Linson

if you are going to respond by telling me to do a search, then do not respond. its not as though i haven't been racking my brain with this for months. there are endless points and counter points, and i need to have my own particular conversation, especially with those who have been there and done it.

I want to take my '89 Formula 350 to the next level. there are 37k miles on the car and 7k miles on the mildly built L98 (Fast Burn heads, ZZ4 cam....)

as far as the performance for this street car, the increase from the Procharger is significant, but the greatest potential is with the LS1. also, the gains from the Procharger are somewhat ambiguous by comparison. and i have never heard of anyone being disappointed with the results from an LS swap.

cost is somewhat of an issue because i wouldn't want this project to stall out.
even though i can get a running LS F-body donor car for under 4 Gs in my area, and the Procharger kit alone is about a $5,000 hit, i am fairly certain that the LS swap would cost considerably more in the end. one reason for this is that i do not tend to do things on the cheap. for example, the LS1 will need to be rebuilt, and i can't not upgrade the cam, and at least have some work done on the heads. then, if i pull that L98, i'm gonna want to paint the engine bay - and if i paint the engine bay, i'm gonna want to paint the whole car ($$$). but even without going into the paint, it seems that "swap parts" i.e. cross members, motor mounts, wiring harnesses - things like that - would soon add up to quite a bit more than a belt driven supercharger that installs in a few hours. and i can always do the LS thing on my '67.

am i on track with my thinking in regards to the hidden costs of doing an LS1 swap?

what would you guys do & why?

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Yes.

See build thread.

The fact that you are asking here means you have probably already made up your mind. Because we are obviously going to tell you to put a LS in it.

I was kind of debating the same thing, swap to a factory option engine, build it and put power adders on etc and have a more retro type swap or go LS. But so much stuff is available on LS and you can kinda take it anywhere you want to after you get it in and running. Want to Ls and then procharge it later? Go for it, you can do that. Want to turn it into a big block, just do it.

But with what you are talking about doing you can easily get into 1.5x what the engine will cost just on the extra stuff. Should be worth it in the end though, just be prepared.

Linson

thanks. and leaning a certain way, maybe. but not mind made up. i posted this in the Power Adder forum too so i can see what those guys have to say. if half those guys say LS, and 90% of guys on this forum say LS, that would be very telling.

another thing that causes me to lean LS is tuning. NOBODY wants to work on TPI - or knows how to tune it, or maybe its parameters are just too limited to be tuned too far from stockish.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Nothing wrong with a small block. The TPI intake is what will hold you back.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

I was in your same shoes before going lsx
I tuned both also tpi and lsx are you trying to tune your self ?
Tpi: pros cons
Easier if course
Need to probably learn how to tune
Throw tpi intake away and or extensively work on it probably where you spend most money
As wanting more power you will shortly get use to it and want more
A lot more envolve as bar can swap head swap intake
In long run more money will be spent

Lsx: pros cons
Upfront cost is expensive but not that bad especially look on classifieds and depending how much you do yourself and parts get used or new
Easier to work on
Room to grow endless
More reliable
Power above 4500 is what you make it work it and keeps accelerating
Smile on you face price less

If it's just a weekend car and don't care for performance and long term,goals of improving that then I would stick with sbc procharge easier and less hassle and upgrade intake now or later and get tuning stuff and learn how to tune great way to,learn and get a hang of so tpi

Main reason I went lsx was cause of reliability as I daily drove and possibility of growing and the ease if working on the engine

I would love a tpi and lsx thirdgen and as far having both my hand just goes to lsx especially if you get 6 speed even a stalled auto just a different beast the tpi I enjoyed more as cruiser because after 4500 smiles turned to frowns and I couldn't justify spending on upgrading intake. Any more than I did as I had eldebrock base tpis runners ported plenum 58mm or even dealing with the hassle of doing full port job


Lsx gets my vote tho

Linson

Thanks for that input Zach. My top end I think is similar to what yours was.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

The reliablity and ease of working on it sealed the deal lol
After couple injector swaps and some gremlins that always seemed to pop up at wrong moments gets old quick

Linson

I have a two thousand dollar question. What's the tale of the tape on an LS1 383 vs a similarly modded standard displacement LS1? Worth it?

