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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
I’ve been spending time putting the wiring harnesses back in the car. The picture is a little busy, but wires make things a mess. There is a slight reflection of the parking lights, so those work. I did have some initial issues with the key in buzzer, taillights and computer but after much troubleshooting I was able to get those issue resolved. The issue basically came down to some grounds not being connected. Which I guess is expected with the janky setup I had to test. After making sure all the grounds where connected I was able to all that I could and even connect to the ECM and read codes. There are a lot of codes. I’m guessing because there is no engine 😊
I also tested the radio, heater controls and the most important function, the remote hatch release. My first three Firebirds were S/Es and they had remote hatch release. The T/As I have now don’t have remote hatch release and I’ve always missed it. Pressing the hatch release button and hearing the clunk of the release solenoid was very nostalgic.
I do have one more issue, the seat belt warning light on the dash is not working. The bulb works the wiring all checks out. I’ve tried two different audio alarm modules which is supposed to control the dash light but nothing.
I’ll also say I had a problem with Key Warning Buzzer switch in the steering column (part 7811092). NOS switches are like $80 on a popular internet auction site so I bought a OER part. I've had good and bad luck with OER. In this case the switch I got was not good and caused much sadness. It was made well enough, but the contacts ( the things that look like antennas) did not line up with the switch on the column. I did get it work but it was a pain.
I love what you are doing with this project! You make everything seem so easy and yet have a sense of calm when discussing the work you have put into it. I have a 2010 Camaro in which the AC evaporator took a dump on me and freon is leaking on the underside of the car. The AC system is bone dry now. The entire dash and windshield must come out in order to replace the evaporator with a new one. Removing and reinstalling the dash and airbags etc... is like working on the space shuttle and I'm frightened to do any of this. If I have the dealership do it... it will cost me $2900 plus tax! Yikes!
I’ve been debating if I was going to post this because this is something probably no one will care about but it’s part to the process and make for some good content.
A little background. When GM built these cars, they were dipped in light gray primer then painted. GM did not intentionality paint the undercarriage, but they would end up with some amount of over spray. I have seen some cars with a lot of overspray to the point it almost looks painted to cars with very little over-spray.
My car had very little over-spray, so the undercarriage was mostly gray. I found SEM 62243 Ez-Coat is a match for the primer gray color. I painted the undercarriage and was happy with the results. Then I got the bright idea to try to match the overspray. That was a mistake. I uses spray paint and what I found was the spray pattern was not fine enough. It did not look good. So I tried to fix it by adjusting my pattern and painting a little more. It looked terrible. My solution was to spray the entire undercarriage black. Now I have all-black undercarriage. It looked fine but was not correct. I told myself It was fine and finished putting the rear suspension together.
During this project I’ve been taking great care to restore it to the way it would have been in 83 and every time I looked under the car it would bother me.
I ended up taking everything apart and painted the underside the correct color. It was work I was not looking forward to but I’m glad it’s done. It only took me about 4 hours to remove everything and paint. Then about 3 hours the next day to put everything back together.
On a side note. The SEMS Light Green Part #62233 is a match for the green color of the fuel and brake lines.
Here are some pictures of the undercarriage. It looks much more original and turned out very well.
It has been one year since I started my restoration project.
Here are a few things I have learned so far along the way.
· Before starting I created a plan, I took into account the order of assembly, what needed to be installed when to not interfere with other parts. The plan was to start at the rear undercarriage, work my way forward under the car, the engine and front end. Move to the interior and finish at the back of the car. That did not happen, due to the time to track down parts and delays with getting some professional services, like getting the engine rebuilt. My plan is out the windows. I ended up jumping from task to task depending what parts I have handily.
· Parts are more expensive than I was expecting, I grew up in a time when GM parts for these cars where cheap because they where everywhere. That is not the case anymore. There are cheap parts out there, but they are CHEAP parts. Good quality or NOS parts are costly. I’m glad I bought a bunch of part 15 years with I got the car.
