With a fully tubbed third gen camaro. Perfer to do it with a 350 if possible. How much power would i need to make to run low 6's in the 1/8? Im also talking fully gutting car also. Just curious , thanks.

 

Give or take 600hp, alot will depend on combo since evertyhing comes into play other than just the engine alone.

 

A long time buddy of mine has a 88 Camaro with a stock bore 350, stock crank, 13/1 hyper pistons don't know what cam he is running, very well massaged heads. Anyways it is very well tunned, and runs 6.90s with a glide. It's not a tubbed car, stock modified suspension. He is going to back half it this winter because it isn't consistant enough for bracket racing. It would be much easier to do with a larger stroke engine. They tend to have more torque, and torque is what gets the car moving. Or juice the 350 if it's built for it, and you have the cash. Don't see many bracket racers using the juice though in my area. Or turbo it. For what it cost, a bigger engine will come out on top.

 

too much inconsistencies on average to try to race brackets with a power adder, if you want o just go fast, power adders are the only way to fly. If you want to actually race the car for money at a dragstrip, it will be a completely different set up since unless your very rich, or sponsored, you will probably never be the faster car in the class.

 

and in a "bracket race", being the fastest car in the class doesn't mean you can go rounds. Blowers have a better consistency that NOS or turbos since they operate on a 1:1 ratio with engine rpm.

Taking as much weight out of the car can be easier and cheaper than trying to make HP. The amount of HP required to go faster goes up exponentially the faster your go. A 15 second car adding a 150 HP NOS shot should run low 13's while a high 12 second car adding the same 150 shot may not get into the 11's.

There comes a point where you can't make the car substantially any lighter and increases in HP gets more and more expensive.

If you want to go fast just for bragging rights, use a power adder. If you want to go fast and bracket race, build a high HP engine in a light vehicle. As stated above, you'll need roughly 600 hp to get deep into the 6 second 8th mile range but that depends how far into the 6's you want to go. That won't be easy or cheap with a 350 SBC without using some sort of power adder or you have the car extremely stripped and gutted.

A 6.99 ET means the car should run 10.90 in the 1/4. Providing you can get down to a 3000 pound race weight, you'll need to get 460 HP to the wheels to do it. At a more modest 3400 pounds, you will need about 520 HP to the wheels to run the same ET.

To get a 6.5 ET with a 3000 pound race weight, you will need to get about 570 HP to the wheels.

I just started dipping into the 5 second range at the 1/8 mile mark. It took a long time to get there and I don't use any power adders.

To run 6.0 with a race weight of 3000 pounds, you need to get 723 HP to the wheels. Very expensive or almost impossible with a SBC without a power adder.

 

stout 406 build that makes 450 on motor and add a 200 shot. should get you in the lower 6's

my 383 should go higher 6's and i'll find out tomorrow And its mostly full weight except right now the interior is out but i have both seats in and roll bar in now so the weight should be the same as the last outing without the cage. I went 7.03 with a 1.65 60 foot haha. Once i crack those low 1.4's if the rear holds up, i'll be well into the 6's

 

geared for an 1/8th mile you will do better, but are you trying to run a 6.0 class, or just fast enough for bragging rights?

 

around 400rwhp and a 200ish shot maybe....

 

Knowing how much the car weighs can give you a better estimate on what you need to run low 6.'s You'll have to spray a good built350 to go low 6's unless the car weighs 1900lbs.

 

Running quicker than 6.39, you'll need to add a full cage which means you need to add weight. Since you said it was back halved, I have to assume it has at least a roll bar if not a full cage already.

Although I run a BBC, my car is about as gutted as I can get it. I doubt I could easily pull another 100 pounds out of it or even another 50 pounds. My race weight is 3045. When I did my back half, it only took 20 pounds off the car.

Without a power adder, you're not going to get such a heavy car into the low 6's with only a 350. A full tube chassis third gen can get you into the 2300-2600 pound range. If you're going to do that, you don't even start with a production car.

 

how much does the car weigh ? thats going to make a differnce on what you need....my 86 all steel except hood weighs over 2600 w/ B/B our b/s motor we were running was only about 500 hp on pump gas, no nos and ran 6.40's
Rob

 

An all steel production car that weighs 2600 pounds?? You car looks more like a tube chassis car.

 

I agree with Stephen, aint noway you got a factory 3rd gen even close to that weight, just aint a happenin. BUT if the car in your avatar is the one you speak of with a tube chasis, then i can see it, otherwise, nope.

but your right, less weight takes less hp to achieve the same ET goal, but i think the lightest i've ever heard of a completely gutted 3rd gen was still close to 2900lbs.

 

I ran 6.76 on a 1.45 60. I think i'm between 500-550 whp due to my approximate 3450 lb raceweight estimate and 127 mph traps. Not sure tho

to get low 6's you probly need a crap ton more power... maybe 600whp-650whp.

or alot less weight

 

did not say anything about being factory....it is all steel with exception of the hood...but thats it...tube chassis, lexan windows, alum int. and does weight 2600+ with a B/B....just started putting a sonny's 565 in tonight, been driver training all season with my sons, they have their licenses and now time to step up the program...Rob

 

My tube chassis Grand Am weighs 2840 with a glass hood and nose. Glass, moly, and a lot of aluminum might get you below 2500. But you better have deep pockets, filled with money. My buddy has a 70 Chevelle, all glass except the rear quarters and top. Mild steel back half, with a molly cage, most sheet metal is aluminum, and it weighs 2620 rw. The engine is a 406 with 658 dynoed HP on alky. In the summer heat it runs single digit 6.00s, good air high 5.80s. Only way I see a 350 running low 6s is to build it with very good parts and spray the crap out of it. But it won't be a bracket car. It takes a lot to go from 6.50 to 6.00.