Kingtal0n

I would avoid superchargers all together if you ideal vehicle is a street car with longevity/ you expect 150k miles from it. Superchargers tend to be rough on the main bearings and more well suited to drag racing. A proper turbo on any engine you choose will increase fuel efficiency and power throughout a wide range, is safer for the engine, and can be made to perform just as well or better on the street.

As to the engine; The best would be a pair of used junkyard 5.3L iron block LSx archtype, each will run $800-$1200 longblocks and they have great track records at 550-600bhp daily driver abuse (street cars with OEM internals and turbocharged) and the idea is for $1000~ a pop, you can have a complete spare engine ready to go for when you make a mistake.

Forget about building things; bearings, valvetrains, internals are all expensive and require experience and attn to detail, and even cleanliness. Until you pass the 600bhp~ mark, your best bet is using OEM internal engines with previously driven 50-120k mileage. Much cheaper in the long run, and dare I say more reliable.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

If I was in your shoes Id keep the sbc and add a supercharger. There are other routes instead of a 5000 procharger. I bought the p600b way back when it first came out. To give you a perspective I paid 3000 for billet impeller, 3 core intercooler and polished piping. On a bone stock 350 with the factory tpi and just headers/cat back and drag radials the car went 12.6 at 111. 9psi. I really think the people pushing the ls swaps all the time dont relise that when you get up there in max performance there really is a minute diff in performance between ls and sbc. I mean think about it. 80s tech vs 2000. Its like 20 years of advancement and sbc aftermarket has moved with it. If you want to compare stock sbc for tpi vs stock ls then you will see a clear winner. But sbc with good heads cam and intake is like an ls today. You have fastburn heads, decent heads but not the best. Zz4 cam good street cam but there are years after that of cam advancement. Dont know your intake as you didnt list it. You could actually if Im assuming here get a better cam, intake and heads and sell all your stuff and thats another route. Or,Vortec makes a sbc kit that you would have to fab very little to fit the tpi setup. Dont sweat the intercooler. For 8-10lbs you can run methanol injection and that car would have enough power to get into the 11s. You swap an ls on that budget and you wont be there. Contrary to popular belief not every pixe dusted ls motor has enough steam to run 10s out of a junkyard and get 30mpg cruising.

Linson

the intake is an Edelbrock Vortec lower intake, ported stock upper plenum, and AS&M Large Tube runners...stock TB with air foil.

Linson

i really appreciate the varying perspectives.

although this car is not and will not be a daily driver, reliability is super important to me.

it is not and will not be a sponsored track car either, so "peak performance" isn't exactly the overriding goal either. i want to cruise around in it and embarrass late model Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger guys. Corvette guys don't race.

other than that, i'm looking for a car that starts effortlessly, idles smoothly, and drives efficiently (meaning, i wont be trying to chase elusive lean/rich fuel conditions / dealing with driveability hiccups that sometimes leave you stranded / always being dissatisfied with the state of tune). for those reasons, I am leaning LS. it seems like i'm always dealing with one issue or another with just a mild NA TPI. it is not the $5,000 price tag of the Procharger that concerns me. it is the hard to shake feeling that i will be adding to the driveability and tuneability issues, and wind up getting more stress than satisfaction out of it.

my concern with the LS is that i am going to find out that the swap is anything but straight-forward. like i'm going to find out that i have to switch to 4th Gen gauges or my instrument cluster wont work - or that i have to shave two inches off my front fender wells...**** like that. whereas with the Procharger, there is at least the potential that i can basically bolt on 150 horsepower and call it done (...potentially. probably unlikely knowing my luck).

Linson

seriously, does anybody have an educated opinion on whether or not a 383 stroker LS1 is worth the $2K over a standard displacement 5.7 LS1 with similar mods (heads, cam)?

Linson

and why do so many people seem to recommend a truck 5.3 over an F-body 5.7? is it simply due to cost? wont a similarly modded LS1 make more power than an LQ.

or are people assuming turbocharging and prefer the LQ for the iron block? whats the deal there?
just sayin, 'cause the LS1 comes with a whole car... (trans, ecu, everything...)