· Finding local professional services is more challenging than I was expecting. Again, I grew up in a time when there was a machine shop and autobody shop on every corner. That’s a bit of an exaggeration but I hope you get the idea, that’s not the case anymore. I don’t know if it’s just where I live but these types of services are much harder to find locally.
· I have not been one to participate in social networks and I don’t post much, but I have found FB a valuable tool for information and contacts for getting parts. I have also found youtube valuable for information on how to do things, which is something I would not have thought of 15 years ago.
That’s a lot of words, for those of you who prefer picture, here you go.
These are parts I got back from power coating. I dropped off 31 parts and when I went to pick them up, they brought out 16 parts. One of my fears was losing something and when they brought out only half the parts there was a moment of… shall we say anxiety. but they did have all the parts, they were put on a different shelf in the back.
Here is the catalytic converter hanger. The rubber had separated so I had to rebuild it. Fortunately the transmission was leaking so it was covered in trans fluid with preserved the metal parts. I just had to replace the rubber strap.
I've been following this 83 and your 82 MSE. I had a black and gold 4 speed 82 just like this 83. I love the early cars. I have an 82 now but there's nothing stock about it. I totally dig watching progress on these two cars.
Last edited by Firechicken82; Apr 17, 2024 at 09:58 PM.
The exhaust is done and installed. There are only 5 pieces to the exhaust, at least that I'm working on now. The catalytic converter, intermediate pipe, muffler and two tail pipes. This will be a quick job, a week tops I thought… nope. It took more then a month to get the exhaust done and installed.
The goal of this restoration is to remain true to originality. Since GM no longer makes the muffler, I had to fine one that looked correct and did not have any logos. Another issue I ran into was since my car has the H.O. engine it uses 2 1/2 inlet and outlet size for the pipes. This is a less common size. I bought a few mufflers that look the part in pictures but when I got them they had logos so back they went. I finally settled on the AP / EASTERN 3228. It has 2 1/2 inlet and outlet is the correct size and shape and only has a bit of generic text stamped on the top, which is not seen when installed.
The next issue I ran into is the tail pipes, again the 2 1/2 size issue came but I found the Dynomax tailpipes to have the correct hanger and a smooth bends. They also felt more substantial than some other brands I bought. However, they have an incorrect cutout at the tip of the tail pipe. I ended up cutting it to match. when i when to test fit I found out the driver side pipe I bought was manufactured to short. So I had to buy a second one. But they turned out good.
The Dynomax tailpips does not have the correct end cut but does have the correct hanger
After i cut the end it looks like it should
I decide to reuse my intermediate pipe. It was still solid but somewhere corroded. I cleaned it up however it did not look good, so I painted it. It turned out ok.
Here is the exhaust ready to be installed.
Fortunately, my catalytic convert is in good usable shape, so it just needed a good cleaning.
The exhaust is installed. This picture was taken before fastened the passenger side. There is a piece of wire holding it up just in case i needed adjust or take it down. I did have to remove the track bar to get the intermediate pipe which was a little worried about but its just a few bolts.
I was debating if I was going to rebuild the engine myself or have it rebuilt. Due to the bent rod I decided to have it rebuilt, and I’m glad I did. The main reason to have it rebuilt was to have the block magnaflux. Although I didn’t see any damage from the bent rod, that doesn’t mean there wasn’t any and I didn’t want to take the chance. It turned out the block was good, however during the rebuild process it was discovered the intake was pitted and bad. This is probably where the water came and causes the hydrolock that caused the bent rod.
Other then that it was in good shape. It was rebuilt back to stock and I was able to sources a oem intake.
Here is the badness in the intake. this is probably what casued the bent rod, coolant got past the gasket and entered the cylender
I'm getting ready to paint the engine. I've found Dupli-Color DE1634 Low Gloss Black to be a good match. The valve cover is the original paint and the bell housing is the new paint.
Last edited by wildjeff; Jul 11, 2024 at 12:18 AM.
