does anyone make a BOLT IT roll cage for a 89 TA.
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?

 

What would be the point of a bolt-in cage?

 

you should be in politics. answering a question with a question.

 

I think what the nice man meant to say is... "A bolt in roll cage would never hold up if you actually rolled your car. The only application for something like that is along the same lines as getting a ram air hood that isnt functional...just looks cool".

Did i come close?

Anyways...i would say go buy a 300 torch welder and learn how to use it. You would fine that once you got the hang out it, you can weld a hell of a lot more that just a cage

Build a car!

 

Something like that. How are you going to install a cage without welding at some point?

 

People that dont know how too weld scare way too many ppl away its really not that hard it just takes a lil pratice not too blow threw stuff. Just give it a go youll be glad once u do theres so many things welding is good for

 

actually, im over 90% sure that bolt in cages are NHRA approved... mine has 24 1/2" grade 8 bolts holding it in... its not going anywhere. I might be getting a third gen and was trying to research this same topic, thats how i found this thread. has anyone checked wolfe? thats what brand the one in my 01 is...

 

I was just gonna say... A lot of jeep guys run bolt together cages. There are usually two floor plates that sandwhich the floor and get bolted together. Then there are special flanges that are used to put the rest of the cage together. Ive seen these stand up to a good amount of force. Not as much as hitting something at 100+ mph.... but then again, if the cage itself is welded up, and the only bolts are used on the floor, it would probably do fairly well. I mean...how strong is the metal around those pads that are welded in anyway?

However...I still prefer welded...

J.

 

They can be bolted through the floor in some cases, but that's not really a bolt-in when you can't install it in the car without welding at some point anyway.

 

as much as I agree with welding together a cage as I think it's stronger, at work we had to replace every single rack in a freezer at a hog house because OSHA flipped out that stuff had been welded, something about how the bolts are stronger than welds (but i think thats more about having the bolts bend and being replaced rather than a weld being stressed and just breaking)

ANYWAY I do not think a bolt in cage would be a very good idea, there is a reason funny cars and top fuel are welded together and not bolted.

 

Funny cars and top fuel dragsters also consistently land 7's or lower. If he's asking about a bolt in roll cage, I'm sure his car can't land a 7 or lower in the 1/4. Bolt it would be nice so you can remove it without having to hack it apart. I can't think of specific situations, but if it's a daily driver, I'd want to be able to remove it from time to time. Of course, if it was my daily driver, I probably wouldn't need a roll cage. Everybody is different though.

You'd most likely have to have the posts welded to the body, then fabricate the rest of the roll cage to be bolt in if you wanted it.

 

if a person is an inexperienced welder, they'd be better off bolting in a cage than welding it in. there is a lot more to welding than "grab a torch and practice." i do believe that anyone can attach metal with a welder, but only a few people out there can truly call themselves welders. when it comes to a cage or suspension parts (or anything else critical), you need a welder to do it, not a guy that can weld.

 

Get a weld-in cage, drill the plates for bolts, put it in, then take it to be welded.

 

there you go

 

How are you going to put a cage in without welding, unless you have a convertible?

 

its not a revolutionary idea guys, 4th gen guys (myself included) have had them for years. check out wolfes website. the interior has to be removed from the car, then the main hoop goes in, then the front and back bars bolt to the main hoop, then the whole assembly is bolted through the floor. argue what you may about strength, but nhra approved is nhra approved. besides, i promise you that my "weak" bolt in cage is MUCH stronger than your cars without a cage

 

It's not NHRA approved unless it's welded.

 

My roll cage in my 1989 GTA is from Competition Engineering,It comes with the MAIN hoop,side bars,rear bars,down bars from the main hoop,and 8 flat steel plates to WELD to the floor of car.I asked if Welded or bolt in was NHRA legal at the Tracks I race at.At the tracks I go to,WELDED in is the only thing LEGAL to run certian classes,PRO MOD,10 INCH TIRE. Bolt in cages are ok for D.O.T class.
If you run faster than 11.99,the cage must be WELDED in,I decided to Weld mine in.

 

Hey.I like the way your cage looks in your car.. How much is it? and how much does weight does it add to your car?

 

I've got a 4 point "Autopower" roll bar.....you can either weld it or bolt it. It's more of a street cage....but it does fit SUPER tight...

 

Cage was not bad at all,cost was $159,thhe shipping is what gets ya,for some reason UPS says there drivers can not lift heavy stuff(lazy if you ask me)the shipping through UPS was $100 dollers!!!!!,so $259 for all,then I had to get my friend with a welder ,weld it in for $80 dollers.It weighs in at a wopping 80 pounds,so you have to take weight out elswhere.I took it out of the carpet underlayment,front bumper support(holes drilled to lighten it ,still good support)back bumper suport,any unwanted brackets,I ended up with more than 100 pounds taken out,so I benifited from it.

