Sorry to hear the bad luck. Just keep plugging away and remember to just take a step back from time to time, it won't happen over night.

Just out of curiosity where did you get that intake? I'm looking into making mine but I can't find a single person who can bend that big of pipe around here. I guess I'm just looking for a easy way on that haha .
other than that it's looking good!

 

I'm not upset or mad about the situation, surprisingly enough. I'm just shaking my head in chagrin at myself because ALL of this could have been avoided. lol I'm not really trying to rush this now, as I HAVE driven the car at least... but, I do need to get it done by the weekend because I set my *3rd* dyno appt up on the 3rd of July (off that day.. woo!). I'll have it done, but it'll just be a giant pain in my rear lol.

As for the intake, I actually repurposed a Tahoe/Silverado intake setup off of ebay. It was supposed to go to the passenger side, but I just flipped it around. I wanted a black with red filter, and lots of searching did it. lol. Not the GREATEST quality paint job, but they included damn near everything needed. I did, however, have to add an additional clamp as it was short one. And it's an actual K&N filter.

*** link only for reference *** http://www.ebay.com/itm/110976310593?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

Wow, I think I'm going to buy that right now! Was looking for pretty much that price and having to paint and cut. Thanks for the info.

 

It's not the greatest in quality, but it's certainly not bad. Just have to fiddle with the angles a little bit. Most importantly, it's quite functional.

 

That's really all I'm looking for. At the moment all I have to cut 4 in pipe is a cutoff wheel. So they're not that great.
I'm not looking for super car show quality. Just something that'll work.

 

No cutting necessary with this! As I said, just had to angle things properly. I have it going to the driver side battery tray and it fits well. It's got support brackets welded to the tube, but I've got them angled down and out of the way for now. Debating cutting them off, as I don't need them obviously.

No flow issues, no MAF codes, very little issue with the upper radiator hose. For a complete set + filter, I'm satisfied with it.

 

Alright, before I get too far in on destroying these knock sensors and going crazy over this, besides needing new knock sensor oil seals, is there any adverse damage that can be caused by me prying up the valley cover while they sensors are still in? I just want to make sure before I could break something that isn't easily replaceable (not referring to the cover... it's only another $80).

 

Hahahaha!

It's done! Took little effort to yank the valley cover off, then a set of lockjaw pliers loosened both sensors for me to use my fingers.

And.... I fished out the lifter! It had actually landed in the windage tray between the crank weights. So, I rotated the crank enough to where there was a relatively clear path with just some rod caps in the way. Then, I fished it out slowly with 2 magnets through the front! Took some time, and had to unbolt the sway bar, and took some bending and maneuvering but the SOB is out! Now, I can start the reassembly without having to drop the block!

Whew!

 

Great news! Looks like your luck is changing!

 

Let's hope! I want to drive more than 28 miles lol. I still have so much I need to do and really haven't done much at all this week. With the daughter home from the hospital, and events damn near every night, this weekend is going to be a whirlwind of car activity!

 

Well, I'm done for a little while...

Spent 8 hours on Saturday getting everything bolted back together. Found out that ANOTHER lifter had fallen in and was stuck in the windage tray. Fished that out before getting started. After spending all day, double checking everything, and a ton of water (it was HOT)... my buddy and I rolled it out of the garage.

And.... turned the key, fired right up... jumped up to about 3k immediately (throttle was stuck slightly open).... all of a sudden, huge rattling started happening, I rush to kill it and before I could, it blew a hole in the side of the oil pan. I was so dejected I pushed it back into the garage, threw cat litter on the huge oil stain on the driveway, and went and got somewhat drunk.

Threw a rod at least.. or something came apart. I need a few days before I subject myself to the tear down. Again. Obviously, I'm not going to go with worst case scenario until I can pull it out and apart, but with the way it happened I'm thinking I'm going to need an all new rotating assembly at the least.

Sigh.

 

Well, that didn't last long.

Going to get another LR4 on Friday. Found a good deal on one with 89k miles on it with front accessories and intake for $500 and the guy is offering my money back if it isn't in running condition (it will be in writing). Only issue I have is it's a 2000, and not an 04 like I want, but I can live with it. Just means I'll be upgrading the rods and pistons before I turbo.

