mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

My first run was 12.79 @ 107 mph. What I don't get is that I have a very similar setup on my car as alot of the other guys on this site and they are running mid to low 11's. Look at my sig and see my setup up. Anyone have any ideas of what am I doing wrong. Also, I have not used the 125hp shot of giggle juice yet and waiting til it is running right. I also installed new plugs and they are already black. I had already changed the front jets to 75 and left the rear jets at 78, included in the jet change was also the accelator front and rear to 50cc. Timing was set at 34 degrees total advance. Did not get a chance to change the timing or increase my shift rpm's. Changed gears at 6200 rpm. I mostly run at Union Grove, WI..

84firebird383

Which track do you run at? WIR or Union Grove? What is your total timing? I picked up .3 and 3 mph with a similar set up as you going from 36 total to 40 total with my old 383 and track 1's.

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

Added more info to my original posting.

84firebird383

I would try bumping up the total timing.From my experience track 1's like alot.Like i said, I picked up .3. there is defently something else tho because I was running 11.2@121 wth a bent rod and I had less compression and less gear than you. My cam was a solid roller but it was also smaller.I think it was around248/252 duration @.050.Once I had it rebuilt it seemed much faster ,but I never got it back to the track before I traded it for my bigblock. I also think you can shift closer to 7000 RPM.I shifted around 6800.

TB2

iTrader: (1)

I agree, you should bump up that timing. How did your mph change when you changed the jets? Are you getting any hesitation coming out of the hole? Whats your 60ft times?

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

I increased my mph by 1 mph after changing the front jets and get no hesitation at all. Instant throttle response. My 60 was at 1.8x

84firebird383

Another thing to check is to see if the carb is opening wide open when gas pedal is to the floor. I picked up .5 seconds when my old 80 camaro was only opening 3/4 with the pedal floored.

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

That was the first thing I checked was to make sure I am getting full throttle by having someone hold the gas pedal down and me checking to see if the carb lever is all the way opened and it was.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Sounds like the tune is off abit. Needs timing adjustment and keep playing with the fueling.

What was your 1/8 mile ET and mph?

Also may need to shift that car abit higher than 6200 rpm. Try 6500-6600. Thats a nice setup that should have some power to mid 6000's I would think

Your 60 foots also need improvement, that car should dip in the 1.6's easily. May be lack of power due to some lack of timing in the midrange, and air fuel ratio may be off still. Keep playing with it

MaNiAk86

iTrader: (2)

def sounds like you need more timing. maybe your advance isnt coming in quick enough either which will make it lazier down low.

also a tunnel mounted torque arm will hit the tires alot harder and you should be 60' in the 1.6xxx

-hope to see ya up at gld sometime but my cars not out for the season yet

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Well, I'd have to say that you have a lot more combination than me and my car is a lot faster. Somethings definetely off.

If it were my car I would

1. Do a compression test. (my buddies car was running a seconed off and found the head gasket blown between the cylinders.)

2. take it straight to a qualified dyno person and have it Dyno tuned.

2. Use your dyno data to find out where your best shift point would be. (probably 6800-7000 with that cam)

3. Go back to the track and get you new timeslip.

Also...What is you elevation and what was the 60 ft and 1/8 time?

joeblue83

iTrader: (8)

yeah how are your 60 foot times, and are you hooking pretty well. When I went to the Grove they barely had the track prepped, and everyone was breaking loose.

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

Orr, I will let you know tomorrow, but I believe it was around 8.1x and 85mph. Also my goal was to start my shift point at 6200 and go up in 200 rpm increment, but I was sideline with an oil leak from my rear intake gasket seal and will be trying again this wed. at GLD and I am not sure what the elevation is at this track in Kenosha, WI.

I have used the tunnel mount TA from jegs and after 1 season, it broke up by the spherical end in the tunnel tray mount. Decided to go back to the stock TA as alot on members are using them on here with great success..

kowboy59

iTrader: (8)

fail on stock torque arms.

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

What TA do you guys use? What about the Jegster or Edelbrock TA in the tock mount location?

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Your MPH was 107! Your motor is down on power and a lot of it.
A torque arm is not going to add the 2 seconds and 15+ mph you are lacking

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

Ok, already did the compression test and all cylinder pressures were at 190-191, I am going back to the track wed if the weather permits and bring up my timing to 36 degrees and work on changing my shift pattern from 6400 rpms and increase by 200 rpms per run and start all over again at 38 degree total timing and just keep playing with my timing and shifting points.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

watch your plugs too to see how its doing under WOT.

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

Getting a new set of plugs tomorrow and I will keep an eye on them. The plugs in there now only have one run on the them they are black already. May have been from setting my total timing or sitting in the staging lane idling.

kowboy59

iTrader: (8)

make sure to bring fuel jets too for the carb.