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

If you have been doing your research there shouldn't be any surprises. If you want AC you need to notch the K member or run tubular. The $8 coil pack is going to be hard to fit with an airbox. Guages should work fine if your harness is done correctly, most into the C100, and they make a $20 sensor change for the 4th gen tank if that is what you want to run, VSS wires up under the dash, and VATS needs to be bypassed. I did spend more than I thought, but most wasn't necessary.

I would say with your goals unless you are getting some serious heads/cam/intake the stock bottom end should be just fine. I thought about the same for a minute but it is not the same as a SBC. LS' just want cam, and have a good rotating assembly to start with. You would be better off spending that money on a better port job/heads and a FAST, IMO. Unless you think you are going to want to go with a bigger top end as well later.

Linson

[QUOTE=grngryoutmyway;6046031]

thank you.

then you're like me. trying to make something special, so budget isn't the foremost concern, but it is a concern.

interesting...
what youre saying does match a certain perception, given that GM LS crate motors seem to make exponential power increases with merely a difference in camshaft. wouldnt you still get a lot more torque though with a stroker?

R13_Braz

My turn.

I started on carbed SBC's in my 79 Camaro, and graduated to EFI SBC's in my 92 now. To me, the cost of building a SBC to handle the kind of power I want, and the power curve I want is what prevented me from continuing on that path. Tried and true engines, yes. But, they are outdated, no matter what anyone tells you. Change isn't always bad, and GM went with the LS base for a reason. Easy to modify, can swap pretty much any LS based part on it, reliable, dependable. List goes on.

After the headgaskets took a dump on me, I did my LS swap. I based my entire engine build on Hotrod's article attempting to blow up a LS-based truck motor and couldn't do it.

That said. I'm quite a bit into my swap, but that's because I took care of my suspension, steering, paint and bodywork, trans swap (T5 to T56), rear-end beefing, wheels/tires, and interior work and I'm still not done. Haven't even started the turbo side of it. My 4.8 makes more power for way less than a built SBC could, and it didn't cost me a boatload to do it either. Most expensive part of it? Getting the truck heads reworked, and that only cost me $900 including bigger valves, P&P, assembly, and shimming for boost. They flow 296cfm at .600. Once I've got the tune dialed in, and I swap to a FAST 102 intake setup, it should be right around the 440hp mark. Out of a 4.8. My red-line is 7200 and the power band goes all the way to red-line.

The reason why people say go 5.3 is because there are WAY more out there, and they are easily acquired if you have an issue with it down the road, for way less than what people want for an LS1. But, if you can get a complete wrecked car, that's generally the best way to go. Make money back, won't have to mod the harness much, accessories etc. Lots of advantages.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Biggest drawback to sbc is tuning. Doing a procharger tpi will make fantastic power, as much and more than a head cam ls1, but you need to upgrade ecm to atleast rbobs dynamic efi ebl system which will be easiest plug and play setup. And budget friendly at like 400-450$
You can run code $59 on 730 ecm which i have in the past but its not necessarily for beginners and requires alot of work to dial in properly to get the reliability up

If you are able to tune yourself then i'd stick with what you got and pursue blower. Power adder cars are way more fun

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=Linson;6046035]All in what you wanna do man. If you have a stroker plus the big heads and intake cam and everything you will make more than on just the top end with a stock bottom. If you only have money for one focus on the cam and top end, because you will get better results with money spent there, but it will only get you so far (but it is pretty far). If you can afford the whole boat build the bottom end as well, but I wouldn't go for that over the other unless you plan on going back to the top end later if that makes sense.

In answer to that and the other question... If that is what you want why not get a 6.0 block and build the top end? The truck blocks are reccomended because they are cheaper and more readily available. Whey even rebuild it when you could get a spare for an extra $100 over the rebuild cost?

