Basically what it comes down to, is that the car itself cannot get up my driveway. I dont know what's up with it, but it just runs outta muscle goin up it, it feels as if first gear was like 5th goin up it. Torque Arm related?? or clutch?

 

Did you adjust anything on the engine since you brought the car home?

Doesn't sound like the same level of power you were so impressed with earlier...

 

I'm no expert on suspensions or clutches, but I'd bet you're bushing would have to be totally shot for it to make a dramatic effect on casual daily driving. As long as it isn't disintegrated and it holds the torque arm down it should be "okay."

Does it clunk when you shift, accelerate, brake, etc.?

How's the clutch feel? Did the power suddenly drop off or did you notice it lacking over the last couple of weeks?

I don't know how steep your driveway is, but unless you have really long gears and tall tires, 200 lb-ft should get you up anything a camaro can drive (fit) over.

Does the engine run and rev easily? Maybe you've got something choking power... cats, filter, injector(s)? I guess it won't be float related on a tpi....

She can't get up your driveway at all? Or does she just have trouble doin' it?

Scott

 

Ok, the power feels the same as it always had, but it's just not really on the low end, once it gets rev'ed up, the engine makes loads of power, its just at the low end where its lacking. My driveway is considerably steep, steeper than say 45 degrees, the car will get up about halfway till it stalls out.(this is me flooring the car in first, it feels like trying to start in fifth gear). I only have this problem going up really steep hills. On flat ground, it's totally fine, but on a slant it gets kinda rough, but as i said once it gets rev'ed on a slant it makes plenty power. Yes it does clunk when braking/ accelerating. Idk what's really up with it though. Either the thing is tuned solely for top end, or somethings drastically wrong w/ clutch or the torque arm aint workin right, in the end, I've got no real idea on what to do about it. :/

 

To answer does it rev easy question, on flat terrain, yes it operates completely fine, but up a hill oh man it's a pain in the *** to rev it in first from a stop.

 

Oh, I meant free-revving in neutral. But, I understand what you mean now.

Does the stalling or struggling make any difference with a full tank versus half or less?

If something isn't majorly wrong, you're going to need shorter gearing at the least. Do you know what your axle ratio is now? How tall are your tires?

What is the engine again? A tpi right? Something about tpi+ no low end just doesn't seem right....

Do you have a safe, flat area to jack the car up? You should check under there and see how bad the bushing is. If it's clunking, that's bad. Maybe it's loose and tightening it up could help a little until you replace it.

 

You know, it could very well be a fuel problem... would anything done crappily during a 305-350 swap relate to this?

 

The lack of low-speed response might be normal for the way your car is setup.

You need to have an experienced Z-28 stick-shift pilot drive your car around and evaluate it.

Just guessing, but here's my 2-cents:

1. Drive up the hill faster, trying to crawl up a 45-degree [really!!?] incline at 500 rpm ain't gonna work -- especially if: [a] you have a 5 liter, not a 5.7 which has gobs more torque, [b] the car has anything less than a 3.27 rear, [c] the engine has an aftermarket cam with the power band moved higher in the engine range, or [4] all of the above.

2. If the top end power is good, you probably don't have fuel problems. So, altering how you manage the clutch and gas pedal as you approach the incline is most likely the key -- welcome to the wild world of manual clutches. Slipping the clutch will allow the engine to develop more power and prevent stalling. Slipping the clutch too much will wear it out too soon. The correct technique involves feathering the clutch enough to engage it to a full lockup and keep the rpms high enough not to stall the engine.

There's nothing worse than being in stick-shift automobile trapped in heavy traffic, waiting on a severe incline for several cars in front to move through a stop sign one-by-one. Adding to your woes is a granny-driver who insists on tailgating your car each time the daisy-chain of cars lurches forward. If you miss the clutch and roll back, you damage the car in back ... if you stall the engine everyone gets hostile and starts yelling "baka". The top of Piikoi where the street ends in a T-intersection at Punchbowl is a good one!

