I can't take a non-blurry picture to save my life!

Anyway.. i'm slowly blasting partsfor the front suspension myself and just using engine enamel.

I plan to buy new springs, cutting the stockers was never even in my list of things to do. Even if they're stock height replacements.

I just can't decide if a drop s NEEDED. I've seen some great looking cars at stock height on here and online. The older I get the more KISS and "Factory knows best" become my motto when working on cars like this.

 

Another thing too as old as these cars are, the springs have dropped a bit too. Which is why you see threads with guys saying, help, I put lowering springs in my car and it isn't any lower than what it was.

 

You can't go much lower than what standard lowering springs offer anyways without having absolutely no suspension travel. Mine was lowered when I got it but there was like a millimeter of travel before the arm hit the frame in the front. Worst ride ever. Bumpy and stiff as crap. Back to some used gm springs and I'm happy with the height and not losing fillings anymore.

 

This car only has 138k miles on it. (or is it X13,800? I dont recall what year they added the 6th digit to mileage) Maybe the stockers are ok? I'd still want new rubber pads for them to rest on.

Hawks has replacements for like $84 or somethin at stock height, but I know the 4th gen birds/camaros sit like monster trucks off the ground, so I don't want to repeat that, or I'll just be tearing into this thing again in the future.

 

You'd prolly be happy with the springs you have already. After that many miles they have prolly sagged a bit from the original height.

 

Slow going with all this rain we've been having.

I did get some blasting done, and I finally got the balljoints out. I broke down and paid a shop to get the control arm bushings out since I was having trouble with them. They told me it was a real pain. Odd I dont remember them being dificult on the C10 but that was a while ago and it had a cross bar.

At any rate, this is all I've gotten blasted so far.



Still got the a-arms, one spindle and the k-member to do. Then I'll be almost ready to start putting things back together! After a long buying spree..

 

Ya know I think as time goes on I start to appreciate what this car is, and how it should be done.

I don't see a reason to put GTA parts on it and make it something its not. I'm even going back and forth on putting new formula 350 badging on it ifwhen its painted.

I got water in my air compressor from blasting in the rainy weather, so... now I can't blast until I get that water out. The hose gets clogged right away.

I'm 1 a-arm and the k-member away from being done with that. I've already ordered balljoints.

I found a junkyard with several birds with a lot of parts I need, the problem is the cars have kudzu growing over them, and I have to remove the parts myself.

it has me thinking about trying to find a parts car. The funny thing is a parts car would be nicer than this car. But I already have this one partially torn down, so there's no reason to use the other car that I can think of, if I get one.

 

I'm also starting to think.. maybe I'm in over my head on this. (well I knew that when I bought it.. but..)

this is not just a dust it off, fix it up and drive it around type of project. I'm missing a LOT of parts from this car.

The engine bay wiring was all gone, the radiator bracket is missing, all the a/c components under the hood are missing, both of my taillights and the center piece are cracked/damaged, I dont have good rolling stock, this car hasn't had a brake job in 20 years probably. I mean I'm working through it, but this is gonna take a REALLY long time to do!

I was talking to a guy today parting out a car and was like..

yea I need the hvac/radio cubby, the hvac box under the hood, both taillights, rims, tires, the center firebird logo, the rear plastic trim across the back of the car, a hood, a headlight bracket for the passenger side, headlight motors, a wiper motor, wiper arms, bolts for the wiper motor, the hvac wiring harness, the under hood wire harness, the cruise control module, a cruise control column or at least the control on the column, and theres probably 100 other things I dont even know I need yet..

I've been looking at parts cars and finding running or near running v6 cars for like $900 and its like.. well maybe Id be better off getting one ofg those? At least it has all the parts.

 

Just tried to go to another sandblasting shop.

They want $200 just to sandblast the K-member. If it was going to be blasting and powdercoating for $150 I was going to take it.. but $200 just for blasting is outrageous.