I went through all that stuff as well, but ended with your argument over buying the whole deal together. It is tough to source everything and make sure it is the right stuff without a lot of research as well. Toughest is getting all the T56 stuff on their own if you are wanting to go manual since everyone buying a truck motor wants one of those as well.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Pushrod stuff is about the cheapest its ever been. Orr is right about the tuning. The best combo any platform will underperform with the wrong tune. Im trying to understand what about your combo you dont like. That should be a 12 second combo easy. Have you had it on a dyno? Track times?

ransam

iTrader: (2)

You could also run the Holley hp each on the tpi motor to fix the issue with the stock ecu and add a turbo or two to the current engine. If you can do fab work and keep boost at a modest level you will be able to make plenty of power and have a reliable car with less effort than a swap. Also you would be able to do it in stages as funds and time are available so your car isn't down for long periods of time. You could do the Holley hp ecu first, spend time learning the software and once you are comfortable with that add the turbos and you shouldn't have much down time.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

To me tuning with a stock ecu 20 something years old...I dont know. The wiring is old, the electronics are old. Paying someone somewhere to burn a chip or yourself. With that combo running right it should be very fast. On a dyno is one of the best ways to see how the tune is. You got to sit down and see your plans. Fast car hardly driven which is reliable is what I take from it.

I mean someone mentioned 296cfm from a ls head. That means nothing. My heads flow 330cfm, that also means nothing. A short runner sbc intake with comparable heads to ls type motor and camshaft with an aftermarket updated ecu. Your not going to find that big a diff in hp between the two, cu inch simaler. You will hear ls getting 30+mpg. Well the drivetrain matters too. 6,7,8 speeds. Active Fuel management which shuts down half the cylinders cruising this all add to that.

Think about this. Your car running correctly now , Im assuming this btw. You swap to an ls. Comparable condition, not a 100,000 mile plus junkyard engine,and all the swap parts to make it work. Which means a 4l60e too if your automatic. You will most likley be at the same performance level you are now. Or you put a vortech on it. 8-10 psi and be 400+hp easy. I mean whats the hottest ls junkyard will you actually find? 340hp? Would anyone go through all that work to swap in a 100,000 mile trans and engine? Right way is a built crate ls and a rebuilt 4l60. Which is way over $5000. Alot to think about it will make your head spin.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Do the math on this one. 3860 scale weight (AC and all)at 12.6 at 111mph. This happened in 1998. Bone stock tpi at 230hp. How much did I gain at 9psi? Alot... I have an old pushrod 94 5.0 mustang supercharged. 420hp to the wheels. Was the 2015 ZL1 who tried to pass me embarrased? Yes! Or the 6.4 hemi challenger who tried to pass me too and was embarrassed as well. Lol, I know what your looking for. Its a good feeling.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

That is good. My stock 305 tpi with 7-8 psi went 13.4 at 109-110 mph. Probably 3400-3450 lbs with me Wouldnt run any faster with more boost, thought it may have been valvefloat. But does go to show a big gain with boost

Full bolt on ls1 ta at 3600 lbs trapped 108-109 on a good day. That was 308 whp, so just a comparison. Lot of our 370-400'whp cammed ls1's go 114-115 mph. That would be another few psi boost from the L98 to match. Back in 06, my buddy was running mid 12's at 115 with a 113 headed L98 with slp runners and 12 psi vortec

Z28FAST1

Compare successful TPI procharger builds vs LSx builds on this forum. How may are stock bottom end, H/C/I, etc. How many are running 11's or better. Next how many are street driven cars. That will narrow down your choices.


383 LS1 not worth the parts/labor costs when you can get find pull-out 6.0 or 6.2 truck motor for less.

Linson

i'm glad you asked that. the car seems to run good most of the time. every now and again it'll have what seems like an IAC issue where the car doesn't want to hold idle (usually when its cold) but you can only replace so many IACs to no effect. seems to have some sort of "long term fuel trim" issue - whatever that means. but basically on its best day, i am not confident that it can beat a stock LS1 from any type of start.

the car definitely does not feel like a 12 second car. i'm not even sure it feels like a 13 second car - harder to say. it feels about like my full bolt-on LT1 - maybe stronger down low, but falls off much sooner (typical TPI, i know). although the car spins the wheels effortlessly, it honestly doesnt feel all that torquey under acceleration.