The trick here is when the line of traffic starts to move forward, use the emergency brake to hold the car, while reving the engine and slipping the clutch only enough to hold the car motionless on the incline, usually around 1,500-2,000 rpm, as the space opens in front, increase the rpms and let the clutch out more, simultaneously releasing the emergency brake. Be ready to grab the E-brake fast if the engine stalls.

Practice this, you'll need it. If you think it's tough, imagine doing it in an 18-wheeler...

Sigh, good fun, I'm all jealous....

 

Hehe... so, how many of you guys are experienced z-28 stick shift pilots willin to give me their point of view?

i've heard that they give out actual licenses for these guys hehe....

Maybe I'll get one soon... once I get the car safety checked and everything.


Ed, about the clutch thing... it very well could be clutch related, if not solely that. The previous owner changed the clutch, showed the reciepts and everything for it, but i wonder of how good a job the installer did, knowing that he said it was a 5.7 due to some sort of transmission thing.

 

Since you have the receipts, go visit the installer, make him your friend. He can give many insights to the condition of the drivetrain. Changing clutch and pressure plates is easy, if you have a lift, takes about 2-3 hours for lazy grease-monkeys. wish I had a stick in my IROC, instead of an automatic, so much fun I'd even give up driving with my big coffee cup in one hand, heh [the IROC fast steering box makes it possible...]. Be aware that at some point in time clutches wear out and need to be replaced.

 

To help you diagnose those things, you should find out a few simpler things that I'm sure you'd like to know anyway.

Find out:

-your rear gear ratio (RPO or rotate-and-count)
-engine size (casting number)
-induction mods (no low end but strong top end sounds odd but it's relative)
-bushing/mount condition

While a worn suspension can eat more power from the wheels, we'd really have to see how bad your bushing is and how steep this driveway really is, hehe. Does it rise and turn?

The steepest part of my driveway requires that I get on the gas very quickly if I'm going up from a stop... but I usually just swing in there from 15~30 mph so I never notice it.

 

Well the difficult thing about my driveway, is that its about 80 ft long, at a 45 or steeper degree incline, if you guys ever seen a graph of a root function(lol precalculus, cmon we've all been here at some point in time), it has similar curvature, just steeper. Plus, to get into it, i have to make a left turn, and its a real sharp turn too, so im basically goin up it from a total stop. I believe i either have 3.23s or a 3.08, i'll go run the rpo again. Also, my air-induction system as of now is somehwat shot. I talked about it earlier, the whole plastic intake thingy(the thing that comes directly out of the throttle body with the plate tuned port injection on it) shaped like a Y is broken on one side pretty good, idk how much of an effect it has though. Oh yeah, where can the engine csating number be found???

 

Also, seeing as my old RS always scraped goin up it, and that my Z is lower... a lot lower.... I'm not too sure altogether that I really want it to go up the driveway....

on a side note, never drive around the backstreets between kapiolani and king st. there are soo many goddamn dips in the road its annoying, I believe i've scraped majorly from careless driving/ it was at night, couldnt see the dip in the road.

 

If your intake tract is cracked, tape it up for now. That's not your problem so you can take your time finding a replacement.

I have 3.23's and just over 28" rear tires, and I keep her in second through most of my hill (maunalani heights). One-third of my driveway is pretty steep and I need to have my foot down pretty far (either gas or brake) if I'm stopped in that area. Unless you do a lot of highway driving, having anything lower (numerically) than 3.42's suck. I call my 3.23's tolerable....

I believe the casting number that you need is on the drivers side, upper rear on the block.

And you really must have a wicked driveway! Especially if a 350 tpi doesn't have adequate low end for it, hehe! Seriously though, how did your RS compare on your driveway? It was close to stock, right?

Scott

 

The RS went up fine, In either 1 or 2, unless it was raining.... And I'm pretty much sure that it was stock, but i haven't ever been in another RS so I cannot say for sure.

The Z28 is wayy faster, but it feels like the whole powerband is shifted more up the rpm range than the RS was. Then again, my clutch could just be ****ty, or i just suck at goin up hills. On one part of my hill though, relatively steep, maybe 45 degree angle, the Z struggled at first, but as I gave gas, the RPMS rose, as did the power output. I had the same prob goin up my driveway, but the RPMS just didnt really rise fast enough to overcome the force of gravity.