 

Well. Found the problem.

Cylinder 7


Or, at least one of the problems.




Exhaust valve is gone... obviously. Piston is gone. Rod is gone. Shockingly, the cylinder wall held. Rod end and cap are still attached to the crank, and what I find extremely funny is that it still spins freely! lol

Top piece is from this engine. At the moment, the largest piece of the piston. Bottom piece was from a .040 350 that was in my 79 Camaro when I bought it. THAT engine blew at only 2k rpm and I had nothing to do with it except put an Edelbrock carb on it.


Now, here's the part that frightens me... this is the passenger side head. That is #8. It has the oil ring from #7 embedded into the head... and the other cylinders have a lot of metal in them too. #2 was starting to get destroyed, and a few of the others had marks. The intake had lots of little bits of metal in it, the brand new lifters had some metal on them, and the trays did as well... which means that I have a lot of disassembly and cleaning to do. I can't see the cam very well in the car but I hope it survived unscathed, though I don't have very much hope for that.


I have several suspicions about what happened. 3 possibilities come to mind, but the mind-boggling thing here is that it ran for MAYBE 30 seconds. Maybe. And 5 of those was after it blew a hole out of the oil pan before I could shut it off. It kept running. I checked all the valves when I had pulled the heads before to replace the lifters and all were good. I checked the movement of the pistons as well. Everything seemed fine.

 

Sounds like you dropped a valve which got chewed up and weakened the piston. As the piston came apart the rod eventually got jammed and snapped off. The excess rod went through your pan. You didnt have oil problems or the bearings would be wasted preventing a smooth turn of the crank

Finding excess pieces all over the engine isnt uncommon. As the dead cyl is crewing up bit, the intake valve is still opening/closing on time. Nothing to prevent bit from fling back up in the intake only to be sucked into the other cyls, even ones not close to the dead cyl. If you shake the intake Id bet money itd rattle. Pieces scattered across the inside of the engine is to be expected. Bits being ground up created a chaotic environment and any place in the engine is subject to hold the bits. I lost #7 as well when a ring butted but it blew the bottom off the piston. I found bits in the valley, behind the rear cover, in the timing cover, even at the base of the valve springs

 

Out of the 3, that's the most likely scenario... Yet another live and learn moment.

Surprisingly, it doesn't rattle a whole lot. I just found metal bits stuck to oil near the TB. Going to have to take it apart to blast it clean I'm guessing, although I haven't done that before so yay for learning new things (again).

Only things I'm reusing for sure from this hunk of metal will be the cam (if it's still good), lifters, springs, possibly rear cover, front cover, oil pump (after I take it apart to make sure it's clean) valley cover, valve covers, sensors, and timing chain. Everything is getting thoroughly cleaned and taken apart if possible.

I dropped off the set of 241's on I had picked up on Friday at a guy who specializes in doing head work. Works out of his side garage, so his overhead is low and his prices are low as well. $600 for port and polish, valve job, flow testing, and assembly. I've seen his work, and it's definitely not a shoddy job. Brand new Manley Race Series intake and exhaust valves, he's going to shim the springs to proper pressure, and make sure everything is good. Should have them in about 2-3 weeks, which gives me time to get the old motor out, on another stand, and start taking apart the other one.

As expected on the new engine, the coolant passages are ugly but oil came out clean. I haven't decided how far I want to take this block considering $$$ is now an issue, and time. It really depends on what I find as I tear it down. If the cylinder walls look good, the bearings don't show excessive wear, and everything looks okay, I'm debating just assembling as is and dropping it in the car. But, I don't want to screw myself over again down the road so I'm having a hard time deciding.

 

Ive had good luck just dropping them in with a new oil pump. LSx engines arent like old SBCs that are needing an overhaul over 100k

 

Ah, but I'm changing a lot of parts with performance in mind. Cam, springs, lifters, pump, etc etc. Hence, my hesitation.

