Well, what do you know, the day I buy the car, it dies on me. When I attempt to start it up, I push the clutch in, turn the ignition, and I get a click click click... no motor turnin over.. Not too sure what's wrong, I figured it was the battery, so I tried to jump it, but was unsuccessful. I'm thinkin it's the starter, and am gonna pick one up from Checker's tommorow. Only prob now is replacing it, and figuring out if i need a 5.7L starter or a 5.0L starter. Will a 305 starter fire up a 350?!

 

If not the battery, it is probably the solenoid or cable.

Come back with the block number to determine if it's a 5.7.

 

Hmmm...I don't think there was any difference in the starters between the 305 and 350. Also on a side note you can also use a LT1 starter on your motor. It's a lot quiter on start up and also is lighter and smaller.

 

K I just bought a 350 starter since it was the cheapest, 52.99 from Checker's. Gonna try to install it tommorow, hopefully I can get the car back running again.

 

make sure it was a 5 speed starter..... They have a different nose than the auto ones. VERY IMPORTANT, THEY WILL NOT SWAP. later

 

I agree with Ed.

Check all your cables first, make sure it isn't grounding where it shouldn't be. If that doesn't fix it, then use a remote starter (directly jump the solenoid) and see what happens. Have the ignition on when you try it and have someone holding the clutch and brake or whatever needs to be done.

What is your battery voltage connected with the key off or with the battery disconnected? If it's really weak it could be the battery, but you'd probably notice other problems before a no-start problem.

Let us know.

Scott

 

okay, i found out its the battery... My former jumpcables were pretty faulty. The car will now start if jumped, but will die if the throttle is not applied. I'm pretty much thinking that the battery is totally out of juice. I'm gonna try see if Checker's will replace it for me as per their warranty hehe. On a side note, could this be an alternator issue..?

 

I just had to replace the alternator on my camaro. I knew the battery was getting a little old, but wasn't quite time for replacement. Not sure about Checkers, but I know a couple of the parts places by me will test the alternator for you. I'd suggest buying the battery, but also having the alternator tested while you're there.

 

Oh okay, I read your other post first.

If you have a charger, just let it trickle charge overnight and that'll give it some usable juice, might charge it all the way. Otherwise, take it to Checker when you have some spare time, because they will need to charge it up for at least 20-30 minutes before they can warranty it for you. Usually they say 45+ minutes if it's low. They just take my word for it now rather than wait. If you don't have a charger and they say it's fine, just ask them to charge it up for you.

Did you buy the battery yourself? Or did that come with the z28? You need to have a phone number (or receipt) for them to warranty it, and the standard one is a free 1-year replacement. If you don't have those, just use a number of someone who bought their battery within the last year and they probably won't check the side dates.

Read the alternator voltage with the car idling if you can get it. See if it jumps around. Make sure all the connections are good. Do you have v-belts or an s-belt? Might need to be tightened up, so your alt isn't putting out enough to compensate for the battery until it gets more rpm's. And either way, go take it to get tested at Checker.

They will bench test alts and starters for you, and <b>HAVE THEM TEST IT TWICE IN A ROW!</b> I've been stranded before because their machine will show 'Good' on the first try....

Good luck.

 

Ok, the car died... again. Started her up, drove her around the block, came back home, tried to fire it up again.... dead. Took battery to checkers, had it recharged... drove around some again after charged, battery died again... but much faster this time...

What gives?

I'm thinkin it's the alternator or something shorted along the electrical line, anyone care to shed some light on my problem?

 

Still sounds like the battery. A fully charged battery will last for hours even with accessories on. The Battery could be shorted internally. Its easy enough to check the alt voltage. that will eliminate that issue. The only other cause could be a loose or bad battery cables, loose ground or loose connections on the starter/or bad starter. I would suspect the battery, or the cables. Just because the battery is new doesnt mean its any good. I got 3 bad alternators in a row. I thought there had to be some crazy gremlin in my car. I took it to the dealer to have them completely check it out and it was the alt. The dealer part was twice as much but it was worth it after replacing the checker alt 3 damn times. Although i will admit i am now the alt replacing master

 

how hard is it to check alternator voltage?