I guess I need to buy a blasting pot because my siphon feed simply will not work anymore. I'm not sure why. It clogs in 2 seconds, every time.

 

FINALLY a working solution for sandblasting!

I started buying the black diamond fine grit blasting media, put on the smallest tip I have, re-worked the blasting gun from a deadman valve to a ball valve (its brass, so I gotta be careful, if I dont open it all the way the media eats a hole in it in less than half an hour.) I also bought a 4 port distribution valve for air and reworked it with my own fittings so that I can run 2 compressors on the blasting pot. 1 1hp 10 gal and 1 2hp 20 gal unit hooked to the 20gal blasting pot.

It probably cost me more than blasting at a shop, but I can blast anything I need to now and it works great! It's like using a marker on a whiteboard.

Neighbor came over today and wanted to help me work on it, we got the rearend out from under the car and I got the K-member and A-arm painted.

I also picked up some moog problemsolvers from rockauto. Says made in usa! Good to know.

 

While working on the rearend of the car I noticed sunlight coming up through the spare tire well. We took the rear bumper off and found out that the car had been rearended. It's been repaired but not very well. The rear bumper beam was replaced by a GM dealership here in Atlanta. It doesn't have a date on it.

The seam on the metal is busted in the spare tire well, and I'm not really sure what to do about this. All the parts fit as is, but I can't have a hole like this in my car.

 

Seam sealer will also crack and fall out as it gets older. Throw some spot welds at the torn stuff and seam seal it right back up.

 

Cool. Looks like eastwood sells it for $11. I love a cheap fix. My neighbor thinks it should be put on a frame rack and pulled out, but the bumper/bumper beam fits and the car looks normal. I'll just re-seal that and move on. The car's never gonna be perfect, its had a rough life.

I've noticed the sway bar endlinks are all TOTALLY shot. I've never seen something like this. They're flat out missing and the sway bars have like 1-2" of play. I bet this thing drove AWFUL in its last years on the road. No wonder they parked it.

The endlink bushings were plastic though? Is that part of the "performance suspension?"



The diff is in good shape. Not a lot of grease/grime on it, the seals seem to be good save for a few small spots on the rear cover. It has original tags on the bolts so it doesn't look like its ever been serviced. One of them talks about it being a posi rearend and I confirmed that by turning one of the wheels, the other side rolls the same direction.

I read on here recently that its likely a borg warner 9 bolt, it does have 9 bolts. I also read that it most likely has a 3.27 ratio. Not a 3.73 but I think its fine.

I can't figure out how to get the calipers off.

 

Swaybar endlink replacements I use moog blue poly (yellow poly was factory in 89 for WS6)
350 cars have the 3.27 gear factory. Looking at the 2 piece caliper backing plates, you have the 1st design. Made for 6 months or so until they went with the thicker 1piece bracket.
How much do you want to take off of the brakes?
For pad swaps, there is a little bolt on the top of the caliper slider, remove that and the caliper will rotate back off the rotor for a quick pad change.
if you are going down to the rotors, remove the 2 big bolts on the caliper mount.
Looks like a slight love tap on the spare tire area.

 

I want to replace the calipers, pads, rotors and hoses. I also need to get it all off so that I can wire brush and paint the rearend.

 

could you led me a hand, im trying to find out where this vacuum line goes on my 84 and cant find anything, was recommended by someone on my thread to ask you since you had your dash out and may know, here are some pictures of it...

 

Guilty as charged.

Looks like a vacuum line for one of the vacuum motors on the HVAC box. I hunted high and low for a good reference photo of a bx removed from the car, so he might get an idea where to feel around under the dash for a nipple to hook that onto, but couldn't come up with anything. I thought maybe if you had your out, you might have a photo that would help.

 

Yea, I've got mine on the workbench and the hoses should still be on it, since the previous owner decided to cut all of mine.

I'l snap a photo for ya this afternoon.

 

Quickest way is to remove the 2 big bolts that hold the caliper bracket to the 2 piece rearend bracket.