If I was just leaving it stock, I would definitely just change the pump and go. Again, all this hedges on how everything looks when I dig into it. We'll see.

 

When you pull the old cam out of the new engine, check it over real close. If its lobes still look new, Id stick the aftermarket cam right in there

Valve springs need to swap to match the cam, thats a given. Valve seals are a good idea since you're in there and they're cheap. Pushrods since its a LS motor, stockers bend so easy

Oil pump is GP for anytime an engine is out of the car

 

Yessir. All were new on the now defunct motor.

241 heads are getting new everything. Valve seals, valves, the PSI springs that I put on the 862's.

Moving the Trick Flow push rods over, the Melling HVHP pump, etc. Going to double check the push rod length with the LS7 lifters... I hope I don't have to get new ones, but I'm half expecting that the length required will change lol.

 

Regrinding the cam will likely require longer PRs. Since you had a valvetrain failure, check straightness. Roll them one by one down a pane of glass and listen for wobbles

Valves should be fine with a good cleaning/visual check

 

Thankfully, no regrinding as of yet. It was just polished up before.

 

Sorry to see all the crappy luck you've been having with this swap so far. I'm doing the same swap and have become nervous about whether or not my engine will have the same fate as yours.

Do you have any things that I should look out for before finally putting the engine together? I rebuilt the lower end, aside from new main bearings. I also got new LS7 lifters, trays, valve springs, pushrods, etc.

You've been doing great work so far and I hope to see your luck finally turn around.

 

Thanks! It sucks, but no point in getting upset or mad about it after the fact. I was pretty upset when it happened, but now I find it humorous.

Don't be nervous. It's a rare thing, and I just seem to create the unusual and rare instances. lol

My advice:

1. If you aren't positive of the condition your block is, take it to a shop. Have it vatted, magnafluxed, cleaned etc. Pull those galley plugs! It's a rare, rare occurrence when a pulled LS block isn't sound, but might as well be sure.

2. Rings, and ring lands. I cleaned all of the pistons myself, soaking them all in mineral spirits and using a broken off ring to clean the carbon from the lands. If you aren't comfortable with doing that, or confident the machine shop will do it right, then the only recourse is to get new ones... or get comfortable with it. Also, at bare minimum, have a quick hone of the cylinders done if you are just replacing the rings. Need to get them to seat properly. Oh! And make sure all of the rings are oriented properly! Last engine I took apart that I got from someone else had all the damn gaps lined up evenly!

3. Base your valvetrain upgrades around your cam. If you aren't going with aftermarket rockers, at least upgrade the stock trunions with Comp's trunion kit. Worth the $100 for that piece of mind, and it's not hard if you have access to a press. Also, hardened pushrods are a must.

4. Break-in is important... at least for the cam. Everyone has an opinion about engine break-in, ring seating etc. etc. I'm of the opinion to drive it like you mean to drive it.

Only other thing, and this is probably what got me, but make sure all of the valves are good and seat fully and properly. I checked it all, but not well enough it seems and because of my failure I paid the price. It's not much to get a machine shop to pressure test each cylinder. Might have them do it.

 

Thanks for the advice! The block I got was from a friend that had sub 100K miles on it. Only reason he replaced it was because he had a lifter tick and could swap the engine for cheap.

I cleaned the ring lands out properly by soaking them in a parts washer for awhile and using a big wire wheel at my shop, so those are good. I also oriented all the gaps between each ring correctly.

The cam I put in is mildly aggressive. It's a GM ASA grind from Howard Cam's. So it could go into a stock LS1 just fine, but I did upgrade to LS6 valve springs. The rockers are completely stock though. I didn't feel like they would need to be changed with the lift of the cam (.525). Also got Chromoly pushrods from Comp Cams.

I redid the valve seats on the heads as well as the valves and when I would spray throttle body cleaner into the ports nothing leaked out, so I assume that they are pretty tight and sealed.

I will research the break-in for this engine more though since I'm not familiar with roller cam engines yet.

Thanks for the help and checklist, lol. Hopefully I'll be able to start it up soon and tell you the results.