 

I guess what really gets me is that my grandma's 4 cyl. camry can go up it, but my Camaro cannot.....

 

I think we should all go over to your place & each take turns driving your car up & around the block to "test" everything out

 

And when we're done, we'll then take turns driving our own cars up your driveway to see who can get up the easiest!

Also, most 4 bangers have pretty short gearing in first and usually through second. My mom's '04 corolla feels like it has a little bit of ***** in first... and feels like they both fall off in second.

Maybe you should upgrade to 3.73's or 4.10's (unless you're on the highway a lot).

Scott

 

Ok guys, this whole low end power issues got me really stumped. Plus, I've taken a look at my torque arm and the bushings, and they're intact, leaving me clueless as to what this clunking noise is, and what's bogging my motor down.

Also, my dashboard lights don't work at night, so I can't tell how fast im goin or what my revs are.... anyone know what could be the problem here?

Anyways, thanks guys, you've all been invaluably helpful, lets hope by the end of this year all of our cars work properly hehe..

 

That's the goal here!

Check all your bushings. Could be a sway bar bushing. How and when does it thump or pop? Maybe it's a mount.

Do your dash lights ever work? Did they just recently go out? Do all your tail lamps work? You've checked all your fuses right? I don't think camaros have dimmer switches....

You'll have to give a pretty specific description of which bulbs work and when. I don't remember which are on which circuits anymore- I forgot them all after I fixed mine.

At least you can judge your speed by your ear and gear right?

Sears has a pretty good (for a novice) multimeter on sale for $21.

Don't give up!

Scott

 

Does it have both high and low ohm ranges? Most cheap multimeters omit the low ohm range, and without it you can't read the 0-90 ohm variable resistance of sending units.

 

It should read low, but I don't know how accurately. I've got the model under it, which was on sale for like $10.49. I think it'd be within 2~3% or so; maybe you could check it against a standard or a higher quality unit.

I know that my Checker meter can be off by a couple percent, but I've never needed extremely accurate information yet.

Here's the one on sale-
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...id=03482139000



(There are buttons up top that change the range, rather than the dial. It also has some temperature function....)

Home depot always carries a couple for a decent price if sears sells out.

Scott

 

Thanks, I'll go browse the Craftsman meters Thursday, I'd like to have something to accurately measure amps too...

 

Just practice feathering the clutch and gas until you can maintain higher rpm's up that hill. Dont be afraid to blast it man!! hehehe. The clunk on accelerate or brake could be the transmission mount. That happened to me once (89 RS w/ 700R4 clunk on accelerate) Twist the headlight **** left and right to change the dimmer settings. If you do suspect a weird fuel issue due to a 5.0 to 5.7 swap it could possibly be the injectors. LB9's came with 19#, L98 with 22#. If someone just swapped the stock TPI on a 350 it could happen. But it dosnt sound like it from reading your experiences. You would be affected throughout the entire powerband.

 

If you do have the 305 injectors feeding the 350, I have an extra set of 22# 350 injectors that came out of a nice running TPI motor...

 

K guys, thanks for all the advice, seems kind of like it is the transmission mount now that I think of it, the noise comes more from the center console area than the rear end. At the same time, the gear shifter often vibrates along with the clunk, when it does clunk at least. I also sometimes get some grinding when I go into reverse, idk i think this clutch itself is crap-installed....

Tried the dimmer settings etc. didn't do anything. the one thing on the dashpad that does come on, is the shift light, leading me to think that either the bulbs are fuzzled or the circuits jacked up. Or, as my neighbor pointed out, someone could've screwed up installing the aftermarket deck (previous owner probably), and messed it up that way too.

Someone told me that the loss of low end power could be due to loss of compression.... that would suck, but im not too sure this is a legitamate reason still yet.