The engine is dressed and ready to go in the car. Getting the engine to this point was quite the journey. On the internet people be like “rebuild and install a sbc is quick and easy”. In my real life, it be like “HAHAHA”
When I bought the car, it ran and drove fine. Seemed a little rough but nothing alarming. I just assumed it was in need of a carb rebuild or there were vacuum leaks. When I started disassembly, I found a bent rod in cylinder 7. At that point I decided I wanted to get it professionally rebuild so the block and other parts could be checked. I didn’t want put time and money into an engine with a damaged block.
The next step was to find a machine shop locally to rebuild it. That was way harder than I was expecting. Back in my day machine shops and chevy V8s where a dime a dozen. Those days are gone. The machine shops around my area only want to build custom or race engines. Fortunately, I was able to find a machine shop locally that would rebuild it. It took 5 months due to their backlog, but they seemed to go a good job. I wont really know until I fire it up, they were responsive and know what they where talking about. When I got the engine home I did an oil pressure test which was good.
And so here we are, ready to install the engine in the car.
At the same time, I was working the transmission. It was in good shape, I did not fully disassemble it but I did inspect it. The gears looked good, no chips or wear. The synchronizers looked good. I did replace the seals and cleaned it. I also got the drive shaft ready. The u-joints looked good but they were cheap enough I replaced them and cleaned it up.
engine looks great! since you're going above and beyond restoring this car, hit those exhaust manifolds with some high temp cast iron colored paint.
Funny you mention painting the exhaust manifold. I have been debating that since I took the engine out. I decided not to paint them for two reasons. One, its easier to paint them later then it is to unpaint them. And two, after looking at a bunch of low mile cars they all have a slight rusting on the exhaust manifold. Unpainted is how they came from the factory. For example, Chris Blasius posted a video of a 7K trans am and in a few shots the manifold can be seen which have the slightly rusty patina. Its that patina I’m going after. That is the same reason I did not paint the transmission. In general, I’m only painting parts that would have been painted from the factory.
After saying all that, I did paint the intermediate pipe on my exhaust. No one reproduces the 2.5” pipe. Mine was structurally sound but it did not clean up well. I could either have a new one made or paint the one I have. I prefer to keep as much of the original metal as I can so I did paint it.
The time a come to tackle the carburetor. The one that came on the car was a 84 date unit. So it wasn't the original. A long time ago I was able to sources a NOS numbers correct 83 date coded carb, which is what i will use. It still had the plugs in the mixture screws and cover over the air bleed valve. It has been a long time since I have messed with carbs so I spent a fair amount of time reacquainting myself with the rebuild process. I bought a GM rebuild kit and I’ll say I’m not very happy with it. The parts seem ok but the air horn gasket was missing a screw hole that needed to be punched out. it was an easy enough fix to punch out the hole but still. May i didnt get the right kit but the other parts fit and the number on kit matches the carb.
When watching rebuild videos I noticed people would throw all the parts into a single bucket, I could not do that, I had to lay them out in order I took them part to make sure I didn't get confused. Good news, after ressembly I didn’t have any left over parts 😊 I don’t know how long it's suppose to take but it took me 5 hours to rebuild the carb with a lot of that time making sure everything is adjusted correctly.
This moves the project into the next phase. In the first phase I was cleaning and rebuilding, in this second phase I’m reassembling and I care about order of operations. Some things need to go before other. Since I’m doing a factory restoration, I’m putting all the emission stuff back. This is good for my understanding how they work but bad for everything else. I had an 83 and 84 S/E in my youth and I forgot how many hose there are. Everything overlaps and there is no room for tools or my hands. The hoses are new but some of the fittings are not available and being 40-year-old plastic, I need to be careful. As more and more stuff goes on the engine there is less and less room to work.
Getting the pulleys and belts on was way harder than I was expecting. Mostly due to the aforementioned order of operations. I had to remove and reinstalled the power steering pump a number of times due to there being a bunch of brackets that hold it and the A/C compressor, and they need to be installed in a certain order, like a puzzle.
