Does anyone know the Production Numbers for L69 equipped Z28's and Trans Am's?

I have seen numbers saying 3,500 in 1983, 73 in 1986, and that is it ... and from what I read most of the 1986 ones went to Canada.

Why do I want to know? Why not just throw in a 350?

#1 because I am on a strict budget.
#2 I am nearly done making my car a safe daily driver, and the weakest part of the car is the 140,000 mile engine. I've been fixing this car up for years and only put about 100 miles on her, and I can't wait to drive her everyday, but if something should happen like say a rear main seal blows or a major leak I would like to know if it will be worth keeping everything original for 20 years down the road.

BTW I may tear into the engine in a couple of months, because we are moving and the car must be able to make a 2,200 mile trip in 4 days.

Thanks for you input.

 

According to the Camaro White Book:

1983 - 3223
1984 - 52457
1985 - 2497
1986 - 74

JamesC

 

If the engine does not give you any problems I would suggest running with that engine, as a rebuilt my surprise you without warning.

As for collectability, I think the only reason why the HO sold so well in 1984 was there was no other engine that was offered that was better. Unlike 82, 83, 85 & 86 there was no FI V8 offered that year.

Personally I would take the engine and set it somewhere and then install your 350, If someone wanted it all original again you could always put it back. Or if you wanted the effort, you could take the engine, punch it out to 350 ci, resleave it and then you would still have the original block and matching numbers, no one would ever know.

') l8r



John

 

I agree with setting it aside and installing a 350. This way the original engine is preserved.

The idea of punching out the 305 to a 350 however is not possible. It's not like the blocks are the same internally. Yes you can bore and stroke a 305, but you are only going to get a max of like 334 or so.

 

Thanks for the info and advice. She runs smooth and quiet, and I have been real nervous about rebuilding the engine, I only thought about it because the car has sat in my garage for three years while I fix her up.

Is the Camaro White Book online or a book you bought?

Didn't they sell 100,000 Z28's in 1984?

I still plan to replace the valve stem seals this winter to get rid of my morning puff (30sec of smoke after start up).

 

I purchased mine at Border's: Mike Antonick's Genuine Camaro White Book: 1967-1997 (Book Trade Distruibution by: Motorbooks International. Osceola, Wisconsin). You can probably buy it online.

In 85, the LG4--Engline, 305ci, 150hp V8 (std. Z28) sold 99,976.

JamesC

 

Wow- I didn't know they made so many in 84. Pretty cool though- Lots of parts available for my L69.

 

Oddly enough, though I'm a junkyard rat, I just haven't seen that many L69's.

JamesC

 

I have seen several for sale locally... I had a neighbor with an 86 which came originally with the L69 in his trans Am... He swapped it out for a 350 He is no longer living there or he sold the car either way its no longer where it was... Would have been a cool find for 1 of 26 in the Firebirds.

As a side note according to Pontiac: The L69 engines were as follows:
Year -- Trans -- Production
1983 -- M5 ------.- 663
1984 -- A4 ----- 18,037
1984 -- M5 ----.- 6,367
1985 -- M5 ----.- 1,665
1986 -- M5 -------.- 26

l8r

John

 

I visit the wrecking yard quite a bit and I haven’t seen many L69’s either. I do see a lot a 84’s though.
----------
26 in 86, and I though I was lucky when I found my 83.

 

I wonder how many more were built for the Monte Carlo SS?

 

Yeah, I forgot about the Monte's getting the L69. So far when I go to the salvage yards I'm ripping parts of IROCs (seat motors, trim pieces, doors, etc.).

Okay, I heard the LG4's actual chasis dyno numbers are between 145 and 150? Is that true, and if it is ... what does that say for the L69? What are the actual engine and chasis dyno numbers for the L69?

I've seen lots of articles with bolt-on mods and theory of HP/torque increase from GM High Performance, Car Craft, etc., but has anyone done real world research of stock engine and wheel dynos? Thanks.

 

Yes. IIRC, 190.

JamesC

 

I know the advertised HP numbers for the L69 were 190hp/240torque, and those are supposed to be flywheel HP, but since GM had a history (and still does with LTx & LSx according to Horsepower TV dyno numbers) of giving low numbers for power is it really 190hp? What about rear wheel HP?

When I see a 1996 LT1 put down 265hp at the wheels (i.e. GM reports 285 at fly-wheel), that tells me someone is reporting low numbers or has made mods they aren't reporting. Right? The same thing they did more than 30 years ago.

 

Honestly the 190hp figure is probably about right, they were not real fast cars from the factory even the HO cars would be lucky to get anything below 15 sec in the 1/4 mile with the wind behind it. My guess, without actually driving one they would prbably be in the mid 15's. The TPI in 85 was such a huge step forward in performance it made the carburated cars almost obsolite, many people thought they were actually 350 engine because of the added performance.

One of the added performace features of the HO cars was when they added the 3.73 gear ratio, it really helped in the seat-o-pants meter.

John

 

The advance curve that GM used in the L69 Prom was pretty hot for a smogger engine as well. I actually have the advance curve used for several different years on my computer.

The cam used in the L69 and the carb calibration all helped give a strong kick when you mashed the pedal to the floor.

 

I've heard that about the PROMs advance curve before ... So is it worth while to buy a hypertech chip for my car or will that take away some driveability while only adding 1 or 3 more HP? Thanks to other threads advice I am keeping my CC Q-Jet, and saving my money for other projects, like suspension, brakes, and headers.

 

I know the 1986 Player's cars, which were all L69 motors, had 188+ rear wheel horsepower. Granted these engines were the hand assembled version of the L69, but it does show a balanced/blueprinted L69 did make decent HP. From the stories I heard talking to various racers, some of the lead teams somehow got over 200 rwhp on their cars. Considering the engines were sealed and dyno tested ... makes you wonder how.

They were a nice high rev'ing 305. The 3.73's certainly made then fun.

Mark.

 

For it's time the L69 was a rippin' 305. That said, I still wouldn't bother keeping the engine if you drop in a 350. Sell it, give it away, throw it away. No one is ever going to want to put a 305 back in a car once it's out.

If it works, stick with it and enjoy it. If it starts knocking or developes heavy blow by build up a 350 instead. The machine work to rebuild a 305 is the same as a 350 and the parts for a 350 are cheaper. Besides that, no one would ever know it has a 305/350/400 just by looking at it. I'm sure someone will say the balancers are different, but since 305's used at least 3 different balancers, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Drew,
I think that would all depend on the particular car, the milage and the condition. If it was an 86 with 5,000 original miles I would think that installing a 350 and throwing away the old engine without secound thought might be a bad decision. But if its a whoped out high miles 1984 that would take another invested $30,000 to restore then thats a better option to explore. Its odd though, If I look at a car that has a new motor in it, like someone advertising a 350 in an older 3rd gen I become very disinterested quickly, not sure why...


John