 

This may sound dumb, but can you still get any body in the back seat? Also, what brand name and company did you get your cage from?

 

Yeah putting people in the back seats with a cage isnt a good idea... At the risk of sounding like a jerk... yes it sounds dumb because it is. You shouldnt put anyone in the back with a cage. Even a slight impact can really mess them up...regardless if you have the bars padded. Plus, an 8-point cage generally uses diagonals from the main hoop to the tunnel. So leg room would be minimal. Im SURE someone is going to step in and say it is ok to do so...but I wouldnt. Ive seen it go bad back there before with a cage (vol. fire fighter for a few years).

Lots of people will tell you that a cage in a street car isnt great either, because in an accident, if you dont have your helmet on, you could get hurt worse. Makes sense...

He also says that the cage is Competition Engineering... and you can get it from Summit Racing, and probably a few other vendors. I would get it..if shipping was so bad.

Its not going to stop me from putting a cage in my car though...because I dont like being kicked out of the track Ill just cruise around with my helmet all the time. That outta get some weird looks... haha. Im gonig with S&W. Ive used them for Jeep cages. And they are sort of close to me, so I plan to special order, and then just pick it up. Shipping is a killer when it comes to heavy things like tubing.

J.

 

Ok so now this is another Q..What about powder coating it or something? Yours looks very nice black..but say we want red... how did/ does someone go about geting it to look good with out the burnt paint for the welder? Im ordering mine this week so..Im tryn to find out as much as possible..never put one in a car..first time thing..my father will do the welding.

 

No,you can not get people in the back seat,I get back there to clean everthing when I detail the car.Yes,you can get the cage powder coated,but you would have to do it AFTER it was welded in,or you would have to scrape off where you weld it together(so weld would stick).I have the top Halo bars ,and the ones that come down by the windshield also,I just could not bring myself to cut up that perfect dash because I would have wanted them to go through the dash for better support.
The side bars where straight,I bent them on a Ehxaust machine,and it isnt a easy task,the bars are extremly THICK.The Ehxasust machine just about burnt up trying to bend that THICK pipe.But got it done.My cage is painted BODY color,I had to STRIP the interior out of the car,seats,all plastic pieces,carpet,and cover the dash,it is a pain in the butt,but well worth it in th end.The side bars are bent so you can enter and exit easyly,and tilt wheel really helps.It took me and my buddy 8 hours to weld it all in,we welded all the steel plates to the body and burnt the welds to the FRAME(una-body) and to the sub-frame connectors,every thing is Competition Engineering.I ordered it from SUMMIT RACING,took 2 days to get it to my house!!!

 

how would you powder coat a cage??? the car would have to go in an oven to cure the powder?

 

That is true,you could powder coat the bars then scrape off were you was going to weld it,thats what I meant I know you couldnt put the car in a oven,but they do make ovens that big,I dont think Ide try that,lol.

 

there is another guy that is on here every once in a while that has his roll bar powder coated. You get the bar welded in exactly how you want it then cut it near the weld in plates then have it powdered and baked then welded in again and the carpet should hide the weld. I talked to him but never saw where it was welded back in. This is in a vert though couldn't be done in anything else. At least I don't see how.

 

Thanks for the info. I never had a car with a cage but plan on building one soon.

 

So if you have the bars that come down by the windshield, you got the 10 point cage? I really want to put a roll bar into my car, and if I get an 8 point cage, I shouldnt have to cut my dash, correct?

Also, were the back bars bent from the factory or did you bend them?

I'm looking at this kit: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=CEE%2D3130

How does it fit? Tight like it looks? Any higher res pictures?

 

if you are looking for a good fit and don't want to mod alot. you need the 8 point with the clearenced side arms to fit the stock door pulls. Spohn has them not sure which one S&W or Comp Eng. I think. I would also get th eswing outs if you are planning on keeping it street legal if not, whatever.

