five7kid

iTrader: (14)

This thread has surpassed the "Father/son swap project" (currently a sticky on the main Engine Swap forum) for most posts in a thread.

Of course, that one was closed almost 4 years ago. Who knows how many posts it would have by now had it been left open.

Pity the fool who tries to read both it and this thread in one sitting.

Shift06

Just in the swap forums? Cause Neal has a pretty big thread over in Body.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...one-phase.html

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Yeah I was gonna say...I think that one still has me by alot. haha. I never intended it to get this big, but having a thread for every little thing I do just gets hard to keep track of haha.

I just hope, if someone takes the time to read all my babbling posts, that someone learns something from what Ive learned...and my mistakes. I mean, I blew through the details of the swap...because I already have details in other threads..but there's still some good stuff in here

J.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

At the time it was closed, it was the biggest thread of which I was aware on TGO. The one you linked was started after it was closed.

Now we're only talking about the Engine Swap thread (and, at least, the forums I moderate) size-wise. But, that one still has a soft spot in my heart for several reasons:

1) It was a father/son project - the response to it had as much to do with that as it did the technical stuff

2) It all took place in less than a year

3) They finished up pretty much where they wanted to be from the beginning

4) It was an emissions-legal swap

5) Everything they did was well documented

6)The beneficiary (the son) had his hand in almost all of the work - and was no gear-head at the beginning

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

hey man anything new to your ride?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Not really. I got engaged recently...so Ive been a little tight on money. I got some parts, but I still need to buy the injectors. Sadly, I believe Ill be waiting until spring to do the work and get it re-tuned. Between crappy weather rolling in, and just not having the time....it'll have to wait. Ive just been driving it. It runs really good right now. I just stay out of WOT because of how rich its running at WOT.

My todo list still includes: injectors and intake gaskets, catch can, add power locks, re-paint (hopefully spring), fiberglass spoiler, HID projectors, headliner/sunshade/sail panel recover, and probably a whole host of other projects that I cant think of right now.

Other than that, nothing really has changed. Still fires up every time and gets me where I need to go!

J.

Orinackra

Congrats on the engagement! or is it we're sorry? haha

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Haha... No sorries here. She's great! We've been together for quite a while and FINALLY were able to move in together a few months ago. I would have proposed to her years ago, but I wanted to live together first. She's really supportive and honestly, I probably wouldnt have ever gotten my first thirdgen if it werent for her.

Quick story. I started dating her, and she lived with her folks in a development. I always loved thirdgens, and wanted one for a long time. Well my 87 was sitting in her development, covered in dirt and leaves, and I had to drive past it often. One day she basically forced me to take it for a drive. I bought it that day haha. I was SOLD. She LOVES the t-tops, and handles the scariness of the car now with ease. She even told me that when she sees houses for sale, one of the first things she checks for is a garage or at the very least room for a garage. Keeper!

Ok...sappiness over. My trans/cluch/hydraulics are ticking me off to no end. For days, the shifting has been perfect. Butter smooth, light clutch, just fantastic. Then, out of the blue, stiffer pedal, notchy shifting...just horrible. Then..the next day...fine again. Then...etc etc. I dont get it. It doesnt seem to matter if its hot or cold. Sometimes, it will start out notchy as heck, and if I beat on it, it smoothes out. I have to really rip a hard start with a little clutch slip, then it seems to be ok.

Guess I have to add clutch fluid change and bleeding to my todo list. I really want to pop that new GM slave cylinder that I got in...but that requires removing the trans, and that makes me feel sick to my stomach.

J.

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

Well, congrats on the engagement!! Also very glad you've found such a supportive/awesome girl.

As far as your clutch, I am surprized you are still having issues. I've finally got mine up and running!! 2nd was very iffy going in unless I was winding out 1st. As I've driven it more and more, 2nd now only balks (feels like it goes in, but grinds when you let pedal out) when hot, shifting slowly up or down. I think that the syncro had been sitting for so long that it was 'stuck'. I think the 3rd gear syncros might be weak too as it is easy to accidentally pull it out of gear.

