I'm finally getting started on my LS6 / T56 swap. I purchased a wrecked 2004 CTSv last fall, not knowing that it has some unique parts that may not work well during the swap (T56 is slightly different, front accessories are different, oil pan is different). But it does have the LS6 which was the deal maker for me. The motor will be going in stock, aside from exhaust. I'll also be using the Brembos from the V.

I've owned my Camaro for 13 years now, and during that time I've done a lot of that-is-good-enough part swaps because it was my daily driver. During this swap I would like to fix all those. Obviously it needs quite a bit of body work, but that will have to come after this is complete. I'll probably ask a lot of dumb questions along the way, so please bear with me.

This swap will take quite a bit of time due to my limited technical know-how and limited wallet fullness, but it should be a good time.

Here is the V going away:


Camaro after its last drive with the LO3.


Last shot of the LO3


Progress after a few hours of working on it today


Looking forward to updating this!

 

nice grab on the ctsv, But arent The Cts V the supercharged v8s?

 

Earlier model V's were ls6's.Not sure what years started coming with the sc..I want to say around 09+

For ease of the swap you can get fbody accessories,oil pan and just change the shifter cup to fbody on the trans and you are good to go.

Dont sweat the swap..there is an abundance of knowledge here to be almost step by step how to guide.I was in the same position as you and the lil mistakes I did were nothing major and its all been done before on here so no such sthing as stupid questions..might get you stupid answers from some to be funny lol.Good luck on your build,you will enjoy every penny..I promise that much.

 

Thanks guys.

Finally had a second day to work on the car. ShiftyCapone came over and we were able to get the motor out. This morning I was able to get the wiring out (for the dummies like me -- when removing the wiring, remove the collar from the interior behind the kick panel where the wiring goes into the fender. I stared at that for about 30 minutes before figuring it out). Got a couple misc parts off (cruise, evap, shifter, shifter cable).





Dumb questions for the day:
1. What do I do with the lines that used to go to the evap canister? Just plug it somehow?
2. I got all the engine wiring out, do I need to remove the wiring that connected to the gear selector? I assume this is where I'll wire up my reverse lockout, neutral safety switch, reverse lights, etc?

Next I need to start to tear out the k member and front brakes so I can prep for that. I guess at this point my credit card will start to get a work out

Thanks!
Chuck

 

Man, you're gonna love that thing when its finished. Mine is just a lowly LS1, and its a blast with just bolt ons. The LS6 with headers and a good air intake setup should be good for 370+rwhp and some serious tire shredding torque. Good luck with the swap. Glad to see another LSX swap 3rd gen in Ohio.

 

A/c or no ?

 

Definitely on a watch this thread, I have a 91 RS with an l03 also, just got my 350 block back from the machine shop, it'll be a vortec 383 with a carb when all is said and done, can't wait to see yours, I love LS engines but when you're 18 and working 48+ hour weeks, it's still hard to afford that sh*t haha

 

was the ctsv wrecked im guessing for it to be parted out?

 

I know your in a time crunch, I don't know if you have the trans figured out but its looks like the CTSV rear end (trans) is different. Just a heads up so you can prepare. post #1 second open picture

http://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tra...body-pics.html

Pinouts

cruise and brake post #4
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...e-control.html

PCM post #2

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...g-diagram.html

MAF

http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-c...ut-needed.html

C207, C100, single fan, simple fuel control, coolant temp sensor, post #1

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...formation.html

T56, post #8, ground/power dist, another C100, H20 ignition, post # 24

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...formation.html

TAC + cruise

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...spx?ItemId=822

VSS buffer box (only needed for TBI cars)

TBI cars hook it (speedo) to C207 pin K (BRN) and bypass the buffer box by connecting pins C&F (buffer box).

Connect pin F to pin C (buffer box). In the schematic its BRN to BRN. In the buffer box pictured, its BRN to LT GRN. After the connection, the box can be removed.

Quoted from Pocket

http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport...SS_V8_vinE.jpg

picture of vss buffer box post #17

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...nformation.htm

PCM and coils ign. ran off C207,
MAF, TAC, trans ran off C100 ign. (A6)
fuel pump, A/C comp, fused at battery (power dist.)

VSS buffer box

http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport...SS_V8_vinE.jpg

 

This thread is almost two years old.
He either abandoned the project, stalled on the project, or it is finished and he never bothered to update the thread.

 

Finishing it soon...

 

Any updates you can share? Maybe some pics?

 

interested in this please update

 

Success ....


Got it fired up about a week ago, but managed to move to Houston in the interim for work. The car is in route to a speed shop to finish the exhaust and a couple small things I couldnt get done and wont be able to work on for a couple months while we find a house down here ... but for the most part its all ready to roll.

CTSv accessories worked with a BMR tubular k-member and a-arms, AC barely cleared the k-member. Had to clearance the lower AC idler pulley mount so the idler arm didnt hit it when turning the wheel.