88IROC350TPI

Yikes... your car has something seriously wrong with it to lose that much power with the parts you have. It's down well over 100HP timing and shift points aren't going to find that much power... I'd start by disassembling the carb and putting it back the way it came right out of the box and with a cam as big as yours you should definitely lock out the timing if you want to keep the plugs clean...

I think a combo like that should be running low 11's with no effort and into the 10's with some tuning...

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

I have kind of been trying to say that as well.

Dyno tuning would be this cars best friend.

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

Just so you guys know, I have not used my NOS sytem yet. It is mounted but not used yet until I get the car running right.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I would sure hope you didnt use that nitrous system yet. If you ran those times with the spray, i'd kill myself.

Tune that motor first n/a and then look to spray

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

I'd kill myself if it ran those numbers on motor.

DYNO TUNE!

88IROC350TPI

Absolutely but I still think there has to be something blatantly wrong with the car for it to run that slow... Something that no amount of "tuning" would fix. I think just going over the carb and ignition would find the problem and knock over a second off it's ET.... then go spend the money on dyno tuning.

z28freak84

BadaPwned

With my first dyno experience, I would recommend it to anyone.

Make sure you find someone who has experience reading the graphs and what not....I would have to agree with everyone else, your missing alot of HP.

My T1 heads liked 39 total timing and made the most power with it. You may want to try that also. Just watch for pinging.

One more thing, not sure if your carb's jets uses the same ones as a holley dble pper but if they are, yours are waay to small.

zacharyhorn

iTrader: (1)

So, how'd you do? I run at W.I.R. I haven't gotten out there this year yet, or with my new combo yet. Still trying to fix my oil leak...

TB2

iTrader: (1)

Are you foot braking? At what RPM? What RPM is the converter flashing at? That cam you got isn't going to come on till your way up in the RPM. Shifting at that low RPM is definetly going to hurt you alot. You need to try changing jets till you get to your maximum MPH.

BiGgE

iTrader: (2)

Are you sure about your timing mark? You may be thinking you are running 34 degrees total, but if your mark is off, you may be way off. Definitely verify your timing mark, or just throw away your timing light. I am a firm believer of tuning to what the motor likes anyways, not just to a number. Also, how much mechanical advance is in your distributor? I had a similar motor in a Nova I had, and you will be better off locking out your timing as was mentioned above. You have got plenty of cam to bleed off cylinder pressure at low rpm so you shouldn't detonate. Starting may be a problem, but your throttle response and low rpm performance will be tons better.

Also, as was mentioned above, I would go back to factory specs on the carb, and use that as a baseline after getting the timing sorted out. If that car is 3400 lbs with you in it, you should definitely see high tens on motor.

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

I changed my carb back to factory with jets, squirters and accel. fuel pumps and verified my timing with the degree wheel and found tdc and knew that my timing tab was off by 3 degrees and already had compensated for that. Ran today at the track and with timing set at 36 degrees and shifting at 6800 rpms, I increased my mph to 111 mph and et to 12.5x. RT time at .170 and 60ft was bad at 1.938. Still missing something though and can't quite figure it out yet. I also don't think that dyno tuning will pick up a full 1 second, but possible. I did have the heads milled down to 63cc and was told the intake should be ok and not need milling, just may have to use rtv for the intake front and rear seal. Could this be a problem?

84firebird383

Now you need to tune. Keep bumping timing up until your MPH slows down.then go to the carb and go up or down one side at a time until you slow down. Also Your should be 60' alot better.They shoud be in the 1.5-1.6 with your gears, converter and suspension.Thats a 1/2 second right there.What tires are you running? I still think there may be something wrong with mecahnically thats holding you back. A vacuum leak would slow you down,but I would think if it were from the intake you would notice it .

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Sounds a little better. Like stated, I'll bet if you can drive the car right and get a good 60ft there's an 11 seconed pass at 115 or so.

IF you dyno tuned the car they will play with timing and carb until it is CONFIRMED right. IT absolutley COULD find a seconed. They will not pull it down until it's right and if it's not carb/timing related chances are the problem will show it's face while up on the dyno.

I've been racing cars for about 11 full years. I have had grand nationals in the low elevens and nitrous cars in the low elevens and now my 383 car on motor in the low elevens. I have NEVER touched a carb for more than idle reasons. I put my car on the dyno and two hours later it is 100% perfect! plugs are great, it starts right up in the dead winter and best of all. It runs amazing numbers for what it is.

If your car was only a few tengths off I would say figure it out but you are a mile away with your combination and timeslip.

BadaPwned

I gained 50 HP from my dyno tune. You have more HP then me, you may be missing upwards of 50 - 100 if your that far off.