It might be a good idea to look at your gear set when you pull the trans for the slave. Hope you get it fixed soon!!

A10Beav

iTrader: (1)

Congrats on the engagement! Also, glad to hear you're driving the car daily and that it's running pretty good.

Spike-Z

iTrader: (4)

Hey Justin, what parts # did you buy from intakehoses.com?
Is that 4" piping? If you could pm me with infos it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Im not sure which part numbers I ordered...but everything is 4". I think the 90* elbows are the short radius rubber units. Then there is a 45* elbow. The clamps are listed as 4" for rubber or 4" for silicone. They have different O.D. I think. So just layout all the elbows and connectors, then match up the clamps.

My current set up goes like this. 4" 90* rubber short radius elbow, MAF, silicone connector, 4" tubing, 4" 45* rubber elbow, 4" tubing with IAT grommet, 4" 90* rubber short radius elbow turned down, 4" tubing, Amsoil DryFlo filter.

Also...Im running a nick williams throttle body. When I had my FAST 90mm unit, the 4" elbow fit right on. I had to use a spacer for the nick williams, as its slightly under 4". So just measure to be sure of what you need. Then just match up the parts on the site, order a couple feet of tubing, and the clamps to match...you're all set!

J.

Spike-Z

iTrader: (4)

Thanks a bunch, Ill order everything this week! :chug:

ShMaCk2004

where did you put the chains when you jacked up the front of the car?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

With the radiator removed, I installed my wonderbar, and used the sway bar bracket bolts. I found this to be the best place. Nice and sturdy, spreads the chain well, and gives enough space for the hoist even with the bumper cover on. Just gotta watch it.

I dont think the wonder bar is 100% needed, but I figured it would only help.

J.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

I just got my order in this week! The short radius 90* elbow fits my throttle body nicely, but the 4" rubber doesn't really fit my Z06 MAF at all. I'm going to have to come up with something to put around both ends of the MAF to make a snug fit.

Shift06

I think I may have to hoist my car up with my cherry picker to slide the tranny in from underneath. What setting did you use on your hoist, 1 ton? 1 1/2 ton? I'll be lifting mine with the engine in

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

You are going to just hoist it up and put it on stands right??? DEFINATLY dont try to work on it while suspended by the hoist. I tried to not even stick an arm under the car while it was on the hoist, until I had stands under it.

ANyway..safety advert aside...I think I used the 1-TON setting. The rear most hole is 2-TON, second is 1.5-TON etc etc. Cant be 100% on that... But 1 ton is 2000lbs. The front half of the car even with motor isnt 2000 lbs I dont think. If it is, it should still be ok to lift just enough to get on stands. Basically...I would have kept it on the higher weight setting, but I needed more reach due to the bumper cover. When I removed the motor from the 02 donor car, and my 87, the bumper cover was gone. So I had it set higher. If your bumper cover is on, you'll need to set it like I did, just to clear the cover probably.

J.

Shift06

I won't even be lifting the car for more than a minute actually. Just long enough so I can slide the trans / jack underneath into the tunnel. Then I am gonna lower it back down onto stands. My floor jack / stands won't go high enough for me to slide the trans / motorcycle jack underneath, so I wanna use the hoist to lift it a bit higher until I can get it in the tunnel and lower it back down.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Just want to go on record here and say again... I HIGHLY..STRONGLY..EMPHATICALLY suggest not working under the car while on the hoist. Get something to boost your jack stands up, like old wheels. Or buy a set of 6-ton jack stands. Harbor Freight has em cheap if you have one near you.

I def wouldnt trust it while jerking a trans around under the car. The hoist trick is soley for putting the car up on jack stands, or for lifting the body off of the k-member.

Just wanted to re-emphasize my feelings on that...

BlueZee28: Did you measure your maf ends? I seem to remember my Z06 measuring out to 4"od. I didnt need any spacers or clamps in mine. Thats why I kept saying double check and measure to those that were asking me about the intake tubing parts

You should be able to make something work though..if its not 4" it has to be close.