 

Upgrading the trunions isn't necessarily for the lift of the cam. It's for the higher RPM range, and also the stock trunions are garbage. Uncaged needle bearings that are known for falling apart and getting stuck in all the wonderfully small oil passages. The upgrade kit includes caged needle bearings, strong, lighter trunions, and piece of mind.

Excellent! Then you did better than me lol.

Really, the cam break-in isn't as intensive for rollers as it is for hydraulic or flat tappet. I used Royal Purple break-in oil, then around 20 minutes of idle with maybe 2-3 minutes of around 2.5k rpm. Shut it off, change the oil immediately, let it cool, then start it again and let idle until it gets to temp. Then drive it! My method was going to be 50 miles/oil change. 100 miles/oil change. Then move on to higher mileage.

 

Yeah, I've been reading that about a roller cam. Some people said to use 5W-30 and do the 30 minutes of varying RPM and other things, so I'll try that and do an oil change after 30-45 minutes.

I may just go with a new rocker arm design all together since I don't have access to a press now and would prefer to get a roller tip if I put any money into the rockers.

I also have to do the break-in soon since I need to drive the car 1000 miles in three weeks.

 

I'd really recommend going with at least 1 set of RP's break-in. Zinc and all that aren't as prominent with the break-in with the roller cams, but it will really help with the ring and cylinder wall break-in as well.

From my research, the stock rockers are more than adequate. Most aftermarket rockers weigh a lot more, and with a simple $100 kit, and an hour of labor at a shop with a press would more than cover your needs. My opinion. Hell, if you were closer I'd tell you to bring them by the house lol. Have a co-worker bringing his tonight for me to do.

 

Engine is out of the car. Kept dragging my feet because I didn't want to undo everything again, but really it only took me about 2.5 hours to get it out yesterday. I already had the intake, heads, headers, P/S off which helped.

Forgot to get bolts to hold it to the extra stand I bought, so it's just hanging in the garage. Took all the clutch goodies off, and decided to take the rear cover off while I was at it. Boy, did I have a good laugh.



Look at the main cap on the bottom left and right of the picture.. you'll see plenty of metal trash just sitting there on the main cap ears. lol

Now, a pic of the gash in the oil pan!



So much mangled metal! Epic failure just doesn't seem good enough to describe it.

Putting it on the stand tonight, and disassembly starts this week. Going to have a pretty clear idea of how I'm going to proceed by this weekend, with the ultimate goal of having this damn thing running and driving again within the next 2.5 weeks, at the latest!

 

Well, even more change of plans. Never easy. lol

The set of 241's I picked up fairly cheap are not usable right now. 1 of them has a header bolt broken off in it, but more than that it has a broken piece of an extractor in it. Machine shop couldn't drill it out. Only solution would be to cut the whole thing out, weld it all back up and drill and tap it. So, not going that route.

The guy doing the work has offered to take the 862's that are on my new engine, and for the same price he quoted me, do the port & polish, and cut the intake valve seats for the 2.00" valves. So, going back to that route again.

Anyone want a set of 241's that need a little work? hahaha

 

Tell the shop to buy a carbide drill.

 

I asked them what they used and they did say carbide. Apparently, all it did was spit sparks. Either way, I'll get them fixed later on and just use the 862's.

 

Welp.. looks like I'm starting all over again. Pulled the heads off the new motor and it has to go to the machine shop. Water jacket and coolant passages are all clogged with a mixture of solidified coolant/rust. Headgaskets were completely blocked, and the heads are pretty nasty. No way in hell I'm going to run it like it is... that's just asking for a clogged/blocked water pump or radiator. Damn!

 

Sorry to hear that, hopefully when it comes back together this time it'll be much better

My old 305 was like that and it was horrible.

 

Hopefully! I'm very hesitant about it to be honest. Since I can't find any discernible cause for the initial failure, it could be any number of things. 1 possibility would be a damaged ring land that caused it to overheat and then maybe busted things up.

Which would mean cleaning the old pistons could possibly cause a similar failure.. unlikely, but not improbable. And new pistons, rods, and wrist pins are not cheap.