I also had a problem with the lower radiator hose on the engine side. The hose size is 2.25”. Since I’m trying to keep everything as original as I can, I wanted to use the correct double wire clamp, but I could not find one in the correct size. I spent to much time looking. In the end I used an off the shelf screw clamp.
This is just after it was installed. the transmissions is also installed but it was installed separately
Almost complete. I still have to installed the distributor and plugs and wires. its getting close to starting for the first time.
sidebar question:
i think the 8K cluster from HO firebirds also has an oil pressure gauge that reads higher than a 6K cluster. is that correct and if so can these clusters be interchanged without needing to change anything else (like the oil pressure sender)?
The oil pressure gauge is 80 PSI and it’s what I am currently dealing with. The sending units are different. There is a 60 PSI and an 80 PSI unit.
I have 3 items to resolve before I start the car for the first time. I need to replace the steering gear input shaft seal due to it leaking, fix the oil pressure gauge and install the distributor/plug wires.
The oil pressure gauge has been a pain and I still don’t have it working right. It read about half what it should. When I prime the engine and I get about 55 PSI with a machinal gauge. During my first round of tests with the dash gauges, I was getting about 35ish psi. I though it was a bad sender. My car has a three wire oil sender plug. Then I notice I have a 60 PSI , 3-wire oil sender. I started looking for the correct sender but all the parts houses and the Pontiac parts catalog show a one terminal sender. This confused me. I could not find a three terminal, 80 PSI, 1/8 treaded sending unit. As far as I can tell the two other wires where only for EFI cars to disable the fuel pump if there is no oil pressure. My car is carb and has a mechanical fuel pump. So, it seems GM used a 3 plug harness even if its not needed. Probably to reduce cost im guessing.
I bought and installed the correct 80 PSI sending unit and now it read about 20ish PSI. ☹
I have confirmed the sender is working it, it reads about 55 ohms while priming the engine, which is about right. When I hook up a 90-ohm resistor to the harness the gauge reads about 40 PSI. I have to connect a 300-ohm resistor to get the gauge to read 80 PSI.
I have checked the grounds and they are good, so my next step is to remove the cluster and check the wiring. I have also read there is a resistor on the back of the gauge that can go bad. So i'll need to check that also.
Other info that may or may not be related. The fuel gauge is do the same thing and the lights in the cluster seem a bit dim. All other gauges and lights are working fine, Including the temp gauge.
Well My '83 has only one wire for the oil sending unit.
I have a sending unit from a '84 Z'-28 which was a L-69 option (VIN G) and am wondering if it would work with my 60 psi gauge. I don't remember what oil pressure gauge the Camaro had (it was over 20 years ago). It was a parts-car.
'Seems that the sending unit part numbers at the local auto parts stores are the same for both VIN G and VIN H models (???))...
I ended up taking the cluster apart and success. The oil and fuel gauges are fixed, the issue was bad resistors on the back of the those two gauges. The oil gauge was resistor was open and the fuel gauge resistor was reading 4K ohms. Fortunately i had some other gauges I could get the correct resistors from and once i installed them the they started reading correctly. As for the lights, turns out i had 3 burnt out bulbs. I had originally rebuilt this cluster in 2007. at the time i could not verify the gauge but i though i checked the bulbs. i guess not. I order some LED bulbs for replacements.
The resistors are color coated. i could not find a good source for that they should be but i was able to get correct readings with some trial and error with the spares i had.
I've added all the fluids and the only leak i had is the input shaft on the steering gear. At least so far
I ordered a seal kit and replaced the seals, so far so good. I did manually spin the pump with a drill to test but the real test will be when the car is running.
This is where it was leaking from and it was leaking a lot.
I did not remove the steering gear which was probably not the best idea just because it was a tight space but i was able to get the front cap/retainer/insert/i don't know what its called, out and replace the seals.
