Soooo for many of us, the topic of a 1986 Model with a 350 has been an annoying topic that seems to come up on an almost weekly basis. I was under the impression that it would've been illegal for GM to have built such a car, due to their required EPA Certification. Certainly GM would not have paid for EPA certification for only 50 elusive test cars. Well, it appears they did. GM was in fact certified to sell 350ci F bodies in 1986.

I reached out to the EPA several weeks ago regarding this, and have had a few brief, overly complex emails with David Wright from Light Duty Vehicle Compliance. After confirming that yes, all manufacturers ARE required to certify drivetrain combinations with the EPA, I asked him specifically about the 1986 F body cars, as I was unable to find the information for myself. LIterally a needle in a haystack. I told him we'd raise a glass to him if he could specifically answer that question. There are SO many various combinations and questions across so many makes, but I wanted to know about 1986 F bodies. I didn't hear back for a few weeks, and then today, apparently a co-worker of his DID find the info. Side note: I'm curious as to the conversation they must've had in their office regarding my request! Anyhow, the bottom line is the GM DID in fact certify the F body to be sold with a 350/a4 in 1986! Now the truth is still most likely what we've always known it to be: Not one was ever sold, and not one was ever intended to have been sold. We may never know for absolute certain, as what GM does with said certification isn't the concern of the EPA. They don't care if GM builds 1 or 1000 of em. What it DOES however bring up, is that there COULD have been, for a time at least, 50 Camaros (as the tale goes) that were in fact actual VIN'd 1986 model Camaros with 350 engines. -and they still could've simply been old pre '86 cars stuffed with a 350 test mill. -but it's POSSIBLE!

I thought that was interesting. Here's to you Dave and Dave's coworker!

...and here's a snippet of the certificate listing. He said it only lists the Firebird, but it wouldn't have mattered. Could've been a Camaro and would still have been covered under the certificate.

 

Interesting, but I'd caution to read too much into it. Anything that gives the neophytes a reason to believe a tall tale is something I'd keep close to the chest. All it means is that one argument against the existence is potentially less sound than it was. It doesn't really stand as new evidence that they exist. At this point in the game, if a single example had been built, we would have seen it by now. The chances are so slim it's really beyond ridiculous to think there's any truth to "the 50".

 

I agree with everything you said. Completely. ....that being said, I had assumed my inquiry would've provided firm proof of NOT existing. In fact it is possible. I still have no belief that any ever existed, and still don't believe that the "50" were in fact 1986 cars. Why would you wait 'til 86 to test? Heck I see no reason they wouldn't have been testing all along, going back to 1982! -and I imagine that car manufacturers may often certify certain combinations and then never ultimately build any. Again, I agree with every point you make. I just think it's interesting and wanted to share.

 

Apparently someone DID try to order one in 1986, here is the paper trail (notice that the CHSML is at the top of the rear window too)
Here is the order Acknowledgement (note that this is NOT a production commitment) This took place in mid March of 1986.
Apparently there was an "Error" almost a month and a half after the acknowledgement was released.
And finally it was cancelled in mid May of 1986.

 

That late in 86 it almost would have been an 87 Model Year car. If they were even remotely close to being a late 86 MY option, I would think that car would have been built. At any rate it shows you couldn't even order it if you tried.

 

I am not sure when the cutoff of the current year to the next year production is. A few years back I almost bought a new car, and had it built to spec. It was 2017, and they rolled out the new model literature in the middle of July for the 2018's, but you would not take delivery until October.

My friend actually tried to order a 350 GTA in 1986 as well, but they did an incompatible thing too. I will see if he still has his paperwork. Just sent him a text.

 

Ordering varies with custom and then start-up for each year, and it's different for each model. For example, I have the 2019 cutoff and 2020 start up for Chevrolet, Cadillac,Buick, and GMC models. Fleet often gets earlier order entries, then retail orders, and that's usually a month or two before production on any of them begins.

Some models, like the 2019 Corvette which began Jan 2018, is still order-able and in production without any custom for 2019 orders and final build-out. If it runs into December 2019, it will have been in-production for nearly 2 full calendar years.