 

Just can't break those bolts loose. I curse my impact quite a bit these days. It can't seem to break anything loose. The old cheater bar just makes the rearend rotate on the saw horses.



OK so.. orange goes to the actuator for the blower motor box. You can see its the only one not attached in my pic on the bench. This is the firewall side of the airbox. You can see the blower motor airbox to the right of the airbox in this pic.



Here's where it goes in the car, it's REALLY high up with the dash on and to the right of the air box. I'm not sure if you can even reach this with the dash on.

 

Actually, you could get to that very easily with the dash on. The nipple on the baffle faces to the driver side and is on the bottom of the door.

 

oh, also, I cleaned and painted the inner fenders on the rear.




The black fluid in the jar is brake fluid. I.. think I should consider replacing the master cylinder. The last time I saw brake fluid this black I had a master cylinder failure and nearly rearended someone.

 

You may need to reinstall the rearend to hold it while you break those bolts loose, they have a LOT of lock-tite on them.

 

I got em with a cheater bar and some body weight.

its all stripped down to just the axle, brake lines are off, sway bar, control arms etc.

Here's the gears. I read a post today about a worn out 9 bolt, stared at the pics for 10 minutes and couldn't figure out how it was worn out. Yall see anything wrong here?

 

So the consensus is that the 9 bolt is shot.

But I'm going to use it anyway for now. Hawks 8.8s are over $2300, and I've seen some as high as $3k.. and I just dont want to do that right now.

I followed WhiteDevilTA's rebuild thread and was REALLY impressed, but.. I think.. I should probably set expectations for anyone who is following THIS thread (1.. 2 people.. maybe? heh, including myself) of where this car is going.

There's 3 basic ideas here.

1. KISS (keep it simple)
2. If it aint broke.. don't fix it.
3. Important stuff first. The Stop and the Go.

So, I'm not going to do anything like replace the underbody spray, or reseal the body joints, or replace glass that isn't broken (I do believe I will need to remove and replace the seal on the windshield though, but that's much later. This car has evidence of leaks in several places.) I'm not going to have a mirror finish under the hood or a chrome LS6 intake or anything like that.

This isn't a show car, and it wont be one. What it will be is a (hopefully) nice, safe enough, drivable car, drivable every day to work, or on long trips (if I can get cruise control in it) or to local cruise ins.

I won't be winning best of show or car of the week or month or even minute with this one.

My goal at this point, "Design" wise, is to go back to a stock Formula 350 exterior look, I am going to do drop springs (eibach 1.5s I think? I can't remember now. I dont know if it needs to go all the way to 1.8.. seems too low to me..) Stock F350 rims, stock paint scheme, with hopefully a nicer than black cloth interior, but with stock seats.

The older I get the more I'm a fan of "factory knows best" on vehicles, and the less I want to see aftermarket mods, other than clear improvements like in the powertrain and whatnot.



Ever wonder what your fuel and brake system look like? Well here it is. Both in one. I couldn't get the hoses lose on the fuel system just to drop the tank, so I said.. why not.. lets drop it all. I dont yet know what I'm going to do about fuel. I go back and forth on a corvette FPR filter, or an engine bay side FPR with a gauge. With this out, I can see whats here, do it up corectly, and put it all back in and be done with it HOPEFULLY one time.



Worn out or not, I went ahead and cleaned up the rearend with a steel bristle brush, cleaned off the grime and grease and rattle canned it black. It'll never win any shows with mirrors on the ground so people can see my chrome diff cover, but it'll HOPEFULLY keep me rolling for a little while.

Ya know the more I read about these custom rearends and how you needed special calipers and additional brakets and different wheel offsets and all that, it sounded like such a hassle I really didn't want to deal with it. Especially if I spend $3k on the diff and still can't stop the car until I spend another $1500 or so on custom or obscure parts. Then every time I need pads.. I'll need to buy fronts for an 82-92 firebird, and rears for a 93-97 firebird,or a caprice, or something else. Unless this thing stops like a freight train.. I think we'll be ok.



