Went to the track for the first time today. Couple of thirdgens up there(surprised). Anyway, there is '91 RS with terrible body repair and a carbed something or other, he'd never say. Well he lines up next to a new Neon(power adder), yeah, he got owned. RS went 14.87 and the Neon went 13.33! This is ridiculous. I felt kinda bad for the thirdgen, but then again, what can you say...

 

Hmm....you should step outside into the world a bit more. It was probably an SRT-4 and its not unusual for a thirdgen to lose to one. Even a 350 TPI.

Its the power of a forced induction. Want to go faster, cheap and easy up to a point. Just add more boost.

 

I get out plenty thank you. And yes it was an SRT-4, that's why I had (power adder) next to it. I know it's not unusual for a thirdgen to lose to one, depending on the car of course, but it just gives everyone else an excuse to down our cars.

 

Only the insurance companys consider a third gen a "sports car". So many are so underpowered that it doesn't take much from a newer car to beat one.

 

Good point.

 

of course it got owned those str 4' s go 14.1 stock and they really arnt technically a neon.They share some similatities but technically not a neon.

 

some people just aren't fast enough

 

Sad, but true. People ask how much horsepower I have, and seem confused when I tell them it came stock with 190. I'm confused why they think a car with out-dated, 20 year old technology should be faster than it is. You can't win 'em all, but you can still look cool

 

they are fast little $uckers although I would rather have a turbo buick anyday. Well at least it wasn't a honduah.

 

I work with a guy that has a 12 second SRT-4, and it's simply awesome. I'm used to seeing turbo'd Hondas, but this thing actually makes Torque, something that has eluded most turbo'd imports.

 

I saw one on slicks run a 13.0 back in the fall. There's also a early 90's rotted out Turbo Shadow that runs low 13's on slicks at the track, now then. No shame in losing to a faster car, just gives you a reason to keep modding.

 

The SRTs are fast cars stock or modded. I ran behind one on the highway and he wasnt much competition, but then again my car isnt stock.

I have only seen one at the track and I think he only went a mid 14, but they are fast and have a lot of potential.

But yes it is a Neon, every car goes through changes over the years, thats like saying the Fbody was not an Fbody necause it changed... it's still an Fbody, like the SRT is still a Neon! I hate when people say that because they are slower!

 

no for real according to chrysler they are not. I work at a dodge chrysler dealership and according to the mechanics they are not a neon at least chrysler does not want them to be considered a neon. Thats just what im told. I may be wrong though.

 

Same amount a Neon as the Cobra is a Mustang... in my eyes.

 

SRT4 = Neon
Evo = Lancer
STI = WRX = Impreza
Z28 = Camaro
Cobra = Mustang
Marauder = Grand Marquis
Camaro = Firebird
Supra = overpriced dyno queen

You could give literally a hundred more examples.

See where I'm going. Technically, they are the same. They are built at the same plant, with the same tooling, by the same workers. Same chassis/platform. They are just optioned differently.

 

the way i see it, is the neon was faster..........who cares if it is a neon, it is fast. My buddy has a neon, thats fast. He is NA and trust me, good enough to shut down some l98's, especially up top. At the end of the day he is not driving "just a neon", he is a driving a fast car.

This does give good reason to start modding, even though i havent really.

 

I agree, I hate when others say, well he is still driving a Neon...

Well that Neon just handed you your ***. Seems to be a lot of fast sport compacts these days yet there are some close minded people who wont accept them! Usually these close minded people have 14 and 15 second cars!

 

Like I said before I could be wrong I was just saying what I was told, point is they are quick stock and one shouldnt be ashamed to have been beaten by one just more encentive to get off the comp and go spend some time in the garage moding your ride.

 

The one good thing about the "neon" over the thirdgen is .... I hate to say it, but gas mileage! .. We can do all the mods we want to keep up but we will still not be able to pass a gas station.

 

I think the SRT-4 is actually a pretty good car. Granted i wouldnt touch a regular neon with a 100ft pole, but the SRT-4 gets my respect.

