http://ls1tech.com/forums/texas-memb...-lt1-back.html

Interesting...

Who is going to be the first to swap one of these into a thirdgen?

-- Joe

 

I've been set on the LS3 for a while, but when I saw that new corvette motor a while ago, I kinda wonder if I might opt for that instead. That engine should be in production by the time I get started on the project, so it may be in the equation. The direct injection should add a couple MPG's on it at least.

 

People are saying the new GM ECU will be 'impossible to tune'. Some say the aftermarket won't build an ECU to control the engine, but I can't see why a megasquirt with custom code and circuit add ons wouldn't be able to control it.


Yeah, the direct injection taking a cue from the diesel folks. Interesting!

Makes my LS2 look wimpy

-- Joe

 

I bet there would be an aftermarket ECU in relatively short order, or a way to re-flash it. Pumping out a motor that is specifically designed to be tamper-proof is a great way to kill a good chunk of your fan base. If it does end up being tamper-proof, count me out.


I often wonder why they didn't do it sooner.

 

Here's a link to some more of the facts and differences vs the current motor.

http://www.enginelabs.com/news/break...-block-reveal/

 

Tinbender59
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ok Bigg Gunz I smell what ur steppin in, you are letting the cat out of the bag now!!!

GM wants a piece of the aftermarket, and have gone to great lengths to ensure that they do get it, am I wrong?

P.S. fellas the original LT1 is a fantastic piece of engineering, even though the OPTI-NO-SPARK was it's weakness. dump that crap, then rock on!!


read the latest posts

 

They're taking a page from the Mopar book... the new gen 3.6, 5.7 and 6.4s have been un-tuneable for about a year. Evidently that is supposed to change at SEMA with a couple companies releasing tuners for them.

 

On the picture of the cutaway, I don't see how the variable valve timing works. The cam is in the block so does that mean the control is going to be in the chain?

 

it will just make the rest ofthe LSx even cheaper win/win

VVT is controlled by oil pressure I believe (not wording it right).

Someone willcrack the electronics to tune those.
Perfectly happy with a non VVT cam setup and a carb

 

Why would you ever NOT want VVT? The advantages of it far outweigh its disadvantages.

This is just a single cam phaser folds, nothing new or ground breaking here. The effects the cam advance have on an engine are well documented. They haven't released the specs of the phasing yet, but the phaser in my 3.9L V6 allows the cam to be advanced or retarded up to 30*. Makes a huge difference on low end grunt and top end power.

Not as much as a independent VVT system. Or Fiat's Multi-Air tech which not only offers variable advance, but variable duration, and lift as well. Short of solenoid operated valves VVT is the future, and I wouldn't be doing anything to stifle it.

 

"There will be no further development of the LS engines".

The LS had a great run, but I welcome the new direct injection technology! I sure hope the computer can be cracked, I can see these new engines making some ridiculous HP and TQ in the years to come. Imagine a 14:1 pump gas engine...wow. Plus, with direct injection you don't have all that pesky fuel in the intake tract taking up valuable space for more air.

 

I just want it to make LS1's cheap. Then I can actually afford the swap.

 

No, you just have to watch for carbon deposits on the intake valves. The technology is great, but there are some longevity issues with it still. Volkswagen got hit with them pretty hard if I remember right. The GM 3.6L engines reported much less build-up. It kinda looks like their injector sprays fuel onto the valves for a bit in that video which might reduce the buildup. But eventually it'll still be a problem.

 

I hardly see this as the swan song for the LS platform. It will take a number of years before the Gen V gets affordable aftermarket support, and even then it will only happen if the new platform proves to be a mod-friendly platform. If these injectors are capable of delivering the fuel required for high horsepower, or if higher flow injectors are affordable, and if there is an affordable ECM solution, then these motors will be popular with hotrodders. If they are prohibitively expensive or difficult to mod, the aftermarket won't embrace it.

Fortunately, unlike the Gen II SBC, which only stuck around for a few years, and never had the production numbers due to not being in the truck platform, there are millions of LS motors out there, so the aftermarket will continue to grow.

 

Kinda lucky then that the LT1's heads and intake can be ported to meet most people's wants. Most don't buy heads, they just port the stockers.