 

I remember an old school way of checking the alternator. While the car is running you disconnect the battery. Car should still run if the alternator is good. But......I don't know if that applies to our cars or if it would screw anything up. Just a thought

 

Did you get a new battery or just have them charge the old one?

 

checkers just charged it... so far, its been charged twice, and needs a third charge right now. I'm considering buying both a new battery and alternator right now.. not too sure yet though...

 

Also, would having misplaced fuses cause battery drain? I looked at the fuse box and there was a single burnt fuse, and a couple fuses mixed up, like a 30 amp in a 20 amp, and vice versa.

 

Best way to determine if the battery is bad is to trade it with a battery from one of your other cars. If the "new" battery goes dead, there is a drain or the alternator is not charging.

 

Electrical problems... just like when I got my car!

Do things step by step to eliminate everything you can. That'll make things easier for you, cost you less, and you'll learn a lot in the process.

First, don't do the unplug-the-battery-while-running test on newer cars. I haven't seen anything bad happen personally, but I keep hearing bad things about computer controlled cars. I'd say our f-bodies are semi-comp comtrolled, so it may be fine. Either way, it could kill your alternator if it isn't broken now. Anyway, there are easier tests for that- read on.

Second, do you have other transportation? If you don't, you need to carry a few extra things with you in your car at all times. Obviously jumper cables (long, thick, clean ones will help a lot). If you have one of those "jumper packs" keep it with you and keep it charged up. If you happen to have another good battery with you, keep that charged and in the hatch. (You can use the cables to jump yourself... I've done that before....) Carry some fuses with you also, just in case. 10A and 20A are the most common.

Third, go buy a multimeter. The Checker one will work fine. Get a digital one, I think you can get them for $20~25, but you might need to print out the partsamerica.com price. You can do a lot of testing with this, and if you get a simple test light you'll have everything you need to check most of you car. Sears probably has a decent one too, but don't buy the cheapest couple of models- they break easy. Just make sure you get a digital one, it's much easier to read.

Read through the multimeter instructions so you know how it works (or at least know how not to break it.) We can explain more if you aren't sure. I can do into detail about what to do next, but I need to get back to work for right now.

Don't worry about the fuses for right now, but make sure none are "larger" than the suggested amperage. I had one or two like that when I got my car, and it was fine for a long time but I just switched it to make sure I didn't fry anything else or start a fire. If some are burnt out, that might be a part of the problem (but won't be as long as they are burnt). Tell us which ones are bad.

The next time you take your stuff to Checker, do these:

1) Ask what the CCA is of your battery (after they charge it, or after they give it back to you as "good.")

2) Take your alternator with you, and have them check it TWICE. Ask for a printout of each. Don't be afraid to ask for anything.

3) If they aren't busy, you could get someone to help you track it down a little, but don't expect much. One of the guys offered to help me but I didn't want to waste either of our time.

Scott

 

Oh, forgot to add this.

With your multimeter, check the voltage (DCV) on the cable(s) coming off the alternator. At idle, it should be at least 12.5V unless you've got a REALLY low-*** idle. After some tip in, it should be above 13.5V. This is on the LOW end. Any lower than that I wouldn't drive it far....

If you get over 13 at idle, and over 14 off-idle, you're good. The dash gauge is a "rough guide," but you can keep an eye on that while driving around.

Always remember to tighten your connections with wrenches, never just hand tight. Always check your belt tension.

Good luck.

Scott

 

Gearheads need at least ONE good battery to eliminate questions about "is it good...or," so take the plunge and get a spiral wound red-top from Costco ... $100 bucks and no more battery problems for quite a while.

The alternator is more difficult. Gotta make a decision whether or not to go with el-cheapo lifetime at the Checkers merry-go-round or pop for a more expensive custom unit. I'd opt for the Checkers 'cause you'll eventually get lucky and hook a good one.

Then -- use the voltmeter to determine if you have a constant drain on the battery when the ignition is off, like from a frayed wire or bad connection. Of course the ECM will draw some juice to stay alive and it's not recommended to turn it off with a drag-race power switch 'cause it will go into learn-mode every startup.

 

Hey guys, just wonderin if any of ya could help me with my other issue...

ENS-31111 or ENS-31112... Which Torque Arm Bushing do I need?

