Picking up my '85 SILVER IROC 5.0 LITER H.O. T5 car this weekend. EVERYTHING except the motor. Summit shorties..junk with muffler shop special into a flowmaster, Factory rear w/ 3.73 discs, dual snorkel aircleaner, B&M Ripper, Centerforce clutch, and some other Junk.
Also picked a vortec longblock from a friend.... $50.00!!! That's right, $50 for a 062 headed VORTEC longblock w/ spun rod bearing.

10.0-10.5:1 vortec 350, RPM Air-Gap 600cfm DP, harland sharp roller rockers1.6 with LUNATI Hydraulic roller .544/.560 232/242 110 lsa, bowl-blended & portec matched 062 vortec heads cut guides and spring pockets Comp 987 springs milled .010"
0 decked block 4vr flattops .040" gasket
Lakewood lowers with relocation brackets, 3.73, T5 w/ Ripper & Centerforce
Mickey ET STREET RADIALS on IROC wheels and a spare WC T5 that'll soon be G-Forced.
Hoping to have less than $2500 in an 11.90 car

 

I doubt you'll be able to launch it hard enough with a T5 to be able to get into the 11's (at least not very many times if you do), but you should be in the 12's.

And, you'll need to get real headers and exhaust before you can do either.

 

need some lt's!!!

 

yep, and if you stick, with the t-5, unfortunately the only longtubes for you is the hookers...which are $350 uncoated...kinda hurts the budget minded racer i know. anyhow, good job on the setup and i hope to see it run 11's before it's all over!

planning any weight reduction?

 

Not to be a stinker, but I'm not sure you'd get 11's out of that setup even if you hook on a hard launch. I have a 388 w/ AFR 210s and I've only managed a best of 11.85, and that's powershifting and 1.5XX 60's. Just hate to see you set yourself up for disappointment.

Speaking from personal experience, you should be able to launch as hard as you'd like with the t-5 (I've launched @ 6K countless times on a stock WC t-5); it's the powershifts that'll lunch the t-5. Mine destroyed third gear, and if you search around on the forums, you'll find that's the weak spot on the t-5.

And I'm waiting for my G-force to show up. And waiting, and waiting. . .

And don't get me started on the drag radials. If you haven't purchased them yet. . .don't! Stick cars with good power are useless on drag radials. Again, personal experience. I have a pair of Mickey street radials, and they suck. Search the forums for this too and you'll find a quote from an MT VP stating something to the effect of, "the drag radial is not the best choice for a manual car making decent power. For people with this set up, we recommend our ET street."

You'll find some guys bragging that they're pulling 1.4XX 60's on drag radials. . .only problem is, these guys are running automatics.

 

see, what i don't get is the guys running tranny brakes and running 1.2x and 1.3x on drag radials with no issues...i say it's a problem with your suspension.

 

. . .but I cut 1.5Xs consistently on 10" slicks.

 

yes, the soft sidewall of the slick is absorbing the shock instead of the suspension working correctly. with the stiffer sidewall of the drag radials, you need to fine tune the suspension.

what do you have done to the suspension?

 

Just a Jegster adjustable torque arm.

But if drag radials should work just as well on a manual, what would be the motiviation for M/T VP Ken Warner's comments (via Brutalform)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw66nova
i know guys with 5500 rpm stall converters and tranny brakes hookin' just fine on these tires. wouldn't you think that would hit it just as hard, if not harder, then a stick car?


Yes, I would believe the same thing. Pretty weird that one of the manufacturers' people would make an excuse for their product. In Dec 2005, Car Craft, page 63, in "whats your problem", M/T VP Ken Warner says it. He says, QUOTE "The radial is a great choice for launching vehicle with an auto trans, unfortunatley they will not work well on a stick shift car such as yours". He goes on to say, "ET street tire, are much better suited to absorb the intense forces of a stick car launch, and will allow you to properly hook up, where as radial tires, reguardless of air pressure or compound, are not so forgiving". Sounds like a **** poor excuse to me, AFTER consumers have already purchased them. "but the fact is, you wont be able to hook your stick shifted car on them no matter how hard you try". How about that! Right from the companies VP!

 

Drag1LE, I dont know what cam you are using, But a 388 with AFR 210's better run at Leat BOTTOM 11's, More like 10.85, NOT 11.85. Thats a SICK motor. It needs help.
If guys can go Bottom 12's with the XE274 and UN-ported Vortecs, I can go 11.9X with the Lunati Hyd. Roller & Ported Vortecs.

Matt, Hedman LT's with a Slightly dimpled collector will be going on with a X-pipe and Maybe some Flowmaster 40 series or Bullets.
My buddy fabbed me a Dual Hump X-member.....
If anyone else is interested in a dual-hump x-member we can do them for $125 shipped.

 

cool, i know they work with modifications, but i wasn't sure about your fabrication skills and sure enough didn't want to assume...when you get the exhaust made up, make sure you post some pics...

 

And you'd probably ought not to give the "sick" line to several others on this board running mid-to high 11's with 383/388 setups similar to mine. Good luck with that 11.9X. You're going to need it.