You know what doesnt get my respect.........every single VAN that exists on the road. I swear they are the most annoying damn drivers on the face the earth. Im sorry if you drive a van as your daily driver, but them boxed crappers **** the **** out of me when im the road. They are either way to freakin of a slow driver, or they drive like a maniac tail-gating your ***. Man i can write a book on the instances i wish i was in my GTA to tick them off. Too bad my small 2.3L Mercedes cant outpower those suckers to screw them back

But anyways with the SRT-4, i wouldn't care if i lost to one, only people who dont know about cars would turn that into a laugh cuz they probably think were supposed to have like 400hp stock cuz our cars look "cool", and the Neon is some POS with like 100hp.......you know what i mean.

 

the SRT-4 is a quick car, I have seen them run 9.30's in the 1/8th mile. My neighbors street Mustang runs low 9's.

No harm in losing to quicker car, we are still running a 305 and people still ask if it is really a 305!! Even having lost 2 tenths due to worn rings, we are still quicker than a lot of the cars. If we lose to a 400 powered firebird or big block Chevelle, so what. We will catch some eventually. It is just a matter of money. How much are you willing to spend?

 

You own a Trans Am...and you'd rather have a GN/T-Type/GNX than a Turbo TA? Did you forget about the TTA or what?

I've got a friend with a stock GN (changed injectors, chip, and shocks) that runs high 11's and gets 24mpg. You guys make it sound like your amazed by this SRT-4 thats 2/3rds the weight of the GN and runs 13.3. I don't find it that impressive. I can still walk all over every SRT-4 I've seen. Are you all running around with LG4's or what?

http://www.turbochargers.com/forumuploads/500hp.wmv I hope some of you are prepared for the next wave, the SRT-4 in the video has a dyno'd 500.1hp and 526.1tq.

 

ontogenesis


1) Why not? Whats wrong with a T-type? I already have a TA and love it. Its a keeper.

2) Totally aware of TTA's plus the fact they are rare. I can't afford one. . maybe you can?

3) The truth is STOCK for STOCK L69, TPI 305 and 350 thirdgens can not compare to the acceleration of a neon SRT4.


Yes the SLP Firehawk can wax it
Yes the PAS 1989 Turbo Trans Am can wax it

Both outside contractor buit cars which are technically non stock limited production run .

 

I see your point, and it is valid, stock for stock, we get owned. But I'm amazed that there are people on the drag racing board, that've had ATLEAST 12 years to upgrade to a real drivetrain, that are impressed by this.

 

The reality is that most people on this board haven't owned their 3rd Gen since it was new and can't afford to throw parts at them constantly. I bought my car in 2001 with 135,000 miles. The only mod, if you want to call it one was K&N's and it ran a best of 14.4. I've slowly worked my way down to the times in the sig as money has allowed. What amazes me about the Neon is the fact that it's an FWD econo car that runs 13's.

 

Question :

I wanna get to know the guy who's running 11's with a STOCK GN w/ chip, injectors and shocks...lmao.


Even with upping the boost, a GOOD chip, I don't see 11's. I've owned 3 of 'em...maybe all mine were dogs.

BONE STOCK my '87 GN went 14.20's. With traction, boost dialed up, and most of the cheap / free tricks, it went high 12's.

With a tuned chip, and better exhaust, it went low 12's.


Sorry I digress...


Anyway...I guess the average age here is too young to remember the FIRST econobox "muscle" that wasted TONS of V8's and so called "muscle cars"...

The Dodge Omni GLHS Turbo....


These are FUN FUN FUN FUN CARS....

They weight about the same as a go kart. Parts / engine for the 2.2 are DIRT Cheap, if not free

I know of two around here. One is BONE STOCK, low miles, it's one of the Shelby upgraded cars.. runs 14.20

Another one is a normal turbo version, RUSTY, different color fenders, and he's got about $2000 in the drivetrain...

It runs 12.1 all day long.

The expression on LS1 owners faces is priceless

 

There's a website for a 11 sec Dodge Caravan with a turbo 4cyl. I can't remember the address though. Even has a video from the track of the mini-van smoking a 4th gen Z. Too Funny!!!

 

That Caravan video is the funniest drag race ive ever seen. I get the most laughs when i show em to different people. Sometimes they ask me what special effects did you use to pull that off. They just cant believe a crappy looking van just smoked a Z28.