I'll get some better pics of it, but here are a couple.

I kept the DBW and it works. The mount was based ('Leveraged' in corporate speak) on the great work Alan91z28 did in this thread:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...gine-swap.html

Tucker helped me out a ton with the wiring, cant thank him enough.

I got a really nice deal on the V when it was wrecked, but if you are buying a drop out LS motor, I'd do a fbody LS1 with 243 heads and intake if you wanted an LS6. It gets expensive fast to make the V stuff work unless you're a good mechanic. I can do enough, but changing main shafts in a trans is outside my comfort zone so things like that add up.

Chuck

 

Here is a bit more info I collected or went through during the swap:

Oil pan:
Information on the various LS oil pans and components including part numbers (I used the fbody since the CTSv would not work):
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...-oil-pans.html

Trans:
I found someone on ls1tech that did the conversion to my transmission that essentially made the MN12 found in the CTSv a hybrid CTSv/fbody/GTO. It would be much easier to sell the MN12 and buy a T56 out of an body and swap it, but I wanted mine rebuilt anyways, and it wasn’t much more to change the shifter linkage, main shaft (from a GTO, I believe) and tail housing, plus I get the more aggressive gearing from the MN12. Here are the pics he took:
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...0128_CTSV-T56/


Clutch hydraulics:
Dual mass flywheel - the CTSv has a bulky, sloppy two piece flywheel to make it smoother to drive (it is a Caddy…) This requires a spacer you can get from Katech (sp?) if you want to run the LS7 clutch, or you can use the LS7 clutch, flywheel, and slave cylinder and eliminate the spacer. I also replace the pilot bearing, which had to be from a Caddy. The slave cylinder hard line for the LS7 has to be bent to run along the side of the trans. Just take your time and it wont kink.
Info here:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-c...-flywheel.html

Clutch Master cylinder:
I used a Tick MC from a 4th gen fbody but had to use the short C6 line from the MC to the slave cylinder since I used the LS7 slave. The C6 line bolted on fine and routes fine. I also used the 5th gen Fbody slave cylinder speed bleeder which has a straight end that plugs into the slave. Call up tick and they’ll help you out

Electronics:
Wiring needs to be converted to fit your swap
CTSv uses a two wire coolant temp sensor, you’ll need a 3 wire Fbody CTS (hawks sells it with a pigtail)
The 1 wire 4th gen body oil pressure sending unit fits the stock thirdgen connector and will read oil pressure

Random:
The stock size replacement belt for a CTSv didnt fit (I’m not sure why?), but Dayco 5060825 is one inch longer and fits perfect
You’ll need a block off plate over where the oil filter is located which are on ebay for inexpensive
I bought a stock 3rdgen clutch fluid reservoir mount that attaches the the brake master cylinder
The S10/blazer power distribution block thats desired for this conversion is found on the late model trucks on the drivers side fender up near the firewall. They are all over the junk yard and cheap, I paid $8

Fuel:
I used push loc lines from fragola. I failed miserably at doing the fittings myself, but for $5 a hose ($15 total!) fragola will put the ends in and ship them to you. Its worth the headache to have them do it. I used the stock hard lines and earl’s adaptors from metric to 6AN, had a friend make a make a small bracket to mount the fuel pressure regulator to. Here are the Summit PNs for the push loc lines, but again just order it direct:
Fragola:
-8000 series (806006 6' hose 6AN $22 ea)
6AN hose to 6AN female:*200106 (7x $4 ea)
6AN fuel to 6AN female:* 209006 (1x $13 ea)
Hardline to 6AN:
9894DBHERL (1) - 14mm to -6AN
9894DBJERL (1) - 16mm to -6AN
6AN to fuel rail quick connect fitting:
Russell 644120 (double check this)
AFPR to 6AN fuel line male connector
15606 (also comes in a pack of 3 which is cheaper)
AFPR
AER-13109 (1)*

Suspension:
BMR A-arms + k-member
Koni yellow shocks/struts
J&M adjustable strut towers
Eibach sportline springs
Moog front end rebuild parts

I also used the hawks double hump trans mount, which had to have the fuel lines run under it. It is a bear to line up, it helps if you have two people when putting it on

Various part numbers that may be useful to others:
LS7 clutch kit - (GM PD: pkc6ls7clutchkit, SD: SDLS7CK, summit: 24255748 + 12571611)
LS7 slave cylinder - 24237634 (double check when order)
LS7 clutch bolts: pressure plate: 12561465 or ARP 134-2201 12561465-6 (need 6)
LS7 flywheel bots: 11569956 or ARP 330-2802 (need 6)
Fbody oil pan gasket - 12612350
Fbody windage tray - 12558253
Fbody dip stick - 12551581
Fbody dip stick tube - 12551577
Fbody o-ring for oil pump pickup - 12557752
CTSv / LS6 Pilot bearing - 12557583
Clutch alignment tool
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...110944&ci_sku=
Clutch speed bleeder - tick for 5th gen camaro
T56 torque arm mount (different than automatic mount) - two pieces
10252375
10252374


