Hey everyone, just had a few questions regarding cams. I have been doing a little research and looking for a decent cam to swap into my 5.7 LS1 build. I understand the stock cam is somewhere around .500 lift on both sides, so I was looking at a cam around the .550-.570 lift range with a good idle, so im guessing a 112-114 LSA. My goal is to find a cam that has a wide power range, meaning it has power and torque from 1800-6000 rpm (Approximately). Yes, I will be upgrading the intake (LS6 intake likely) and using headers, porting, polishing and 3 angle valve job on the heads, as well as rebuilding the bottom end. Ultimately, my goal is to make about 425 hp at the wheels with this setup while being a good daily driver. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I am really trying to do my hw and get advice on this build before I start buying parts.

 

I used a 224 duration at .050 cam i think like 560 ish lift from comp cams years ago. Car made crazy hp with mu 2002 Z-28. Car pulled from down low to 6500 plus totally streetable and great mileage like stock. Cam was on a 112 so it had a nice lope Check out comp cams.

 

I know a lot of guys very happy with this cam http://www.texas-speed.com/p-5049-te...-tsp-228r.aspx

 

Thanx for the feedback, the texas speed cam looks promising. I need to check out the comp cams website and see what they have that is similar.

I am going to replace the springs and pushrods but is it a good idea and/or necessary to replace the lifters? what is the stock ratio of the rocker arms, worth the investment to upgrade them as well?

 

You can also get a package deal here: http://www.texas-speed.com/c-845-camshaft-packages.aspx

They're very friendly too, feel free to call them with questions about your set up, they have great techs who know a lot about LS combo's

 

Rocker arms are just fine. Do a trunion upgrade and be done with them.

Upgrade the lifters. If you have no plans for crazy, crazy numbers... get the LS7 lifters. Not expensive, good quality, can handle higher lift.

 

Excellent, once I get the bottom end to the machine shop ill start ordering some parts

 

Anyone else have some numbers with their cam and other upgrades? Are the stock heads good enough for around 475-500 hp with some porting polishing and angle work?

 

It is possible will def be max effort build on 5.7 realistic prob around 450ish or less

To achieve close to 500 going need fast intake and CNc heads to include bigger cam to take advantage of airflow

Trunion upgrade is a must

I had EPS cam big power smaller lobe easier on drivertrain

There's power left on the table just in valve train stability alone

Make effort build means spending $$$$ everywhere lol

 

When I get to this, I'm going to go with a set up from advanced induction. You send your heads to them, they port/polish, set you up with springs, rods and a proper cam... 450whp without any voodoo and crossed fingers.

 

i am not familiar with them, what do they charge ?

 

I think it's around $2200ish? Been about a year since I've looked at their website.

I plan to send my stuff down there in the winter, have my block/rotating assembly refreshed, then assemble once it all comes back... But it's sort of at the bottom of the list for me, I have a mountain of work to do first.

 

If you have an LS and want more power without aftermarket heads absolutely A.I.

They get some sick power out of heads.

I'd keep the duration under 225° if you want near stock power band, but with more power and more top end.

 

I just checked out their website, and their prices seem pretty reasonable for the work they are doing. I might end up sending my heads to them.

 

A.I. does amazing work in the LS/LT world. They are not the cheapest, but quality is very good.

Lloyd Elliot also does LS/LT work and he's more affordable. Plenty of people with great results from his heads/cams.

I considered sending a set of heads to him, but went with someone else. I later ended up having to replace the heads and ended up buying a set of AFR 195's. But I'm still using the custom cam he spec'd for my setup. It drives/sounds awesome.

I have just enough streetable power to drive the car, even though its not happy below 1500rpm at all (spent probably 2hrs on the phone with Lloyd, and I knew about this), but once you get around 2000rpm its got plenty of power. But 3000rpm is when the party really starts, and then its a rocket ride to 7000rpm.

My cam is 231/239 @ .050" on a 110LSA. With similar displacement in an LS1 you'll have a similar power curve.