Honestly, it looks like dex-cool that sat for a while, and then they mixed green with it and the results are less than pretty. It took digging with a pick to break it up enough to look down into the water jackets and it was clumped up everywhere. Very nasty.

 

I was thinking that somebody had mixed dex cool and green stuff when you said there was build up in the passages.

Another thing, it could have been the wrist pins that messed up the engine. The shop I worked at, the owner built pro mod engines and said that the pistons and rods are designed bery well, but he would replace the wrist pin setup before anything else. I also knew somebody else that destroyed their engine because of the wrist pins failing.

 

I haven't pulled the other one's pan off yet, but I can see the pin through the bottom of the cylinder. Didn't look damaged, but I'll know for sure when the pan comes off.

 

It doesn't have to be damaged, one of the clips that holds them in could have snapped.

I decided to trailer my car up to Ohio since I didn't want to have any problems on the drive up. Probably better in the long run than potentially messing up my engine

 

This is true.. but, it's all speculation at this point. I doubt I'll ever get a definitive answer.

 

Heads dropped off Friday... should be done by the end of this week, early next week.

Block and crank dropped off early Saturday morning. After agonizing over what to do, I finally decided I'll just continue with the restart and go new bearings and rings. Out of all the rod and main bearings, only 1 rod and 1 main bearing set needed replacing. All the rest look amazingly great. The crank looked pretty good as well. But, might as well do it the right way. I've already got another set of rings, minus 1 oil retainer ring, and a set of .020/.020 main/rod bearings. I'm unsure if I want to grind the crank that much though...

 

Why not? Stock cranks are really thick and can handle +1000hp of abuse. .020 is less than your fingernails thickness. You arent compromising much if any. FWIW, I ran a .030/.030 crank in my last build at 625rwhp

You're also starting with a truck crank which isnt gun drilled along it mains so its even stronger

 

Yeah. After thinking about it a bit, it's really not that much. Instructed them at lunch to do it yesterday to grind the crank. Should still be done by Wednesday. They are going to get it right in the middle of the acceptable clearance for me so that I won't be on the high end again and I can get my pressure where I want it.

Now, my only concern is the stock pistons. I don't have the cash to buy a new set... especially not at the crazy prices people have them at... I suppose I'll have to clean them again, although I plan on a slightly different approach.

 

As much as forged would be better, I'll make these pistons work. However, changing my approach. Chem-dip, easy-off, and a ring-land cleaning tool will take care of the piston cleaning... and I'm going to do the ring gaps different this time around after doing more research. Even though it won't be boosted until next year, I figure I'll put the rings where I want them now and forgo having to pull it apart later (assuming I get past the initial break-in period this time).

 

Well, got the block and crank back... aaand the block is going right back to the shop.

Their cleaning work was well done, cam bearings actually look installed correctly (other shop gouged them), and the crank journals look great. However, their honework leaves much to be desired. Most of the cylinders look good, but #'s 1 and 2 have rust spots/rough patches that they didn't address... and I sure as hell am not putting a new ring set in them. They went over them, and there's hone marks but they didn't clean it out.

Plus side, I got the ring-land cleaning tool in, as well as the ring grinder. Also, even though I only needed 1 retainer ring and would have gladly paid for it, the company I bought the ring set from sent me a complete set for free.

 

Yet another update:

Dropped the block back off. The front counter guy was shocked (or so he said) that no one said anything about the rust spots. After further inspection, we came to the conclusion it needs to be sleeved. So, they are resleeving both #'s 1 and 2. The rest look good. I expect some compensation for the fact that the multiple trips could have been avoided if they had done their job 100%, instead of 97%.

Either way, cleaning of the pistons commences tonight and I should hopefully have a short block by Sunday/Monday.

 

So, are you getting all the work done to the new LR4 block or salvaging your old one?

What are the differences in rotating assemblies between the pre-2004 and post-2004 4.8's? I thought I had a pre-04' engine at first, but the head bolts are all the same length which told me it was post-2004.

 

All work is on the new block. I haven't even taken my old one fully apart yet. I actually need to continue to disassemble it so I can find out if the cam is salvageable...