 

FWIW....Ran my car across the scales this year at 2910 with me in it, so car alone is 2730.Granted it is no where near a streetable vehicle anymore, but it can be done. Goal for the winter is to try and get another 110 out of it, its not easy, but makes things alot easier on parts.

 

I'd love to get my race weight down to 2800 but that isn't going to happen without spending a whole lot of money. I almost scored a set of fiberglass doors earlier in the year but the seller screwed up and they never arrived. Still got a full refund.

If I really wanted to get into the 8 second range or lower, I'd yank my engine out of the car and stick into something like an altered. Have a race weight around 1800 pounds. 2200 max.

It takes lots of HP to go fast in a heavy vehicle. Trying to do it with a small engine and no power adder isn't easy or cheap. As mentioned above, if you're doing it to bracket race, stay away from the NOS and turbos. It's too hard to stay consistent. If you're running heads up, then go fast whatever way suits you the best.

Heavier vehicles also require stronger driveline parts. My car easily survives with 31 spline axles and a basic powerglide built for bracket racing. Increase the weight of the car or use a 3 speed tranny and 35+ spline axles are required.

 

nah, just takes good parts is all i'm 3720lbs roll'n down the track, aint nuthing changed driveline other than fluids since, well, ahh, never

If i did'nt ddrive this on the street and cruise around town and whatnot, i'd love to gut it and put the thing on a diet to pick up some time, but for now we'll just build bigger engines so long as my wallet allows it

 

my car was 2980 with me in it and maybe a gallon of fuel. i weigh around 160. it had carpet and all the interior panels in it aside from the door panels and console. power windows and stuff are still in it also. the rollbar is a fairly heavy 8pt. mild steel 1 3/4 tubing. full 10# nitrous bottle. i can still cut some more weight, though.....

stock front brakes are still on there, can drop 40lbs. or so going to strange.
stock fuel tank and huge fuel lines running to the front of the car.
very heavy torque arm mount on the 9".
rear bumper support is still in it, along with auto trunk pulldown.

i could put an LS1 in the car, and the stuff above, and it could be 2770ish with me in it. right now it has a stock LT1 shortblock and a 150ish shot. so far its been a best of 6.43@106 in the 1/8 and 10.14@131 in the 1/4.

 

Dang, you just need to buy my grinder, you'd be bottom 5's on pump gas in street car

 

you can get taht light with full interior?? jeez. I couldnt imagine getting below 3300 with my car with me in it and i'm only 160lbs. Maybe it could be possible

 

my other car is a 4th gen so i was amazed at how easy it was to get the car that light. i am in the process of getting another stock set of door panels back in it, and a 4th gen console to go with the 4th gen dash. when im done, the interior will look like a street car thats had a rollbar installed and kirkey seats.
i am seriously considering an LS2 for my future engine. it should handle my power goals, and its 100 lbs off the front of the car compared to an iron block.
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got a new set of GOOD heads last week, im hoping to drop 2 tenths or so with them! nitrous shot will grow an additional 100hp as well.
so it may go 6.0's and into the 9's with the little LT1. its a pump gas motor, but i dont have the ***** to try it with these stock pistons while on the juice. lol

 

my next builld i wasnted to do a boosted type lsx motor and i would like to keep aluminum block to keep it light but only if it can hold the power.

getting the car with me in it down to the 3300lb range would be fantastic

 

IHI...that why i cut all of the weight out....Started on this car in college....and on a college kids budget..LOL...taking weight out was free horsepower....

Now if I can just get my wife to let me spend some extra $$ on this thing...

 

I hear ya, at this point i just either need to
a: get a different car for track only use so i can gut, tub, and go fast on the cheap
b: tub this thing, lose the creature comforts to get the weight down
c. finally bite the bullet and get away from pump gas powered small blocks and step into a big cubic inch something or other

right now i'd like to do what's necessary and install a nice 555, 562, or perhaps 582. that way i can still get the performance i want on pump gas without pushing the envelope so hard. i'm not hurting this small block by a long shot since i shift it out at 5800 and only trap 6600, but to get where i want to be ET/MPH wise there is jut no way a N/A pump gas sbc and this heavy of a car will ever make that happen unfortunately I need to accept reality LOL!! but i would still like to get these heads fixed, a different stick put back in it similar to the first combo this engine had to see if i can get consistant 10.30/.40's out of it and then spray into the 9 something's

 

Most engines can easily be built to produce 1 HP per CID. Based on that theory, going from a 350 to a 454 gives 104 more CID and 104 more HP with nothing more that a displacement increase. A 540 on pump gas can easily produce 540 HP. Not going to be too many 350 engines that can make that claim without using a power adder.

The BBC engines have more potential to make more HP than what it would take to do the same thing with a SBC. A 600 HP SBC is a pretty serious engine (no power adder) while a 600 HP BBC is still considered mild.

 

yes and no, i cant seem to get this engine to realize that other than not enough vacuum to run power brakes, it still drives as easily as the old 388, it does run on the warm side compared to the old engine, it took me a loong time to get used to seeing the temp guage creeping upto 180* since before 160* was abougt max, and during the summer we all went on a steak cruise, 1 hour drive to a steak house and she did creep upto 200*, but other than that, it's a baby, small stick, so so compression, idles all day at 900rpm, since getting the carb worked over by Pro System the plugs no matter what mimic an EFI plug since they're always perfect regardless if i pull them after a weekend of crusing or after a pass, it's scarey but speak volumes for what true professional carb builders can do for ya.