Organized Drag Racing and Autocross Drag racing and autocross discussions and questions. Techniques, tips, suggestions, and "what will I run?" questions.

Question about handling in a corner

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jun 13, 2024 | 04:44 PM
  #1  
QwkTrip's Avatar
Thread Starter
COTM Editor
25 Year Member
iTrader: (22)
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,437
Likes: 2,093
Car: '89 Firebird
Engine: 7.0L
Transmission: T56
Question about handling in a corner

This will be an easy question for some of you. I'm not experienced enough to know what's causing this.

I have a few corners I frequent on my drives where I am more confident than usual and push the car harder than I normally would. On tighter turns, about half way through the turn, my car feels like it begins to bite in more aggressive and the front tires actually pull the car into the inside of the corner with no extra steering input. It is so aggressive that I have to use less steering to keep from being pulled into the inside shoulder.

And the funny thing is, I don't think the car holds the road that good in the first half of the turn. It's like it "leveled up" in a game and is a different car half way through the corner.

What the heck causes that?
Reply
Old Jun 14, 2024 | 10:54 AM
  #2  
RJ IROC's Avatar
Member
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 128
Likes: 22
From: Saint Louis, Missouri
Car: 1985 Camaro IROC-Z
Engine: 383 HSR Comp XFI280HR Profiler 195s
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.73 Posi
Re: Question about handling in a corner

Without knowing much about your setup, I would guess bump steer could be an issue. I have 1" extended ball joints that creates this problem. The control arm is now lower on the arc than the steering linkage. Assuming the steering linkages are level at ride height, my control arms are pointing down. When the suspension compresses, the ball joint pivot moves farther towards the outside of the car than the steering pivot. This causes the outside wheel to toe in and turn the car more without additional steering input.

Lowered cars with stock suspension can have some degree of bump steer as well. Bump kits move the tie rod pivot down in an attempt to make the suspension/steering arcs parallel.

The mechanical design of the steering on these F bodies produces anti-ackermann. This means the outside wheel turns (toes in) the more you turn the steering wheel. Compounded with excessively long extended ball joints, my car loves to turn harder when the weight transfers without additional steering input.

Have you aligned the front end recently? Anything aftermarket like sway bars, spindles, etc.?
Reply
Old Jun 14, 2024 | 02:36 PM
  #3  
LiquidBlue's Avatar
Supreme Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,194
Likes: 246
From: Austin, TX
Car: 90 Formula / T-tops
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: MD8
Re: Question about handling in a corner

Originally Posted by QwkTrip
And the funny thing is, I don't think the car holds the road that good in the first half of the turn. It's like it "leveled up" in a game and is a different car half way through the corner.
What the heck causes that?
Might be your tires warming up. I've noticed similar behavior on my usual "ultimate driving machine", which I often push to the limits. The tires on that car are a bit older, I just don't drive that many miles a year on it, so tread is good, just probably getting a little stiffer from age, (like all of us), and needs some warming up (like all of us). I often dream of just replacing them anyway. They don't see much sunlight, but still getting up in years.

Last edited by LiquidBlue; Jun 14, 2024 at 02:40 PM.
Reply
Old Jun 15, 2024 | 12:01 PM
  #4  
ShiftyCapone's Avatar
Supporter/Moderator
25 Year Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 13,775
Likes: 567
From: Cincinnati, OH
Car: '90 RS
Engine: 377 LSX
Transmission: Magnum T56
Re: Question about handling in a corner

QWK, I too experience this. Its as if the rear is pivoting the car and the nose just keeps digging in. It hooks and goes and you are turning out of it before you know. Combine that with the sloppy steering feel these cars have make it an awkward feel, like "how is it turning even more". If that makes sense. I have a bump stop kit but I think my non square tire setup also contributes to this.
Reply
Old Jun 29, 2024 | 11:27 AM
  #5  
QwkTrip's Avatar
Thread Starter
COTM Editor
25 Year Member
iTrader: (22)
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,437
Likes: 2,093
Car: '89 Firebird
Engine: 7.0L
Transmission: T56
Re: Question about handling in a corner

Interesting, so apparently this is not uncommon.

I wish I was better at figuring this stuff out but it's kind of mind-bending to me.
Reply
Old Jun 29, 2024 | 02:50 PM
  #6  
AlkyIROC's Avatar
Moderator
25 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 17,271
Likes: 171
From: 51°N 114°W, 3500'
Car: 87 IROC L98
Engine: 588 Alcohol BBC
Transmission: Powerglide
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"/31 spline spool/4.86
Re: Question about handling in a corner

Spring rates can really affect how a car handles. For a smooth comfortable daily driver ride, you normally use a soft spring. For more stability especially in corners, a stiffer front spring rate is used to keep the front end from diving from weight transfer. The downside is that it also creates a stiffer ride. Along with stiffer springs, a thicker front sway bar may help.

Also sounds like you have some oversteer issues.
Reply
Old Jun 29, 2024 | 03:46 PM
  #7  
Tom 400 CFI's Avatar
Supreme Member
25 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,228
Likes: 806
From: Park City, UT
Car: '92 Corvette, '89 1/2-a-'Vette
Engine: LT1, L400
Transmission: ZF6, T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45, 3.31
Re: Question about handling in a corner

Originally Posted by QwkTrip
This will be an easy question for some of you. I'm not experienced enough to know what's causing this.

I have a few corners I frequent on my drives where I am more confident than usual and push the car harder than I normally would. On tighter turns, about half way through the turn, my car feels like it begins to bite in more aggressive and the front tires actually pull the car into the inside of the corner with no extra steering input. It is so aggressive that I have to use less steering to keep from being pulled into the inside shoulder.

And the funny thing is, I don't think the car holds the road that good in the first half of the turn. It's like it "leveled up" in a game and is a different car half way through the corner.

What the heck causes that?
Tires getting warmer, IMO. The 'Vettes do the same thing (on the street). Take it to a track, get the tires WARMED UP, and you'll see that the "handling" gets consistent and predictable. You should take it to a track...anyway.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SDIF
Suspension and Chassis
3
Oct 16, 2007 09:05 PM
91_5.7_TPI
Suspension and Chassis
5
Sep 16, 2005 06:37 AM
camaro_junkie
Suspension and Chassis
6
Jun 17, 2004 10:07 PM
whitecamrs
V6
25
Jun 2, 2004 08:19 PM
babyIroc87
Electronics
2
Oct 2, 2002 01:45 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:13 AM.