 

Thats the problem today, too many people dont believe stuff. In this day and age we should be very open minded. We have deisel trucks running 11s, vans in the 11s, stock 4 cyls in the 13s...

I dont see why people have a hard time believeing these things. Also it isnt that impressive besides the fact that it is rarely, if ever done, which does make it slightly impressive.

 

The car was a stock 3450lb (w/driver, no backseat, no jack/spare, no sound deadening) 87 GN with just over 43,000 miles, only mods being induction through the highbeam headlight buckets, home ported turbo inlets and outlets, turbo at 24psi (maxed), stock intercooler, stock intake, stock long block, 46lb injectors, 5gal of 108 octane, taylor 409's, custom prom (i mean all of it, not just "we'll bump your timing in four or five places") dual 3" w/cutouts, 90/10 fronts, 50/50 rears, ps airbag, skinnies and 28x12 nitto 555r's car ran 11.8 on october 25th '03 around 11pm with the converter locked, temp was 45 degrees, humidity was just over 60% b/c it'd rained earlier in the day. Intercooler and intake had been on ice for 45 minutes, cutouts open, 27psi in the rears, 45 in the fronts, swaybar off.

 

Not trying to flame, but this could be the cause of the confusion...

There is a slight difference b/w the two, but still impressive!

 

nothing was added except in the area of the injectors, chip and shocks...cept the wires. Maybe ya'll race differently than we do. *shrug* here, it's considered bone stock until the long block is changed.

 

Going back to what this thread was originally about...I wasn't implying that I didn't accept these cars. I was just saying that I felt bad that the thirdgen got wasted like that. Not to mention he had a sticker on his car that said, "*** created turbo lag to give V-8's a chance." Ok, you run 13's, not 11's, give me a break. I'm not close minded in the least. I accept and respect anything that runs fast, no matter how many cylinders. I just hate it when they are cocky like that. No matter how fast you are, there is always someone faster.

 

Getting your pants all bunched up, when did I attack you? I made a statement which affects Mustang, Fbody and every other car owner. YOU took it as directed at you. You made a post worried about an SRT, personally if you want to think I meant you exactly go for it, but dont let it bother you, and DONT take it out on me...

I run 13s, next year easy mid 12s, year after who knows, needless to say there are very few SRTs I have to worry about.

Grow the F*** up and learn to not take it so personal. The only reason you should, is if it directly means you, and judging by you attacking me it does affect you!



Let that soak in!

 

when did bowtie get his pants bunched up? you directed an attack toward him so he defended his views, and he did so in a level headed manner. No reason to spaz out.

 

Hmm I attacked him, really, I used his name in one of my posts, point me to it...

I made a GENERAL (meaning MANY other people) statement, and he attacked ME by telling me I only run 13s, and used MY name.

Nice try but it didnt work.

again...

 

Wow dude, take a chill pill. First off, I was not attacking you, nor did I use your name. I was implying that the NEON ran 13's, not you....regarding the sticker that HE had talking about giving V-8's a chance. I'd say you are the one who needs to grow up a bit, and chill out. No sense in starting a squabble over nothing.

 

Seems everyone tries to attack me on these boards...

So when someone does I take offense. Now that I read it you were talking about the Neon sorry about that. And I was talking in general and actually more about the Mustang idiots who say that (or anyone with a Mustang or Fbody who talks about Neons in that sense).

I hate people who cant accept other cars.

 

my son drives a 94 transam ,daily 12 second ride and it gets 28 miles to the gallon

 

I accept the fact that there are cars faster than mine.....but that doesn't mean I have to like it

If I didn't have this fascination/obsession with my car (and other sports/muscle cars), I don't know what I'd be doing right now.

So let's stop this pointless arguing, and let's go do some -->

 

It's all good. I wouldn't just bash you around bro. I was just defending my point of view.

 

Have to put mine back together first. After that though, I'm game.