J.

ShMaCk2004

thanks alot, this looks alot easier than pulling the engine and dropping it in from the top since you have to get under the car anyway to pull the trans

Shift06

I didn't mean that. I am not going under the car.

ShMaCk2004

he's gonna make someone else go under it lol

Guest

I'll go under, so long as noone jostles the car. It should stay like that for years, excepting wind or earthquakes, or someone working on the car.

coolmarocrzy

iTrader: (2)

Hey Ghetto have you still not figured out the hydraulics/clutch issues? I thought you had ordered a ticks performance master cylinder and that was going to fix the problem. Just curious if it helped at all since my project is still under way and I'm planning out my parts list and details.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

I did install the Tick master. Im still having off and on issues with my shifting. However I have a few theories.

One is...I used an Autozone slave cylinder, which may or may not be working properly. I do have a GM unit to go in when I pull the trans again.

Two is...my synchros are going. I feel this might be the biggest issue. My motor will be coming out at some point. When that happens, Im going to completely rebuild the trans at the same time. Sorta refresh everything.

Otherwise, Ive been very happy with the Tick parts and things are working well. Im using Super Blue high performance brake fluid and as long as I keep up with the fluid changes and bleed it every so often it is standable.

If a trans rebuild, slave swap, and new clutch doesnt make it shift the way I want...Im going to automatic hahaha.

stoning_volcom

is it easier to drop the motor from under the car then to put it over top? like you did? kinda new to the lsx swap world so tryin to figure things out so when i go to do mine itll make it a lil easier. also your brakes the ls1 conversion brakes you have on the car, does that allow you to put the 4th gen and corvette rims on without the spacers? and do they sell a kit for the rear as well?

Thanks, Evan

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

I pulled mine from the top, but if I was going to pull it again, I'd drop it like he did.

I have 98+ brakes on my car, needed small spacers to keep running my GTA wheels (1/16" thick I think), I don't think they change the front much. Contact Ed Miller (ebMiller) on here, usually can be found in the Brakes board. I got my setup from him, good guy, knows his stuff and is easy to work with. If anyone has a kit for the rear, either he will, or he will know who does.

What are you planning to swap in?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

I like dropping it from the bottom better...obviously. For one, I dont even want to try to take out the stupid motor mount bolts haha. I also have my car set up to allow for dropping out of the bottom (brake line routing, etc)

As for the LS brakes...On the fronts, when you do the conversion, you shouldnt need spacers to run your stock wheels. It actually spaces your stock wheels out like 1/4" (thickness of the rotor hat). In order to run 4th gen or vette wheels on the front with the LS1 brakes, you will need a 1.7" spacer. I got mine from Skulte, but I dont think you can get em anymore. Im sure someone else sells them though.

IN the rear, if you are running your stock 3rd gen rear, you need 2.0" or 1.7" spacers. Im running a rear set up for a 4th gen, so I didnt need any spacers. Thats the main reason I went with 4th gen wheels. To fit over the front brakes, and to require no spacers in the rear.

J.

stoning_volcom

Why are the motor mounts that hard to take out? i no on my sbc it isnt hard or is it just a pain to get it back in? lol but yea ghetto i got another question for ya you said on the rear of your car you have a 4th rear end? if that is so wouldnt the rim stick out>? or is that with the use of stock 3rd gen rims?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Its not impossible to remove the motor mount bolts, but its a pain. That was just one reason though... its just easier in general in my opinion. No removing the hood (which is a pain to re-align on a firebird even with guide holes through the hinges), no tilting the motor and dumping fluids, no chains to figure out where to bolt onto the heads, no removing the intake for fear of the chains cracking it...etc etc.

As for the rear question, its a 4th gen rear with 4th gen wheels. So it fits and looks exactly as it does in a 4th gen. The rear of the 3rd gen vs. 4th gen are nearly identical. In fact, the only real difference is the total width of the rear. If you put 3rd gen wheels on the 4th gen rear, they will stick out alittle. Some guys have done this without it looking too too bad. But I didnt watn that.