 

Just need to know how long till I can slap a carb on one...lol.

Wonder how long it will be before the LS line is dropped? 16 years of production, I figured we would see at least 20.

 

The government doesn't want people modifying cars. GM has been fighting the 'right to repair' bills for years now. The replacement for OBD-II requires even higher strength anti-tampering, and encryption in the ECU.

This is the future.

-- Joe

 

to all you guys wanting to throw a carb on one, the main advantage of this new generation motor is the direct injection. swapping one to carb would be retarded

 

Im curious to see if the block is physically the same dimensions as the ls series for mounts or tranny setup.from the pics of the engine cutaway I think its pretty close.While di and the newer vvt is cool..still not overly impressed with the lt.Had it been vvt,di and dohc 6.2l i think it would of had heart breaking power torque and with dod fuel economy would be pretty good.Ill stick to gen 3/4 for now and wait till the new lt series has been advanced or gen6 lol.

 

Is ls1tech going to have to change it's domain name to LT1tech? We're in for another 10 years. This means LS1s will finally come down in price .

 

I think if anything it'lm make the ls market stronger. the new LT1 will be the "in" swap and the lsx will be like the lt1 is now only cheaper because theyre everywhere. Of course these motors will never see the big numbers like the lsx does, too complex with vvt and expensive with the DI injectors. I dont think anyone can make one too support 1000 hp with the pressure they run at.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=4DGmnrbyaVg#! with boast they can get 1000 hp.

 

lol i was talking about making direct injection injectors to support 1000 hp on the new lt1, as they are very expensive to produce due to the crazy pressure they run at.

 

Impossible to tune ? Haha, that will be someones weekend hobby fun.

And as already posted aftermarket ecu's will quickly and easily be hooked up. theres only so many ways you can come up with a cam and crank signal, and even if you come up with something nobody else has, putting things on that are already in use wont be very hard.

 

Huh the only thing i can think of is your talking about the ecu not being tunable? which will be cracked with days of release. Even then the motor could support boost well over 1000hp.

 

The direct injectors that it uses (the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder, not pre intake valve) use a very high rail pressure, he's saying they may not make upgrades large enough for it. I'm sure they'll get made.

 

Id imagine that a company like FAST will start making an intake for it,possibly new rail to support aftermarket injectors..sometype of conversion harness..who knows.I wonder how much efficiency was gained from switching intake/exhaust valves around? I can see new aftermarket ls heads and cams being made by someone atleast with that built in lol.It would be as useless as having the gen1 sbc with aftermarket heads to put an ls1/6 intake ontop imo.

 

Sorry then, i was wrong. i'm sure them boys will be made aftermarket however. cheers.

 

I doubt the motor would hold upto 1000hp before it grenades.Not stock anyway..forged crank..800fhp I can see..but those pistons/rods and at that high compression nope.This does not look like a high boost friendly block without some serious mods/tuning to support it.

 

1000hp matters to less the one out of ten people, as long as them Vette boys like it, it will make it to the Camaro/=Firebird. Crosses fingers.

 

This motor kind of seems like a step backwards in regards to all the things we care about, although not all of it is GM's fault.

direct injection isnt all that useful to us, we can already do variable camshaft timing on Gen IV engines, switching the intake/exhaust valves around probably doesnt do much, and this locked up pcm business really irks me.

Will probably cement the LS family of engines as the hot rodder engines of choice for the next several decades.

 

Well if true so much for being subtle, there goes the price cut.

 

GM isnt stupid...they have seen how much the ls motors were embraced for hotrodding.Id say 3-4yrs of production will be a crate e-rod lt1 engine to buy with a standalone ecu.6 months in Im sure there will be vids with C7 vettes being cammed with exhaust having stage 1-3 by someone like LMR.Remember they only said the ecu codes would be hard to add power adders.Only a matter of time when HP tuners and the like will have an answer to that.One thing I do know from computer programming..is they can always be hacked in the right hands.

The lt1 will help bring ls stuff down a notch in price once aftermaket gets onboard.Imagine gen4 guys wanting to swap their ls3 heads for lt1 heads for the direct port and using/making a sheet metal intake and slapping a tb on it.Ls3 heads will become common on our forums lol

 

I have faith in this LT1 beast, imo give it 5 years and it will be the motor to have just like the LS was.