Oh yes, and thank you all for your continued support in aiding me with my electrical issues, it does mean a lot. I doubt I could find any other place with such a friendly open aired enviornment.


The main issue with the fuses was that the interior light fuse had a 25 amp fuse in it, when it needed only a twenty, and that the AC fuse had a 30 amp in it, while the foglight fuse had a 20 amp in it...

Could the above be a cause for battery drain?

Scott, thanks for all the advice, I carry my jump cables everywhere with me since i killed the battery on my RS.... now that car had no problems at all with anything... friggin immaculate for 1600 bucks. I do however enjoy the Z a lot more, but wish it were free of all the electrical issues...

 

Bigger fuses won't drain the battery, but they can cause a fire somewhere by not blowing out when they should when there's a short. The problem starts when the proper rated fuses blow and instead of finding out and fixing the high resistance caused by the malfunctioning electrical component or poor connection, larger capacity fuses are installed instead. Install the proper rating and if they blow, fix the problem. Any car more than ten years old will begin to have significant electrical problems due to poor connections and in 3rdGens the original wiring is often not as good as it should be -- this is why people upgrade the headlight wiring before installing new halogen lights -- and also why new, larger gauge wiring to the window motors bring those puppys back to life. Also, many of the ground connections build up high resistance, so clean them and retighten using silicon lube to prevent future corrosion.

Here's how to check for battery drain:

With the car running, run a volt meter across the battery posts, to determine the alternator charge rate. It should be around the 14.5v mark. Less than 13.5v and you need a new alternator.

If the alternator was running at, say, 13v, this would be enough power to run the car's electrics and "trickle" charge the battery, therefore the car would run fine but the battery would only receive enough charge for a couple of days.

There is also the possibility that you have a short circuit somewhere, draining the battery slowly. A very simple check of this would be to first make sure everything is off. The stereo unplugged (the memory is still a drain) and all. Charge ther battery up. Next, disconnect the negative wire on the battery. Touch it on the negative post a few times, and if you see a spark, that means there is something draining the battery somewhere.

If you are sure your battery is good, you can narrow down which circuit the draw is on by disconnecting the negative cable at the battery, then put a 12v test light inline (between the cable and the battery terminal), if there is a draw (make sure the door is closed or disconnect the door jam switch), the light will light up. If it does light, then start pulling fuses, one at a time, until the light goes out (the radio memory draw is not enough to light the light), then you know which circuit the draw is on, now you need to reinstall the fuse, the light will light up again, now start disconnecting the items on the circuit(you may need a wiring diagram to detemine what is on all on the circuit), the odds are that one device is killing your battery and your other problems may not be related, but first fix the drain and go from there.

 

See? This is why you needed two cars. You'd still have that nice RS to drive while you work on your Z28. Oh well, maybe your parents will listen to you next time. (Just don't let them say, "I told you not to buy that piece of junk.")

Ed is right on all those points. That's less for me to type!

Replace your fuses with the correct rating, if it blows, just leave it blown or fix the circuit/device. Tell us which ones are doin' that.

Check your voltage on the battery isolated, then with it connected and nothing turned on. Then again in 'on,' and idling, and off-idle.

Once you get the hang of using the voltmeter, you can start doin' some resistance reading. Resistance might not be your problem, but it isn't helping any. It also helps finding shorts. I need to replace a few major cables right away also.

Ed's "spark test" works in most circumstances. Usually I just hear relays clicking while it's sparkin'.

If you do need a new alternator, I'd recommend a Checker piece o' crap unit. You can't beat the price, and anytime it breaks just swap it. (We might be competing for the same part if they don't stock enough... haha. Is yours a one-wire?) Remember, they are open every day, open late, and close by. Hard to beat that. I bought a better one before the checker alt, and it lasted much longer but with a 1 year warranty I was screwed after about... 1 year.

Sears also carries red tops but $100 is a much better price. I need to get ahold of a Costco membership card or something. They will last much longer, but they will still die like any other battery when they're abused enough. I think they can be recharged a lot more though, and (I think) they carry a 3 year warranty. (Might not be a full replacement... might be prorated.)