J.

stoning_volcom

yea i did see one pic of someone that did and it didnt look good. So i ws reading some of the stuff on wireing up third gen for ls1 now did you use the hawks set up? or did you free ball it? either way ghetto you did one hell of a job. Its sems as though you are a perfectionist lol i no i am but yea great looking thirdgen. If you dont mind when i start mine ill prolly ask you questions not to good with the wireing but there is only one way to learn

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

stoning... My bad man! I didnt mean to not respond to your post. Totally didnt even see it. My wiring was completely done by me using existing LS1 engine and body harnesses. If you still have questions...feel free to ask.
--------------------------------------

Ok guys. The FIRST official day of working on the car for 2010 is tomorrow!!! Im also going to give DIY videos a shot, so my first one will be on installing the RevExtreme catch can. Maybe on painting it too since I got it in bare aluminum.

I will also be doing a write up on painting and installing an aftermarket fiberglass Aero spoiler. Not sure if Ill do videos on that whole deal...Ill def take pictures though. There isnt a whole lot of good info on how to install one of those things...surprisingly. Maybe I will do a vid. I might be switching to the under the wing brake light vs. my hatch glass light. Might have to get creative with the holes in the hatch glass there..

So...does anyone need pictures or want specifics on anything? Now is the time. I can take pictures, videos, or whatever you need.

Also on the list is oil/fluids change, general clean up, and maybe some other odds and ends.

Let me know ladies and gents!!

J.

mwfrels

Justin, yes there is some info that would be of use to me. The long tube headers that I used on my cars in days of old always ended up with semi-flatted runners leading into the collectors due to them sitting lower on the car than anything such as the engine x-mamber or frame rails could protect. Before swapping in an LS motor with nice costly sst headers I plan on welding on some extension pieces to the subframes next to the low points where the headers will be. From what pics I have seen this is especially needed on the passenger side. If at some occasion you have you car off the ground could I please get you to take some pics of the positions of the header runners and collectors relative to the subframes? If you could include in the pics a tape measure or large measuring scale in the fore or background to show both the vertical location and front/back in reference to the rail. Both sides if the driver side header also extends below the rail.

I am trying to get as much as possible engineering and fabrication work done long before swap time comes around.

Mike

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Mike,
I snapped some pictures for ya. Unfrotunatly, I had my car off the ground...but it was back on the ground before I got your post haha. But I snuck some pictures from under the car and tried to get a tape measure in there. Im exhausted, and have a slightly busy day tomorrow, but I should have the pictures posted by tomorrow at some point

I can tell you that the lowest point of the headers is about 3" or so. And Im lowered about 1.5 all around...approximately. I NEVER hit my headers on anything. Even speed bumps. They've been really road friendly thus far.

Brought her back home tonight. Man it was nice driving with the t-tops. Ill post pictures of the work I did tomorrow at some point. Ill be driving the heck out of it this weekend to make sure no bugs pop up from sitting all winter.

J.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

1) Where to attach the chains from the motor brace that you used to do the k-member removal (I got one after I saw your post using it). This should be a no-brainer, but there is scarce information on these boards on how to do this job safely.

2) How to remove your awesome AC system and put it in a shipping box You know you want to clean up that engine bay

Thanks!

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Haha... The A/C system is stayin for now... I finally got the oil smell to stop coming into the interior, so I can actually use the vents now haha. Ill give it a while, and decide.

As for the chains, I just bolted them to the heads. Passenger side is easy. Drivers side is a little tougher. But I was able to sneak a bolt in behind the power steering reservoir. You might need to trim the bolt down so it just clears. Worked pretty good.

Guys I seriously get a fail for the video haha. I got to working, and discovered setting up to take video by yourself is a royal pain. Then I couldnt get my camera to work right, so I just said F it and did my work.

Ill post some pictures of the catch can, as well as the exhaust clearance pictures I said Ide post. The spoiler swap is done...that'll get a thread of its own since I think more people will get good info from it if its in the body forum.