As for the differences, I believe it's pistons and rods. Crank should be the same. Honestly though, after working on these pistons as opposed to the 04 block, I see no differences. Both are floating pins, both are broken caps, and look identical.

Whoever they have doing their resleeving definitely knows his business... can't even tell it was resleeved! Picked it up Saturday morning, got it home and on a stand and wrapped up in plastic. Got all the pistons cleaned up.. much better process this time.

First, soaked them in chem-dip for a few minutes each, then took the ring land cleaning tool from Lisle and scraped the ring lands... did a pretty damn good job, honestly. Minimal metal loss. Hosed it down, then sprayed Easy Off on every surface and let it sit while I worked on the next piston. Washed everything off, gave it a quick round on the brass wire wheel on my bench grinder, then finished with a coating of wd-40. All of the pistons came out pretty great.









And the results:







Didn't get as far along as I wanted this weekend... fixing family cars out in the heat saps one's energy far too quickly. But, I've decided NOT to rush the build any longer.. I want my car back, and I REALLY want to drive it... but not at the expense of possibly missing something and having another failure. Besides, I still need to touch up paint in the engine bay, and a lot of little things. And I don't have the heads back yet. lol

 

Aaaaaaand my build just came to a screeching, ear-splitting, horrible halt. Pulled the cam out last night.. and I have myself a VERY expensive paperweight. It is not salvageable in the slightest... and I don't have the funds available now to buy another, nor will I have it for the next month or 2 unless something crazy happens.









That gouge is very deep.. no way it can be fixed.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen... we are back in business!

After being irritated with the cam problem, and realizing that I can't afford to replace it out of my normal check due to medical bills this month, I set my mind to alternative methods of raising funds. I initially was about to pick up side jobs, and I still might... but, a rare opportunity presented itself.

The pan that I got with the replacement LR4 was a corvette pan. The guy couldn't find the original, and didn't want to send me off without a pan (which I completely agreed with and insisted on having). So, he offered to let me take his C5 pan. I didn't think anything of it, as I got the engine home, took the pan off and set it aside.

Fast forward to today, and a friend of mine asked me about it. A buddy of his just bought an 02 Z06 yesterday, and had a rock go through the bottom of the pan today. I went and looked at my pan, and lo and behold it's an 02-04 Z06 pan, which go for $800 new! Holy S%^&! Met the guy at lunch, he gave me $500 and called it a day! Essentially, I got my engine for free! Hot damn!

So, new cam will be ordered tomorrow. I pick up the heads Saturday morning, and now I've got my work cut out for me! Not going to rush, but moving at a steady pace should have things where I want them in no time! I need to get the ring gaps set, get the rotating assembly in the motor and bolted up, then once the cam comes in and other LS9 headgasket, I've got to do the adjustable push rod test so I can see if I need to change my push rods.

 

While I wait on the cam and my tools to be returned to me, a few carnage pics, as well as some numbers on the heads.

Took the oil pan off as I needed to remove my oil pump. Here's what I found.


Removed the tray at the bottom of the pan... only 3 bolts held it on.. rest were ripped out.


That hole isn't supposed to be there. lol


Windage tray. Yeah, that's not stock.




Wrist pin.


No sign of the valve.

 

And now numbers. Forgot to take pics of the heads, so I'll do that tonight, but this guy did a superb job! Flow-tested, leak checked, put 2" intake valves in, shimmed my springs for boost, and made me one happy customer. $600 well spent!

The numbers:

Stock numbers


And after P&P


The difference between the 2 at .500 and .600 is amazing. And, with my cam at .571/.573 lift, it's going to be a huge increase I think.

Other than that, I gapped the rings the way I want them; decided to go ahead and put them at 0.026 top ring, and 0.028 2nd ring. Shouldn't hurt it that much now, and it makes it ready for boost next year without me having to redo them. Also, checked the main bearing clearance and it's exactly where it should be now. This second machine shop I used was way better... in price, in following instructions, and in timeliness. Not to mention their block prep includes a lot more, and is a whole lot better. Bearing clearance is at .0026.