i did have it Dyno Tuned at Blood Enterprises in Auburn, WA. that felt like a real waste of about $900. the car didn't run any better or worse than it did with the Ed Wright chip. and their NOTORIOUSLY stingy dyno had me at like 226 rwhp. Now, granted, even the owner and the tech, who acknowledge the stingy reputation for their dyno, said i could probably easily figure another 50 or more horsepower, i expected an honest 300-330 wheel horsepower with this combo, figuring i would also be at the limits of my particular iteration of TPI.

the primary factor which causes me to lean LS swap is the difficulty in tuning a 1989 L98. i have had nil luck in finding a shop in the greater Pacific Northwest that even wants to tune my car. almost nobody even has the software. its a forgotten technology. having TPI not like having a flip phone, but like having whatever was before that - hell maybe even an early mobile phone. An LS swap would feel like a smartphone upgrade.

the primary factor which causes me to lean Procharger is the considerable investment i already have in this L98:
cheap Scat forged rods with ARP Wave-Lock bolts, Sealed Power DDP hyp pistons, Fastburn heads, ZZ4 Cam, 24lb injectors, Holley AFPR, AS&M TPI Runners Edelbrock Lower Intake, 1.5 roller rockers, $400 Fluidampr, $750 headers/Y-pipe...and probably a bunch of other little ****.

i have little interest in completely changing my induction system on my L98. if i pop my hood open, if i don't see TPI Runners, then I better be looking at an LSx. a bonus of the Procharger system is that the offset bulge on a Formula looks as though it was custom made to accommodate a centrifugal supercharger.

Linson

thanks. my initial inclination was to look into turbocharging, but again, no one wants to (or can) do the tuning in my area. plus i was put off by the comparatively complex plumbing involved with turbocharging vs. a belt driven supercharger. it also seemed that many of the parts needed (header(s) in particular were less than perfect. i'm not set up to do a lot of fab work, i dont really have the patience to "learn how to tune" (unless i absolutely have to). i really need something that is "plug and play."

Linson

sounds like you're making some good points here.

one of the attractive things about an LS1 swap is that i can get a donor car for 4K or less. still i get what youre saying about the larger displacement motors. i just always prefer to have something a little more torque biased - it is a Pontiac after all.

Linson

Orr, i truly wish that you were my neighbor. that way, through offerings of booz, and the power of my winning personality, i could persuade you to tune my Formula for 8-9 lbs of inter-cooled boost. and i haven't dismissed the idea of going the Procharger route, for reasons i have stated. but i must ask - does the fact that i am building what is to be primarily a street car, and not a race car, change your overall view at all in this blower vs swap debate? a street car that does 12's (high 12's on street tires) is fine with me. as for 11's, sounds like might be pushing the limits of stealth and streetability - and i still have my '67 to build.

Linson

indeed. sounds like you know exactly what i'm looking for.
how was your cars driveability, street manners, and reliablility, (tune) with the supercharger?

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Have you thought of 5.3 can get the cheap
Pop in a zo6 cam mill heads clean engine up get stall for auto unless you want 6 speed
Of course you can do more with a 5.3
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/pro...l-block-build/

Cheaper depending what you upgrade or how crazy you want it
You get reliability and ease of tuning
Better power curve you want in usable range on the street
All that for cheaper price than a 5.7 or 6.0

For you 67 you can go buck wild for power lol

Like said before with sbc you Will have gremilins pop up but lucky you don't drive to much

Upgrading to Bosch 3 inj really smooth out the idle and far smoother

Also keep tpi engine of you want to ever go back down the road

Tune on tpi supercharge or not really depends on if you do it your self or upgrade pcm like stated above there not many people that tune anymore

