1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build - Page 3 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards


Organized Drag Racing and Autocross Drag racing and autocross discussions and questions. Techniques, tips, suggestions, and "what will I run?" questions.

1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-11-2018, 09:27 AM   #101  
Supreme Member
 
skinny z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North of 49
Posts: 5,839
Car: 86 Sport Coupe


Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

Clearance with the Canton pan is excellent. I am running Hedman LT headers though so I can't comment on the room for the crossover pipe other than to say my understanding is that it is supposed to clear.
Speaking of headers, I have plenty of room to slip one in from the bottom (left side) and the other in from the top. Oil filter and starter (mini style from a late 90's pick up truck) are removed.

Last edited by skinny z; 04-11-2018 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Clarification
skinny z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2018, 08:06 PM   #102  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
garage_engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: MA
Posts: 53
Car: 1987 IROC-Z

Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

Nothing too crazy for an update today, just moving forward slowly with whatever time I can find... an hour here and an hour there will add up in the end (I hope!)

I finished up the repairs on my AC box and got a coat of paint on it. I taped off all of the factory labels to keep a close-to-stock look. The original box had a bit of a gray tint to it, but I think it's going to look sharp with the satin black.




My oil pump and oil pan also came in. As I talked about in my last post, I decided to go with a standard volume pump and an upgraded oil pan with a crank scraper, windage tray and 2 qts of additional volume. I got both the pump and the pan from Summit and so far they look like nice pieces... can't wait to get them installed! I'm just a little concerned with exhaust clearance as my Y-pipe crosses underneath the pan, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

My current pan on the left and Summit road racing pan on the right:






In case this might help someone, I have been using a few older books to do most of my research on which parts to buy and use on my engine. There is a TON of info out there to go with a TON of different options for things like oil pumps and harmonic dampeners. These books have helped me to realize that the stock systems on these motors are actually quite stout, which means I can save some money and not have to upgrade absolutely everything. All are good reads!


Lastly, I've started cleaning up my intake and getting it ready for paint. Nothing too exciting here, just scraping old RTV off of all the sealing surfaces:


My goal for the week is to get the engine buttoned up and ready for paint.. just need to install the new pump, pan an timing chain. I also want to check my cam specs (as best as I can) and then give it a good cleaning. Little by little I'm getting there!

PS - I'm looking to get a rendering of my car done... if anyone has any recommendations that would be appreciated. Thanks!
garage_engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2018, 07:44 AM   #103  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 2,244
Car: 92 Firebird
Engine: 4.8 LR4
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.45 9 Bolt


Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

I don't have that oil pan, but mine was kicked out on the sides, I wound up putting the Y pipe in the vice to make it oval to get it to fit with the non stock pan.
scooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2018, 06:37 PM   #104  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Tibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Desert
Posts: 4,232
Car: 1991 Z28 Vert
Engine: 383 single plane efi
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: waiting to break


Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

I have the same oil pan. It's a good pan for what I've been able to tell. Only thing I would say negatively about it is that the NPT threads on the plug take a considerable amount more of torque to seal unless you use a nylon washer. I have a copper washer on there currently and it is leaking past. I'll look up a torque spec and go a few ft/lbs past to see if that works.
Tibo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 07:32 PM   #105  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
garage_engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: MA
Posts: 53
Car: 1987 IROC-Z

Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibo View Post
I have the same oil pan. It's a good pan for what I've been able to tell. Only thing I would say negatively about it is that the NPT threads on the plug take a considerable amount more of torque to seal unless you use a nylon washer. I have a copper washer on there currently and it is leaking past. I'll look up a torque spec and go a few ft/lbs past to see if that works.
OK thanks for the tip, I'll have to keep an eye on that for sure.
garage_engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 07:34 PM   #106  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
garage_engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: MA
Posts: 53
Car: 1987 IROC-Z

Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

I was able to put in a few hours this weekend to make some progress. I feel like I'm not making must progress as all of this cleaning, prepping and stripping takes a long time with not much to show for it at the end of the day but it should be worth it when it's all said and done.

First task was getting my new oil pump installed. As I mentioned in a previous post, I am switching out the current high volume pump for a standard volume one. The one I got is from Summit and came in the kit with my new oil pan. Seems like nice piece (new one on the left):



First I worked on getting the pickup tube installed... what a battle that was! My first method was using a wrench around the neck of the pickup and hammering on the wrench (with the top half of pump braced against a piece of wood). That got it about halfway in, but I couldn't go any further. I was destroying the flange on the tube as well. I finally brought it to a local shop and they were nice enough to help get setup in press to finish the job.


Just as a note: we stopped where we did (not all the way seated) because it was just such a tight fit. I also decided it did not need to be welded because the fit was so tight and because the pickup tube is also bolted to the pump.

Before I took my old pump off, I verified clearance to the bottom of the pan as about 0.376". (Spec is 0.375 - 0.500"):


My new one came in with quite a bit larger gap... 0.650". This is on the high end, which I was a bit surprised with since the pickup was supplied with the pan. I'm going to call Summit this week to verify I got the right piece as there is no way to bend it to adjust the clearance.