"Restoration" or even fixing a car up.. is the process of taking it apart, and stacking it in the corner. I hope I can remember where all this goes. At some point during re-assembly, I will purchase an assembly manual or 2.

 

Fuel pump and sending unit that's in the car now.

Or.. it was until today.

There's 4 lines coming off the sending unit. They appear to be fuel, return, evap, and overflow? The overflow just dumps to a cut off hose. Is this normal? Shouldn't there be a check valve in this or something?

I will not be using the evap line, and I'm likely going to use the corvette filter/FPR, so I will only need to use 1 of the 4 lines in the system to the front of the car, that should keep things simple.

I'll put a small filter on the evap line and let it vent, this car is emissions exempt here in GA due to age.

Overflow.. ??? Check valve? Vent to atmosphere? Can't use a filter.. don't know what to do about that.

I'm thinking a racetronix or walbro 255LPH pump should be sufficient for this car. I'm looking at a cammed LQ9 with stock injectors.

I'm also hoping I don't need a hotwire kit for a 255. I dont want to burn anything up, and I dont want to ever drop this tank again. These things are buried in a car with exhaust and all underneath it. I'm lucky this car was missing most of that already.

 

With all the sending unit lines cut and rubber on them, I'm wondering if your hatch floor was cut open for a access panel for fuel pump replacement..
Fuel psi line
Fuel return line
EVAP system
Tank PSI check valve

 

It wasn't, but the tank has clearly been out of the car. There's scuff marks inside the filler neck area and underneath you can see that the straps did not line up with the underbody overspray on the tank itself.

the car was rearended around 2000 it seems, perhaps they dropped the tank then when they "fixed" it. Thats probably when this $2.99 paint job was put on the car too. It actually suffered 2 wrecks, maybe at the same time. One front left, one back left. Maybe rearended and pushed into another car? The headlight on the passenger side has junkyard marker on it and the fender on that side used to be red.

Tank PSI check valve? So there should be something connected to that hose? The hose just dumps off into nothing. I can see no evidence of anything missing though?

 

OK, I see from this thread

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...e-diagram.html

I am missing the little white thing.

so I'm eliminating the charcoal canister at the front of the car and the hard line that runs up there.

What should this look like? Cap the evap line off then run that little white pressure valve on the pressure line? Or should I cap the pressure valve and run a tiny air filter on the evap line to let the tank breathe?

OR cap the evap line and run a tiny air filter on the pressure line to let the tank breathe?

Doing the first one lets air out but not in?

Doing the 2nd lets air out but not in as well.

Doing the third lets air in and out.

 

You can build your own 8.8 fairly simply (and cheap).
use one from a mustang or ranger, get a used up 10 bolt from an 89-up F body as they have 28 spline axles which fit in to the ford 28 spline carriers.
Heres the basic run down:
Take axle shafts out from ford axle, cut the tubes a few inches out from the pumpkin.
Cut the tubes off the 10 bolt at the pumpkin.
Slide 10 bolt tubes in to ford tubes (the 10 bolt tube OD is slightly larger than the ford tube ID, but you can get them to fit with some careful grinder work), weld them in to place at correct angle/distance.
Then fab up a T/A mount or get a welding shop to weld a "hiltsy" mount, or use a kit that turns the mustang rear suspension in to a torque arm style (maximum motorsports I believe) and make that fit.

I was going to do this until I learned my 87 has 26 splines and now I'm doing a ZR2 blazer axle swap which I should be starting this weekend (essentially cutting my suspension mount points off of a 10-bolt and welding them in the right spot to the ZR2 axle and then making my own T/A mount).

Take a look around a pick'n'pull, I found a full set of LS1 brakes (I mean every single piece) for $50... Not much different than a C5 set up... A conversion that would cost me over $1000 (I'm here in Canada) will cost me $200-$300.