 

Thank you for the information. I am going to call AI and talk to them and see what the say and where their price is for what I am looking for. If the price is a little too steep and try Lloyd Elliot. I am in no big rush at the moment, so I want to weigh all my options.

 

Spend some time talking with Lloyd and AI. Lloyds a great guy to talk to and ultimately I went with his cam partly because of the effort he put into our conversations and explaining how the various things would affect the power band.

 

I sent AI an email with what I am looking for, so lets see what they reply back with and what type of pricing they offer.

 

Doesn't AI charge like under 1000 for CNc heads last time I check which is a steal for fully CNc heads rebuilt etc I'm sure if you just want CNc port prob would be cheaper

 

Lloyd does amazing work. Set my stock heads up perfect... even shimmed it for the higher boost numbers I plan to run. $600 out the door with him porting/polishing, assembly and shimming it.

 

I just looked at their LS pricing. Much cheaper than the LT pricing.

 

The price from Lloyd sounds great, i'm still waiting to hear back from AI. I think I will contact Lloyd in the meantime.

 

Yea AI is a bargain

 

I checked out Lloyds website and the LS1 LE1 option looks like a good fit for me. I think that what he is asking is a relatively decent price considering the heads are completely built and ready to bolt on. The only thing I would have to do is replace the trunions on the rocker arms if I am not mistaken.

I still have yet to hear back from AI which is bugging me.

 

Well great, now I'm not sure who to go with either...

My goal is to be between 11.5-11.9 with it. I SHOULD have my 3.73 ZR2 rear set up some point mid summer, I'll be using "ebay headers" with a full dual exhaust x-pipe set up.

 

So AI got back to me last night and for about the same price as Lloyd Elliot they mill the heads to what ever cam spec i decide to go with, CNC, machine to 219cc, springs good too .600 lift and titanium retainers. They also recommended me a cam for exactly what I am looking to achieve for another 395$. Essentially from what I estimate, either facility would run me around 1600-1700$ for ready to bolt on heads with a cam designed for the head work.

 

Don't forget incidentals that go with that. Push-rods, maybe a new set of LS7 rollers...etc.

And since you are already in the bottom end, maybe an oil pump while you are at it.

Amazing how things end up.

Were I to buy heads again, I'd probably go with the AI TFS 212cc 21° heads for LT1. But I can't say I'm disappointed with the AFR 195s i have currently.

 

Yeah, I am easily looking at 2500-3000 for this build. Do I want to spend that much, no not really; however my mind set is to do it right while I have the entire motor torn down and hopefully never have to worry about it again once its in the car. I have been down that road of doing one or two things at a time only to have to go back and tear the top end down again to replace other parts in order to make more power or replace things I should have replaced the first time around. I will do new pushrods and lifters as well. The bottom end wont be upgraded too much, new bearings, seals,oil pump, rods probably. AI explained in their email that to achieve my goal of 425 rwhp, the LS1 motor doesn't need anything crazy done so I am happy about that.

 

Don't forget injectors and fuel pump.

I'm toying with the idea of leaving the bottom end alone when I do it. I have about 70,000mi on the motor. I'll take a look at things when I install a better oil pump. I think I have that issue with the oil pump seal not being seated right and that causes a bit of a clicking noise on high rpm under near WOT with a load on it.

 

Usually that stupid o-ring causes loss of pressure The pumps are different and require different o-ring sizes.

9D1Burd and I went thorugh that crap on his engine, it was a pain. Even when we had the right o-ring, getting it to seat correctly was a pain.

 

ill be sure to make sure when I replace the o ring that it is seated properly.

The stock LS1 fuel pump wont handle head work and a cam? I did figure on having to change the fuel injectors though, but I have no idea where to even start with that.

 

I built my fuel system with about 500 crank HP in mind. Plenty of low-mid 4xxwhp cars use a 255 without issues.

 

Who makes a good 255gph fuel pump that is reliable?

