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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
I wanted to start a new thread on these, I did a quick search but didn't come up with a whole lot of recent or solid information. Being that they are a much more agreeable priced item, I figure we should discuss the recent versions.
I called Racing Innovation today and ordered a set of the 3rd gen LS1 swap headers. They will be getting stock in next week to send out. At the price point they seem like a solid bet on a budget, I've been unwilling to spend more on my headers than the entire engine build cost me.
Does anyone have a set purchased recently they can give info about?
-How was fitament?
-What is the actual primary size? Older information states they were listed as and measured as 1 5/8"
-Is there a pre-made Y pipe that will fit these?
-The previous versions were said to be a copy/knock off of the Hawk's Budget headers. Did we ever determine where these are made or who makes them?
Once I receive these I will take measurements and pictures to post up as a review.
Perfect, all good to hear. It really is about time we get a competitively price long tube for these cars. Sounds like they should let this motor breathe a lot easier than the stock manifolds. Thanks for the information!
Oh they will definitely be better than the manifolds... I believe a member named "86White_T/A305" ended up gaining 30 rear wheel HP over the factory manifolds with these headers in his cammed LQ4... mind you that was after a dyno tune though.
Definitely worth the money! I have noticed I need to find a solution on the number 3 primary. My plug wire rests on the header. But I was told a simple sleeve for the plug wire will work. Other than that no complaints. Solid quality with a solid price
That's what I've read, with this reverse split SLP cam, the car really needs a perfect exhaust set up to see full potential. A LS1 with the same cam gained 40RWHP going from shorties to LTs.
You get what you pay for but they aren't horrible. Not the nicest welds and the pass side is really close to the frame rail and my drivers points down. I say they're worth it but I kinda wish I had Hawks. I don't like how close it is to the pass frame rail. You can't beat the price though. Plug wires are tight like mentioned too.
Ill chime in a bit here.I did post in the thread mentioned above I gained over 20whp going from stock manifolds to the RI headers..which needed to be tuned as my car leaned out from the swap alone.I gained another 10whp from simply opening my 3' cutout which was placed after my 3' y pipe and highflow cat.
Quality wise they really arent bad except when you look inside the primaries and see the average welder globs of a weld.The diameter of the primaries inside did measure 1 5/8 not 3/4 though I wasnt overly concerned at this price for a perfect header.The pipes themselves seemed decent quality of stainless also and lasted through full canadian harsh salt winter. Id recommend them for sure for the average dyi ls swapper on here.Fitment isnt bad at all just takes some wiggle room and lift the car up quite a bit for the driverside.passenger side is a breeze to put on/off from the bottom.Im using granatelli plug wires which have 2 layers of heat shields so I didnt worry about them rest on the tubes at all.They didnt seem to really get as hot as the stock manifolds which retained soo much heat under the hood.
If the new headers are indeed 1 3/4 then grab them as quantities come around.It will only benefit you more for the price..just make sure you have a good flowing exhaust behind it.Im now selling mine locally due to the new turbo setup.I can easily go from turbo to n/a if I keep them in a few hrs in the driveway.
! tip for guys going from stock to longtubes..during the install..might be best to remove the spark plugs as it gets very close to hitting and cracking them while wiggling around if you are working alone.Ask me how I know lol.
All good advice, especially removing the plugs. Been there done that on the TPI motor with longtubes. Fitament I don't expect to be perfect, especially with the number of motor mount kits available that all seem to have a different mounting angle or offset. I may wind up changing mine as I don't like the angle or install that was done, but I will report how they fit once they come in.
These headers have the same outside diameter 1 3/4" as my SLP SS headers (generally tubing is measured as OD) so ID is not going to be 1 3/4". I did notice the tubing to be thinner gage than my SPL headers so that is probably why they are cheaper, but as has been said you get what you pay for. I may at some time decide to change mine to the Hawks headers if I find I don't like my Racing Innovations headers. For the money you can't really go wrong.
I'll add my .02. I just finished building a LS swap car for a friend who has the RI headers on it. They did fit fairly well, about the same as the Hawks headers did on mine. Here's a tip, pick up the MSD adjustable boot plug wires and you'll fix your primary tube clearance issue. https://www.summitracing.com/orders/...umber=04324905
I may go back on his car and install the plug wire heat sleeve deals.
As for the y-pipe, I built his from a bunch of mandrel bends and a Flowmaster y. The only real thing is that the collector ends right before the transmission shifter lever and cable. I ended up trimming a little off the collector and immediately having a slight turn down in order to clear the shifter lever. My car was the same way.
