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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
What does/did a 12518296 crate engine come with from GM back in 99? She said the car felt the same performance-wise after the crate engine as it did before. But then I see this number listed as an L03 replacement on Summit - but then it also says "hydraulic flat tappet" which it clearly is not. Of course it's listed as not available from Chevrolet Performance, and "discontinued" on the GM parts sites.
So what cam is in this thing? Anyone know?
More curious than anything - I'll probably just yank it anyway.
I will pull the valve cover when it gets here and see what the head castings are.
GD
Last edited by GeneralDisorder; 05-16-2019 at 01:49 PM.
I have seen reference in some discussions that you actually couldn't buy a real LB9 long block from GM. But I don't know if there's truth to that. Seems odd. I mean the long block was purchased in 99 so the car would have only been 8 years old. Seems like it should have been possible to get the exact engine it came with. Question is - what would the "real" LB9 part number have been?
I guess only pulling the valve cover to reveal the head casting numbers will tell us. It wouldn't seem like GM would "reuse" that part number for multiple engines but a pretty respected shop around here ordered that engine back in 99:
I think that sort of makes sense (no LB9 long block in later years, only L03). From a sales volume point of view, the L03 serviced full size pickups (Silverados and Sieras) and vans (Chevy G10/G20 and GMC G15/G25), and B cars like Caprice, Paresiene, RoadMaster, and their wagon variants including Olds. I "think" the Cadillac used the L05. Anyway, lots of potential sales volume, especially on the commercial truck end.
LB9 serviced F-cars, and that's it. So I can see Powertrain dropping the LB9 replacement fairly early on, and continuing with just the L03. As this owner experienced, with the LB9 exhaust and TPI, there's probably not 10 horse worth of difference at 4500rpm.
I think that sort of makes sense (no LB9 long block in later years, only L03). From a sales volume point of view, the L03 serviced full size pickups (Silverados and Sieras) and vans (Chevy G10/G20 and GMC G15/G25), and B cars like Caprice, Paresiene, RoadMaster, and their wagon variants including Olds. I "think" the Cadillac used the L05. Anyway, lots of potential sales volume, especially on the commercial truck end.
LB9 serviced F-cars, and that's it. So I can see Powertrain dropping the LB9 replacement fairly early on, and continuing with just the L03. As this owner experienced, with the LB9 exhaust and TPI, there's probably not 10 horse worth of difference at 4500rpm.
Yeah that does make sense. I can't see that working in the market today - boy howdy would people put up a stink. And I don't even know what the implications with emissions compliance would be. I wonder if that has something to do with it's inability to pass the testing. She never could get tags on it after the engine swap. Drove it for like 5 years with bad tags.
I have a set of 305 tpi heads and cam if you are looking to restore it to stockish. Not sure if the pistons in this one are flattops like the 90-2 350s or not.
Yeah I'm not sure on the L03 pistons. Since it's no longer numbers matching on the engine I'll probably just throw in a mild Vortec for daily duties..... I guess I'll see how it feels when I get it running. I suspect I'll want more power
Thanks for the offer though - if I decide to do that - I assume these are the later roller cam heads and the L98 cam shared by the late LB9?
She said she didn't notice a difference in power after the swap. Maybe the original motor was down on power. I'm sure the TPI and the N10 exhaust helped the L03 but by how much?
Yes, 91 305 tpi roller cam and the tpi heads from a 91 TA (not swirl port). The engine had a rod knocking but oddly still ran stupid smooth .
As you know, the vortec 350 long block is a wise choice and the lower sdpc vortec base (ported) will be a nice setup.
Glad the SPID was there. There's no replacing that.
The letter is very interesting find. Particularly the timing chain info. It doesn't mention the cover...so this single row roller would fit under the factory cover then?
And the SPID sheet was in the back seat. So I can glue that to a new console cover.
GD
I'm not positive, but I think the sticker moved to the rear locking cargo door in 91. I'm working on a 91 GTA for a guy and that's where his is.
On my 90 Formula it's located on the inside of the console wall (passenger seat side) not on the bottom of the lid.
Jegs says it's the same as used on the ZZ crate engines.
I'll take a look at the cover when I get a chance and see if it looks stock.
GD
Thanks. I'd sort of like to know. I'll want to change the set in my car at some point, and I'm not sure what the options are under a factory cover. If this list of part numbers is still good, then this might be a viable option.
Fuel tank seems a bit odd. I ran a bore scope down it and what I could see actually didn't seem too bad. There was a lot of light grey sludge on the walls of the filler neck that smelled like varnished fuel. Not sure exactly what that stuff is. Can't say I remember running across it before. There appears to be a hose section coupling the filler neck but I did not see this on the bore scope images. Filler neck seems suitably rigid so I'm not sure what to make of it. Maybe a replacement tank back in the 90's? Tell me what you see:
GD
Last edited by GeneralDisorder; 06-10-2019 at 01:23 AM.
I've seen people cut the necks off (had a parts car like that) to get the tanks out. There is also a tube inside the neck that most people don't know is there, did it get hooked back up? I highly doubt it. Real bummer when it's a baffled tank that gets hacked up.
Engine seems to run quite well. No noises, oil is clean and no fuel smell, etc.