J.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Ok... I went with the Rev-Xtreme catch can after doing some research. The can is nice. A little pricey, but I figure worth it, because the oil fumes coming into the cabin were TERRIBLE with the breather. Ill never use a breather again. Hopefully I fix my engine issues and wont really need the can either.

One thing that bothered me about the can was the PCV valve was sticking up from the top. So...I wasnt sure how you were supposed to get hose to come up, make a 90* turn, not kink, and not hit the hood. Stupid idea IMO. They used to come out the side. SO I got an emission hose from the HELP! section that worked good.

Also, the can comes with a sort of crappy drain. THe placement makes it hard to get to, and the oil that comes out will drip right onto the A/C compressor and heater hoses. So I built a little extension, that isnt permanent. It doesnt let it drain very easy. I need to build something with 45's so gravity can do its thing easier.

On to the pics.

This is my drain contraption. Yes I painted it silver haha.


The hose I got.








Off that nipple on the end is a piece of 3/8 hose with a 90* bend in it. So it points towards the ground. All I do is put a cup under it, and open the valve to drain it. Should work ok

Here are the pictures for mwfrels. Sorry I couldnt get better pictures. Here are the two collectors with measuring tape. Also a shot from the rear of the car close to the ground.







They tuck up pretty nice. I have some other pictures in my threads of the headers, but not very good pictures. If I had a lift I could get some good ones. Hopefully that helps ya out some.

Oh...and one more shot of the new spoiler and brake light. Looks SO much better without the glass mount light. That thing ruined the lines IMO.



J.

mwfrels

Three inches from the ground! You are one lucky man that you have not bottomed them out on anything yet. From laying a scale on my monitor and comparing I get a rough dimension of ~2 inches below the frame rail. This is useful info. Thanks for taking the pics. Can't really tell from these pics but what is the distance relative to the frame rail that the runner tubes come down and turn under into the collector? By that I mean it looks like in the scary three inch pic that the tubes are a little forward of the rail.

BTW I understand your joy at getting rid of the '86 only fugly HMSL. I swapped out the hatch glass on my '86 Camaro years ago with a much more elegant interior HMSL glass from a '91.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

They must have JUST RECENTLY changed the design of their can, because mine isn't like that. The PCV isn't on top like yours is, and I just got it back in October or so?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

I must be the only person who likes the 86 3rd brake light. If i had one handy Id swap it onto my 92

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

haha Pocket I have a perfect light that Ill sell ya! Just figure out how to drill holes into your hatch glass, run a couple wires up there and youre set!!! The glass has an extra track on the drivers side that goes to the light, and the light uses the power form the defrost I think. haha.

Im still thinking about switching to a non-defrost rear glass. For now, Im going to leave it along. Maybe when its time for the re-paint. I just didnt like the way that HMSL busted up the lines of the car from the side. Just stuck out like a sore thumb.

Nick...Yeah I guess they just changed? I dont see the use in it coming out of the top. They could have atleast included some sort of 90* fitting since its obvious you cant just have the hose come straight up.

mwfrels: yeah man..I dont hit them anywhere. I hit my clamps every so often. If im not careful. I know guys lowered more than me that dont see to have a problem. Here are a couple more pictures. They're posted in my exhaust threads, but Ill toss a couple up here for the heck of it.









Those help any? Like I said..they tuck pretty nice.

Gonna put my spoiler install write up online tomorrow maybe...check the body forum or Ill put a link here.

J.

mwfrels

Justin, these are good and sorta tell me my fabs for the extensions need to be about 2.5 inches tall to protect the headers. I found this pic way back on page 1 of this thread.



Do you remember whether or not the crossmember was snug against the frame when it was taken? This is the sort of references I also need to get a better idea on how long to make my frame extensions.

Mike (the M in mwfrels)

mwfrels

Oh yeah, one of the other reasons for creating the extensions I am talking about is because the frame rails where they are gonna be attached are the GM engineered lift pads where a four-point lift touch. I want to maintain this lifting ability for the occasion when my car may have to go to a shop for any unplanned reason.