 

You still need to use the return with the corvetter FPR/filter, feed to the filter, return to the tank and feed to the fuel rail

 

Right, as I understand it only feed goes to the front of the car. Return only has to go to fuel filter, right?

I seem to recall LSx truck motors have 2 lines at the engine, but from memory the car fuel rails only have 1.

I dont have an LSx car anymore or I'd check how its setup. Everything has been through pictures.

 

Depends on the year of the fuel rails, 1st yr ls vets have a return line.

 

From the interior dye perspective, i've used.




you can buy it here, or at wal-mart

 

HPP December 1989 has an article "Building a Better Firebird" that goes into suspension a bit.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0...m95cEhCU3pGWTg

 

Yup, have all those "old" mags, great info in them too.

 

I'll likely get an LS6 intake and LS1 fuel rail that only has 1 feed, then use the corvette FPR filter at the back of the car. This seems to be the simplest way to do it.

The fuel tank has some RANCID smelling gas in it. The stuff is deep orange. How long has this car been sitting up?

Mandatory training for work has forced me to book a hotel room, so I'm not able to work on the car until they reimburse me. This literally took all my spare cash for 2015 at this point.

I'm looking at using those anodized AN fittings to run from the tank to the FPR/filter and to the return line. Any particular brands I should look for? I'll use the braided SS hoses I guess.

I'll also use one to feed the fuel rail up front, and run the factory line from the back of the car.

I broke the line clips taking them off the lines,so I'll need to buy new ones.

I still need to decide what to do about tank venting. My thought is to use an AN fitting with a plug in it and plug up evap, then use the vent line and run a flex hose up toward the filler neck with a small oil breather filter on it to let the tank breath but not overflow. Thoughts?


I'm likely going to use SEM colorcoat vynil dye on my interior parts. Landau black on the panels that are black and Graphite on the center console. I'll likely leave the steering wheel and the gauge cluster trim alone, unless the graphite is a severe mismatch.

 

Somethig to think about, the SS braided line needs to be replaced every few yrs.

 

Well, what can I get another 26 years out of? Plain rubber hoses? Doesn't matter to me what it looks like. I just thought those SS hoses were going to be reliable.

 

Are the stock lines rusty?

 

I need to have the lines run a different path from the sending unit to the filter since I'm doing the LSx project.

The main line to the front of the engine I'll re-use.

 

The 4th gen has the same floor pan as a 3rdgen, check ou how those lines are ran. If you use a 4thgen tank, things will fall into place.

 

I plan to re-use the factory tank and use a new factory style sending unit.

I feel like this is a simpler solution than trying to make a 4th gen tank fit, or trying to find one when I have this one sitting right here.

I dont want to deal with the fuel gauge reading incorrectly.

I just need to figure out venting and the best way to reconfigure the fuel lines.

I'm kind of surprised those braided fuel lines are worthless. I see them a lot at car shows. Why would people use them if they only last for as little as 2 years? The rubber hoses on this car are likely 26 years old. If those will work an dhold the pressure I can just do that with old fashioned pipe clamps. I just thought AN fittings might be easier to service. Pipe clamps are a pain.

 

Braided lines aren't worthless, they just need inspected and replaced (for safety).
A lot of people with the cars using them at shows don't have a clue about having to replace the line. They think its pretty or makes it look more like a racecar.

 

I dont know all the years, but yeah the trucks had the FPR on the rail, so they used a full length return. Most of the cars had the FPR in the tank or in the filter, so the return is very short.

Honestly, if you're going to replace the sending unit for the stock metal tank you can use that money for the fuel level board for a 4th gen tank. "Fitting" the 4th en tank is no more than trimming the fuel filler hose. The outside dimensions of the 4th gen plastic tank are the same as the 3rd gen tank. There really is no down side to the swap of the tanks. If you're going to buy new lines to go from the tank to the vette fuel filter, that is a wash on cost and then there really is only one more wire to hook up for the tank, the ground for the level sender since the tank is plastic the level isn't grounded through the tank.