Chuck

 

The A/C compressor is ran as a stand alone (no PCM) off of the relay activated by your head unit.
I hope I got the right compressor connector, Cadillac uses a funky two year only connector. There was no diode on the connector from the factory. The gauge of the wire seamed too small but it is factory. The high pressure switch (Cadillac) is ran to the PCM and according to the tuners I talked to, should automatically turn on the cooling fan with A/C. It will not offer any pressure protection for the system. For protection there are some other options such as using the third gen high/low pressure sensors in series. Tuners wanted $500 for the tune to get A/C through the PCM but could not tell me what pin it would use or if your PCM was capable of accepting the tune.

A/C pressure is, Green 14 OG/BK, Blue 45 GY sensor pin B, Green 57 TN.

http://austinthirdgen.org/mkportal/m..._continued.gif

 

Hello Chuck I have a 87 with a 2005 CTS V.
I kept the original 3 bolt tail shaft config, via a adapter.
I did sneak a Ford 9" floater onto the car, added my own Torque arm and a fabbed crossmember.

I just looked at my blog, I need to update, Kirkey seats, short throw shifter, harness bar etc.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...my-canyon.html

 

Looks like you're a little further along than I am now How did you mount your PCM and DBW controller?

Trying to finish this thing up and get it inspected in TX. It runs and drives strong though.

The stock male/male power steering pressure hose will "work" but it will leak. The V uses a swivel o-ring on the pump side. PN 80450 for a 2009ish Ford F350 will work, but its a little long. I will probably have one made.

fyi -- the hose ends are 16mm swivel o-ring (to pump) and 18mm male o-ring (to steering box)

 

Funny, I was going to ask you the same on the throttle pedal.
The pcm is in the same spot with the original Camaro brackets.
If I take it apart this week, I'll try to take some pics.
I used the same upper and lower brackets it works great.
The throttle pedal is horrible, I cannot toe and heel very well.
I was just about to reconfig that in the next two to three weeks, a friend of mine wants a shot at it.

 

I stole Alan91z28's bracket almost spot on. I was lucky enough to print it out and take it to a local machine shop who recreated it almost perfectly. The only thing I'll tweak is that the pedal isnt spot on straight, its a little crooked... but these swaps are just a series of on going tweaks

Pedal bracket reference:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...gine-swap.html -- page 3 post 115ish

 

(this is in response to a PM, if anyone is wondering why I am randomly writing on this thread)


The aftermarket relay on your harness is the A/C. All my notes on the A/C are post #16 of this thread.


This is the A/C connector pin outs,
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...-pin-outs.html


post # 13 A/C wiring for PCM control
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ng-i-need.html

 

Great thanks. HPTuners now has the ability to set A/C request type to analog for blue/green ECM cars, so I think I can get AC going with native controls and still use a pressure switch to keep it safe. Give me a couple weeks to collect the parts.

 

We had the wrong diagram, should be the one from post #13 not #21
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ng-i-need.html


The compressor will ground itself through the mounting bracket/engine.


The fuel pump has its own fuse located near the battery (within 12"-18"), if there is a second fuse next to the fuel pump relay that will be the hot for the A/C relay.

 

Relay is wired up with fused hot to 30 and 86, compressor signal to 87, and ECM to relay on 85. Need to cut the green wire from the HVAC controls and run it to PCM green 17 (5v input), and green 43 (ground to relay). Ran out of time this AM. On the diagram in post 13, it references a signal from green 18 to the relay which I dont think is required for green/blue ECMs based on the pinouts for the V, as well as the trucks that run this hardware.

Need to get two AC lines made, and buy a new hard line, as well as the condensor. So that may take a bit to locate the parts. Spoke with the tuner and he can enable analog to ECM as well as fans on for AC when car is under x speed (x is editable). I think once that is done I hope I'll have working AC with stock controls.

One question is if the thirdgen pressure signal will work, or if I need to run the V one. Will probably try with the thirdgen and see if it works.

So probably still a couple weeks out, but getting closer. The last thing to be hooked up to make it driveable in Texas weather. Ugh.

 

The A/C should be fused as a Caddy because that's what it is, but I can't find the factory fuse rating. The thirdgen was fused with a 25 amp. I would think the Caddy would be more efficient, so I would go with a 15 amp fuse to error on safe side. You can always step up if need be. All you are powering is the compressor itself. The thirdgen 25 powered compressor and blower. You may even step down the 25 heater and A/C fuse (in the fuse box) since you have now moved the compressor off that circuit.


The green 18 you will have to talk to the tuner about, but I don't see why it would be needed.


For the pressure switch I believe the Caddy pressure switch is a combination switch with both High and Low operating within the same switch. Iirc the thirdgens use a separate high and low sensors. I would run the Caddy switch because you would only need one switch instead of two, plus its already wired in and functioning.