Mike

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Mike, Judging by the fact that the motor and trans are still on the dolly, there is a good change it wasnt bolted completely together yet.

I can picture what youre trying to do for the extensions. Im just not sure you'll need em. Are you lowering the car a lot?

Also...I hate to say it...but lowered a little like my car is, I still cant get a shops lift pads under my car. Especially the high weight capacity lifts...their arms and pads are usually a bit higher. The last shop tried to drive my car over one of those lifts that comes up from the floor, and couldnt make it haha.

So the extensions might make it harder to get a lift under. A low profile floor jack would probably still be ok.

Our cars are the biggest pain in the butt to get off the ground.

How thick are you planning to make the extensions?

J.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

My car sits uber-low but the two shops I take it to both have lifts that I can still get the car on. One has an alignment rack style lift with ramps and the other has the swing-out lift arms that barely fit under the ground effects, but it does work! I have to use a low profile jack at home, I have a nice Craftsman piece at home that works well.

mwfrels

Justin, that particular pic was I believe as you were taking the engine out of your '87. I do apologize for not cropping off all the kitty litter. That exact same shot but possibly a little closer is what I need of your current installation. In my driving life all of my cars have at some time grounded out on speed bumps, wheel dropped into a hole, or gone off the edge of the pavement and metal undercarriage has met hard concrete or asphalt. This is what has flattened runner tubes in the past. I just plan on spending a little extra time on some insurance that when the unplanned happens there is as little damage to the nice header tubes as possible. My car is currently stock height and I plan on keeping it close to that. I already have scrapes on the passenger side subframe from a water hidden chuckhole many years back. The unplanned happens...

Mike

Jeromey Cummins

iTrader: (5)

Nice work man!

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

They can get my car onto the alignment rack lift...but they need to put planks down to get it started. The post style lifts come close, but the heavy duty ones have bigger pads and pad heights. Even still...I have those air deflector things that Im not ready to tear off, and they stop just about anything from going under there haha.

My jack at home is heavy as hell (100lbs) low profile jack. It works...still a pain in the butt though. The worst is when the wheels sink into the driveway, so the car shifts when it gets high vs. the jack rolling under the car to position itself.

I HATE the thought of a garage putting my car up on a post lift... Too much stuff to damage.

J.

P.S...Here's my write up on the fiberglass spoiler install and HMSL delete.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...r-spoiler.html

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Whats up everyone. Well...I did some "work" on the ride today, hoping to improve my shifting. My shifting is garbage. One second its shifting butter smooth, two minutes later it'll hardly let me into gear.

So today, I tried a bunch of crap. I drained the fluid, and refilled with Mobil 1, I put a spring shim in the Pro5.0 to help with centering, and greased up the shifter ball.

Then, I put almost a full quart of fluid through the clutch hydraulics. Bled, and bled and bled.

The results? WORSE THAN WHEN I STARTED!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It blocks me out of 2nd sometimes...??? Third is even worse. It'll block me out of 3rd, then slip right into forth. Im so irriated Im ready to swap to an auto.

The only thing I can think of...well...things.

A) My trans doesnt want Mobil 1 in it. That crap is gonna go, and at almost $8 a quart, that was a HUGE waste of money. Really ticked about that.

2) The autozone slave cylinder that is in there is junk. I have a GM unit on the shelf, just too lazy to pull the trans.

iii) The trans needs to be rebuilt. It supposed has upgraded parts in it...but I never confirmed that. Thinking about pulling it and installing a Stage II rebuild kit from Tick. Will change the slave and inspect the clutch at that point. If my clutch is junk...Im stuck because I cant afford a new one on top of the rebuild package.

Just really at my wits end. The car is ZERO fun to drive anymore. Part of me wants to just drop the clutch, and start yanking gears without pushing the clutch at WOT...and just blow it to pieces. UGGGGGGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/rant

J.