Don't know anything about the bushings. Are those different types for the same part? Or a different bushing on the arm? I'll get under the SS today at school and look around at how it bolts up.

Good luck.

Scott

 

Are you planning to replace the fusible links with fuses? If so, that's what I'm gonna do, as it's a lot easier to change a fuse than solder in a FL. There are three or four major ones in our cars, typically in the batter-starter area.

Oh, if you wanna Costa Red-top, just lemme know, I can sandwich one inbetween the slabs of ribs, heh.

 

The next time my links burn out I plan to. You saw my main cables, right? The bad one is the battery to block and the positive to starter isn't a whole lot better. If I do the starter one, I might just do the fuse thing now since it'll be out of the car. It's zip-tied to my sway bar which is coming off very soon anyway.

The next time I buy a battery, it'll be red top. Hopefully I won't need one in a while though. Thanks for the offer, and I'll let you know.

Keola, any progress? My car was actin' a bit sketchy yesterday so I'm drivin' my maxima. I miss my car already.... At least I spent last night cleaning this thing out and installing a cd player I had layin' around.

Scott

 

Hehe ed, I'll take you up on that red top battery offer...

In anycase, fired up the Z today, volt-gauge read just below 13 volts. Let the car run for about 20 min in idle... the needle was buried in the red zone of the guage-less than 8 volts.... So I disconnected the neg. cable, and did the spark test on the battery, sure enough it sparked a bit. I didn't have a test light nor voltmeter on hand however, so all I could do was keep on playin with the neg sparking.

Where should I go from here?

 

hehe, I also officially need a safety check !

 

Get a multimeter or a test light bro! Or just make a test light. If you have a spare 12V bulb and harness/connector, just wire it up. Wrap one wire around the ground cable, and the other wire around a bolt that will fit into the negative terminal (or wrap it around the terminal top) and bam- cheap *** test light. Make sure the bulb works first; try it in your car somewhere. Also, don't let the exposed wires touch the positive cable/terminal.

Try not to use the "spark test" more than you have to. It probably won't do jack, but it probably won't help. If it's a grounding problem, you're just sucking more juice. If it's a bad component, it could do more damage. When electrical motors and such power up, they draw more power than when they're running normally. So you don't want to give and take power off of them repeatedly. Still, I doubt you'll hurt anything.

Back to your question, you also need to take your alternator and battery in for testing.

How are your grounds? Are they snug and clean? Are there sketchy looking wires or connections anywhere? Sloppy splices?

Checker or Sears multimeters work fine. I'm sure Napa and CarQuest would carry something also. I know Checker has a "tune-up" set for around $45. It has a digital meter, timing light, vacuum gauge, compression gauge (needs adapters) and a remote starter. They are all cheap-but-they-work imported stuff, but it's a good quick starter kit unless you've got the cash for better stuff.

How does the car run? Does she idle well?

Hey Ed, are those "red tops" one of those optima-like batteries, or something different? As long as it's that spiral-gel-cell crap or whatever, that's a nice price. Do you know the brand? I'd like to look up their warranty.

Scott

 

Yup the ones at Costco are Optimas. They usually have the red tops, "deep cycle" yellow tops, & "marine" blue tops. Just a heas up for everyone though, I just went to the Costco by HCC today & the red tops & yellow tops are ALL gone! Hopefully they have some coming in soon.

 

TPI's will always spark a little bit due to the ECM life-support and if there's an alarm installed. If the battery and alternator are old and crusty, I'd replace them both. The alternator sounds especially weak, heh.

 

Oh yes, I forgot, i have a crack in the air cleaner ducting at the base of the hood, you know the thing that looks like this

l l
/ \
/ \

the crack is about the length of my hand.

Is this causing any damage to the engine or parasitic power loss?

 

If its behind the filters then it might be letting unfiltered air into the engine. I'd just throw some hardcore tape over the crack as a temp fix (prolly need a new one, ebay got the deals). Hey I got my green car done so now I'm gonna be dropping the T5 on my SC this week. So I'll definately get a good look at the T5 TQ arm bushing, and I got space to work on another car. So if you want some help swapping your bushing I'm down. I also got a good battery you can use to test your electrical (sorry not name brand hahaha).

 

Thanks again shawn, i'll definately get back to you on that.

