BigWhiteGTP

What is the fastest you can go with everything done to the L98, but keep the factory TPI completely untouched? No porting, no nothing. I'm curious if someone can hit 12's with a good H/C/S setup with a stock TPI intake. No power adders either. Just N/A bolt on bolt in mods.

Anyone got any timeslips or dynos?

**Please don't let this turn into a "why would you stick with TPI? Get a HSR or SR" thread or turn it into a "what if" thread. 350 Block/Bone stock factory TPI intake/fbody are the only guidlines.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Well, that in itself is a nonstarter. I saw a stock 350 TPI run 13.0's with nitrous (not sure of the amount of the shot). The wet shot retuned the runners for higher RPMs, and the cooling effect increased the mass air flow through the restrictive stock intake track.

It does beg the question, "What's the point?" Why would you spend all that money on H/C/S and then leave the parts on that kept it slow in the first place?

You could look to what NHRA Stock class racers run with the restrictions of stock cam lift, no head porting, and unmodified intake. No restriction on cam duration, converter stall, gears, weight distribution, etc. Typically F to J Stock, index in the 12's, national records in the high-10's/low-11's.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I think GTA matt went 12.90 or 12.8's with stock TPI with other bolt ons/supporting mods. I went 13.63 on bone stock L98 with just exhaust/converter/gear. More in it with tune and more racey type setup, as in light drag wheels, some interior weight taken out, no ac all that crap, more converter/gear if needed, etc.

Corvette guys may have gone faster. I know they have done 12's easily with full bolt ons (not stock TPI tho)

BigWhiteGTP

Whats the point of anything? To do it. That's the point. I want to know if someone has kept the TPI bone stock and done every mod to compliment it and how fast it can go. Seems like a valid goal to me. There is always a faster combo out there.

I'm curious if the Vette guys have ever done this.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I know they have some combos that go faster in the vettes than fbodys and it has tobe due to car weight but from what i've seen the cars arent much lighter if at all than our fbodys

Search around on corvette forum. I do believe they had guys go well into the 12's with stock TPI

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I suppose I don't have to get it. Like, "who has the fastest 305?".

If you're running to be as quick as possible, there will be restrictions on what else you can do, assuming you're running in a class that doesn't allow you to modify the TPI. That being the case, you couldn't do the heads, either. So, that part doesn't make sense.

If you're running in a bracket class, how fast you go is moot. Consistency is what you're shooting for. You probably aren't going to do heads, cam, and suspension and keep the TPI stock to achieve that goal, though.

If you're spending whatever is required to get the heads et al to get you going as fast as possible, then you'd be modifying the TPI as well.

So, I still don't get the point. Climbing a mountain "because it's there" makes more sense.

I believe TPI Vettes weigh more than 3rd gens. Exhaust routing is better on Vettes, though.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its sorta like the fastest bolt on LS1 or fastest cam only LS1 or even LT1. Those guys do everything but heads. They end up running a big cam in a ok set of heads when the could be more efficient and make more power with a good set of heads and milder cam.

Hotcam and great set of heads on a LT1 will outpower a large CC306 cam only LT1. Why do cam, lifters, springs/etc but not change heads too? Its sorta like that in my opinion.

I went for 12's with bolt ons 2 years ago and got it. I was very happy but i changed all but stock long block. Intake/rockers/pulleys, i had all that stuff. I could have just put a cam in it and the intake and been much faster than doing all the other mods. But that wasnt the point. It be fun to see how good you can get a stock TPI to run, but you have to be prepared for some so-so numbers and alot of money/time into the project

GTA matt

iTrader: (1)

I went a 12.85 with the stock intake and bolt ons only. Went a 12.27 with stock intake and afr heads, cc305 cam. Completely untuned WITH the stock chip. Why???? lol because I knew I would be switching to a MR and couldn't justify spending $500 on runners and $400 on a big mouth base. And my moates stuff hadn't come in yet and I was itching to get to the track.

In my TPIS catalog they have a dyno sheet of a motor with the stock tpi intake and runners. Made 420 hp I believe and about 500 ftlbs.

Corvettes wiegh the same as 3rd gens. Was racing with one a few years ago at the track and he was running just about the same as me, not sure of the mods though.

And of course the stock eliminator cars are in a whole different class......

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

pretty sure the guy with the "grenade" motor went low 9's with the stock tpi intake. using a pair of stock grand national turbos.

JERRYWHO

My 92 has gone 11.61 @ 115 all stock 350 TPI with headers, Yank 3600 SS converter, low gears, big slicks and a 200 plus kit, hit at the third yellow. 1.5 60ft time

Jerry

1qk4mula

[quote=five7kid;4265642]I suppose I don't have to get it. Like, "who has the fastest 305?".

I don't think you understand the whole concept of having passion for a certain car...

If everyone wants to build a car just to go fast then they would put the biggest motor they can find in the smallest car they can find and that would be the end of that..

F bodys came with v6s 305s 350s etc. Of course the 305 is not the best choice to spend money on and try to make it go fast.. But thats what GM put in these cars and thats what we choose to modify.