 

Im looking at the the gen v the same way we did when we had tpi guys swapping over lt1 topends. Looks like the ls and new lt share the same bolt bosses in the block for mount configurations including ls t56 bellhousing.Its not the end of the ls series..it will be the end of the gen 1 sbc aftermarket crowd as the ls will goes down in price.

 

Agreed.

 

The main advantage of a carb is cheap and easy to use/install. This retard has 5 cars on the road with carb setups to 1 EFI car. (not quite, but you get the idea) Will I carb one o these new engines? Under 2 conditions:

1: There is a gen V readily available with no junk DOD.

2: There is a carbed intake available with a "plug" kit to block the injector holes.

There for keeping the carbed hot ridding alive. We have our advantages. And I don't carb EVERYTHING, but the toys....yea.

 

Carb is great When it goes live and **** starts to pop up in the JY, this isn't just another 5.7, 5.3 it's the real deal 6.2l.

 

Because you end up with grimy intake valves .

 

I don't think they were talking about direct replacement of putting this engine in an older car.

Have you ever owned a newer Corvette? I have. In fact, Corvettes are my thing. I work on vettes more than my own car

The communication between the body control module, the ecu is important. If you wanted to remove the factory ECU and BCM, and re-wire all your accessory components, add analog gauges, etc than it's one thing.

I think the point the guy was trying to make was, it would be impossible to take a brand new Corvette with this new ECU and tune it.

I have no doubt that, once someone figures out the sensors and controllers that adapting a megasquirt to this thing would be fairly straight forward, you just won't be doing it in a 2016 ybody.


-- Joe

 

Direct rail injection is post valve.

-- Joe

 

one thing i would say is those injectors are probably going to be expensive as a **** if they are anything like the diesel ones. the diesel guys blow 4-5 grand on a set of oversize injectors for a duramax.
however i could imagine a single plane intake with an extra set of standard injectors in the runners to run along with the stock direct injection units.

 

It is hard to believe it has been that long already! 1997-2013 is indeed 16 yrs!

 

Just because this ends up in the vettte, how long till it dominates all the v8 platforms? Hurts mah feelins...

 

That's not a popular "book" with the Mopar crowd either let me tell ya....to intentionally encrypt the PCM and lock the tuner crowd out ain't cool at all, and unfortunately they've lost some followers because of it. I only know since I own one of those encrypted PCM cars...but I'm not a tuner so I'm plenty impressed enough with the power the car has.

All the automatics have MDS (mullti-displacement) - and I've heard the LT1 will have the same. With the new CAFE standards entering the scene, I'm afraid we're seeing the last gasp for the V-8's from the big 3.

As the new strict gas milage standards unfold, I believe the V-8...at least as we know it might be dropped all together, and the hot rod crowd will start buying up all the LSX's and other V-8's form the JY's within the next 5 years...watch the price of those slightly used modern V-8's skyrocket....

 

Didn't those exact words get written in the seventies?

 

True....but they weren't required to get 40+ MPG out of them back then either...but there were some real powerhouse V-8's during that era...like the 145 HP 350's and the neck-snapping 190 HP Caddy 500's...

 

I get what you're saying, my only point is things change. At that time 25 mpg from a v8 seemed impossible yet my 94 LT1 wagon gets that. The future is hard to predict.

 

The first line in my post was referencing exactly that.

It wont be very long till its been hacked, you have to keep in mind that at this point there are just as many people if not more working on reverse engineering things like that for solely the purpose of being able to tune it and make it work as there are trying to prevent it.

As well as plenty of people who can design and produce interfaces that will be available to make an aftermarket ECU plug in and function just the same as the OE pcm.

 

Thats what i was trying to get at, buying a new set of di injectors will be insanely expensive and the prices for really big ones like the diesel ones are. sure it will come down eventually but I cant see too many people spending 700 dollars per injector anytime soon, especially when you consider the ls3 makes damn near the same power and economy for a and you can get all eight injectors for the price of one direct port injector. Or if your like zone89rs you just buy a holley for 350 dollars. Its not looking good for hotroddding the lt1 or for ls prices right now.