I'm thinking about a GM 94666492 cam (Mercury marine 350 roller cam) because cheap, and some L30 Vortec heads just to see what this LO3 can do with just dropping on some 305 Vortec heads and a cam. Don't want to hurt the T5 and I'm quite certain the 305 with heads and cam will make more than the L98 GM didn't feel comfortable using with the T5 so..... big engine will have to wait for the TKO-600.
Where does one find L30 Vortec heads? Like online. I don't really have time for Junk Yards anymore. Or would LB9 heads work equally as well? I have no problem buying the SDPC Vortec base and doing some porting.
I had a very hard time finding L30s...they were my original plan too. L31s are a dime a dozen. Remans online, or china knockoffs all seemed like too much money to me...I'd have rather invested in some aluminum heads. But everyone's thinking on that is a little different.
If it comes down to it, I do have a set of lb9 heads from a 91 tpi trans am if you do in fact have the tbi heads. Engine knocked but oddly ran very smooth. I'd prob have them freshened.
Well - it runs. And I sorted out the clutch hydraulics and had a nice pedal. Felt good. Started it up (first time with clutch fork engaged) with the intention to take its first drive and all hell broke loose - I think demons from the 9th circle of hell showed up to the party. Something went horribly, terribly, desperately wrong inside the bell housing. I shut it down of course. The fork is all sidewards and it broke some pieces off the fork hole of the bell housing me thinks possibly the fellow who did the clutch and wasn't able to sort out the hydraulics probably did something very wrong when assembling the clutch.
Good times. Pics shortly.
GD
Last edited by GeneralDisorder; 06-24-2019 at 07:02 PM.
The pivot ball stud appears intact. Engine ran ok with no noises from the bell housing before I was able to actuate the fork. Obviously I needed to depress the clutch pedal for starting and once that was actually moving the fork is when things went bad. It sounded like the bendix was stuck when it started. Things are rubbing significantly on the pressure plate fingers or the flywheel teeth.
It may not actually need to be repaired - it's just a chunk out of the rim of the fork hole. If I feel the desire I may TIG it back together. But that seems overly-ambitious for a T5 that will probably get swapped for something else in a few years.
The fart smeller that installed this clutch put the release bearing in backwards. With predictably dire consequences. Looks like the damage isn't too bad. Release bearing is spanked. Pressure plate fingers are a little worse for wear but probably runable.
Holy cow, that's crazy but glad it's a simple fix. GM pivot ***** are still fairly cheap but may take a day or so to get because GM dealers don't stock parts like they used to..
The pivot ball and fork cleaned up alright. Not perfect but mild pitting will hold onto the grease a little better.
Some people.... if you have never done a clutch or aren't sure you know what the hell you are doing.... STOP! You'll make a damn fool of yourself. Get advice from someone. Or just put down the tools and pickup a beer and a TV remote. Make life hard for the next guy (me)..... Ridiculous.
It's not just one mistake. The throw out was backwards - fatal flaw. There was not a drop of grease on anything - pivot ball, trans quill, input shaft and splines, etc - all completely dry. Didn't resurface the flywheel - all heat checked and worn from the last clutch. No loctite used on any fasteners and the torque was all over the place. One bell housing bolt was replaced with wrong thread and the just jammed in with about 1000 ft/lbs. It's just a total $hit show in here.
And ultimately they screwed up the hydraulics and never got it running so it's sat since 2004. They were doomed to fail from the minute they started. Cheap parts and terrible work. Why do people do this?
GD
Last edited by GeneralDisorder; 06-26-2019 at 12:00 AM.
Because 'people' are stupid, ignorant, and lazy. Stupid as in they don't think. Ignorant as they don't know any better. Lazy as they refuse to take the time to learn how to do something right. If anything it gets worse every day. It's why you can't get what you order at the drive-thru, why the counter monkey at the parts store can't find a part without knowing what year, make, model, and engine the part fits, why everything is an uphill battle.
Is it worth keeping the airbag and associated steering wheel? How good were these early systems? The wheel and bag are pretty much F'd due to morons trying to pry it off rather than unbolting it from the back (when they drilled out the ignition).
I'm tempted to just delete it and put on an NRG wheel like my 86. But the Airbag light was not illuminated prior to me removing the bag and wheel so I assume it was working.
Thoughts? If anyone has a decent wheel with airbag for sale, let me know!
Also - I have deleted VATS from the PROM chip and put in an 86 ignition switch. What's the best way to delete the security lamp from the gauge cluster? Should I pull the bulb or is there an easier place to access the feed wiring?
Generation 1 airbags are the ones so dangerous that manufacturers made such a fuss over "improved" Gen 2 airbags. They're kind of like an anti-personnel mine with an inflating pillow projectile. The auto equivalent of the Merry Melodies backfiring explosion that leaves the foil blackened and smoking. It's insult on top of injury, potentially injury on top of injury. Who's to say the scientific study has been made into how these things will function some 30 years on... Personally I don't trust them.
Pull the cluster, remove the security bulb and the infl restraint bulb at the same time.
05-16-2019, 12:46 PM
me thinks possibly the fellow who did the clutch and wasn't able to sort out the hydraulics probably did something very wrong when assembling the clutch.