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

I did the supercharger in 1997 initially. I had one of the first kits in the New England area. Years later I never even saw a tpi camaro running one. That being said back then there was no tuning. It was a fmu, and a bigger pump. An af meter to see the ratio under boost. And a fp gauge.It was fast ran and idled good. But he car was only 7 or 8 years old. Not 20+ on old wiring. In regards to iac problems you might have a small vacume leak somehwere. To have someone burn you a chip states away and hope its dead on. I still think your car is off.
My car ran in 96 a 14.2 with nothing but drag radials and exhaust. I mean you have a pretty good built motor. In regards to the other car I have. Ill try to shorten it here. When I picked it up 3 years ago It had a smaller supercharger, on a basically stock motor with gears and exhaust. Car felt fast, idled ok l, but never felt right. So I brought it to be dyno tuned. One of the best mustang tuners in the country. Can you believe the first hit on the dyno was 150 rwhp and 300ftlbs? With 8psi?Fuel and timing were so wrong, car had a small chip in it, mail order autologic.By the time he was done it was 318rwhp and 340ftlbs. Was like a new car, unbelievable. But shop charges $550 a dyno tune and $100h shop rate. Paying $900 for basically nothing is they ripped you off. A good tuner will tune it or tell you why they cant. Find those dyno sheets and show us the af ratio and the timing curve. 220RWHP is low. Whats the tq number. Mustang dynos are "stingy". To be honest my friends uncle I dont know how many years back built a 355 and dynoed it. Full edelbrock upper and afr heads 10.1 motor. On a engine dyno it made like 375hp and the tq was crazy. 470ftlbs. This was all tuned on a holley hp. I feel you combo is very simaler as his build was years ago on older version afrs. So you even at 370 crank hp and a 20% drivetrain loss you should be around 300 rwhp. Find those dyno sheets for reference. I think your car is not correct by any means.

ransam

iTrader: (2)

I keep seeing you comment about tuning, all your issues are with the stock ecu and not the tpi. If you swap to the Holley hp ecu your car will be the same to tune no matter what engine or intake set up it has. I would find a shop that is familiar with the Holley system and pick their brain about what they charge for tuning or even go to holleys forum and read anything involved with with tpi. You will need a tuner no matter what engine you end up with. The ls swap is not difficult but can get expensive in a hurry and unless you have a pile of cash on stand by will take a considerable amount of time as it's easy to get cought up in upgrades. In my opinion I would swap to a better ecu weather it is Holley or fast or something similar, have a pro sort it out and drive it for the summer then over the winter look at superchargers if that is what you want. Down time sucks and once a car is tore apart and you have to throw a lot of money at it to get it done it gets discouraging. Look how many swaps have been started only to be parted out and how many have twice the money in them than they thought they would. I had the same dilemma as you are in. I built a nice 383 with all the $ intake parts and spent over 1000 on tuning and burning chips to hate the way the car ran. So I sold the motor swapped in a Pontiac 400 then switched midway through to a 5.3 and before that was done I switched to a lq4 and am now finally ready to get it fired up for the first time in many years. When swapping it is easy to get cought up in the latest and greatest combo so your always second guessing parts you have bought. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Why not compromise and run a LSx PCM on your TPI with the procharger?

Tuning options are anything that deals with LSx
Drivability issues wont go away but a troubleshooting system will be introduced to GREATLY speed tracking down minor nuisances
The blower will break the 4500 ceiling (Boost>flow)
Keep what you have
Dumps the 28 y/o wiring
Enables better transmission and control options ex 4L60E

EBL is another option but limits to DIY. Youll have a hard time finding a shop thats even heard of it

Dont get me wrong, Im all for dumping SBCs into a lake and going LSx, but it sounds like you're clinging to the old 350. Thats something youll have to sell yourself. Doubt anyone here will be able to sway you completely to one side or the other

Yes the LS is quite a bit more expensive, but the things you listed that will drive the cost up are strickly optional. Painting the bay/car, rebuilding the engine, stroker kit, mods, mods and more mods...

kenney001

iTrader: (1)

Here is my build list so far

This should help give you an idea of hidden costs and small parts.