 

he's trying to help, not be a tool dude. i went 12.16@110mph with a much tamer combo than you with no lca relocation brackets and an open diff (ment for some pretty soft launches) so with a real launch i know it would have gone much faster.

350 .060" over
10.2:1
113 casting aluminum heads with mild bowl blending, stock 1.94/1.5 valves w/ backcut
238*/248*@.050 .480"/.500" 114lsa solid cam
4000stall converter, 700r4 3.73's 3300lbs. race weight (with driver)

 

So you're really agreeing that my N/A 388 ought to be running 10.85 on motor. Wow.

 

it should be in the bottom 11's anyhow. i mean, my combo was much milder, yet nearly as quick...

what is the race weight? maybe because you couldn't powershift with the t-5, that was what was slowing you down? just trying to help. but a 388 cubic inch engine with AFR 210's (combo sounds very simliar to my new combo) ought to run low 11's/high 10's. what are the specs on the cam and also what induction system/exhuast are you running? what is the altitude the track is at?

 

Think about this though Matt:
If your car was full weight like mine (and maybe drag1LE's) it maybe would have went 1/2 second slower. Your 12.15 would become a 12.65. Take that 12.65 pass at your very low DA track in Warner Robbins and move it to Saskatoon where I race at a moderate 3000' DA and on pure asphalt and you'll be back in the 13.0 range.

He may have more left in his combo (and me in mine) but there is more to it than you guys are leading on to. You aren't comaring apples to apples.

 

Not to mention the 600 DP will be replaced with a 750 MIGHTY DEMON after awhile.
AND.... I am better than average when it comes to banging gears.
For Example, How many people do you know that can pull a 1.85x and a 1.835
60' on the 2 and 3rd pass on a sh*tty, UNprepped track 30-35 psi street tire on a 1995 CBR600F3 and continue to 7.43 & 7.36 both a 97.6mph with only 1-tooth down frt, D&D pipe and jet kit. Most guys with this set up cant get below 1.95 on the 60'. Had I dropped the tire pressure to 20psi and had VHT, that would have been 1.7x 60's.

Havent had stick car to track but can launch the hell out one on the street with minimal spin and no bog.

 

that's why i asked the weight of the car and the altitude of the track he was at...that way i didn't sound like i was totally ignorant of what effects the performance of the car.

 

Yeah but you only posted that after you had posted comparing the performance of his to your old 350 combo.

 

you know, at the time of my 12.16 pass, i wasn't as light as i am now. then i was right at 3300lbs with driver. the pass i made with the 305 that's in my sig was at a 3170lbs race weight...so i wasn't THAT light, lol!

 

Full weight. Nothing done to reduce weight.

Solid roller: .260/.272; 645"
11:1
Victor Jr.
Holley 750 double pumper

Track's in Iowa. Elevation? Hmm. . .I really don't know.

But gee, the car runs really well.

Wasn't trying to be a jacka**, but when someone tells me the motor's sick, when I know it's running pretty darn good, well. . .

Anyhow, I was just trying to give some honest advice about the drag radials and the t-5, because I've been down that road.

 

Drag1le, with that cam, that motor SHOULD(at decent level of elevation) run in the 10's with 3100-3300lb RW. You need to know your elevation and find out what that corrects to. Around here, that car at 3200 lbs would run 6.90's EASY, probably 6.80's in the 1/8.
The ET STREET Radial will hook like a mother *****r in any car provided you a DECENT suspension.

 

the jegster torque arm puts way to much shock to the sidewall of the drag radials and makes them spin. put the stock arm back on with lca relocation brackets and drag radials and you'll hook. then put a full length tubular torque arm (like those from spohn and BMR) and you'll really have something. then if you wanted to go to slicks, the car would work just that much better.

 

Well, like I said, the car hasn't had any weight reduction so. . .its over 3400 lbs. w/me in it.

And. . .the mean elevation of the state (it's pretty flat) is around 1,100 ft.

Hey though, I appreciate the suspension tips, and I am strongly considering them (thanks mw66), but man. . .6's in the 1/8th, 10's in the 1/4? I know she probably has a little left in her (a tenth or two), but I'm thinking someone's full of boloney.

But. . .I don't want to make any enemies here, so let's just agree that you say potatoe and I say potahto, and we can stop the wizzing competition.

 

lol, sounds cool to me.

and for the record, Silver Dollar Raceway (my local track) is only about 300ft. above sea level.

and your only about 100lbs heavier than i was at the time of my 12.16 pass, so say i added 100lbs, thats a 12.26, though i'm a bit better elevation...so i guess i could see at 3400lbs and your track that i would have been in the 12.4-12.5 range i suppose.

when i put the big motor in now though, it's gonna be a RIDE! 3120lbs race weight with me in the car is the goal. so far it's been 3170lbs...and i added 40lbs. since then (put the back seat and bass tube back in...and they are staying in...car has full interior minus HVAC) so it's sitting pretty at 3210lbs race weight...so between the car and ME i have about 90lbs. to loose. i weigh in at a hefty 260lbs (i'm not really fat though) so if i could loose say 40lbs, i'd be pretty happy.(and it'd be much easier to take 50lbs out of the car rather than the whole 90lbs lol!)