It definately feels like it could either be a fuel problem, or the engine itself isn't getting enough air. Goin down the freeway at like 55, in fifth gear flooring the throttle in this car doesn't exactly make it accelerate noticably at all. first, second third and fourth all feel pretty strong, but their low ends all kinda suck. nothing really gets goin until i go up from around 1100-1200 rpms, on the later gears 1500.

Oh well, im gonna take the z to my uncles shop on saturday and putit up on a hydraulic lift, look for the clunk noise, and check the engine compression etc.

 

Sounds like fun - I'm sure to have a blast trying to get my Camaro dash cluster to work right, with a Firebird harness and all that. I really want to avoid cutting and splicing wires, at any cost.

 

There are articles about how to bring dash clusters back from the dead, I have them if anyone is interested [after of course the requestor has used the "search function" here on the website].

 

Lack of low-end torque could be a result of the engine being 305 vs 350. Check the block number first...

 

Idk Ed, even if it was a 305, or an anemic 350, my L03 seemed a lot torquier on the low end... in contrast to revs and consistency at least... maybe its' cause it was an auto and I could floor it right out.... not too sure.

In anycase, with my foot to the floor goin up a 40 degree slant hill, I am only able to maintain my speed of 25mph for about 10 seconds while the engine winds up then I get a gradually slow acceleration, its as if I were to start the car in 4th or 5th gear or something, thats the feeling. From what people tell me, I shouldnt be feeling this in second, or even first for that matter. On flat terrain, the car is totally fine, but the low end seems lacking, the motor pulls real good once its in its powerband though, and what a funky powerband that is.

Did some RPO code runnin today, ends up I got a GU4, 3.08 final gear drive.(pretty sure its posi, or does it come open?)

 

oh yeah, just as a "i wonder" kinda question...

my car has 225 tires on it now, how much of a diff would i feel with 245s? My RS had 245s but no tread, and my Z has 225s brand new (i didnt buy em, they came w/ the car) some generic brand "warrior" or something. Jes wonderin if I should even both gettin new tires or leave these ones on, they kinda have huge sidewalls.

At the same time, is there a ride height diff between the RS and the Z28, i swear my Z will scrape the air dam wherever i go, while the RS only did so on steep inclines i.e. steep driveways, etc.?

 

Yeah there could be a difference in ride height. Aside from the whole age issue (could be sagging springs, ect) there were different suspension setups between RS and Z28/IROC. Look for the F41 or FE2 RPO's.

As for the tires, you would only feel a difference when racing or driving hard. The 245's would have a bigger contact patch so grip better.

 

Something is seriously wrong -- the torque of both my 5.7 TPIs in 1st or 2nd gear will burn the hides off the rear tires on a steep incline at WOT, and then continue to increase in power output to redline.

Assuming your engine has sufficient torque, it's apparently not being transferred to the rear wheels. I suspect the clutch. Can you "pop" the clutch in first gear and spin the tires?

 

judging from the fact that the clutch is supposedly "new", and that there's a rattling noise coming from the transmission area, I am led, along with your suspicions, to believe that the problem indeed lies with the clutch.... which blows.

I have yet to honestly launch the car. Will get back to you on that though.

Could a crappy clutch install lead to this?

 

Absolutely.

I believe your clutch linkage is hydraulic, if so and the hydraulic cylinder is in good shape, it sounds like a replacement is needed to cure excessive slippage. Make sure a matched clutch and pressure plate is installed, along with a new throwout bearing.

Have the "mechanic" that did the clutch install previously check it. You do have the receipt, right?

 

yup i got the receipt.

 

What are the tire sizes? All four are the same size?

You WILL feel a difference if the tire diameter is grossly different, but Shawn is right, you won't notice an extra 3/4" per tire of contact patch unless you're pushing it hard. Different rubber will make a much bigger difference than a different size.

Warriors are nothin' bad but nothin' special, just a regular passenger tire. They are good for two things- basic travel from point a to point b, and smokin' 'em up. Once you're done, don't EVER put "warriors" on your car again - ever.

How much of a clearance difference is there between your Z and RS? Z's should always have a much firmer and mildly lower suspension than an RS. (I guess RS's can be optioned with the good suspension also, right?) The air dam could also be different, but probably not. A firmer spring will probably "sag" less than a softer one, but worn struts could cause the same symptoms.