 

The Bog Standard recommendation on these forums has always been the Walbro 255 kit. Really its not expensive, works perfectly, and I haven't ever seen a bad post about it. If 255lph feeds your needs, then the Walbro will be fine.

I considered one of the Aeromotive pumps, but ended up going with the Walbro when I encountered several posts about the Aeromotive pumps going bad.

 

I sent AI another email about the ls1 intake and if an upgrade would be needed for my goals. I was surprised that they told me not to change the ls1 intake for what I am looking to achieve.

 

I think the Dorman replacement LS1 intake is patterned off the LS6 and was only a few ponies behind the LS6, but still ahead of the LS1 OEM.

 

I am kind of relieved that I do not have to upgrade the intake and I can save a few dollars (that I am sure will get spent else where). I assume the throttle body is sufficient as well then.

 

Yes it is waste to get any larger as ls1 intake opening is limited a lot

Can get it ported tho the throttle body and throttle blade mod to open fully

 

excellent, I will definitely upgrade the throttle body.

 

You can port your own stuff too if you're up for it.

 

Yes can port your own
Or
Guy on eBay does good job and cost around 80 bucks or less I don't remember

 

Porting should be easy enough, I will most likely do it myself. As far as fueling goes, I know I need to upgrade the fuel pump but does anything else need to be changed in the fuel system, ie injectors, regulator .

 

You need to decide your desired power level, then build the fuel system to match.

You want in the neighbor hood of 400-500rwhp? You need a decent fuel pump, and you need injectors to match. There are many calculators out there that can help. But you are looking at 30-36#/hr injectors. Regulator depends on how you size your injectors.

I chose to use 30# injectors that were rated at 39PSI, and run them at a higher fuel pressure to make them act as larger injectors.

 

what are the stock injectors rated and with a regulator what can they safely be bumped up to?

 

LS1 is already running 55psi at the rail. So the pump is mostly maxed out anyways. The higher the pressure you drive the pump at, the less it flows.

LS1 injectors are 28.8#/hr.

Injector calculation for 100% duty cycle is thus.

(Flow Rate * Cylinders) / BSFC (usually .5 or .6)

Example: (28.8*8) / .5 = 460 flywheel HP @ 100% Duty Cycle. You general safety rule is 80% DC so thats not enough.

You can calculate the other direction by this formula.

BSFC * HP / Cylinders.

Since you say around 420whp, thats round-abouts 500hp.

.5 * 500 / 8 = 31.25#/hr.

The more RPM you turn, the more injector you need too. The richer the engine runs, the more fuel you need at a given HP. Lots of little variables that make these formulas guidelines.

But given the effects of running lean, I'd rather err and have more than enough fuel on tap.



OOOOR you can be lazy and use this website.
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php

 

Go to FIC you get good quality and tune data

I'll say get 42lb would be good enough and room to grow if need be

 

I knew somewhat about calculating the fuel pressure and staying at or below 80% duty cycle. I just wasn't sure what the stock injectors flowed. The 42lb injectors sound good, because I would like to have the room to increase power if I decide to later on.

 

And still can bump up pressure to flow higher Also from stock so cans be higher than 42lb

Stock injectors will max out with most bolt ons more less or close to max duty cycle 42lb is a great starting point for cam head ls1 with supporting mods

Anything lower than That just wasting $$ especially if especially if you plan to grow

 

I got 400whp on stock injectors but I had a walbro 255 pump and corvette filter/regulator. Still using the same pump/regulator now on the turbo setup but I have a backup 450 pump ready to go in when the 255 craps out.

 

Sweet, sounds like an awesome setup with the turbo. I will go with the 42lb injectors, especially after looking over the FIC website and playing with the calculator. Ill also go with the 255pump with new filter and regulator. I first have to tackle the heads and get them sent out to AI. I am pulling myself in too many directions right now and have to stay focused on one task at a time. One day I am doing custom body work and the next i'm worrying about engine parts lol