I am actually going to use the stock 3rd gen hard line from the filter, and the hard plastic and metal lines from the 4th gen tank with either a stock 3rd or 4th gen filter on a 4th gen plastic tank without the need for all the expensive AN fittings. You really just need a few adapter fittings, and a push connect to AN fitting. I think i'll be under $40 for the fittings, I would have posted how I am going to do it, but I lost the metal lines from my 4th gen tank in my house somewhere, I actually have 4 projects going at once.

Also if you use the stainless line with the Teflon sleeve and not the rubber hose, that will outlast the car in terms of breaking down. It is a little more expensive, but the cost over time is less. I have been buying pre-made lengths from Fragola because putting my own fittings on over the stainless braid with the Teflon is kind of a pain and I was tired of getting poked in the fingers.

 

I ws trying to avoid the 4th gen tank because my 3rd gen tank has a hard metal filler neck, and I dont know what to do about the charcoal canister and all that. The 4th gen tank has some kind of sensor or solenoid on it for evap and venting and I dont have the wiring for that in a 3rd gen.

I dont want the car to be a rolling bomb due to tank pressure or get water in the tank when I go through a puddle. That's why I thought I'd just put a crank case filter on a tube up the same line as the filler neck so that the tank can breathe as it needs to wiothout letting water or bugs into it.

I want this to be as hassle free as possible. I dont know anything about these evap and EGR and emissions systems. I just know a tank needs to be vented so that it can breathe.

 

You can pull the hose off the solenoid to the charcoal canister on the tank and connect it to your stock hard line to the stock evap system if you want. You don't have to connect that pressure sensor, that is for the 4th gen evap system. I plan on making that work in my car when I get to that point.

No possibility for a rolling bomb, it has a blow off valve for over pressure. And the tanks usually develop negative pressure. I didn't have all that hooked up before and every time I would fill up it would always suck a ton of air when I would take the cap off.

A tank swap isn't rocket surgery. The hard tube on the filler is a hindrance if you ever need to drop the tank again. IMO the separate filler and the fact it's plastic are the best features, don't have to worry about rust. Also the 4th gen plastic tank has a bucket and prevents starvation at low fuel levels, plus it keeps the pump covered at all times so it won't tend to overheat

 

Well it also gives me the fuel sensor problem, and the biggest problem.. finding and buying a 4th gen tank when I have a fuel tank already thats just fine. (I'm in GA, we dont have a rust problem.)

The starvation thing is concerning to an extent but the 89 had an electric pump too? Was that just not a problem because of the lower pressure? It looks like it has a sump in the "back" of the tank where the sending unit sits.

I am not planning to re-use the evap line. There's nothing in the front of the car to connect it to. Someone took all of that out.

If I can just use a small crank case oil breather filter and run a breather line up above the tank, then cap everything but that, the send, and return lines, that should be the simplest solution, no?

 

Sorry, I thought you had a plastic tank and were making excuses not to use it. The level sender is not a big deal.

IMO the best reason to use it is the fuel bucket. All the OEM are going that way now, for good reason. You can go REALLY low on fuel without starvation, but on the 3rd gen tank you get to 1/4 tank and you can have problems with extended lateral G's. I have a problem in my 92 with the baffled tank when I get to 1/8 tank or lower just going around a mild turn, I don't think the 89 tank is even baffled

I bought the first plastic tank because I HAD to have it once I found it out it fit like stock. Then I stumbled into two more without doing anything really more recently, so I plan on using them in both my cars because they are just better all around. They aren't hard to find, but if you don't have one then go for what you have. I understand project creep and not wanting to go there too.

 

I could find a plastic one no problem I imagine, getting it out would be a lot more touble though.

The biggest concern tome really is the sender.

I usually fill up at 1/4 tank anyway, but I dont want it starving.

There's some kind of baffle in the tank, I'll try to get a pic.

I was reading to day about vented fuel caps. I wonder if one of those might work and I can juist cap every line except the send/return lines?