 

I have a build sheet for a 1986 Camaro that shows a production date of 5/23. That's the latest I have. Doesn't mean they didn't keep going thru July.

 

Anyone remember this comparison? 1986 mustang vs a preproduction 350 IROC

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/


there is is a hot rod magazine road test also from what I remember

 

I remember that C&D article very well, including the Chevy bailed on the 5.7 ending!

 

I cannot speak for the Camaro, however I can confirm for the Firebird, there was not a single L98 produced Firebird with the L98 RPO in 1986...

 

I know there were never any 350 cars offered to the public for sale in the 86 model year, but wouldn't it be safe to assume gm was testing the l98 long before the 87's went into production? Car companies have been (sadly) scrapping prototypes for decades. Heck, it was just a couple years ago dodge loaned Richard Rawlins a preproduction hellcat then told him he needed to give it back cause it was gonna get scrapped.

 

And reading that article made me laugh, and feel old...wordstar word processing??!! Lol

 

GM had plenty of test cars. They had (have) thirdgens they updated every year anytime they had something they wanted to try out. GMPP had one of the "92" heritage protos that got repainted and stuffed with a new engine at least three different times. Started as the white/black proto, then got an LT1, later the ramjet... Same thing with the stupid Firebird Kammback, a couple of those cars were built and cosmetically updated a few times to represent new concepts... So who knows what gm has(had). They could have had an 83 Z28 dolled up as an Iroc with a 350tpi from the corvette assembly line...

 

It says right in the order error report:

"L98 INVALID OPTION"

That pretty much sums it up. L98 wasn't available to order.

GD

 

If you look at the order history, it was a valid option at one point, and as time went on, it became invalid. IT was orderable in March, but then it seems that something changed and was later cancelled when either parts were NA or there was some other issue going on.

 

Thanks for your efforts on these documents, Abubaca. Very interesting.


So.....my cousin's brother in law, knew a GM executive who saved one of the '86 350 cars from being crushed and got it sold out the back door. I know it's true because it has a 5.7 TUNED PORT INJECTION emblem on the bumper.......


Just kidding, we've all heard those stories before.

 

Doesn't the certification mean that a Firebird with a 350 was built and sent to the EPA for testing?

That car was probably crushed, but it would have been an 86 with a 350, which means at least 1 was built for testing?

GD

 

Possibly... however at the time I believe most testing was done in-house at GM, therefore they could test the emissions and the fuel economy of the engine on a bench, and never actually install it into a vehicle. If I understand how ludicrous it all isl, Fuel economy was actually a calculation, not a real world test, they would test the efficiency of the car on a static machine, and they would test the fuel economy "in a vacuum" then they would calculate the Cd (Coefficient of Drag) and the Weight of the vehicle to calculate the estimated fuel economy. There may be EPA staff on hand to witness the tests, but they may have never actually installed it into a vehicle.

This is in part why you see things such as no US sold 1987 GTAs or Trans Ams with the L98 engine and either the sub-woofer system, the rear shade or T-tops. You add what is technically almost a minuscule amount of weight and all of a sudden it no longer meets the requirements for fuel economy. It is all based upon calculations. If you look up the specifications of a vehicle, you will find that there is a net weight/loss associated with every option, this was used to help calculate what could and could not be installed in a vehicle.

In short it keeps costs down, In the end, a calculation is a whole lot less expensive than churning out cars to have them tested one at a time.

Even HP ratings were all done at GM, and not an independent source. I think now with newer cars HP ratings are all certified through a third party.

John

 

So the 91/92 Formula could have the 3.42 and T-Tops because it didn't have a Wonder Bar? LoL. Or something to that effect anyway? It was just lighter than the equivalent IROC in some way and thus could afford the weight of the T-Tops.

That's interesting about the calculations - though I'm surprised they don't just work out a deal where the cars go to EPA for testing, then on to the NHTSA for crash testing. You can't do crash testing with a calculation..... well you probably could but I wouldn't take their word for it from a calculation.

GD

 

EPA said it was the engine/drivetrain combo, so not necessarily a specific car, and that GM option did NOT certify every car under a given certificate. -in other words, Firebird OR Camaro, but probably not both, but either would be covered. -and then of course as Okfoz mentioned....