 

I remember back in the 80s and 90s when the Buick 6 bangers were very strong at Indy. I remember at the start of one race when they were about to take the green flag someone; and it seems like they were on the pole, gassed there car a little much and it spun around and hit the wall while on the last parade lap. VERY EMBARRASSING!!!
Are there any aftermarket heads, 4340 cranks etc? Who are the main aftermarket venders for the Buick V6s?

 

Not sure but I know Kenne Bell used to have a bunch of stuff for Buick.. Not sure what they have any more for the V6... I have some V8 Kenne Bell on my 1967 Buick Riv, Nothing like having 4300lbs go 15 seconds in the quarter mile

 

When I was a kid a friend down the streets mother had a 225 electra with a 455. My mothers 72 Bonneville with a 400 would beat it. We would get those old cars and take the air cleaner lids off and let that quadrajet roar. Those old cars sounded like they were T-rexes. Young kids have no idea what I am talking about when I talk about the old carb days. Kenne Bell has been around a long time and I had forgotten his name untill you mentioned it. I sure didn't know he did the 3.8L stuff.

 

You may be thinking of Ken Duttweiler. He was/is VERY big into the GN motors.
I still have his cell number and talked with him last year.