 

My 90 Formula had that cage kit in it,it is great quality.I have the Swing outs that weld to any cage(side bars),but I decided not to use them on my GTA.One thing you must rember,it will get old opening the door,un-doing the pin that lets the bars swing open,I thought it was a hassle to do all the time,thats why I bent the side bars that way,alot better getting in and out of car for me.
The back bars come straight,you will have to bend them a little different ,so they meet the frame area in the back,you will get 2 bars in the kit that will have a slight bend,but not enough to meet the frame in the back like you need.Its not hard to bend them,they will need a o-so slight bend downward.One more thing I did,and you dont have to ,is I added bolts through the welded plates,(4) in each plate,you dont have to,but I did for extra support.I used 1/2 inch bolts plus welded the plates solid.Reason I did,on my 90 Formula,at the track,I didnt have the bolts,when I launched at 4500 rpm,it riped the floor pan at one of the welds,so me and my buddy that races for a living told me to add the bolts incase this happens again on this car.He said it would hold the bar in place untill you can get it welded again,now this is in EXTREM cases it could happen,its your choice.
The 10 point that I have,(when I install the halo and dash bars)does not have to go through the dash,but if it comes down in front of the dash ,it makes it hard to get in and out of the car,I didnt want to cut my dash(dash pad) at the time we did this,and I dont belive I will for now.Its not a hard job to install a cage,Ive done about 15 Camaros,and 15 Firebirds over the years,It just takes some time to do it right,take your time and it will turn out great,also get you a WELDING BLANKET,or borrow one,it will save your interior that you can not take out.They are FIRE proof,and stop all the weld SPLATTER,from getting on your nice interior.Where the bars meet the main hoop,and everywhere else the bars meet,they will have to be FISH MOUTHED,now that means you will have to cut them like a FISH MOUTH looks,so they will fit tight ,ask a welder they will know what I mean about this.It will let the bars fit closer together so you get that perfect fit you are asking about.
Yes the kit is very nice fit,Im sorry I dont have any better pics right now,we had a big snow storm,and I cant get the car out of the garage right now,but I will when the snow melts and take a few more for ya,some close up shots if you like!!!

 

I guess what I ment was how does the cage fit relative to the car?

That is great info for someone who hasn't done this before though!

Another question, the swing out bars you talk about, where could I find those?

 

http://www.spohn1.com/?action=product&pid=1211

 

YEARS ago, I saw a cage with flat bar side plates (if that makes sense) that fit between the dash and door panel, for the very front down bars. They were for having front down bars, without cutting through the dash pad. Make sense? Not NHRA legal, by any means, I'm sure, but better than nothing for local autocross of street use.

They were just about 6" long, to connect round upper tubes to the lower down tubes that were up to the dash.

But I haven't seen them in years, nor could I find an online pic.

Anybody know what I'm talking about?

 

It will be a perfect fit,the Main hoop will be a little to tall for the car,you will have to cut the tubes that weld to the floor plates to get proper fit,if I rember correct on my car the Main hoop was 6 inches to tall,so I cut 6 inches off the down tubes on the Main hoop.As far as side to side fit,the Main hoop fits with-in 1 inch on each side of car(interior plastic behind seats)What I did on my side bars,was I took my 2 front seats and installed them in place,shut the doors,slid the side bars in place,got them where I wanted them,and tack welded them.Then opend the doors,took the seats back out,and finished welding the side bars.If you put the Main Hoop right in line with the rear door opening,when you weld it in,No one will see the Roll cage once installed.My cage is IHRA,NHRA legal.The bar behind the driver seat,that the 5 point harness hooks to ,has to be no more than 5 inches below the drivers sholder height,what I did was install the drivers seat,sat in the seat,had my buddy make a mark at My sholder height,then measure 5 inches down from that mark(can be a littel less),It has to be this way to be IHRA,NHRA legal(doesnt meen you have to).Some people are going for looks,that is ok,but not for racing.When you decide to do this cage,give me a yell(pm) I would be glad to help you in anyway get it in place correct.
The Main Hoop ,you will want about 3 inches from your headliner when the headliner is installed,you will have to take the headliner out,so you dont get WELD SPLATTER on it,Thats what take all the time,taking the interior out,one Weld SPLATTER hits that fabric,it will burn very fast,and melt plactic .

 

I was about to say,it's not approved by NHRA, or IHRA, if it's not welded.Not welding it i think would defeat the whole purpose of puting one in. If ya know someone who has a mig welder and knows how to weld, ask them if they can help ya,and maybe even teach ya. Nothing a lil' lunch, or beer as a thank you wouldn't hurt.

good luck,
kelly

P.S. while you got the welder, might as well put some subframe connectors on there, to lessen the body twist.

 

Who were you asking?? Bolt in cages are not legal for ANY class in NHRA. They also gave you the wrong ET's. you need a 5 point roll bar at 11.49 to 10.00. If you've modified your floor pan or firewall at all then you need a full roll cage at 10.99 and quicker.

 

yeah has to be welded in. I haven't seen anything where you can bolt in a roll bar or cage on anything.