Just like everyone else says, have it dyno tuned. I will never do it any other way lol.

I have tried dicking around with timing and jets on the track, its totally worth going to a dyno.

Go to a dyno .....

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Mine started at 312 RWHP and was making no power after 5200 rpms's. After 8 jet changes and timing advancements I left with 375.

Dyno tuning is not just a suggestion. It is the answer to your 12 seconed car problem.

BiGgE

iTrader: (2)

Are you spinning off the line, or is it dead hooking?

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

I think it is hooking pretty good. Maybe a little spin, but I usually heat the tires up. In the water pit when I heat the tires up, the car will not move and just keep spinning unless I let up the gas pedal and then I move up from the pit and spin the tires more to remove the water.

BadaPwned

lol, perfect example. I did almost the exact same thing. I started with 290 rwhp, after going up 8 jet sizes I left with 340 lol

Only I still only have a 12 second car lol....go to the dyyynnnooooo

BiGgE

iTrader: (2)

If it is hooking, not spinning and you are running a 1.9x short time, that means it should be about a 14 second car at about 95 mph. Since you are trapping 111 mph with a 12.5 et, you motor is making decent power on the top end. MPH is an indicator of HP, and your combo ought to mph easily 120. While 9 mph is a lot, if you are lazy off the line (i.e. converter issues or otherwise), you will lose quite a bit even if you are making good power.

So, what rpm do you launch at, and what is the converter flashing to? Are you running vacuum advance? What initial timing do you have in the motor, and where does full advance come in?

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

I can only launch around 2000 rpms since that is about all my foot brake can hold. Not sure how to tell what my converter is flashing at and I am not running vacuum advance and have only mechanical advance in the dizzy. I have the copper springs(softest)and installed in the advance and should kick in fully at 3000 rpms by 23 degrees and never set my initial advance since if idles very erratic with that cam and set total advance @36 degrees. Also a new converter and I am wondering if the trans is slipping. Only thing done to it besides rebuilding with stock parts and a shift kit.

daverr

iTrader: (1)

my old setup is somewhat similar. at union grove my best was 12.4x@111. U need to upgrade to a solid roller . Also what model brodix track 1 heads??

BiGgE

iTrader: (2)

The converter flash rpm is what rpm the motor jumps to when you get off the brake and floor the gas. Do you know how much mechanical advance your distributor has in it? I wonder if the reason you are flat off the line is because you are running too retarded at launch. That is why I would suggest locking out the advance plate in your distributor and running a fixed timing. Every combo is different, so its just a matter of finding what yours likes. On a side note, I think that dynos are great for finding that last 1/10th that you just can't seem to get, but I do not see that at this point dyno time is needed. You are still at a point where you can make large gains fairly easily in my opinion.

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

Dizzy has 23 degrees mechanical advance and the heads are track 1 23 degree with 221cc. Also I believe my converter is flashing close to 3200-3300 rpms.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

What a terrible piece of advise.

BiGgE

iTrader: (2)

Hey, you stated your opinion earlier in the thread, now I am stating mine. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean you have to call me out stating that my opinion is wrong. The only advice I have seen given to MCBCHILD in this thread is "go get it dyno tuned". I just wanted to give him an alternative if he wanted it. There are plenty of cars out there that haul *** and have never seen a dyno.

Thanks.

BiGgE

iTrader: (2)

With only 13 degress of initial timing, I would expect that motor to be sluggish on the bottom end. If I were you, I would try either locking down the advance plate, or at least putting some larger stops in there so that you can run more initial timing while keeping the same total advance.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

You stated your opinion about dyno tuning and I stated my opinion about your opinion.

For what it's worth dyno tuning may find the problem to be axactly what your saying. But wouldn't it be easier to find that all out for certain instead of playing the "guess the problem" game? I'm never said dyno tuning makes horsepower. I'm simply stating that dyno tuning finds horsepower. And that is something that needs to happen with this car. He has a much bigger cam, heads, stall, cubes, compression and more suspension than me. But the car is running 12's. 12 seconeds! I will give my advise 1 final time in this thread.

From a guy who has an 11.0 car that is dyno tuned to perfection and has 1/2 the combination of the poster, Dyno tuning can make you a happy man.

mcbchild

iTrader: (1)

BiGge, what do you mean by larger stops? and daverr, do you really think that going to a roller setup will give me 1 second or more off my et? I didn't think that a flat tappet would be that much a difference.

BiGgE

iTrader: (2)

I have never messed with a Petronix HEI before, but in my MSD, there is a slotted groove that the advance plate rides in, and the post that the springs ride on has a bushing on it that rides in the slot. The bigger the bushing, the less total advance the distributor has. I would bet your distributor has something similar.