On a side note, how many times would I have to stall and start the car up again to drain the battery?

(just asking because I stalled quite a bit learning to drive stick... I got it down now though hehe....)

maybe my electrical troubles are simpler than they seem... I wish.

 

Don't know, but I HIGHLY doubt that'll cause any problems. Just amplify current problems with the eletrical system. So, if you stalled out a LOT and your engine takes her time starting, then maybe your problem isn't too bad and it just makes it seem worse. If you engine fires up easily on every crack, I doubt you would ever notice the amount of drawn power.

Take advantage of any help you can get. You know we're all here to help.

And by the way, ignore my previous comment on hood shocks. You can do it with one person and one prop, because you'll be using your arm to hold it up anyway. I misconstrued the way the top end "fastens" to the hood. Took me 30 seconds to change both once I saw how they pop off. Now I can reserve my "hood prop" for hatch prop duties.

Scott

 

So, under normal operation, my voltmeter on the dash should read above or around 13 volts right?

I'm currently reading only 11-12 volts on it. But I did buy the alternator at Checkers, and am gonna try to figure out how to install it... anyone got any tips? How do I deal with the belts and all? Well, being totally unexperienced, I should at least try to learn how to do this hehe...

 

13V is fine at idle if you've got the radio or something on. 11-12 is loooww if you aren't running everything. If it's raining and you've got your wipers, lights and defogger on, you'll be dipping very low at stops. Many things won't even run without at least 10-11V.

What manuals do you have? They're really only good for the torque specs and part identification if you don't know what something is called. I've never looked up how to change an alternator so I don't know which ones are most helpful or how detailed they get.

I'm guessing this is what's in the manuals: Disconnect negative battery terminal. Loosen accessory bracket(s). Remove alternator. Installation is the reverse of removal. Tighten belts.

Here's your tips for alternator replacement-
-ALWAYS disconnect the battery ground (neg) cable first.
-Compare the two alternators and make sure everything fits and clears if there are any differences (BEFORE starting the engine).
-Don't hand tighten bolts. ALWAYS torque them down.
-Remember which wires go where. You may have a 1-wire alt, so that's a bit easier I suppose.
-Be careful when reading voltage off the hot of the alternator. (Or when using metal tools with the battery hooked up.) The alternator case is its ground.

Find out what the belt tension is supposed to be. I don't know if you have one of those auto/self-tensioning things or not. Either the book will say, or just make it between 1/2~1". Or, "tight enough that you can't slide the pulley with the belt stopped."

 

Voltmeter on the dash is not accurate, use a digital voltmeter on the battery. However, looks like the alternator needs replacing anyway. Assuming you have the single serpentine belt, changing the alternator is a 15-minute job. Like Scott says, negative bat cable disconnected, then loosen the serpentine belt with 1/2-inch breaker bar in the tensioner socket, unbolt & remove alternator. Replace with new one, tighten to "snug" connect single wire and reinstall belt. Reconnect battery, start car, enjoy refreshed electrical power. BTW, if your battery is BAD, it will not hold a charge no matter how good the alternator is. If you want to do it at my place near Stadium Mall, you're welcome. It is easy. I have a battery charger if needed. There's also a Checkers right around the corner if you need a blower or NOS kit...

 

Good point about the battery, Ed.

Make sure it's mostly charged before you put in the new alternator. Otherwise, your new alt won't last very long. If the battery can't hold a charge, you can just charge it up and drive over to sears or checker and pick up a new one right there. Or do the redtop thing.

Point is, you need both a good battery and good alternator to keep both in good working order. Once one dies, the other will probably follow.

Batteries and alternators are probably the easiest things you can replace. It's a good learning experience. Just make sure you always disconnect the ground cable and you'll be fine.

Scott

 

I think I may have found the culprit for my electrical woes. Under further examination, I found that the grounding end of the power cable at the anterior end of the alternator was grounded on the alternator itself (bent so it touched the casing). Would this have caused an internal short of the alternator, and or caused all of my problems?

 

shirt answer YES....

 

Yep....

You mean the thickest wire is contacting the case? That little connection makes a huge difference and isn't always caught "until it's too late." Is the terminal ring corroded or powdery?