I may have missed a point or two, but I installed Hawks headers on my car last fall and these this spring. They are very comparable, like to the point that you'd be very hard pressed to tell the difference between the two.
Good idea on the plug wires, I need to replace those anyway. For exhaust I am planning to buy a 4" catback, so I'll likely have to build the y pipe to fit that. I have to have the exhaust go out the back, right now it has two dumped bullets under the floorboard. Enough drone to rattle the teeth out of your head.
On my car I have a 3.5" exhaust. I purchased the mufflex magnaflow kit and built my own y-pipe. For the y I used two 3" combination bends (a 180 and a 45 degree bend) and a flowmaster merge. Positioned the merge roughly where I wanted it and started measuring, cutting and welding until I got the first pipe from the collector to the merge, then I switched to the other collector. Repeat until I had both sides done and then placed my cutout at the end of the merge. It fits like it was meant to be there. The shift cable ended up rather close to the pipe, so I ended up going back and covering that in the heat sleeve as well.
The 3.5" exhaust barely fits the way it is, I imagine that a 4" may give you a little more grief.
I'm receiving my headers today. When I get home, I'll take and post some pictures.
My SSW headers I picked up off of another guy on the board should be delivered tomorrow. I wont be installing mine for a few weeks, if yours are gonna be off maybe we can meet up and take a few pics of the 2 side by side for good comparisons for people.... I know if I had a good side by side pic before I might have went the racing innovations route.
Here are some pics I took of the headers. I haven't tried to install them yet, I'm prepping the bay with some por-15 and getting the harness/AC installed. But for the price, they looks great, the collectors could use the most work. I think I can smooth them out a bit more with a grinder and live with it. The flange pictures are photos of the best port, and the worst port.:
Great pictures! I regret to inform everyone that I was in a hurry to get the car running, so I didn't take many at all. But, those above are perfect.
As for installation/fitment.... best freaking headers I've ever had the pleasure installing. From underneath the car, they went in like butter. No crazy angling, no twisting or having to push/pull. Straight in.
Fitment is perfect as well. No contact with either frame rail, collectors are a little funky though, but that's to be expected. Absolutely no issues with these and I'm glad I bought them!
Great pictures! I regret to inform everyone that I was in a hurry to get the car running, so I didn't take many at all. But, those above are perfect.
As for installation/fitment.... best freaking headers I've ever had the pleasure installing. From underneath the car, they went in like butter. No crazy angling, no twisting or having to push/pull. Straight in.
Fitment is perfect as well. No contact with either frame rail, collectors are a little funky though, but that's to be expected. Absolutely no issues with these and I'm glad I bought them!
For reference what motor mounts and trans mount are you using? I have a set that was welded to the stock K-member and a trans mount that was modded to mount the 4L60E on so I may not be as lucky as you.
When you look inside the primaries and see the average welder globs of a weld.
Grinding the globs isn't much different from porting heads.
Originally Posted by 86White_T/A305
The diameter of the primaries inside did measure 1 5/8 not 1 3/4.
As it should be. The advertised diameter of headers ALWAYS refers to the OD of the primary tubes.
Originally Posted by 86White_T/A305
If the new headers are indeed 1 3/4 then grab them as quantities come around.It will only benefit you more for the price.
Bigger isn't always better. Often it hurts, especially isn't as powerful as the owner believes. As mine is a 4.8, I'd prefer the 1.625" size. Average power always beats peak horsepower, and there most engines are generally better off with the next primary smaller than the one that makes peak HP.
For reference what motor mounts and trans mount are you using? I have a set that was welded to the stock K-member and a trans mount that was modded to mount the 4L60E on so I may not be as lucky as you.
For the motor mounts, they are similar to the Dirty Dingo adjustable mounts. A co-worker had them and gave them to me when mine weren't working.
As for the trans mount, it came with the T56 I bought/traded for. Looking around, it looks similar to a Spohn, and gave me issues like a Spohn... lol. Had to beat it into position with a hammer.
I installed a set of RI headers a few weeks ago and they fit fine. I did have to do a good bit of grinding on the driver side of the trans bellhousing to clear the header as it wouldnt let me bolt down all the way. That was kind of annoying. Headers look great on the outside but the inside of the collectors was horendous as pics show above. I got less than $300 in bends and a flowmaster dual 3" to 4" merge ypipe then a 4" catback with dual mufflers. I'm happy with them for $300. I need to now make a custom trans crossmember ugh.