I also checked the crank scraper clearance just to make sure there was no interference. It was tough to get a good measurement, but with some creative Play-doh placement I'm pretty confident the clearance is around 0.375". It could be tighter, but again there is no real easy adjustment to make here. Having the scraper will be better than nothing and I am happy there was no interference.


Next I pressed a new seal in my front cover and that installed it with a new gasket. My previous bolts had a ton of RTV in the threads so I chased those with a tap to clean them up a bit. I don't see why RTV in the threads would be necessary since these are blind holes, so I installed mine dry. If someone has done differently though please let me know.

Old seal coming out:


Chasing the threads to get rid of the old RTV:


Can't put old nasty bolts back on!
garage_engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 07:35 PM   #107  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
garage_engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: MA
Posts: 53
Car: 1987 IROC-Z

Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

Finally, I worked on some more paint prep. My goal was to keep my AL heads bare and unpainted, but I was worried I wouldn't be able to get them looking presentable. The previous owner has painted the block black and there was quite a bit of overspray:



I tried a bunch of different degreasers I had lying around, along with AL wheel cleaner and mineral spirits. The combo of the degreaser and a red scuff pad worked pretty well with some elbow grease. It left a "brushed AL" surface which I think is going to look pretty good.



Getting the block clean enough to have the tape stick and then masking everything off took forever! Very tedious work, but again, should be worth it. Almost ready to throw some primer on it. I know it's not the prettiest looking thing, but the plastic bags should get the job done!


Lastly, I also get the intake pieces cleaned up and almost ready for paint as well.


It seems like spring is finally here in New England (60 degrees today) so I'm hoping to sling some paint this week!

Thanks for following.
garage_engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2018, 07:35 AM   #108  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 2,244
Car: 92 Firebird
Engine: 4.8 LR4
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.45 9 Bolt


Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by garage_engineer View Post
Can't put old nasty bolts back on!
Chuck the bolts up in a cordless drill and you can spin them easily while you get them clean. Little less "puckery" if you do that too
scooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2018, 09:28 PM   #109  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
garage_engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: MA
Posts: 53
Car: 1987 IROC-Z

Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

I dug a little bit deeper into why my oil pump pickup had such a large gap to the bottom of my oil pan (I measured it at 0.650") when I ordered everything as a kit. I knew my engine would run fine with that clearance, but it was bugging me that it wasn't quite right and I wanted to do the job right since I had the engine out. I don't want to be worrying about my oil pump pickup when taking a sustained high-g corner, I have enough to worry about when out on the track!

I first double checked that all the parts I received were correct and confirmed that indeed they were. I then went about checking the measurements and here is where I ran into some issues.

The pan is listed as having an 8in deep sump and the pickup in the kit is correct for a pan of that depth. However, the pan is actually 8.25in deep:




When I spoke to someone from the Summit tech line, they said that these pans are hand welded which leads to some variances in pan depths sometimes. I understand that, but I can't see a pan depth tolerance of +/-0.25" being acceptable, especially since it's a critical part of getting the oiling system dialed in.

Fortunately though, I was able to speak with someone in customer service and have them send me a pickup designed for an 8.25" deep pan (part number MOR-24170) and a new oil pump free of charge.

So, it sucks I've lost some time on my project figuring this out, but a big thanks to Summit Racing for making it right. Maybe they can update their kits in the future so someone else doesn't experience the same problem.

Now, on to some actual progress... which unfortunately there is not much to report this week.

My biggest accomplishment was finally getting my engine painted. I used the Eastwood high-temp ceramic system for laying down the color. The kit was pricey (~$20/can) and seemed to leave a really nice durable finish.



The primer laid down nicely initially, but I found some small spots flaking and discolored in some areas. I tried to clean the block as best as I could before priming but I'm guessing this is due to some contamination:




There were no instructions on the can in terms of dry time so I called Eastwood for some instructions. Here is what they suggested in case someone else wanted to use the same system:
Primer Coat
Wait 10mins
Second Primer Coat
Wait 60mins
First Color Coat
Wait 10mins
Second Color Coat

All was going well into I got to my first color coat and something went wrong with the valve on the can... it started spraying all over the place and just dumping paint on the engine. Now, I'm not an expert painter, but I do know that thin coats are the way to go as opposed to big thick ones. However, I had no choice here as I had to go over to engine a bunch of times to cover everything with the irregular spray pattern. I was a little disappointed considering I paid $20/can. It seemed to dry OK though, I just hope it doesn't start chipping off when it gets hot.

My exploding red paint can:


Finished product:


That's all for tonight. My new oil pump and pickup should be here tomorrow so I button up the bottom end and move on to the top side.
garage_engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2018, 11:40 AM   #110  
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 593
Car: 1987 IROC-Z


Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

nice progress!!
IROCZman15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2018, 03:04 PM   #111  
Supreme Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Tibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Desert
Posts: 4,232
Car: 1991 Z28 Vert
Engine: 383 single plane efi
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: waiting to break


Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

When I'm painting a metal (engine) part that may have been exposed to oil I go over it with a propane torch to burn off the residue that may be in some of the porosity. Likely that was your problem. I remember going over engine blocks with acetone or carb cleaner to no end and it appears clean but once you put a flame on it you can hear some sizzle and observe some light smoking.
Tibo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2018, 11:31 AM   #112  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 4

Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

I dont know know why I hadn't seen this build before. Really like the direction it's headed - looks like it will be great fun when it's done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibo View Post
When I'm painting a metal (engine) part that may have been exposed to oil I go over it with a propane torch to burn off the residue that may be in some of the porosity. Likely that was your problem. I remember going over engine blocks with acetone or carb cleaner to no end and it appears clean but once you put a flame on it you can hear some sizzle and observe some light smoking.
And this is fantastic. Great tip sir.
Mork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 11:03 AM   #113  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
garage_engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: MA
Posts: 53
Car: 1987 IROC-Z

Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mork View Post
I dont know know why I hadn't seen this build before. Really like the direction it's headed - looks like it will be great fun when it's done.
Thanks for the comments, glad you'll be following along! Should have some updates coming soon... I've been bogged down by some spring house projects but should be back on the Camaro soon!
garage_engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 09:29 PM   #114  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
garage_engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: MA
Posts: 53
Car: 1987 IROC-Z

Re: 1987 Camaro "Pro-Touring" Budget Build

I've been side tracked a bit lately by lots of spring projects going on around the house but nonetheless I've been able to make a bit of progress on the car.

After painting the engine, I removed all of the masking and bolted up the oil pan for the last time, making sure to torque all of the bolts. Next came the harmonic balancer.There are a ton of options out there for balancers, everything from $50 stock replacements to $400 top-of-the-line ones. Again I went back to the books I've been using for reference, and ended up choosing a 6 3/4" SFI-approved balancer from Professional Products. The SFI approval means that it is tested for up to 10k RPM, which is way overkill for my engine but for the small extra price it was worth it to me for the peace of mind. This is a good, middle of the road balancer that fits in my budget and should work just fine for my needs.




Fresh ARP crank bolt:


Gotta paint the oil pan bolts before installing:


Bottom end buttoned up:


All was going along just great until I rotated the engine on my stand and noticed what a sh*tty job I had done with my paint job! Note to self, do not paint an engine upside down! I missed a ton of little spots that weren't visible when the engine was upside down but were right in your face when you turned it over:


So out comes the tape again to mask off the whole engine one more time to put on another coat of paint. Pain in the *** but you gotta do the job right!


After that was settled, I wanted to measure my cam specs before buttoning up the top end of the motor. I ended up having to take off a rocker and measure the lift off of a pushrod, since having the rockers installed resulted in my lifters collapsing and getting low readings (took me a while to figure that out!)


I measured duration at 0.050" by measuring the diameter of the balancer and converting that into degrees... not perfect but I thought it would at least get me in the ballpark.


Here are the approximate specs I came up with:
Intake: 0.480" lift; 223deg duration at 0.050"
Exhaust: 0.512" lift; 233deg duration at 0.050"

Stock cam specs for a ZZ4:
Intake: 0.474" lift; 208deg duration
Exhaust: 0.510" lift; 221deg duration

Based on how close these are, and knowing that my measurements aren't perfect, I'm assuming I have a stock cam. I also couldn't find any markings on the snout of the cam to give me a clue on who made it.

A few questions here for the experienced: I've been going back and forth about putting in a new cam. If I do, would I need to put in new lifters and remeasure for new pushrods? I already have nice 1.5 roller rockers from Crane. I know I would have to take off my oil pan and timing chain cover again but that's not a big deal, it's just time! The engine ran great when I removed it from the car so I'm hesitant to mess with a good thing. Thoughts?
garage_engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1987 IROC Camaro Pro-Touring Build garage_engineer Organized Drag Racing and Autocross 0 12-03-2017 08:38 PM
My pro touring build Brian100 Members Firebirds 3 10-13-2015 10:06 AM
Pro-Touring LSX/T56 91 Z28 Build Buggy Disaster Members Camaros 105 09-02-2015 01:35 PM
Pro-Touring Modernized 88 Iroc Build Buggy Disaster Members Camaros 15 07-04-2013 07:24 AM
pro-touring/Drag racing Camaro chassis,cage etc... Peteracer Canadian Region 0 09-30-2004 10:00 AM


Go Back   Third Generation F-Body Message Boards >

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Advertising
Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory

1982 Camaro '82 || 1983 Camaro '83 || 1984 Camaro '84 || 1985 Camaro '85 || 1986 Camaro '86 || 1987 Camaro '87 || 1988 Camaro '88 || 1989 Camaro '89 || 1990 Camaro '90 || 1991 Camaro '91 || 1992 Camaro '92


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:01 AM.


All content copyright 1997 - 2018 ThirdGen.org. All rights reserved. No part of this website may be reproduced without the expressed, documented, and written consent of ThirdGen.org's Administrators.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: