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Swiching over to the dark side.

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Old 04-26-2017, 03:49 PM   #1
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Swiching over to the dark side.

After over 6 years of messing with Turbo V6 engines in these thirdgens im switching over to V8s. I had a catastrophic failor last weekend with my V6. Broke the crank, which bent some forged rods and really trashed the piston and a cylinder. SO I had a friend with this proven 385 SBC who had this for sale.

Im a bracket racer first and foremost. The past few years I fell away from that always chasing times in the V6s. Almost like I was trying to prove something. Granted I did make a best of a [email protected] and that was in 3.1/3100 engine at the time(191 cubic inches). But I need to get back to what I was good at 6 years ago when I didnt chase down times, and have to fix my car each and every weekend trying to keep the loaded bomb together.

So I may be racing this Sunday if the weather co operates.

Its a 385 stroker SBC. Scat 9000 cast rotating assembly. .040 350 block.
Dart Iron 200cc heads
Comp cam XE268 baby cam
Comp Ultra Gold 1.6 rockers
Holly DP 750 carb
Elderbrock Nitrous plate system, wet (and every other bell and whistle on the car to complement it. My V6 used n20 every pass)
Elec Proform 35gpm pump
Mini starter.
MSD 6al-2 programmable ignition
MSD Pro billet dizzy
Taylor 10.2mm wires.
Performer RPM intake
and theres more im sure but the engine was a proven 12.0 et in a 3500 f bird so hopefully it can propel me to about the same.

My car was not set up for a NA set up so my gears are off.... 3.23 but i luckly have a smaller stall I can use. A freakshow 3500 instead of the 5k PTC stall that was in the car.

I have a hughes trans in this car with a T-brake but dont plan to use it as with this slower engine im sure to be in sportsman class only and not pro like i was in the turbo 6. Sometimes it was a bit too fast in sportsman at certain tracks where the cut is 12 flat. Hard to turn down a 11.30-40 car to 12 flat and be consistant.

I hope to be much more consistant and win more rounds with this set up and will be sure to update anyone that is interested.
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:31 PM   #2
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

Everybody has their own requirements for how they want to race. Like you, some may want to see how good they can do with a V6 turbo. Others may limit themselves to a 305. If you want, you could even race the 2.5L 4 cylinder in a third gen. There are still a lot of other people who only want to run a small tire with a high HP car. Each restriction is something you need to find a way to overcome just to prove that it can be done.

Then on the other scale, there's people like me. Stuff the biggest engine I can under the hood. Well maybe not completely under the hood. Stuff the biggest tire I can under the car, etc, etc etc. I have no restrictions to what I can do. Yes there are cars that can run faster with smaller engines with turbos or even a small tire but like you said, they are always a grenade waiting to go off. Even with what I have, I go racing expecting to break something.

As for the gearing, I originally had an old school 383 in the car that ran high 11's at 117 mph with a 3.27 gear 9 bolt. Gearing was really bad. By the time I crossed the 1/4 mile, I was just starting to get into the powerband. It was fun launching up against another car running a similar ET. They would jump ahead at the start and I would start pulling hard by the 1000 foot mark when they were topping out. I had a few racers tell me it was hard to judge when I was going to pass them or not.

The car is set up perfectly now. When I hit the 1/4 mile mark, I can't go any faster.

Turbos may make a lot more power but lack consistency for a bracket car. It's impressive to see a twin turbo 6 liter car drive to the track, make an 8 second pass then drive home but trying to run the same ET for a bracket race isn't as easy as with a NA engine.
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:44 PM   #3
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

fasteddi, I think you got in to Drag Week 2017, right?
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:23 AM   #4
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

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fasteddi, I think you got in to Drag Week 2017, right?
That would be Mars. He has one the only V6 is that I know of that's faster than me on this board.

I was planning on doing drag week 2018 because they are so many guidelines you have to conform to and with V6 as it's a little harder to get certain parts that are certified. I was very close to sending in paperwork for drag week 17 but I am very glad I didn't now because I would have been very upset if I didn't have a car capable of running low 11s High 10s and being consistent on the road
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:40 AM   #5
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

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Everybody has their own requirements for how they want to race. Like you, some may want to see how good they can do with a V6 turbo. Others may limit themselves to a 305. If you want, you could even race the 2.5L 4 cylinder in a third gen. There are still a lot of other people who only want to run a small tire with a high HP car. Each restriction is something you need to find a way to overcome just to prove that it can be done.

Then on the other scale, there's people like me. Stuff the biggest engine I can under the hood. Well maybe not completely under the hood. Stuff the biggest tire I can under the car, etc, etc etc. I have no restrictions to what I can do. Yes there are cars that can run faster with smaller engines with turbos or even a small tire but like you said, they are always a grenade waiting to go off. Even with what I have, I go racing expecting to break something.

As for the gearing, I originally had an old school 383 in the car that ran high 11's at 117 mph with a 3.27 gear 9 bolt. Gearing was really bad. By the time I crossed the 1/4 mile, I was just starting to get into the powerband. It was fun launching up against another car running a similar ET. They would jump ahead at the start and I would start pulling hard by the 1000 foot mark when they were topping out. I had a few racers tell me it was hard to judge when I was going to pass them or not.

The car is set up perfectly now. When I hit the 1/4 mile mark, I can't go any faster.

Turbos may make a lot more power but lack consistency for a bracket car. It's impressive to see a twin turbo 6 liter car drive to the track, make an 8 second pass then drive home but trying to run the same ET for a bracket race isn't as easy as with a NA engine.
All of the years that I had a turbo bracket car I bet a dozen times that I want to race only because I was so slow at the beginning but would trap speeds that were way higher then somebody running a comparable ET. It was definitely an advantage. And I'm sure this new setup I have will be close to it but not nearly as dramatic.


I do look forward to starting up the engine hopefully tonight. I got quite a bit done in the last 2 nights after work. It's amazing that about 4 days ago I had a V6 turbo in this car.

obviously my engine bay is not the best shape right now. I'm sure that after I keep tweaking it will look better.

I am not going to hook the nitrous up for a little while until I get that all situated. I don't even know how much nitrous I can put this motor to be honest. I've only tune fuel injected Nitrous system before never a carbureted one so I have some learning to do with carburetor. I do have a wideband, on my car a knock sensor, a map sensor hooked up to a 6al 2 programmable. I will still be using the computer for certain things such as actually starting the car and data logging what information I can.

I am really hoping it does not rain on Sunday so I can take this car to the race track it should be ready by then



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Old 04-28-2017, 05:58 AM   #6
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

Sill a lot of wiring to fix. Braided fuel line to add among other things but it runs very good and is a Damn healthy motor.

4 days ago just had a blown up V6 and it had five days ago and had a workong V6 so I think I did pretty well considering I work 40 or 50 hours a week LOL it's been 3 late nights in a row getting it running.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGd9bs-4PHM&sns=em

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Old 04-28-2017, 12:43 PM   #7
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

Thats awesome man. As far as gearing i love having the mph. Yea i aint gettin all the et out my car but it runs 7.40 and mph like a 6.80 car. Quarter mile is 11.50 with 124 mph. Everyone here runs 4.56 with 28 tires. Dont be a sheep! Good luck
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:28 PM   #8
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

if you have any usable buick v6 parts for sale let me know i may be interested,
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:55 AM   #9
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

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if you have any usable buick v6 parts for sale let me know i may be interested,

I never ran a Buick V6 so I don't have any parts like that but I do have a turbosmart wastegate turbosmart blow off valve in a Borg Warner s366 Turbo for sale let alone a lot of braided oil return an oil supply line.

well they cancelled the races today because of rain so I didn't get to make it there although the car is definitely ready to go to the track I am hoping for a 12.50 or lower right out of the gate. Right now it's open headers so I haven't got to drive it around on the road very much to tune the carburetor but the wideband was telling arround 12.7 afr the few times i dis got wot. As long as the weather holds up next weekend I will be racing on Sunday. I have the timing lock at 34 degrees right now I have a MSD 6al2 programmable box but I haven't got it to connect yet to my computer I have a racetronix USB to serial adapter that I cannot find the driver for online. So right now I am running a MSD 6al box and I switch the ignition on after a cranks over a few times. I still do need to finish up the roll cage and harness but I can do that this week.



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Old 05-10-2017, 06:08 AM   #10
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

Let's see if anyone can make a close guess to get another 1/4 Mile estimate. Last week I went racing and it was a grudge race no ET the timing system has problem so we did not get any Time Slips but I did make one successful pass out of the 2. The first half my throttle cable came unhooked so I didn't make a full pass. Racing Sunday so I'll be sure to post times. 75 and sunny forecasted.

One of his passes when he first did the swap. 12.26 on the brakes. Iirc he was running super rich. Dialed it in better later on. Running 12.0s later that year. Hes a good friend of mine.

https://youtu.be/zkLLWajy30o

mods.
385 ci 11.1:1 compression
dart iron heads 200cc intake runners.
xe268 cam
comp gold rockers 1.6 ratio
eagle cast rotating assembly. Forged rods.
rpm performer dual plane intake
msd pro billet dizzy and msd coil
msd 6al 2 plus a programmable box
Taylor wires
holley 750 dp carb. 31/33 squirters 73/79 jets.
mini starter
hooker headers open headers
elec water pump
Sfi balancer
freakshow 3500 stall converter
Hughes th350 trans. Rev. Man. Valve body with brake(Not using 2 step or brake)
3.23 rear end gears. Lock right locker. Moser 28 spline axles. C clip eliminaters. Girdle with bearing supports. Welded tubes.
275 drag radials mts
3320 race weight.
lots of suspension goodies. Lake wood 90/10 struts lake wood 50/50 shocks. Adjustable tq arm. Adjustable lca. Adjustable pan hard bar. All tubular.
No front seat bar.
6pt cage
sub frame connectors.
NOT shooting n20 right now.


Running at 6.5psi fuel pressure. Shifting at 5700 seemed like I was about 5200 at the traps the other day. 12.6-12.9 AFR On the pass. 35 total timing after 2k rpm.

My gear suxs. Ment for my old turbo trapping 120 plus mph, But the larger converter I'm running does get it outta the hole ok.


the engine before with a 89 fbird weighing in at 3500lbs race weight. Had a best of [email protected] With a th350 and a ford 9 inch rear 3.70 gear, b&m 2800- 3k stall. He went 1.66 1.67 60s

From what it felt like I would guess at 12.20 12.30 as a good pass. If I can knock down a 1.70-1.73 60.

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Old 05-15-2017, 04:58 AM   #11
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

First time out this year with a v8

12.159 12.171 and a pass that would convert to 12.163 all at 110mph. 1.64 1.64 1.65 60 foots. Shifting at 5400 weighed the car. 3380 race weight

bad 1st time reaction .100 red. After that .030 and .027 just where i wanted it.

a close friend of mine locked his 12 bolt up at the 1000 ft Mark going a bit over 100mph. Saved the car thankfully buy did a little bit if damage. Trashed the rear end. Tranmsmission gas tank and driveshaft. 1970 chevelle. So I had my mind else where at elims but I still managed to cut a respectable .027 light but I heard some bad sounds from the rear area clicking and stuff like that so I let off and peddled and it did it again so I threw that away. The car I was racing had a .4xx bulb. Suxs I should have won but I'll live to race again. I was going to buy a aftermarket rear this week so this speed up my desision.

https://youtu.be/T_XwgE1065s

may have to copy and past link. [email protected] 1.64 60.

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Old 05-15-2017, 05:58 PM   #12
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

eddi...are you still on the 275 radials? if so..what tire psi you running?
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Old 05-15-2017, 06:28 PM   #13
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

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eddi...are you still on the 275 radials? if so..what tire psi you running?

yes I am. I was running 18 PSI. 275 Mickey Thompson street drs ss.
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:00 PM   #14
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

Here is better links of the vids. The car really is a competitive car I feel. Very consistant moving under 2 hund in 3 hits thoughout the day. first 2 linked below.

I must say I am really happy with the suspention mods ive done since the last times I raced. I noticed that my 60 foots are much better even then with 100hp shot of n20 and a turbo on the V6. Even back when I could pull 1.6xs with the V6 it didnt feel this good. It likes to lift the front and stay up. It goes straight and is easy to get going. The second vid you can see the front end comes up and stays all the way up. The first hit, it did dive a bit. I made a adjustment and feel it fixed the diving.

Back when i had mostly stock crap. The front end loved to come up and quickly take a immediate large dive and bounce back up... and sometimes back when I had a crappy auburn lsd in the rear it would even pull to one side. I remember the best 60 was a 1.58 iirc with the Turbo 6 and i thought i was going to drive into the wall....



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Old 05-23-2017, 07:31 PM   #15
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

There is no points racing this weekend for me so I figured I would tinker around. I am adding this main body into the Holley 750 DP I have right now not sure if it's going to gain any horsepower or anything but it definitely looks a lot better. For about $80 after the coupons I had from Summit I don't think you can go wrong.

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Old 06-01-2017, 05:48 AM   #16
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

Well I hope to go racing Sunday of the weather holds off. I was on the border of what I wanted to do with my car this winter coming up. I don't plan on messing with the current set up up till the points season is over. I'm just gathering parts slowly so I'm ready come September.

The proform body is on and feels more responsive.



I got a pair of Doug's full length headers coming today from summit. Currently I have some hooker shortie headers on the engine that came with the motor. They help with tq but top end it's choking me a lot.

My goal is to be on the bottom of our sportsman class time bracket next year(11.50). So I will be swapping out the tiny xe268 cam this fall along with tossing on the headers 1 3/4 and hopefully using my custom built PTC. 4500-5k converter.

I'm unsure of the cam I want though. Stuck between a xe284 and 294. I have dart heads with springs capable of .600 lift. I want the power range up there but don't want to totally kill my tq out of the whole. I feel shifting at 6000-6300 Is plenty sufficient.

Currently I shift at 5400 with the xe268 cam.

Right now I'm pulling 1.64 60 foots with the xe268 cam. And 3.23s out back. 3000 but really stalls at 3500 freakshow converter. 9.5 inch.
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:19 PM   #17
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

I played with my car today and ended up having a 35 and 37 squirter that helped my hesitation problem.

I also got the headers I am assuming that this Notch since it is a slip on primary for the one I am supposed to cut? It did not come with any instructions about it. The headers look very very nice I'm not going to put them in just yet but I don't see them being much of a problem except maybe some of the upper control arm a arm area.

these are 1 3/4. I have 1 5/8th currently and I'm hoping to help my 4k and up power range with these. Also want to put a 18 inch collector on each to help retain some tq in the mid area.... ideas on that? Does it help it is better to just run them open headers?

I got the one and three-quarter inch primaries because it is a 385 cubic inch engine that at least I would say has 400 horsepower. And I did want to do a turbo and everything else but I changed my mind and want to keep it naturally aspired just put in a larger cam larger stall converter and try to get into the 11.50 area if I can with all motor. And I also have a Moser 12 bolt ordered and coming. Hopefully here by the weeks end.



Last edited by fasteddi; 06-01-2017 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 06-02-2017, 08:30 PM   #18
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

I have 1 3/4 long tubes with a .600 lift roller. Had the same thought about collector extensions. Nope made no difference at all. Added 6 inch race mufflers and picked up .03 consistently. Motor seemed to want some back pressure.
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Old 06-04-2017, 06:55 PM   #19
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

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I have 1 3/4 long tubes with a .600 lift roller. Had the same thought about collector extensions. Nope made no difference at all. Added 6 inch race mufflers and picked up .03 consistently. Motor seemed to want some back pressure.
Nice. I may toss them on. I have 2 weeks off until the next points race.

I made it to the 3rd round today then fell asleep at the line and broke out .005 because of it. A 12.215 on a 12.22 dial. Cars consistent, which I really like.

first 2 elimination passes I peddled for the win but I got a lot of 1/8 mile slips to compare. 7.79 7.80 7.80 and 7.81. And 1/4 miles of 12.19 and 12.21.

60 foots were dead on the same evey run.

Although the v8s a lot slower it sure is much easier to race. Very happy about that.


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Old 06-07-2017, 06:40 AM   #20
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

Something i notice in your pic that really gets my attention. It appears to be blue sky and sunny! I have not raced since first weekend of april because of rain. Car looks awesome and am really digging the project.
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Old 06-08-2017, 05:14 AM   #21
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

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Something i notice in your pic that really gets my attention. It appears to be blue sky and sunny! I have not raced since first weekend of april because of rain. Car looks awesome and am really digging the project.

we got lucky last Sunday because the rain stopped just in time for racing. That was only the second time I got to go because of the weather this spring.

it has been such a rainy year so far especially on race day

And thanks. The car has been very very fun so far this year to race
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:49 AM   #22
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Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

Ran car as is on Sunday. Was 90 plus degrees out. Went ok. Lost 2nd round because I red lighted by .011 also was .002 off my dial.

Car did great though. Very easy to race it. My 60s are a bit inconsistent but over all if I could have consistent bulbs is be going alot more rounds.


I also took the rv since it was hot, we got to relax in the a.c.. rv pulls like the car and trailor weren't even there.



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Old 06-18-2017, 06:53 PM   #23
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northwest Ohio
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: SBC 385, Dart heads, 11.1:1
Transmission: Hughes TH350 Trans Brk.PTC5KStall
Axle/Gears: 8.8" Swap In Progress

Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

Well went faster today on accident. Serpentine belt broke so I ran with no power steering or alternator. Lost 2nd round because of this and the red light. Not too bad bad for 3.23 gears xe268 cam and shifting at 5200.

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Old Today, 08:39 AM   #24
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 5,904
Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: SBC 385, Dart heads, 11.1:1
Transmission: Hughes TH350 Trans Brk.PTC5KStall
Axle/Gears: 8.8" Swap In Progress

Re: Swiching over to the dark side.

Finally tossed the dougs lt headers on. Sound and look very nice. Easy fit. No cutting of the k member to make them fit.

racing again tomorrow.
last 3 races I've won.... 2 rounds 2 rounds then 1 round. So the cars pretty consistent. When i lose its usially from a red light. I've had a few problems here and there with it but things to be expected from swapping a motor in so quickly. Fun fun car. Best so far... [email protected] with a 1.64 60 foot. Not too bad for 3.23 gears. Shifting at 5200 and going though the traps at 5300 5400. The slip below is when my belt came off 2 cars from the burnout box. Didn't have time to fix it so I picked up a lot.








My expectations of the headers are not to make it faster. But if it does that's great. They are 1 3/4 compared to the 1 5/8 shorties. They look much better. Sound a ton better and also allow me a lot more room to change spark plugs.

Racing tomorrow as is but plan to weld up some 18 inch long turn down extensions.

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