 

Ok well get this, 413ci with stock replacement cast DEEP dish .060 pistons(9.5:1)with Performer RPM heads, RPM AirGap 750 holley with Proform body Harland Sharp 1.6's, Lazer 254/261 @.050" .535/.552 (.571/.589 w/ 1.6's), 3300lbs RW, Southside suspension kit, 4000 stall TH-350, 9 inch w/ 4.56, 28x10.5 slicks with skinnies, 7.0's-7.20's @93 on a high 1.4x 60' spinning.

 

that cam NEEDS more compression(like 11:1)...then HOLD ON BABY!!!

 

I suppose this might be possible in a magazine, but I doubt you'll see it with this combo. With those heads and only 350 ci, you're going to need juice to get there. Also, (after spending years dag racing 5 speed third gen cars), I can say that your T5 transmission will easily outlast your 7.5" rear end (axles). If it were me, I would put the (G Force) money toward a 9" Ford. Don't get me wrong, if you picked up a 5 speed car w/extras and can put together a rebuilt 350 all for a total of less than $2500, you're doing something right. I just don't see it getting in the 11's NA. Prove me wrong.

Not a fair comparison here. A brake is easier on the hit than a clutch car.

A drag radial is completely wrong for your application. Regardless of suspension mods, a heavy, high horsepower car (maybe not you) will need a tire with some sidewall. A 29" tire at least.

Even though you currently have a short time that is good for a 10.XX car, at 3400#, a 10.90 car is going to need over 500 hp at the wheels, you don't have the heads to do this NA. And as previously mentioned, any off the shelf headers are going to to limit you as well.

The Professor

 

I think I'm done listening to any of your advice, that is a very ignorant statement about someones car that you have never even seen in person.
After as much time and money that he has invested do you really think that drag1LE is going to start removing and replacing parts solely on your opinions.

 

guess you didn't read the rest of my posts where i said that weight, elevation and DA could have played a big role in his results compared to mine...oh well.

never once did i claim i know everything about drag racing...but based on my experience, i can tell you what works to get the car hooked up...

 

just my 2 cents but your going to spend more $$ getting those vortecs rebuilt, and ported, along with screw in studs( or pinned studs) valve springs then there worth when you could put a very small amount of extra cash and get a better aftermarket head, vortecs are only 170cc runners anyway, lot of testing has showen going to bigger valves also hurts flow in the heads also, you have some work to get that cam to work, factory the way they sit 480lift is max. but just my 2 cents.

 

YOU may have to, But "I" Wont! My good friend John(person with the afforementioned 86 IROC with the 413ci, now 434ci) has all the tools necessary to do the Valve job, Cut the guides, & Cut the spring pockets. ALL of this work WILL be DONE for LESS than $100. He is like a grandfather to me. I know another guy who will mill the heads for $30 provided they are bare already. Comp 987 springs- $83. Mild bowl work -FREE by ME. Already have the studs, Machine work thats another $30. Less than $250 in my heads, including the intial cost-$50 for the LONGBLOCK!
I can build a complete 383ci from carb to pan right now for less than $1200. So tell me WHERE for a "FEW" extra dollars can I buy a GOOD set of aftermarket heads. I say a few extra dollars is MAAAYYYBE $250. So where do I buy a good set fo Iron eagles, PRO1's, TFS's, OR AFR's for LESS THAN $500?

 

take a chill pill dude, no-one knows what you have access to or your capabilities. he's just trying to help educate you if you hadn't already been...

 

[QUOTE=mw66nova]take a chill pill dude, no-one knows what you have access to or your capabilities. he's just trying to help educate you if you hadn't already been...[/QUOTE


Everything was stated in previous posts. I dont need to chill I just Caps certain things to make sure they are not looked over. I am in no way mad or yelling. My pricing of $2500 for the Whole car include, suspension, tires, timing chain, bearings, main studs, head bolts, windage tray, etc. EVERYTHING.
And another thing to add to your and my opinions of what an AFR210 headed 380+ inch motor should run, LOOK at IHI's car at 3557 lbs. and LESS cam than Drag1LE's car. - 10.98@122mph.

 

yeah, i know what your saying about IHI's ride...i still think drag1le's got more in the combo...we'll see, lol!

i hope you get the car to act like you want! i'm focusing on getting my 305 in the 11.9x range n/a. though i've got more money in my combo and probably weigh less..

 

since you can get them done that cheap i would run them, also if you look around you can find cheap heads, i got 500 in my sportman 2s, ported and rebuilt but its the same thing i am good friends with my engine builder, so he hooks me up on the stuff. i was going to run the vortecs when i was first planning my build, but didnt want to try and fight them to work for my cam. but there is guys getting those heads to work very well. good luck and cant wait to hear some 1/4 times.

 

Thats a good deal on the sportsmans. Yeah I kinda gotta run the Vortecs seeing how I got the longblock for $50.
Besides, when its all said and done, its "Just a 'Stock' 350 with a cam and intake". Stock 5 speed & stock rear end gears(3.73)_HO car.
the heads are stock to the block I'm using with a stock rotating assembly.