Can u imagine how boring it would be if everyone only modified a 350. Its fun to see something different. And its more of a challenge to make the underdog 305 as fast as other more capable engines.

89IrocZ350TPI

LS1 heads flow very well. I saw an cammed ls1 put down 400rwh with a full exhaust.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

buddy of mine put down 440rwhp with a STOCK CAM and ported heads in his '04 gto.
also gets 30mpg hwy and will go 500 miles on a tank of fuel.

tpivette89

weight of L98 vettes is identical to a L98 fbody

i believe the fastest "bolton only" L98 Vette is Vic 89' on www.corvetteforum.com. He went 12.4 at 108mph, but that was on aftermarket TPI intake peices

there was another guy, Neat, also on corvetteforum that went 12.9s on an untouched stock TPI intake w boltons. Hit it with nitrous and went 11.9. His car was a 6speed though

Corvettes have better exhaust components from the factory, and their aluminum heads allowed GM to be more aggressive in their tunes (ARAP bin). their higher compression (58cc heads vs fbodies 64cc heads, resulting in 10.0 comp) may have had something to do with it as well

Artisan

This was a Great Thread. I don't think it really matters if you can go 12's any more on a stock L98. The newest engine is 11 years old now. Cars have come so far too. To me if it can be done with a TPI "style" intake its still pretty good. i hope I can pull 12's in a couple of months. It will be on slicks or maybe drag radials. I can only say I still have a 350, with a modified factory plenum and base. The runners, cam exhaust are all are all aftermarket. Like I have said in other threads. The torque and power band are great for a little street engine. Considering how fast things are today I would be happy with some 12 second et's.

GreekItalianMan

It's sad but our cars were considered slow back when they first came out. With a little bit of work and tuning our cars can be just as fast or even faster than the cars of today. And god damn our cars can take a beating. I've seen some cars running on a stock motor at 300,000 miles. Nick fusco ran 11s with his formula with no cam or stock block touched. He did put a super ram in there. and new accel wiring,slicks. Ran 12.04 without gutting the ac or seats or anything. Changed the shocks to koni and put headers and ran 11.99 with a proper tune.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Considered slow compared to what? A top optioned f-body should have beat a similar mustang every year off the showroom floor, they just didn't have the reputation for cheap speed like the mustang because they cost significantly more (of course, they were faster, handled better, came better equipped...). Mustangs were also easier to make lighter and had a better parts aftermarket.

As far as how fast... well my '87 formula 350 went 13.50@99.9x with an SLP cold air, slp exhaust and a lot of tuning/tweaking (mostly timing and fuel pressure, if I remember right I ran the fastest time around 52-54psi fuel pressure and didn't see any difference in times with timing set in a rather large window, also that FP resulted in a rather rich idle). To be fair (and exactly answer this question) I did take the TPI apart and did cut back the aluminum egr or whatever bosses in the plenum right behind the TB, and I think I had a TB airfoil installed (don't remember now, if I did I pulled the one out of my '97 LT1 car to run it).

FWIW, if you matched the rest of the engine combination perfectly everything in the stock TPI setup flows just enough to make roughly 400hp (I'm actually a bit surprised by the previous 420 number, I don't believe that there is actually that extra 5% available, but I could be wrong)

GreekItalianMan

Well, I was reading a magazine and there was a story with an 88 GTA sitting in this guys basement garage(back in 1988) So, his friend wanted to take it out and do some racing in my area(Brooklyn) The guy that owns the car said everyone knows that she's too heavy and wont pass the 15 sec ets without some sort of upgrade. His friend said, don't worry about it. He took him and his buddy out to the car and had a 10 pound bottle of nitrous(NOS brand) He went to this famous racing spot in brooklyn after the cops left and found a grand national(turbo motor). Did 3 street races with him and hit the nos and destroyed the grand national. All of this was done bone stock everything. The grand national guy knew something fishy was going on so he looked at the car to see if anything was diff. He found the nos bottle and said "THATS WHY!" Then he said now it's my turn to run on NOS and the story ended there. The moral of the story, If there's enough nos you can go a lot faster even with stock trim

old z mzn

iTrader: (1)

I went 13.38 with bolt on mods, stock tpi

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

lmao... wtf?

these cars werent considered slow back then, by any means. tpi fbodies were only slightly slower than the vette. actually, the 89tta was dang near the fastest domestic production car in the 80's, period!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yep the callaway b2k optioned vettes were pobably the fastest right next to the GN and TTA

GreekItalianMan

If you read or watch a lot of the older videos or articles from motortrend, motorweek and those types. They all criticize our cars for being slow on the track but can hold their own on the street. I personally don't think it's true. I think our cars are pretty damn fast. With a good exhaust, and breathable manifold etc. Can blow away a lot of today's cars.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

why would they call some of the fastest cars available in the u.s. at that time "slow on the track"? what kind of track are they talking about, and what kind of cars were they comparing them to, ferrari's? compared to a new ferrari, thirdgen fbodies are pretty dang slow.

old z mzn

iTrader: (1)

when I bought my car in 1992 one of the main comments was they thought it was fast.... got pulled over at least 5 times just to check out the car.....13.9x
where fast at the strip....on musclecar day at the strip I was put right next to a 1969 z-28.....the car held it's own that day in the show and at the strip.

GreekItalianMan

I'm not disagreeing with you guys. I'm just saying that's what they said. Here's an excerpt directly out of the august 1987 high performance pontiac mag that i have "Hey Tony, you know that GTA we have out in the parking lot? Yeah Cliff, what happened, the tranny fall out or something? No, no nothing like that. I've just got a little assignment for you. I want you to take the car out for a little street action this weekend. But, cliff man, that thing ain't exactly what you'd call fast. Like it's real heavy man, and i dont mean in a spiritual sense. I'm talking tonnage here. Yeah, yeah i know all about it. Don't worry, i've got that handled. Whaddya mean handled? that car'd need a bottle the size of an LNG holding tank to really get with it. THe best i got from it was a 15.40. Then it goes on to say what he installed on the stock car. "I reached the car and there it was. Just what the doctor ordered. A complete NOS TPI throttle trigger nitrous system, and a note from the little guy upstairs. "Tony have a ball, try not to kill yourself and go waste some Grand Nationals" Then it goes on to the racing and all that(Too much to quote) But, this was the major opinion at the time. The only car they really liked was the TTA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0qw22Yy-VM

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

greek, do you have alot of those old high performance pontiac mags? when i bought my car it had a hppm tag on the front and i always wondered if it may have been in one of their mags. would have been probably early to mid 90's when the turbo stuff was completed. white '88 gta, gale banks twin turbo's, th400, 9".....

GreekItalianMan

Actually, yeah i got about 30 of them in my basement coldroom It's possible, i have highperformance pontiac from early 80s to well, latest one i think is 1998 before my dad stopped ordering. If the tag has an estimated year i could search that if i have the mag.

old z mzn

iTrader: (1)

anyone seen the car craft mag. with two 3rd gen z-28 called thunder and lightning on the cover page.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If you look at some of the specs on the 80's ferrari's they were rated anywhere from 300 to 390 hp. The lower hp 328/308/348 models were lower 14 second / high 13 second cars stock with 0-60 in the mid 5's. Thats on par with a L98. The big hp testarossa was a low 13 second machine..a full bolt on L98 could hang if there was an intake available at the time for the TPI.
Thats not too shabby. On a road course, the Irocz models could also hold their own.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

ya i have no idea what those guys were talking about. maybe he was comparing their stock "heavy" gta to the typical modded street racers they were going to be up against in the story, i donno.

GreekItalianMan

They were comparing it to the grand national with the turbo motor. When it gets a little warmer i'm going to head down to that spot that was said in the magazine and see if they still race. I'm on stock tpi but yesterday i found out that it has some serious limitations. When it got to 220 degrees the car lost a lot of power. When i was at the airfield it was windy and was a 53 degree day. I was going about 50 on the 1/4 and i was experiencing a ram air effect that cooled the engine down to 140. The car was insanely powerful and the k&n cai was made us of as i went up to 90. But, in street racing it's harder to do that because there wont always be a windy day or room to go from 50mph and up. You have to start from a dead stop. There's ways to make the intake more breathable. I'm just not sure what they are yet. I think if you do that, you'll have much better acceleration

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

You do realize that magazines say whatever it takes to sell their advertiser's stuff, right? 3rd gens are actually fairly light compared to both 2nd and 4th gens, typically a few hundred lbs lighter equipped similarly, and much lighter than newer cars. Fox mustangs were lighter but never made as much power, and at it's best, the GN only made the same hp as a 350tpi for 2 years, the rest were hot air cars and made less than most of the 305tpi cars, and this was in a chassis that weighed roughly 200-300# more than an f-body.

The only reason the GN's had such a reputation was that they were an unexpected combination and you could mess with the wastegate, spend almost no money on real parts and gain a ton of power which would require $$$ in most other cars.

demonband2000

i remember that same article, it had to be about maybe 88 or 89 when i read it

GreekItalianMan

Yes, it's the magazine from that year. I think 88. I have all the old high performance pontiac magz. I have the original dealer books as well. My dad kept them like brand new. He has from the bandit trans am which he bought till 86

oramac91

iTrader: (5)

ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

91-RS-B4C-fake?

Bolt on 1991 B4C .....
Best times ever.....

13.52 @ 99.95
13.588 @ 100.26

But generally capable of consistant of 13.8 sec 1/4 miles times.
& 8.88 sec 1/8 miles times...
But needs some TLC.....

148,000+ miles...
350 bolt on motor & auto trans.
Edelbrock headers
Full flowmaster 3 inch exhust.
Rebuilt 10 bolt rear with 3.42 grears.
street tires.
factory wheels.

see cardomain.com for long story on step by step details.
Of what helped & what didn't....

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/217551...evrolet-camaro

Shorter version on Dragtimes.com

http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-C...slip-5874.html

Good luck & have fun....I did....