There should be a small gasket on the new alternator. You might want to replace the whole wire if the resistance is too high or if it looks damaged at all. Did that wire get really hot before?

Replace the wire, use the new alt, and buy a redtop. Then pray for no more problems!

Scott

 

Did the seller mention any type of electrical trouble at all?

The guy who sold me my 'bird told me "you might need to jump her once in a while." Told me that AFTER he got the cash though....

 

No, the seller told me that the car had no electrical problems, nothing wrong at all aside from the torque arm bushing....

kinda fishy.

In anycase, i've isolated the problem to the alternator, but have had a hell of a time tryin to take the old one off. There is soo much crap on the damn bolts that they are friggin impossible to take off with a ratchet, I think my bit has removed or destroyed all the grooves on the screw. So now im not really sure im capable of removing the damn two screws. What would've been a 15 min job is taking me now over a day. Oh well, hope to get it runnin soon hehe.

 

Don't you love solving other peoples problems that they got rid of

 

Whenever I get another car, I'm alway resigned to replacing the battery, alternator, starter, radiator, hoses, brakes and tires -- those are the parts abused until the bitter end.

Spraying "Liquid Wrench" the day before makes taking "frozen" joints apart easy. Also, make sure you have a full set of American and Metric tools, often one or the other will fit better depending on the wear of the union. When reassembling, put some bearing grease on the threads so next time it's easier.

Oh, forgot to mention IMPACT TOOLS. These can do the job when all else fails. The best are air-driven, but I've got a 3/8-inch drive hand impact tool that has pulled my bacon out of the fire. Works best with a short-handle brass 5-pound whacker, which I also have if you want to get serious.

 

Stubborn bolts and limited working room... nice....

Use PB Blaster and/or Liquid Wrench (Checker/City Mill) and keep using it. LOTS of it.

Tap/bang the bolt staight on and a little lighter from different angles.

You can use heat to break the tension, but sometimes using heat isn't a good option. I like to use "cool cans." Those air-in-a-can aerosols from computer or electronics stores work well- if you can find them at a reasonable price. (Shake liberally and hold the can upside-down. Don't freeze your skin too much with it.)

Use the tightest fitting wrench that you have on it. (Try to go down a size and hammer it on.) I like 6-points for stubborn bolts, but you can do it with a 12-pointer, since most box wrenches are 12er's anyway.

If it's too rounded for a solid grip, try vise grips or some sturdy pliers.

Use a combination of those and keep spraying and tapping.

If none of these work, just SOAK the crap out of it and leave it overnight. Try it again in the morning before you start using clippers, cutters or chisels.

Grinding the sides sides can help, or drilling and using easy-outs if you've got the room.

Do the easiest before you start grinding or cutting, otherwise you might end doing a lot of damage and waste a lot of effort instead of just using a little extra intellegence and patience. Trust me....

Scott

 

Oh, forgot to mention IMPACT TOOLS. These can do the job when all else fails. The best are air-driven, but I've got a 3/8-inch drive hand impact tool that has pulled my bacon out of the fire. Works best with a short-handle brass-headed whacker, which I also have if you want to get serious.

 

Popped out the screws with a vice-grip, slapped on the alternator, now she's runnin fine, and strong. All that I need now is the torque arm bushing. I hope the arm itself aint too jacked up.

 

That's good. Get your battery checked and recharged once more in a few days to a week. If it doesn't need much, then you're probably good to go.

A perfect new battery can hide a bad alt for a few days, and a perfectly running alt can hide a bad battery for a few days longer. So, if you need to replace your battery, you at least want to be aware of it before it's too late.

If 4th gens are the same, then that bushing doesn't look too hard to replace if you can get your car high enough in the air. Kinda tough working area and angles, but nothing too bad.

I suppose you need to loosen the rear bolts... and tighten them all up together? Would it matter if the suspension is loaded or not when it's tightened? Hmm... let us know when you find out and do it. I'm interested in how it's done also. Might want to soak those bolts overnight first.

Scott

 

Hey guys, would a busted torque arm equate to less power to the wheels? Somethings definately not right about the power on my car, it doesn't feel as torquey as it really should. It's got way more power than the RS, but not as much ***-in-the-seat power in the first few seconds.