 

Just a little bit of information for you guys, the website with fast turbo chryslers is www.thedodgegarage.com they have a 10 sec. reliant a few 11 sec vans. everything lebarons. i used to read all about that untill i had to get rid of my turbo shadow, it was a 1990 with 2.5 5-speed i put an intercooler on it and had the boost up to about 14ish and ran at the track with p185/65/15 street tires and peeling them off i smoked an auto mustang v8 with slicks+exhaust late 80's. i ran a 14.88@95mph that day, if i had slicks, mid 14's would easily been obtained because spinning like crazy. turbo cars are awsome but i feel that they are less reliable. but i guess it all matters on what kind of car it is. sometime this year im going to look for an old turbo 600 or lebaron something 4-door auto. so i can use in the winter and go run it if i want during this comming summer 14's is VERY Easy to reach. but as for getting beat by an SRT-4 it gets to you because he's probably sitting there thinking that the other driver doesnt know that he has 220hp sitting under his hood with a light car and thinking that you expect to beat him. if it was me id see the dual exhaust or the huge front air dam or the SRT4 stickers and know it was one and if i got my A$$ handed to me o'well, the best bet for you is to not even race if you are all down about losing. just dont be a ***** about it and take it like a man.....nowadays a festiva could come up and throw a stomp job on your a$$ and youd never know it actually had a small block ford in it.... if your fast your fast if your not, your not(like me)

 

Yea remember, we're talking stock to stock here. You can make a thridgen car 9 seconds. Can you make an srt-4, 9 seconds in the 1/4? I always tell EVERYONE that i'm going to lose the race. If I lose, well just like i said! If i win, whoa i guess i'm faster than i thought. Expect to lose to a new car thats turbo'd. If you put $ into your car and win, your 20 year old car justy won.

 

exactly, turbo cars=low money spent high hp gains=hard to beat on mildly modded car. i hope when my car is done(tomorrow) that ill be running some good times.

 

I think you get what you pay for....
The new srt-4's run 14.0's or so,for around $20,000..but lets see how they hold up over the years...thirdgens are running on 100-200,000= miles....How good is the bottom end,how reliable is the turbo /transmission...$20,000 is pretty cheap for a car pulling 13's these days...what corners were cut?
Maybe they do hold up for awhile..
But I think they'll be like every other turbo setup...You can get them to run low 13's to mid 12's with bolt on's and tuning and after that(like with the 300zx/supra )it will cost and arm and a leg to go faster...and when you blow something up,you'll get raped on repairs...I think it all evens out really....

 

OK guys:
In my mind, this is not a fair comparison. A 3rd gen is a part of automotive history, and each year and generation is the result of what was going on at the time, and is forever tied to what was happening during it's design. Sorry boys, but it is only slightly more modern a car than a '55 Chevy in the engine department. What do we expect?

The SRT 4 is a very fun car to rail around, but it is definately a Neon, and it has modern technology and R&D that did not exist when the 3rd gens were made.

So here is my prospective comparison. Price an SRT 4, ($20,000?) and use that to buy a 3rd gen, and put the balance into "modernization". Instead of comparing a stock 15 year old car with a brand new one, compare potential and grins per dollar. I'll take the 3rd gen every time.

Or, compare an SRT 4 to a current Camaro/Firebird (oops, GM dropped the ball on us here, never mind!)

Troy
So Cal

 

technology has made a 4 cyl. faster.... TPI came out 19 years ago. The same concept is still going on in the LS1.
The SRT is the second fastest dodge made in 2004.. a 13.3 is very respectable, and a RS with a 305 TBI going 14's is respectable also. It cost money to go fast. You can buy a 20 grand car and add 3 grand to make it run 12's .... or you can buy a 5 grand car and spend 3 grand and make it run 12's.....


third gens are the new classic

 

i forget to mention torque......

i don't think an SRT can put me back into the seat at 2500 rpm like my maro.......





torque wins the stoplight race.,

 

This may be true, but personally I'd rather spend $3500 or less, and spend the money to run 12's in a car that at least looks like it should have muscle. As opposed to spending 20k and even more to make it run 12's, and look like a bowling ball with wheels. JMO. You can spend way less then 20k and modernize a thirdgen fairly well. I'm not talking tv's in the console either. I'm talking good gauges, maybe some aftermarket seats, new paint, etc. Plus it's something that you can at least work on w/o wondering, wtf is that? Or where does that go?