I don't have a picture of the finished job because it looks just like the first picture but without the red arrow. As of right now, there are no leaks. That is exciting.
I also had an issue with the rear brakes. No matter what i did i could not bleed them. i was not getting any fluid to the rear calipers. When i tried to vacuum bleed them, they would not hold a vacuum. Turns out the copper washers that seal the brake line to the caliper where bad. Diagnosing took awhile. I had to disconnect hoses and fitting, test it see if it holds vacuum and move on to the next section. Once i tracked the issue to the caliper i was worried i would need to rebuild it. That would be a bummer. As part of testing, I replaced the copper washers on the driver side brake hose with o-rings and it held vacuum, and i was ecstatic. A trip to the local auto parts store for some new copper washers and the rear brakes are fixed....
Nope.
While they do hold a vacuum now, I still cant bleed them. I'm just not getting a fluid to the rears. I was able to bleed the front brakes just fine but i get no fluid to the rear. I tried to bench bleed the master cylinder again but nothing. Turns out the combination valve was frozen. According to the service manual it is not serviceable. Searching with a popular search engine and looking though the many places i buy parts did not lead me a factory correct replacement.
After a few Facebook posts and reading this thread https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/brak...ng-torque.html
i decided to build what i have. I my case the valve was stuck. i had to fab an adapter so i could use my grease gun to push the valve out. And it worked. the valve popped right out.
Fortunately, the rubber seal and other parts where in good shape, just dirty. Once cleaned and reassembled, i was able to bleed the rear brakes. I now have brakes!
Today was to the day to do the first start. All hoses are installed, fuel primed, oil primed, battery charged. All fluids checked. Temporary driver seat and steering wheel installed. Everything looks ready to go.
The good
With a pump of the gas and turn the key, it fired right up, it was radical! I did not hear anything bad, but it idled a little rough.
The not so good,
After adjusting the timing, it still idles a bit rough. At about 1500 RPMs it will start to backfire through the exhaust. If I go to about 2000 RPM it will backfire through the carb. I double checked the timing, and the spark plug wire routing. When I installed the distributor, I did use the old coil. It tested ok on the bench but from what I have been reading a weak coil can cause these issues. This coil was original to the car when i bought it in 2007 so who knows how old it really is and its been sitting for the last for the last 17 years. I’ve ordered a new coil and will give that a try in the coming days.
Some other issues
I need to adjust the clutch and the radiator fan is not turning on. There were also a few leaks here and there but nothing serious. A few turns of the wrench took care of the leaks. The choke light is also staying on but the choke itself seems to be working.
Is the alternator charging? If so, check the Choke Heater fuse and the Choke Heater relay.
When my Choke light was staying on, the cause turned out to be a MISSING Choke Heater relay (dang previous owners!)...
Is the alternator charging? If so, check the Choke Heater fuse and the Choke Heater relay.
When my Choke light was staying on, the cause turned out to be a MISSING Choke Heater relay (dang previous owners!)...
I seem to think the alternator is charging but i can not say for sure, there was a lot to be looking at. when i replace the coil and start it again I'll check.
Is the alternator charging? If so, check the Choke Heater fuse and the Choke Heater relay.
When my Choke light was staying on, the cause turned out to be a MISSING Choke Heater relay (dang previous owners!)...
Turns out the choke relay was frozen. i took it out, tapped on the workbench a few times and it started working. I replaced it anyway since they are not to expensive.
Progress I think. I replaced the coil and readjusted the carb and its idling better and can rev above 1500 RPM without misfires, but only when the distributor disconnected from ECM. If I try to start it with the distributor connected to the ECM it will sputter, backfire and not start.
The next step is to start looking at the ECM. WinALDL is able to connect to the ECM, and I can get data so I don’t think the ECM is “bad” but there are a few oddities. From the scan tool, the O2 reading shows 0 volts with the engine not running. It should read .4 to .5 volts. If I measure the voltage at the O2 sensor itself, I get .4 volts. Also, the Baro sensor values does not change, even if I apply vacuum. I have a bit more trouble shooting before I buy a new ECM.
