GreggymacZ28

Alright so i bought my camaro this past summer, and took it to the track to run a 15.98....at best. So i took that 305 boat motor out and put in a 355 with about a 10.5:1 compression with flat top pistons and vortec heads, then put headers, and then put in a eaton posi with 3.73 gears, and i ran a 12.97. Not bad, but i have a edelbrock performer intake and it needs a holley carb which i bought an adapter for to put a Q-Jet i had on. Now im buying a holley 750 double pumper with mechanical secondaries, and am going to get some cutouts, and i will be switching from drag radials, where i was getting about 1.81 60 foot times with, and go with slicks. Anyone think low 12's or high 11's im talking 11.99 is possible? If not what else should i do?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

what size cam? what size stall? what suspension mods?


ugh....this is getting old typing out all the time.

XE274, or roller equivalent
3600+ stall
3.73 gear
slicks

run deep in the 12s with traction. No traction then struts/shocks, torque arm, LCA, LCA relocation brackets, etc etc


TONS of threads about this very thing Some on the first page of the drag section

GreggymacZ28

It has a stock 383 cam, and a 2500 stall, suspension is stock. And i understand what other peoples setups may run, i was asking for particular with my vehicle, hence the thread. I read the forums, and i understand i can read them to find out particular questions, but for this occasion i wanted to know what mine would run personally. Thanks.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

what is a "stock 383 cam"....there's nothing stock gm about a 383...

jg04222

When you say "stock 383 cam" are you referring to the 383 crate engines that GM sells? Cam specs are crucial to finding parts that are compatible.

I'd upgrade the suspension first...as xpndbl3 mentioned, shocks, lca's and lcarb's, and a decent torque arm would be a good start.

GreggymacZ28

Sorry yes, i am referring to the 383 crate motors. What do you guys think a holley 750, cutouts, and slicks would increase my time too?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

I think you'll see better gains from a performer rpm intake than a carb change at the moment. I also think a 750 is a bit big and think a 650 would ne better suited.

GreggymacZ28

In the first post i say i have an edelbrock performer intake. And i dont think that 750 would be too big, i think itd be just about right with the correct tune. So, basically im just wondering if ill be pushing low 12's or high 11's?

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

I don't believe there is an 11 seconed slip in that motor. Shooting for 12.50's would be a realistic goal. I would put a good intake and Holley 650 on it. Tune it very well and add a 3000-3200 stall 10" converter in it. That should get you into the low 1.7/ high 1.6 60's with traction and run a good 12.50 pass.
Than order up a nice NOS Super Power shot (50-150hp) and have a blast. It will probably go low elevens on the 150 hit.

GreggymacZ28

Thanks thats alot of good info! Ill just have to wait and see what it does then. Then i can move from there. Nitrous is always something i wanted to stay away from because thats not really my area and i dont want to mess up my motor.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

To be more specific, the 355 motor isn't known for it's ability to produce torque. Therefore, taking advantage of the HP range is ideal. You stated you have a performer intake. Those are good but the RPM version, air gap or Victor JR. will give additional hp over the base Performer for about $125 used. Don't be afraid to consider a 650CFM carb. Bigger isn't always better. I'm no carb expert but they need to be matched like anything else. You don't have the CI or CR to suck ample fuel from a 750cfm.
Your probably looking to keep your cam which you stated was a crate motor style cam. Those typicly range in the 218-230 duration @.050. This usually dictates aprx 1800-6000 RPM range. It is key that your torque converter can jump past the lower part of the range and be activated where the HP starts to come in. Usng a 10 inch converter will allow you to obtain 3000-3200 rpms before the converter locks up and begins to transfer power. Again, that should launch with a 1.6 60ft and land a 12.50 slip. You also never stated your mph on the 12.9 run.

I had a Monte SS with a 355 9:5 cr Vortech heads Performer RPM stlye intake, 650 holley and T-350 and 2800 stall and 3.73's. It ran high 12's on motor (converter was a bit tight) and 11.60 on a 150shot

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

a Performer and a Performer RPM are two different intakes. you have basically a stock replacement intake at the moment (that's all the performer intake was meant to be).

you do not have enough A)Cubes B)Headflow C)RPM to take advantage of a 750. you'll have a week booster signal and no amount of tuning in the world will get it optimal. it'll be sluggish off idle, and rich in the upper rpm range. a 650 is going to have crisp, clear throttle response, and will be much easier to tune since the smaller venturies will help increase velocity, and booster signal will be better, making tuning WOT easier.

what was your MPH on your 12.97 pass?

GreggymacZ28

Oh! i see where i was confused... you know what let me take another look tomorrow morning and make sure its not a performer rpm, because im almost positive it is...hm.. and about the 650, ive been looking into that and i think i might go that route instead. And on the 12.97 the mph was 105.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

ok, you're about 7mph slow for a really really efficient 11 second pass, 10mph if you're not setup real well. 7mph is easily 50-65 hp at that mph range. i think it'll be more than just an intake/carb/converter/gear swap. i think you may need to do a cam swap to something better suited to the combo.

i agree with Fast_383. a 12.50 is possible from that, but not an 11 second pass. not without going into the motor.

GreggymacZ28

Yeah, i was beginning to think the same. So if i switched to say, a zz4 cam, would i still need a 650 carb? or would i then need a 750?

GreggymacZ28

Also the intake is an edelbrock performer rpm. Sorry for the mishap, thats on me!

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Thats the information that I didn't have.


I'd say stop for a minute. Slow down. What are your goals for this car? What did you set out to build and where are you looking to end up? How much use does the car get? Street driven???

You really need to sort this stuff out before you go any further. If your just looking to have a quick street car that you occasionaly want to go to the track than be careful that you don't end up bit by the HP bug. Before you know it you'll have $5000 in credit card debt and a fast car that just plain sucks to drive. If you're looking for the street car than you should consider some of the things that have been mentioned. A solid mid 12 car with a 3200 stall will be a blast on the street and remain a car that you can take on a date.

With that being said; If your looking to head down the 11 seconed road than hear we go. Your going to need a different combination alltogether. Your long block isn't going to be capable of moving enough air to make the horsepower required to move the car to 113-114 MPH where you can comfortably run 11's.
If your stuck with 10.5 CR than your going to have to make up the power with a good heads and cam combo. The cam duration will need to be more like high
230's to mid 240's. That will raise the RPM band to 2500-6500 (instead of your 1800-6000). than you will need a head that can move the new air cycle out efficiently and not be a restriction. Your Vortec heads work around .525 lift I think and youll need a head that can move .550 or so. At that point your Performer RPM will work but maybe the next restriction as a Victor or Air gap will work much better. A 650cfm carb may still be ideal but mathmatics will provide an accurate answer on that. Now that you've created and moved all this air you cant cork it up with exhaust. You'll need a set of long tube headers. Hooker makes a 1 3/4 for around $450 or $275 used. Now that you are running this motor in a whole new opporating range (2500-6500) you would greatly benefit from a 3400-3500 stall to plant the power to a 1.5x 60ft. that will also create suspension issues, traction issues and saftey issues that will cost you another $5k

But at least you have a stupid $10,000, 3 inch piece of paper that says you drove 1320 feet in 11 seconeds.

GreggymacZ28

haha, you make a very valid point. I was actually looking for low 12's but i was going to sometime try to break into the 11's not consistantly run it but maybe get a run in there, but i think what you said about the low 12's and being good on the street is what i'm going to do. What my goal for the car was from day one was to be a street car that i can drive around for fun on nice days, but then be quick at the strip too. I think like 12.20 or 12.30 would be a good goal for that then?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

how about what's your budget.....that will dictate how fast you "can" go.


Start from that....??? $5,000? $10,000? $1500 ?


speed costs....how fast you want to go?

91_B4C_RS

Like said above it took me a 116mph trap speed and a 1.670 60'.carbed 383

GreggymacZ28

I'd say budgets somewhat tight, ive put a little too much into this already, from when i bought it just restoring everything, new motor, new paint, etc. But i could get a zz4 cam, holley 650, and some slicks for around 700? I'm hoping that might push me in 12.30 area?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

There are so many better cams out there than the zz4. I'd look at the xe274h or equivalent roller.

GreggymacZ28

Well, see the guy i bought the engine off of, would give me a really good deal on a new zz4 if i wanted it. Would an xe274h change my timeslip enough to be worth the extra cash?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

zz4 is basically a stock replacement cam, it won't be worth the gaskets to install it in the engine. Maybe work some overtime and save up to do it right the first time instead of going only halfway into the project

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

The zz4 specs are no more wild than your "stock 383" cam.

GreggymacZ28

Does the xe274h require me to change my lifters? It seems on summit that they mostly come in kits? Is this a good idea to do?

TPI-Formula350-

try the Comp 280 XFI cam

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Is your cam a hydraulic roller? I had a flat tappet that was $100 that worked unbelievable. XE-284-H

GreggymacZ28

You guys think this cam will work well with my setup? I have roller lifters in my car so i need a roller cam, and this one seems to fit all the areas i need.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-180885-10/

GreggymacZ28

Oh whoops, sorry i didnt see that. But yes it's a hydraulic roller. I think the cam above would work?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

tha's still a pretty mild camshaft. you're not going to get into the 11's with a camshaft in the 22x* duration range.

look at something like this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-08-432-8/

or this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-08-433-8/

you will have to make sure you have valve guide to retainer clearance (may have to have the guides milled) and be sure you have whatever valve spring is recommeneded by the manufactorer. i highly recommend a full roller rocker, like a comp pro-mag as the stock stamped rockers will deflect like crazy under the required spring pressures needed to keep the lifters under control. and your current lifters will work fine.

GreggymacZ28

That second one looks pretty good, yeah i see on the duration i needed it to be a little higher than that other one, and im figuring my goal at this point at about 12.20. Not really shooting for 11's right off the bat as i would like to keep it driveable on the street still. But that second cam looks like something i could go with.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

That seconed cam is a much better choice to get closer to your goals. If you look back at my long post it's exactly what I was saying you need to raise the RPM range up to 6500.

GreggymacZ28

Exactly, i went by the specs you put to try and find the right one. And what Mw66 posted seem to fit the bill. I think ill go with a holley 650 and then that cam. Hopefully i can be seeing a low second 12 sometime!

91_B4C_RS

Remember the difference between a 12.20 -11.99 is only 1-2 tenths
On the 60' time. It nessecarly doesn't require more horsepower. It just has to hookup and get up into the sweet spot of the powerband.

My 383 ran 12.30's last year with a 1.9x 60'. The only thing I changed was suspension and gears tires. That put my 60' time in the 1.7x range and 11.99 et. Slapped a higher stall in it and went 1.5x 60' time at 11.529 et. Did nothing to the engine. Hell I didn't even change oil last year (prolly contributed to throwing a rod lol) or adjust valves. Its all bout the 60'

Ron_90

Are those gears in a 10 bolt rear? If so, it would be a good idea to look into getting another rearend or beef up the stock one. With slicks you're liable to mess that thing up

GreggymacZ28

Yeah everythings stock in the rearend except that i just recently around 3 months ago bought a eaton posi.

91_b4C: Yeah i know, thats why i was thinking about trying to get it into the 12.30's and then maybe buying some lca's, lcarb's, and a torque arm to see what i could do then.

Ron_90

Then if you still want to dip into the 11's then it might be in your best interests to buy an Aluminum girdle and get aftermarket axles

GreggymacZ28

Ill probably do that as a last resort kind of a thing. I've seen some guys on here running 9's with their stock rearends, ill just wait and see how it holds up with upgraded suspension and all.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

ring and pinion will destroy themselves long before aftermarket axles are needed on a 10 bolt IMO.

Ron_90

And if I'm not mistaken that is caused by weaknesses in the axle tubes, so some strengthening of the tubes would help there. And we're assuming that he has 28 spline axles, not the 26 splines that supposedly shatter like glass

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

nothing to do with the axle tubes, has to do with a tiny pinion and ring gear

DeltaElite121

I would put your money into the suspension. It's like the difference of pulling a large rock in the snow, or pulling the same rock on a sled. It'll still be the same load, but it won't take nearly as much effort to get going.

That's what I did. I could've had a nasty motor by now, but I put it all in the suspension instead. Don't regret it at all. The only thing I HAVEN'T bought is slicks because I haven't dug into the rearend yet.

I do agree that using your current combination will still require changes; particularly with your cam profile and converter choice. Call Lunati and they'll get you squared away.

GreggymacZ28

Delta: Yeah i understand what youre saying i think once its all said and done with my performance, im definitely upgrading the suspension.

On another note, i do not think that i am going to be using a holley 650. Instead i think i am actually going to go with a holley 750. The carb cfm calculator when taking that i have a 355, and 5600 rpm(where i shift into third), and doing 100% volumetric efficiency i got 575. So i thought that was pretty low so i forsure would need a 650. But then i read this in the carb section

https://www.thirdgen.org/pickacarb

Now if you scroll down and read you will see that you need to multiply that by about 1.2-1.5. Taking the middle number of 1.3 and multiplying that by 575 you get, 748.

DeltaElite121

I went with a Quickfuel 750 for reference on my 355. If you decide to buy a new carb, get one like mine with annular boosters.

Ron_90

I read that somewhere but now I can't find the article for some reason.


(don't kill me carb guys) but if you have room in your budget you could try EFI by picking up a TBI from the junkyard, make all the necessary adjustments for performance and then run EBL Flash. You'd be sure to gain MPG's and power. A ported TBI will flow about 670 cfm if I'm not mistaken, which would definitely fulfill your needs since you don't have to worry about all the variables involved with carburetors

The whole setup would probably run around $700 but you'd certainly reap some nice gains and drivability from it.

GreggymacZ28

Ron: I like carbs and i want to stick with them, i like everything about them, and i'm looking forward to tuning mine right. Should add a little fun for me.

Delta: I have a nearby holley 750 double pumper with mechanical secondaries in really nice condition for a low price, so if this guy doesnt fall through i'm going to try and jump on that.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

Since when did a sbc with stock vortec cylinder heads have 100% volumetric efficiency?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

TBI sucks, i would rather save a little more and do something with 8 injectors. TBI would be ok on a stock motor if you got all the parts needed from a donor truck or something, but i wouldnt put $700 into one.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

this feeling will go away in time. lol if i ever go to a carb again i will be calling prosystems or the like and having one put together for my combo. the only tuning i want to do to a carb nowadays is the part where i take it out of the box and place it on top of the engine.