This is just in Engine/Transmission. I put in a mild cam and supporting mods, and was doing a manual conversion, so my costs are a tad higher. I also made money back selling stock engine parts, which is not included

I have about double this if you include Chassis/Rear End/Etc

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

I was able to find a great deal on my LS1/T56/PCM, $3k total almost 10 years ago. There were the mounts/trans cross member, shifter, odds and ends and tuning to add. You'll have the rest of the donor car to part out to recoup your costs though. I had been planning on rebuilding the SBC, vortec heads etc, but by the time I added up all the parts I wanted/needed, I was very close to the LS1, so I took the plunge. I have about 25-30k miles on a mild bolt on combo now.

I was able to hold the line on the extra mods, partly because I wanted to make sure it actually ran (my car was the 3rd car this motor was supposed to go into, 2nd gen DSM and C1 vette being the aborted projects). Other reason was that I just didn't have the cash to do more than a stock swap. Since I've not been pricing out the parts recently, I can't say that things are cheaper/more expensive than then, but the knowledge base is much better now.

Going Ls1, you'll drop weight off the nose, good for driving, but you'll need to modify your front springs. Procharger, you're adding weight to the nose. The drivability is great (dd mine 3 seasons) and for me plenty of power, though much more is available with heads/cam. There are a several cam makers that can tailor it to be a torque monster if that is your goal too, swapping in a cam =/= high rpm screamer. If you want to swap to a T56 (you have a t5 now?) look into the TR6060 (the newest version), I just test drove a new Camaro, much smoother, and stronger. I believe the Magnum branded T56 is the TR6060.

All that being said, I understand not wanting to ditch the motor you have put a good chunk of change into, but this has been my experience.

Linson

Linson

well, for one thing, at 12.5 12.7 to 1, that fuel mixture seems rich (to me). i'm no expert.

the dyno sheet indicates that it is a 355 ci motor. that must've been the tuner's assumption. its actually a natural 350, not that that would matter.

Linson

at a little over 13 to 1, the Ed Wright chip seems to have been more "right" than Blood Enterprises' "live" chip.

Linson

Quote:

In regards to iac problems you might have a small vacume leak somehwere.

i know, right...
smoke tested it and everything. can't find a vacuum leak.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I would have no problem with that lol i would definately do it.



I still stand by the sbc route only because its fresh. It has 7k miles and has good heads on it already. It makes sense to me to keep that as your base. Blower kit is a simple way to make power and will be reliable as long as its tuned. Thats the only hurdle i see here, is a good system for tuning. Thats extra expense for sure, but the lsx motor deal with a cam will still need a tune and wiring integration into stock harness like Pocket has done, and myself using 411 pcm on my turbo car. Dyno tune will be around 500$

If it was 130k miles L98, i say swap it

No reason you cant have a 11-12 sec car in either configuration and be daily driveable. I could put you in a few 9-10 sec cars around here you could take grandma to church in. Guess what? They are all boosted

Linson

The pics I posted are what I got. They didn't give me a sheet that documents the timing.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

First off, ive never seen a dyno with the afr on a seperate page. Im assuming you dynoed it with the ed wright chip, and this place said they could tune it better for $900? Im assuming this because sheets are similar.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

What Im trying to wrap my head around is the fact he said there is another 50hp in the car. Hey buddy I just gave you $900, find it!

Isnt that a mustang tuner? Blood?

Linson

They did a baseline dyno pull with the car as I brought it (the before) with the Ed Wright chip. I came in at 9:00 in the morning and the car wasn't ready until probably 4:00 in the afternoon. So most of that 900+ dollars went for their "per hour" fees.

Their statement that the car's true horsepower was likely 50 above the dyno numbers was their acknowledgement of the notoriously stingy nature of their mustang dyno.

Linson

Doesn't that 12.5 a/f ratio seem rich though?

kairles

iTrader: (2)

I dyno'd my car and it registered really rich in the dyno too.





I like the theatrics that come with having a SC.

Linson

What's that mean? The whine? The over-the-top output?

kairles

iTrader: (2)

Yes. The whine/whistle, the blow off sound, the change of exhaust tone. It all just makes me smile.

Linson

One... Two... NO! He kicked out.

so, it would seem that the book isn't quite closed on this LS swap...

cut and paste from power adder section: