fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Can some one elaberate on the rules here on 2 step limiters being legal in the Sportsman class for NHRA.

Does these rules mean that I can use a 2 step limiter for launch control??? Thanks for any advice. I need to get my launch down pat and want to remain legal for Sportsman.

Heres the rules link. Thanks!
http://www.lvms.com/documents/summit...nals_rules.pdf

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

its fine, but you only get one chip in it to help on the starting line, or over-rev protection.

basically, yeah its fine, but you can't run the high side chip.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Well I just found the track rules and they seem to differ from those above.
http://summitmotorsportspark.com/Pri...=Track%20Rules

Now im trying to think of a way to limit the throttle at the line via tuning or anything else thats deamed "legal"

Ill just burn a chip to idle at 2k rpms.....

project89

iTrader: (1)

idle at 2 k wont help lol.

even with ur track rules u can run the 2 step u just have to disable to top end setting

worse comes to worse talk ot the tech inspector before u make ur runs and let them know u have only one chip

and dont use the word 2 step , say wot box/antilag

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

x2 on talking with the tech inspector....

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Lmao.. what about idling at 3k. Just kidding man, Ill talk to the techs and make sure its fine to run a box.

project89

iTrader: (1)

either way its legal to run the box, if they disalow the staging limiter u will just have to disconect the wire

btw i rea dup on the box to activate the staging limiter u supply 12volts to the organge wire on the box so u could tap right into the brake switch or just wire up a momentary switch

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ok dave thanks again. Id like to just wire it up with a momentary switch so that I can still do a full burnout without the limiter. Or mabey just wire up a switch inline with the brake wire so that I can switch it on and off, thus limiting when the low rpm limiter works. That box is up to 45$ shipped so far, still a deal! Im patiently waiting to make a bid....

I did box up those LCA so I hope that helps a little on the 60ft. I got a tach coming to help, and I never got the chance to disconnect the FT sway bar and see if that helps/time/consistancy. I will do that friday if it doesnt rain again.

project89

iTrader: (1)

see the way u are doing burnouts is hurting u
.

if u get that box leave it hooked up during the burnout, roll threw the water step on the brakes to activate the limiter go wot and let boost build soon as u get some boost let off the brake and burnout upto the line without touching the brake this will leave ur rear brakes nice and cool and they will hold 20x better on the line

the way u are d oing it now with holding the brakes on and just overpowering the rear brakes to do a burnout makes the rear pads redhot , then when u stage the rear brakes are so hot they cant hold.

thats why just about all drag racers use a linelock to lock the front brakes only for a burnout

doing ti without holding the brakes u should be able to launch at 2,900 rpms and full boost off the footbrake
u will have to play with the rpm limit though so u can get it to were u can build alot of boost and still hold the car on the line, but 2600 rpms should be enough to build alot of boost and still not try to roll threw the staging beams

project89

iTrader: (1)

btw dont get in a bidding war for that ignition box
u can get a brand new procomp box on ebay with the same features for 129$ new

truth be told id rather have the used mallory box though

but since u know u can get a procomp box that cheap dont overbid on the mallory

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Yea I know my burnouts are killing my brakes because its hard to hold that car when the turbo starts to spool. The other weekend when I launched at 2800rpms with that exhaust leak it was a pita to hold at the line but thats also when I made that 2.02 60ft time. And thats with that bad boost/ex. leak. So im hoping for 1.8x's with the right rythem. Its just takign practce as its totally different launching a turboed car then any other fast N/A car Ive driven down that track.

I havent bid on that box yet im just waiting till the end. Its still at like 43 or so bucks shipped and theres a hour left. I do have even fire right?? Just want to make sure as thats what the box can handle.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yes u have an even fire engine, that box will 100% work with the v6 u will need to open the one cover and set it to 6 cyl though as im sure the switches are more then likley set to a v8

i also found the install directions in pdf format if the ones that come with it arent readable if u need them let me know

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

keep your eyes open for a good used mallory or msd 6AL. you can find those for very reasonable prices used.
long story short, I would use a front line lock for the burn out. it will make your life MUCH easier.


here's a picture of the inside of a procomp box

project89

iTrader: (1)

i know that picture, thats the inside of a counterfit msd 6al box , not one of the procomp boxes

they actually show apicture of the inside of the procomp box on the auctions

but yes i agree a used msd or mallory box is a much much much better choice then a new procomp box

project89

iTrader: (1)

fast did u win the mallory box ?

this is the procomp box i was talking about
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RACE-IGNITIO...b52934&vxp=mtr

though i cant find the few auctions i found before that showed the inside

AlkyIROC

Typically a 2 step is used with a transbrake to launch at the same rpm every time. According to the NHRA rulebook, you could use one but you could only use it to bring the engine rpm up enough that the vehicle brakes won't break free since you can't use a transbrake in sportsman class. If you can hold back the car with the brakes at lets say 2500 rpm then you can set the 2 step to limit the launch rpm to 2500 rpm and it won't climb higher. That way you don't have to watch the tach to get to the same launch rpm every time.

That would mean that you would have to still hold the brakes with your foot while engaging the 2 step. When the light goes green, let go of the brakes and 2-step. It's very easy to wire in the 2 step into another brake light switch. Step on the brake and the 2 step comes on. Release the brake and the 2 step goes off. That way you don't have to worry about doing multiple things.

Each track however can modify they're own rules. While some may allow it, other may say no. The only way to know is to contact your local track and ask them.

2 steps can be hard on internal parts. Stock rod bolts and cast pistons won't survive for long.

Just looked at Summit racing series rules. Boy are they ever confusing. Under Pro, you're not allowed a 3 step. Third stage is only used in the burnout box. Nothing about being able to use a 2 step which is probably allowed. So why can't they use a rev limiter in the burnout box?

In sportsman, you can't use a transbrake which is normal. A single stage limiter (high or low side). Now what good is a single stage limiter if you can only use it on the low side? Good way to blow an engine if it over revs. If you have a 2 step, you can only use it as a high or low side. Again, a little dumb to only use it on the low side.

I guess if you read between the lines, you can use a rev limiter for a starting line limiter just as long as it isn't protecting the engine from over reving while going down the track.

There are other ways around the rule that would still be allowed. Use a single rev limiter like a 6AL for high end protection. Autometer sells a replay tach that also flashes a light at you at a launch rpm. It will blink the light if you're above or below your set launch rpm and the light stays solid when you're at the rpm. It's not a rev limiter as you still need to control the rpm with your foot but the light in the tach is telling you if you're at the right rpm or not. That way you don't have to watch the tach needle itself. Just keep the light in the corner of your eye.

project89

iTrader: (1)

the 2 step in his case isnt for launching the the same rpm everytime its going to be used to build boost something he wont be able to do woith footbraking against his current converter

in his case low rpm set at 2,5-2,600 rpms prestage engage the low rpm limit and roll into the stage beam against the limiter his car should build anywwere from 5-10 psi of boost so he will have to learn when the right time to engage the limiter as to not build so much boost his suspension wont hook

as far as the top end limiter he dosent need one max shift is about 6,200 rpms
his engine can safley go to about 7500 so plenty of time to lift say the trans dont shift or breaks a drive shaft , and he will still have the ecm fuel cut at 8k with no load it would save the engine from disater

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

As stated, track rules can differ.

I inquired of the Div V NHRA tech staff about the Summit ET Finals rules. What they told me is a launch 2-step and a high-RPM safety rev limiter were fine. The key is the middle sentence in Rule #4 - "Rev limiters or any other rpm limiting devices, legal unto themselves but altered or installed in so as to function as a down-track rpm controller prohibited." i.e., no banging a rev limiter at 1200' every time down the track. And, they also told me the 2-step couldn't be adjustable from the driver's seat.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

The box got up there in price so I had to just let it go.

I did talk to the owner of the track on the phone today.. yea he said in sportsman I can NOT have any launch control/anti lag or any other electronicaly controled device that has anything to do with the starting line. Thats sux but I kindof figured thats what hed say.

This is at Summit Motorsports Park in Norwalk, Ohio. Billy Bader Jr.

project89

iTrader: (1)

u would have to bump ur class to pro ,ur running in there time bracket now so that could be an option.right in the track rules it states pro class may use a 2 step.

ill find u another cheap box to see if u can snag it

1bad406

iTrader: (1)

Can you not just run a 6al with a 2step and wire up the 2 step on the brake pedal with a switch like you said? Then you can lower the chip to whatever your brakes will hold, roll in turn on the top bulb, with the switch on, foot on the brake, ease down on the gas until your wide open studdering at 2500 or whatever, then when you let off the brake the car should rocket out?

project89

iTrader: (1)

that exactly the idea except in his sportsman points class a 2 step is not legal so he wont be able to use it even if he does get one

his class alows only a over rev limiter

he can still install one but low rpm chip or activation wire will have to be disconected when he runs his points races, which kinda sucks having that 2 step would knock dam near .750 off his et

looks like his only other option would be to move from sportsman to pro

1bad406

iTrader: (1)

oh ok, I see now. so basically its a foot-brake bracket class? hard to be consistent with a turbo car anyway, let alone leaving on the brakes.

project89

iTrader: (1)

hes actually got it dialed in pretty good one pass to the next, granted the car gets faster every weekend since hes still tunning it but his splits from qualifying to eliminations are usually about about within a tenth of each other

right now were just trying to help him get the most out of the setup, he should be able to run around 13.3-13.5 launching with no boost like he has been should be a nice 12.6-12.8 ride with just the addition of the 2 step as the car sits now

lil more tunning and boost he should be able to get that thing down in the very low 12's

the 2 step idea was also to help him with the car pushing threw the stage beam making him redlight

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Id like to stay in the sportsman class, just because its hard enough to rack up points in that class. The pro and superpro class is a ball buster since almost everyone has a trans brake, 2step and such... Although Id still like to get a 2 step box. Ill just leave it unhooked for the saturday time trials and the weekend race. On fridays I like to run the car for all shes got and mabey next year ill step it up to pro.

The car is consistant as long as I get 2 time trials, the other day in 5 passes it went 13.7-13.95 not thats not the best but on the slower runs I was either peddling or on the brakes at the finish line. Full WOT the whole pass netted a 13.7, a 13.82 and a 13.83. It all comes down to the 60ft time/launch.

1gary

Yep-many of the races are won or lost in the first 60'.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Really?

I know a 2-step can help make your RTs consistent, and keep you from pushing out of the staging beams, but make your ET quicker?

I don't think so...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I think mabey hes saying that is because I rush so much to stage right and look up at the bulbs for the the RT that I dont launch at the RPM's I should. One time I launch at 2k the next 2400 and so on. So if I could just launch with boost every time I know Id be faster, insted of always worrieing about the RT. Thats what is so unconsistant for me. I "generly" cut good bulbs and from the split times anything over the 300ft mark is about as consistant as I could ever hope for a turboed car.

project89

iTrader: (1)

the 2 step will be the difference form him launching with no boost and not spolling up till about 150 ft out or luanching with full boost and power
the difference will be huge

on my car the difference was dam near .830 went from 13.00 to 12.2 with no other changes at all

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Yea im looking for another box too, at least something because my ignition is probly getting to the end of its range as of now.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah the 2 step will put u from 2.0-2.1 60 fts down into the 1.7-1.8 range typically whatever u gain on the 60 u will dbl at the top end

watch my one video
2.0 60 car went 13.4 next pass 1.8 went 13.001 after that is went i to the 2 step

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

You know it dave. 13.36@102mph this weekend and a whole bunch of other runs 13.50 or under

project89

iTrader: (1)

there wa sa 6al box listed in the classifieds for 100 bucks but i know he had 2 msgs about it already so it might be sold already

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ok, ill look for it and see whats up. I did get a nice lil 3" tach. It works much better for those consistant 60ft times.