I personally think you're scraping everywhere and everything because of a worn suspension. If anything is stock- it's bad. If you come out to the next cruise, you can compare your suspension and ride height to the rest of ours, and we can help you check what's specifically good or bad.

Scott

 

That's part of the problem, not all of it.

3.08 is a granny gear. ("Highway gears" are more PC.) You want at least 3.4:1 with regular height tires. Posi will definately help you out on hills- at least when it's slick out. Is G80 the posi RPO? I don't know, someone else should have that one on the top of their head.

What rpm range is the strongest? Make a few runs from zero and wind out a couple gears without looking at your speed or the tach, and just remember "where" it felt the strongest. (A good ear helps.) Then do it a couple more times and glance down to see what it reads while you have the strongest ***-dyno reading.

Since it's fine up top, I doubt it's an air or fuel probelm. Could still be a spark problem I guess... you never know.

Assuming it's a 350 in fair condition, I'm leaning towards two possible problems.

First- bad tuning. I don't know jack about FI so maybe some injectors need to be cleaned or rebuilt, maybe the computer is out of whack. (305 ECM? Is there a difference?) Timing problem?

Second- Horribly matched cam. You might only have a short usable powerband if it has "too much" cam for your otherwise stock intake & heads combo. You can check that by taking your valve covers off. I don't know how much trouble that is on a TPI, but on a carb it's a 15 second job. Check the vavletrain for "stockness." If it looks aftermarket at all, you probably have a different cam. You can measure the lift at either the pushrod end, or the valve stem end, then do a little math. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I've never had to measure this crap before.

Now that you know your rear gear, you just have to find out the bore.

Good luck.

Scott

 

I love how you wrote that warrior line scott, gave me a good laugh.

But yeah, the tires are kinda bizzare, they're made out of some real hard-*** material (obviously rubber, but nowhere near as soft as my ol 245 potenzas).

In anycase what's a good cheap tire to put on after my warriors die out? I've heard things about Kumho stuff, but idk... I guess Dae Woo and Hyundai turn me off from all Korean automotive related things...

 

The Bridgestone Potenzas have been real nice on both my Camaros for a couple years now. I push 'em hard and they just keep on going... I especially like the rim guards...

 

Khumo's are okay from what I've heard, so are Yokohama's, but then you can get some Mickey Thompson DOT Drag tires, and TRY to do a burnout...

 

What if your fuel pump just hates shoving the fuel uphill? *shrug*

 

Plausible... good thinking, Ian.

 

Of course, if the car hates accelerating at a breakneck pace on solid ground, that would support that theory - fuel has mass and thus inertia, and hard accelerations may make the pump work harder to shove it through the lines, even though the sump is... in the back of the tank, right? My neat-o hot rod book mentioned that, especially if you're popping some wheelies coming out of the hole and running pretty hot. I don't know if a stock pump would have problems - flog the car down the track and see if it stalls out or whatnot...! Good excuse to lay some rubber down, anyway.

Now that I think about it, well, I don't know.

 

40-50 PSI doesn't care where it goes -- it just goes and there's no floats to get in the way with TPI. If the car has good top-end power, the fuel pump is working ok.

I'm curious if the engine is bogging down under load and losing rpm the gearing or engine tune is bad -- if the rpms go up with the clutch out and gas pedal down -- that's a clutch slipping...

Hey, maybe the car isn't happy ...

 

Hehe thanks for all the help guys, hopefully I can have this all sorted out tommorow... gonna go to the shop after I take my goddamn SAT's (I hate these tests... pointless I think).

Ive got another question though, unrelated to engine/drivetrain though. It's about rust.... Ive got some surface rust on the roof of the car, its underneath a coat of black primer, but is seeping through sort of now. I was reading your guy's acid treating thread and was wondering if that Jasco Stuff could be used on the body of the car... I would have to take the primer off though before hand correct? I'll try to put some pics up of all the damage areas on the car, as soon as I get my digital camera to work right...