PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

Here's my 91 Formula

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

Very Nice

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

strc09

iTrader: (5)

Ditto. Clean looking ride!

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

VERY nice!

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the compliments! I just got an email yesterday from the National Firebird & Trans Am Club. They are featuring my car in their February 2014 national publication The Eagle. Kinda excited about that...
Sorry about the image quality. I took pics with my phone of my computer screen. I think the actual magazine gets mailed out at the end of the month.

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

AWESOME! Congrats Josh!

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

IMissMy86TA

Get that baby some storage! You beast!

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

I can't put him in storage because another foot of snow came down since that photo was taken.

IMissMy86TA

dang

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

I know these cars don't like snow!their useless in the snow

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

I never got stuck

NowhereFast

Nice car. Were the ground effects added on?

LastGTA

iTrader: (1)

Not to be an ******* but I can't believe the National Firebird & Trans Am Club would label your car as a Formula. Nice car regardless. My first F-body was a red 91.

IMissMy86TA

those are stock for the year.

update:
whoops.. guess I was wrong.. not a formula guy.

prossi

not for a formula...thats a firebird with formula stickers on it. the spoiler is from a firebird, the hood is from a firebird, wheels are from a firebird it says firebird on the fender and i believe all 91-92 formulas were TPI....i may be wrong about the TPI thing but nonetheless either thats a firebird or someone spent a bunch of cash to make a formula look like a firebird?????

clean firebird though!

NowhereFast

I was thinking the same thing, just didn't want to be the one to point it out.

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

It is a Formula. Before I bought it, I checked the VIN on Carfax and it comes up as a Formula. In fact, you all had me doubting myself so I rechecked the VIN with my insurance company and they verified that it came up as a Formula. Regarding the National Firebird Trans Am Club, they asked for my VIN before deciding to feature the car.
The Formulas didn't come with the TPI. The Formulas had the 5.0 TBI with 170hp, the Trans Ams had the 5.0 TPI with 205hp and the GTAs got the 5.7 TPI with 240hp.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

The VIN will not tell you if the car is the Formula or not. The fact it has the 305 TBI means it could be a Formula or could be a base model Firebird. The fact it has ground effects, the flat hood, 15" base model rims and the base model spoiler points heavily towards it being a base model Firebird.

Even further, the Formulas DID have TPI motors as an option. 305 TBI, 305 TPI and 350 TPI. The Trans Am and GTA could be had with either the 305 TPI or the 350 TPI.

macneilbibi

summer how i miss it...

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

So.....this discussion inspired me to do some deeper research. When I was looking for a new toy to buy this Fall, I knew I wanted a 3rd generation Firebird or Camaro. Now, I have always loved these cars. When I was in high school my brother had a 91 Trans Am. He had the 5.0 TPI. I was for the most part in search of T-tops. I never new enough about the cars at the time to know the differences between the base Firebirds and the Formulas. I came across this car and it was being advertised as a Formula. I was none the wiser. Carfax marked it as "Firebird/Formula" and so did my insurance company.
Now, with that long winded story, I never tried to decode the VIN myself......until tonight. The 5th character of the VIN is the determining charater as to whether it's a Firebird or a Formula. If the VIN character is S, it's a Firebird and if the VIN character is W, it's a Formula..........I have an S. So, tonight I just found out that I bought a Firebird and not a Formula.
I guess I'm kinda surprised that the NFTC accepted it as a Formula also. Like I said, I was non the wiser. I have been diving into educating myself though and today was definitely an education. Now, someone could easily install the ground effects and the spoiler during a restoration. But, the VIN don't lie. I'm weird, I actually prefer the spoiler I have vs the wrap around. So I guess I need to change some vehicle information.

I would like to thank LastGTA for having the ***** to politely point this out. I wouldn't want to continue looking like a douche calling my Firebird a Formula. No matter anyway.....I still love the car.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

The VIN decoder you used is wrong. Both the Firebird and Formula used the same S VIN. Trans Am and GTAs used the Ws.

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

Here is the decoder I used:
http://allgentransams.com/production...oder/gen3.html
It says the both the Formulas and the Trans Am's are a W and only S is Firebird.

89Formula3

That's not a formula.

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

Yes, read the rest of the posts and you will find that we have already determined that.........

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, it's wrong....

You aren't the first to be mislead by that site:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...-about-my.html

Unfortunately many sites have copied that information.

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

So, here's the big question since we have now determined that I don't have a Formula. I paid $4,200 for the car thinking it was a Formula. Now, since it's not a Formula, did I over pay? The car is still a great looking car and was 90% restored a year and a half ago.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

If you saw the car and liked the way it looked, then no. Realistically the performance difference between a Formula and a base model both with the TBI motor isn't that much.

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for all the info

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

No,it would cost as much or more to do the restoration.

Red90IROC

Patriotic - that's a fine Firebird you have (BTW - awesome interior!). It's hard to tell what a collector car is worth without driving it - and internet pictures tend to make things hard to judge - but it sure looks like you paid a fair price for a 91 in that condition. JM02

89Formula3

In my opinion that's a good price.

You don't seen many clean thirdgens period. You got a nice car.

86T/A_Ram_Air

Just be clear on the whole firebird/formula thing here. Formulas NEVER had ground effects and always had the "power buldge" hood from the factory. The VIN will not tell you if its's a base or a formula. you need to locate your RPO sticker which for 91-92 is located in the lockable storage compartment in the hatch area. all others are in the console to my knowledge. Use the RPO decoder from this site which works well to decode what options your car has. Also while it was an option I have never seen first hand a 91-92 TBI formula. 87-90 on the other hand I have seen a ton of and have owned a couple

None the less you have a very clean nice looking car that looks well cared for and is a great cruiser

LastGTA

iTrader: (1)

No problem, like I said I didn't want to be an @$$. You don't need to say you looked like a douche either. You are obviously very passionate about your car and love it. When I had my 91 I thought it was a Formula too. It was the early 2000's and I was into the 4th gens but could only afford a 3rd. I always thought that if it had a V8 it had to be a Formula. Any ways we're all in this to help each other out. The only time I ever got pissed when people labeled their car wrong was when I had a 1992 GTA the 1996 Trans Am and my buddy had a 1994 Formula and he would tell people he had a Trans Am.

Just surprised me that the "experts" at the NFTAC wouldn't have said something.

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

I was thinking about the NFTAC also. Now the NFTAC is for all years of Firebirds and Trans Am's. If the guys who organize/put together the publication are owners/experts on much earlier models, they may very well not understand just as I didn't. Again, they asked for the VIN and when the VIN is checked it comes up as "Firebird/Formula". So, I'm sure that was enough verification just as it was for me. I did send them an email last night, not sure if they'll be able to do anything about it at this point.

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

On another note, since the car isn't a Formula, come Spring I'm going to have to remove that Formula decal. I don't want it labeled a Formula if it's not. I do however, like the way the decal looks. I think I'll have a new decal made that looks the same but says Firebird.

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

The car doesn't just look great, it is great. Runs and drives beautifully. Everything on the car works. I haven't been able to check the A/C yet as it was late Fall when I got the car and temps in the 30's and 40's. The compressor engages, but won't know for sure if it's creating cool air until Spring. Painted, engine rebuilt, tranny rebuilt, wheel bearings all around, exhaust, interior, weather seals all done about a year and a half ago. Most of the suspension minus the shocks, were not included in the restoration. I don't think the components are all original, they were most likely taken car of prior to the restoration because everything under the car is tight and strong. I only had 3.5 weeks with the car before I had to put it away for winter. Spring isn't getting here fast enough.

IMissMy86TA

Its a nice car. I am a Firebird guy just never got into the ones with the different noses. I liked the flat style and paid no mind to those as they didnt appeal to me. but really yours is an excellent example of a fbird and you should be proud
I have owned one camaro (83 SC) and not a fan due to the dash.
ok. I am weird. lol

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

Certainly am proud. I fell in love the the car as it is, not just the label of Formula. I don't view my car as any less just because it's not a Formula. The car is what it is and I know I have a nice one.

Linson

i suppose. but for the OP's information, the Formulas with TPI motors (which represents the majority, i think), particularly the ones with 5 speeds, or 350s have a pretty major performance advantage over a base model Firebird. in fact they are perportedly a tiny bit faster than a Trans Am or GTA of the same specs.

Linson

1989 Formula 350. 33k original miles.
SFCs,1LEs, Hotchkis Rear, + more
Rebuilt stock L98, Forged Rods, Fast Burn Vortec Heads, ZZ4 Cam, Full Exhaust, SLP CAI, + much more
700 R4, shift kit, etc.
Hawks Fiberglass Aerowing, Lecarra Leather Steering Wheel

86T/A_Ram_Air

Ive owned two and I agree I am not a fan of the dash. so your not the only weird one. I feel like there is so much wasted space

IMissMy86TA

Yeah.. that describes my reaction to it.. i dont know.. just looks cheaper to me.. sorry guys.

PATRIOTIC1911

iTrader: (2)

You didn't read his whole post. He stated that the Formulas with the TBI don't really have much of a performance difference then a regular Firebird with a TBI. Of course a TPI has more performance. Hit has 35 more hp and 30 more ft lbs.

Linson

actually, i did read it. the initial part of my post where it says "i suppose" is in aggreement to the fact that the performance difference between a TBI Formula and a base model Firebird is probably not substantial.

also, i think the performance advantage over a base Firebird for a TPI Formula (which represents the majority of Formulas, i think) goes way beyond horsepower numbers. other advantages include better brakes, better suspension, posi-traction, and most likely a better performance rear gear ratio (three-forty-two or three-twenty-something vs. two-seventy-something.)

anyway, if you read the post you quoted me on, i was agreeing with AmorgetRS and expanding on his statement for your benifit so that you would not necessarilly have to be one of the many people who are under the false impression that PERFORMANE-WISE the hierarchy is Trans Am > Formula > Base. that is the price hierarchy. in performance, Trans Am and Formula are essentially identical, having identical hardware, if anything, with a slight advantage in favor of Formula for lighter weight. i just wanted to point that out in case you were not aware.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Formulas, unless 1LE, have the exact same brakes as the base models. Yes, the suspension is better as it is WS6, but I choose to ignore that since we are talking 20 year old springs and shocks that have either been replaced or are shot.

I believe that a 305 AT TPI Formula will have the same 2.73 rear end ratio as a 305 AT Trans Am or GTA, so they didn't necessarily have a better rear end ratio.

I didn't want to get into "what ifs" and "maybes", so I was comparing his car to a 305 TBI Formula. The differences would be WS6 suspension (which meant 16" wheels) and the Formula "appearance package" meaning, hood and spoiler + no gfx and like I said, after 20+ years the performance just isn't going to be that much different.

86T/A_Ram_Air

This is correct. 305 cars weather TBI or TPI could come with any rear end ratio unless of course its a 5 speed. Hell Ive owned a GTA without rear disc and a 2.73 rear as optioned from the factory...it was of course a 305 car

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Same here, one of my 91 GTAs is a 305 AT 2.73 drum brake car.

Linson

yes. i was aware of most of what you're saying. i was kind of generalizing in order to get the point across to the OP that Formulas generally are not inferior to Trans Ams performance-wise. i've seen TAs with rear drums, etc. too.

does a drum rear braked Formula or TA have posi?