let's revisit headers for lsx swaps...


for starters the 4th gen heads we know the collector hits ant least the drivers side correct?? but do the primary tubes clear on the way to the frame?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-02...item19c820108c


these look like you could cut off the collector and cut off the last bend of pipe in front of the collectors. then reweld the collector aimed in towards the trans.

 

I'm sure we will all know once the overseas companies start marketing our headers themselves.

This topic has been discussed far to much, from what I remember 4th gen headers aren't really even close and hang to low.

Your better off just saving your pennies for SSW headers.

 

I know what your saying but not really the answers this thread is intended for. I already have a set of hawks headers


of course there are dozens on dozens of threads saying they dont fit and if any do say anything they say its the direction of the collector. id be very surprised if they hang lower than the swap headers. they use the same oil pan and trans we are using.

the main issue I dont have an answer on is the routing of the primary tubes. they way i see it I had to rework my hawks headers to make them fit properly (still not ideal but very usable now)

perhaps if had bought 4th gen headers like these the work I had to endure would have been better off on a cheaper set with larger primary tubes

 

This has been covered to death. A search would have provided you the answer. I posted my findings a LONG time ago.

4th gen headers don't fit...anywhere. They would require a complete redesign to work. You could use them from the head to a few inches below that. But they hit the frame rail, k-member, and I don't remember what else. I tried a few different brands. I also tried a few other vehicle's headers (C5, C6, TBSS, Silverado, GTO to name a few). The only ones that came close to working, were the 2010 Camaro headers. They fit perfect, but they hung down way too low.

 

i'm keeping my eyes open to see if the company (obx?) doing the "knock off" 1 5/8" swap headers does anything bigger. would love some long tubes....

 

You guys should make some .

 

well I did a search if you would have read my post...

FYI im not new here Ive known that there is no direct fit header so far. other than one vendor I care not to mention, but at least you answered my question on the 4th gen headers primary tubes.


I would venture to say I may still keep my eyes open for a set cheap. after all there has been so many things people said couldn't be done and then I did it as have many other people

 

So this does not answer your question?

 

If someone found a set of headers that fit with "minimal" cutting and welding, they'd be elevated to hero status for a lot 3rd Gen/Gen III swappers.

Good luck in your noble quest...

 

my thought here is grabbing a set of 3rd gen sbc long tubes, pair of lsx primary flanges, and going to town with a welder. otherwise, its still limited to the SW/Hawks long tubes.

but i agree entirely. Pocket's made a valiant effort in this area; swear he's gone through like a half dozen different ones so far....

 

no i was asking about 4th gen headers and the primary routing you didnt sound too sure.



not really on a quest but I do think if i see a set cheap I will get them and see how close they really are. there are so many different primary tube routing though. ... the ones I posted looked like they would be the best out of the ones Ive seen most look like the bends and loops are near the collector this looks to be very strait when it reaches the bottom of the car


like I said I doubt they hang lower than the passenger side hawks header. that one is nuts

 

Don't take a picture in an ebay listing to seriously. I work for a company thats primary selling is done on ebay. We almost never take our own pictures, we use the ones the manufacturer provides. And when it comes to things like headers, that image not not be 100% to every bend what you end up getting. Lots of companies render images in photoshop to make their product look better, you may want to ask them if that is an accurate image of the product you will receive.

 

good point! my cheap *** would most likely buy used locally anyway but if I get the itch to order I will have to ask now

 

i know when i had my 5.3l rx7 the guys were modding mustang longtube headers to fit. the engine bays almost have about the same clearances. they would pretty much just cut the flanges off and weld LSx style flanges on them.

heres Hawks headers:


dunno whose these are:


heres a mustang longtube header:




pretty damn close if you ask me.

i got a great exhaust guy that likes to build up all my crazy ideas and maybe ill actually try this out.

 

dunno if this would help but heres some moar pics.

 

So we're still in the same old boat as before. Maybe I'll just order a CheaTR v3 for now, since I'll be using manifolds when I add the T76. Who needs headers anyway? Not me.

 

Dan, you know ET Duvals here in leominster? im friends with the owner, maybe we should just partner up and have them fab up 50 sets of lsx swap LT's...

 

not heard of them, but still kinda green when it comes to shops around. interesting thought, but I'm broke as joke (and I don't get much say in 1A's banks accounts, haha). but may be worth seeing what they think.

slightly off topic, but i think there's a bigger market for a drop in y-pipe solution for those of us running around with 4th gen manifolds/shorties. one of the only items I had to have custom made for this swap, may encourage more to jump on board that don't have the tech skills to weld....

 

I'd spend a couple hundred for such a Y-pipe, but the only way it works is modifying an oil pan. Either notch the F-pan, or cut the depth off the rear of the H3A / "muscle car" pan. Either way, then you have to do a custom suction tube. Can't figure the Holley pan, even if it would fit behind the new y-pipe and not be too deep, because that pan is $400!

 

I have that pan, and it should allow more rear clearance to run a stock exhaust routing, but it may be too deep at the front. The MAST pan seems like a better candidate, but it is even more at ~$425

 

the one i got from pocket requires nothing special to the pan, just a slightly different crossmember (much like the hawks long tube y-pipe IIRC). If someone got creative with oval tubing at the crossmember section, you could probably get away without having to change that too and keep ground clearance.

 

I am new here although i have been on LS1TECH for quite some time, but I am coming back to my true passion 3rd gens. I have been looking at the CTS-V header design and it looks very close ? I need a 2" primary long tube for a new 454lsx I'm building. The mustang headers are very promising too. I have a friend with a big Ford shop here in NY and I am going to see if he wants to help me out with some testing ? I will share what I come up with ?

 

big block swap headers with an LS flange..?

 

How can that work? Every relevant law I've ever read about requires keeping the cat(s) in the stock location. Your proposal makes no provision for any cat anywhere.

 

CTS-V pic or link, please?

 

Well if you guys sold us headers at a reasonable price then there would probably be a bunch of pre-made y-pipes showing up in the classifieds. I know mine would be.

 

i asked the same question about the big block headers with LSX flanges. they cost of big block headers is about the same as just buyin swap headers.

 

I thought about selling my Y pipe but its too custom and I feel the y-pipe is much more of a custom deal than the headers. the headers can end at a good height and the rest of your ground clearance will be decided on the trans cross-member , TQ Arm setup and trans used. mine just fits but id guess a hawks cross-member would hit or I guess my y-pipe would hit it. its a little ugly too but its 3"

if i made cross-member I would make them like mine and I dont think too many people would want to spend as much if not more than hawks price. mine has the tq arm mount and I have frame plates towards the rear of the sub frame for the correct support you really should have

 

IMHO you cant use factory location (3rd or 4th gen) cats with a LSx swap in a 3rd gen for any type of swap. No room under the chassis for the cats and/or routing

3rd gen location, Ive seen one guy run the drivers crossover under the bellhousing on a 4L60E which killed ground clearance. He said he never scraped, but theres just no way. I checked on mine with stock ride height springs and it was a no-go

4th gen location, you can cram a pair of pup cats in the stock location up front but doing that, you'd need rear which cant fit anywhere

This is all with manifolds or the silly stock replacement shorty headers

Back on the topic of headers, Id like to see a complete redesign of long tubes for better trans fitment, O2 placement and general room to work. This would make building a Y-pipe so much easier. Its obvious no known production header is even close to fitting, so it back to the drawing board

 

could have these guys do some.

http://www.stainlessheaders.com/customheaders

 

did I see this correctly? 2k WOW I could mess up a bunch of bends and still come out ahead.


we have the room I just need the time to make my own

the hawks headers are over priced too but it would be worth every penny if they would just listen to the customers and fix the fit. they are close very close but tossing that money down Id expect a better fit. no reason for the passanger header to hang so low




Like I was saying I think most of this will come down to the make of the 4th gen header since there are so many styles of primary bends

 

Perhaps a set of big block thirdgen headers modded to fit with LSx flanges? STill some work to do but possibly cheaper than using Hawks headers if you have some fab skills and a welder

My buddy used a set of big block headers for his el camino, and modded them alittle to fit the 6.0 liter truck motor he put in it. Just had to modify the flange and one primary tube up near the head.