I installed a set of RI headers a few weeks ago and they fit fine. I did have to do a good bit of grinding on the driver side of the trans bellhousing to clear the header as it wouldnt let me bolt down all the way. That was kind of annoying. Headers look great on the outside but the inside of the collectors was horendous as pics show above. I got less than $300 in bends and a flowmaster dual 3" to 4" merge ypipe then a 4" catback with dual mufflers. I'm happy with them for $300. I need to now make a custom trans crossmember ugh.
What catback did you go with? I have a 4th gen dynomax system on, it's LOUD and I love it, but the sound it makes on decel between 3000-2000 makes me not enjoy it so much... Once you get it running I would like to hear a sound clip.
What catback did you go with? I have a 4th gen dynomax system on, it's LOUD and I love it, but the sound it makes on decel between 3000-2000 makes me not enjoy it so much... Once you get it running I would like to hear a sound clip.
I bought like 4 bends and made my own cat back. For the cost I basically just made a 4" car back for like $200 with 2 mufflers in series. The ypipe cost me roughly $100 to fab. So like $300 for the whole thing from the headers back.
First muffler is going to be a hooker maximum flow and the next one is going to be a dynomax ultra flow. Total case is 30" with both so it should quiet it down a bit without hurting flow at all.
I didn't think dynomax made a 4" catback? Are you referring to a 3" dynomax catback for a 4th gen? I have a dynomax ultra flow catback 3" to dual 2.5" on my 2014 RAM Hemi and love it. Not that loud so you don't get the resonance/drone at highway speeds.
Yeah, it's the 3", I did a custom Y pipe to 3" merge. Stock manifolds, but I'll be getting a set of these... Not sure when as I hear I'll need to tune when they are installed.
My car sounds like Armageddon when I'm on it, and I honestly don't want to lose that, but the chugging/drone it makes when I'm coming off the throttle sounds horrible... Not sure what to do about it, really... I would sacrifice some volume for it.
I haven't installed them yet, I got side tracked by my 2002 Z and a 2002 WS6 I just bought. I ordered a TIG welder which is on its' way so I should get around to fixing the rust and doing the exhaust pretty soon. I'll be certain to post up part numbers and what I did to make it fit as well as what I use to fab a catback.
Does anyone know part numbers or what they used to fab up a Y pipe to go from these headers to a stock 4th gen style catback?
Some background: I bought the RI headers, Hawk's Y pipe, and I have the Hawk's motor mounts and double hump crossmember for the 4L60E.
Well I got the Racing innovation longtubes in and used Hawk's Y pipe. I will say the headers fit, but not well, I wouldn't but them again. It seems like the headers were warped after they welded them together, the collector flares out and up a bit more than I'd like and comes extremely close to the subframe on the passenger side, and nearly touches the brake line and fuel lines on the driver's side.
I insulated them with a heat sleeve and rearranged the brake line.
Hawk's Y pipe, also fit, but again, not well. I pulled the headers in so it would fit the Y pipe like it should and bolted everything down. I believe the Y pipe was built to fit T56 cars, not 4L60E cars, the Y pipe manages to hit everything, the subframe, the crossmember, and the trans pan. It also puts the merge uncomfortably close to the floorboard and torque arm/driveshaft. But again it works for now, I will have an exhaust shop tweak it some to work better.
I will likely buy some Speed Engineering headers in the future as I have heard they fit better, but for now what I have seems like it will work.
My Speed Engineering LS swap headers just showed up. Initial impressions blow the RI headers out of the water. The primaries look much larger, and the collectors as well as the flange look much smoother than the RI headers. I also see they have a merge spike which RI does not. I'll post more after installing them.
Speed Engineering merge spike
Speed Engineering flange
Speed Engineering diameter looks a good deal larger than the RI headers
I just put them on, it's 2am here so it's a little late to run it, but the quality and fit is amazing on the Speed Engineering headers. They leave TONS of room around the fuel and brake lines, O2s are hard to get to but fit and clear everything. I got them in with the headers bolted to the heads easily enough. I always used Speed Engineering on my 4th gens, I'm glad they gave the 3rd gen some love because they knocked it out of the park.
I just put them on, it's 2am here so it's a little late to run it, but the quality and fit is amazing on the Speed Engineering headers. They leave TONS of room around the fuel and brake lines, O2s are hard to get to but fit and clear everything. I got them in with the headers bolted to the heads easily enough. I always used Speed Engineering on my 4th gens, I'm glad they gave the 3rd gen some love because they knocked it out of the park.
i'm running a tko 600 i have plenty of room for the o2's and easy to get to.
05-30-2015, 12:09 AM