On a side note. Quardrajet specific tools and gauges do not seem to be available anymore for a reasonable price. To setup the carb I had to make my own gauges. I think it’s close but I can’t finish final adjustments until I can get the car running with the ECM.
And the fuel gauge seems to not be working again. This does not surprise me. At the time I was working on the fuel tank I could not find a replacement sending unit. The original unit was dirty so I cleaned it up and it worked but not very well. The resistance reading were sporadic. After disassembly and more cleaning it seems to work OK but I didn’t have much confidences. I’ll need to fill the tank and see what happens. I have since found a source for a new sending unit so I may be dropping the tank to replace it, that will be a bummer.
I ordered a new ECM but it will take a month to get here, so in the meantime, I started working on the interior trim. The plastics are in good physical shape but faded. My plan is to paint them. Its unfortunate timing since its starting to get cold but we’ll see how far I get.
I also pulled the headliner from my parts cars. It was my plan to use it but It’s in worse shape than I though. My options are to try to repair it, find an OEM replace or buy and aftermarket replacement. I haven’t been able to find an OEM replacement and I’ve heard the aftermarket ones don’t fit so well. That leave trying to fix the one I have. If it doesn’t work there is no lose so I’ll give it a shot. If anyone knows anyone with a Ttop headliner they want to part with in the pacific northwest let me know.
I’ve been struggling to get the car running reliably. In the process of trouble shooting, I found the brake booster is not holding a vacuum. I had the booster rebuilt in 2008 and its been sitting on the shelf for the last 16 years. After sitting for so long not being used the rubber parts have dried out causing a vacuum leak. I found a place to rebuild it but in the meantime I’ve plugged the vacuum line to the from the carb. Art least it still looks good
Bummer with the brake booster. The engine should rev better without that huge vacuum leak (line is plugged).
You probably should have changed to the stiffer spring in the proportioning valve while you had it apart.
So what sending unit did you use with the 80 psi oil gauge?
Bummer with the brake booster. The engine should rev better without that huge vacuum leak (line is plugged).
You probably should have changed to the stiffer spring in the proportioning valve while you had it apart.
So what sending unit did you use with the 80 psi oil gauge?
The sending unit was an adventure. I ended up using a [REDACTED, see post 99]. When trying to buy a new sending unit, every parts house showed units with one terminal. I needed a three terminal sender. Most three terminal senders are 60 PSI. The Pontiac parts book did not have a part number for L69 senders either.
What I needed was
· 80 PSI
· 1/8 treads
· Three terminals.
Finally after buying a few different senders over the last year the [REDACTED, see post 99] was the one I needed.
While the one terminal sender would work for oil pressure, I needed the three terminals. The other two terminals are used for 1) on TBI cars they are inline with the fuel pump. So there has to be oil pressure for the fuel pump to run. Or 2) on carburetor cars they are inline with the fresh air hood vent so the hood vent will only open if there is enough oil pressure.
Last edited by wildjeff; Jan 11, 2025 at 10:36 AM.
I got the booster checked and it turns out there was a seal that was dislodged, causing a massive air leak. I found a place locally that rebuilds brake boosters and took it in just before the holidays. They checked the booster, found the dislodged seal and reseated it. They benched tested and it was good. Turns out it didn’t need a rebuild. The best part is they didn’t charge me. I got it installed and the car will rev up to 3000 now, which it didn’t do before.
But the gist is, when the distributor 4-pin connector is unplugged, the car will start a run fine. When the 4-pin connector is connected the car will not run at all.
I think the timing issue is the last thing I need to figure out to get the car running. Then I can start the body work.
Turns out the oil sender i bought is not the right one or defective. it measures 23 ohms at 0 PSI. it should read 0 ohms. i've returned it. I installed the other single blade sender that i have for now and will continue looking.