Just a thought.

I'm surprised at this.... why would you lose ground clearance by going under the transmission instead of the oil pan like stock thirdgens? Assuming you dont use the stock lower tranny cover that hides the converter. I dont have a LS motor but with shorty type headers, I run my downpipe under the converter and have plenty of clearance. This is with dual 3" pipes going down stock location and I have a big x-pipe in the stock 'cat' location, so I would think with proper shorty type headers on the lsx, you can bend/fab a ypipe to run under the converter with clearance and run down stock location keeping stock location cat. Theres plenty of room under there for mini ypipe using shorty type headers. Longtubes is a whole different story. Just thinkin outloud here.

Edit: if its suppose to be smog legal and use 4th gen cat setup on the thirdgen that may be harder to do but still possible with a tiny shorty type header.

 

Here's a link to the CTS-V headers I have found them in stainless versions for as little as $400 ? Soon I will be trying the 2010 Camaro headers on my tall deck LSX 3rd gen ? From the cars I have looked at the CTS headers have a slight inward bend on the collectors, that should work good on the camaro too ?

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/im.../p40702272.jpg

 

those do look similar to the thirdgen hooker LT headers so it may be a close fit with minimal work...

 

the part where others hit look especially similar

 

LSx 4L60E's use a 360* bellhousing. There is no cover to leave off because its cast in. There is a bit of space at the base of the bellhousing near the pan, but still not enough to cram even a 2.5" tube without hanging below the pan some. If you did that, the exhaust would have to point back forward again to go to the stock routing

Looks like they will hit the rear mounts for the lower A-arms just like the 2010 camaro headers

 

yeah there isnt much room under there.

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/Hooker/520/2210/10002/-1

 

Doh! I should have known this I have a 99 TA with an auto but just didnt realize it was full 360 deg. That makes sense now.

 

One of us just needs to make a set, and then get with a manufacturer to produce them. That way, all of our needs are met. I have unique mods that require slightly different bends (rack and pinion conversion...steering shaft hits primaries), but would still fit most normal swaps. I need the collectors to NOT hang below the frame rails.

I was in contact with a guy at hooker a couple of years ago, and we were talking about doing this. I sent him a bunch of pics and everything of the ones I made for my car. But he fell off the face of the earth.

$800 is not a bad price for a swap header. I would pay that. BUT, for that price they should have equal length tubes, a quality collector (merge or something like it), and ceramic coating. Just my opinion.

 

maybe moddify some TSP headers

as you can see the 4th gens dont hang too low just the drivers side one that kicks out way too far. passanger side slightly too... almost like the hawks header JK would be a good idea to get someone like TSP to take some modded headers and produce them.. these are 1 7/8" I see a few guys on here had modified 4th gen headers to fit but never a picture. would suck if they are afraid to post pictures due to bad welds.

 

Im kinda new to the whole header situation all i know is that it sucks, all i see is people trying to use long tubes, would shorties come close to fitting?

 

Has this been tried yet...I just had the same thought.

 

yes, most shortys made for 98-02 firebirds/camaros will fit. i cant say ALL of them because i honestly dont know.

 

Check my first post. The only thing useable on 4th gen headers is the flanges and collectors. You have to redesign them to make them fit. I tried it a few years ago. In a thread below this, it seems Headman is coming out with a set, which is good. I like the ceramic coating option

Whoever the next manufacturer is that makes a swap header needs to consult me! NONE of the swap headers will work if you have swapped to a rack and pinion. It would be a simple fix and the headers would still work with either steering setup.

Oh, and I tried to contact TSP about making some but I never got a response.

 

.

 

Sounds like you need to build your own headers

 

If this is directed toward me...I did . I need to build another set and send them off for coating (and so I can make a few changes). High temp paint no workie.

 

 

did you ever try them headers to see if you could get them to fit? im very intrested