How does one know when it is needed. Is it merely a stopgap measure? Is it for when you cannot run high octane fuel or have too much compression, improper quench etc?

Am I misunderstanding why people are running it? Does it add a mass of power? Will I have to run it?

 

its a bandaid to run more boost and/or more timing instead of race gas

So in essence once you reach the "knock" point of your motor....if you would install a water/alcohol injection system you could add more boost/timing

 

thank you, curiousitygot the best of me.

 

http://www.teknett.com/pwp/drmayf/injchem.htm

 

thanks for that article willie but it reads like "if you dont use water injection you will blow your $hit up" it has no regards for fuel quality or other forms of intercooling.

 

It’s not exactly a bandaid. The reason that BSFC goes up on boosted engines is that the additional fuel is being used to cool the chamber and also in some ways accelerate the combustion to prevent detonation. You can create exactly the same effect by replacing the fuel with water (actually, water is better at both controlling detonation and an equal mass will have result in almost 2x the cooling).

In other words, it works better then fuel for what the engine needs, but if the engine can’t get water then fuel can be used as a bandaid

 

I don't have any hard core results with mine but i'll tell you its pretty much the only time is spins the living crap out of the tires over 45mph...

I run the same fuel and spark, i'm sure i could pull a little fuel or spark but for a daily driven car i'm not going to run on any edges.

think about it... that blower i'm using has a Delta T of 160 degrees at 10psi, with no intercooler.

I know my IAT sensor (its before the blower on my car) goes from 110 to ambient in a few seconds flat... you know at temps WAY hotter than ambient its really pulling the temperature down.

 

so why the basically do some really fast cars run it and some really fast cars dont?

 

It’s illegal in a lot of race classes because a lot of people have a tendency to run methanol (or other alcohol) in the water in with the mistaken belief that it will add performance. The reason it’s illegal is that in many classes you have to run ‘gas’ as fuel, and alcohol is illegal.

Without it you run some combination of more fuel, less timing, less boost, less compression…

 

i dont agree....its still a bandaid

It does work, i'm not denying that and its a great tool to use but in the end, its a bandaid.

its just one more thing to fail when you really dont want it too.....imagine:

93octane
10psi
no detonation

11psi creates detonation....so you add a water/alchy system and now you can run up to 15psi and you do. What happens when it runs out? the pump fails? etc

BOOM

That is at least my main reason why i wont run one on a built motor, if it is something you really dont care about. Have at it

 

yeah but imagine this..

93 octane,
10psi
no detonation
175 Intake charge


$300 water injection kit (for a nice one) and you have

93 octane
10 psi
no detonation
maybe a 110-120 intake charge
and even further from detonation.

Anthor misconseption is it will be hard to keep full.. I filled my washer resevior 1 time with the winter blend of washerfluid $1.30 (just some weak methonal/water mix) and i've probally used a quart in 3 weeks time...

I wouldn't imageing ever being able to go threw a gallon in a night.... hardly even a week of good driving.

 

the thing i really don't understand is the alcohol... i guess its just a bandaid for fuel... It tried it in my system last time and got no different results.

I think for removeing heat, straight water is best.

 

i am not denying that it can really help lower the IATs but i still feel its a bandaid

thats my opinion and i'm sticking to it

 

why didnt porshe's and skylines, and the likes come with it?

 

1. most owners dont check their oil.. nevermind their water level

2. most factory cars have to be overbuilt toward the safe/reliable side. they arnt race cars. therefore, it isnt needed... it could be added, but see #1

 

and why didn't my car come with a turbo?

 

i think it was a dealer only option... geeze, if the factory gave us everything, what would we do in our free time?

 

Exactly. People are dumb. Even most car guys are too dumb to do the right thing if a car requires any kind of different, regular care.

FWIW, it’s been considered… the one example at the tip of my tonge (finger?) is the GN/T-type. They’ve even got the light installed in the dash for it.

Only 2 reasons: If you live someplace cold it will keep the water in the tank from freezing, and if your fuel system can’t deliver enough fuel

Lowering IATs is not the major reason that it works. AAMOF, to get the biggest decrease in IAT’s you’d want to mount the water nozzle as far forward in the intake track as possible, to get the most detonation control, you want to mount it as close to the cylinder as possible.

Given a specific set of parameters (fuel octane, manifold pressure…) if you want to design an engine to make the most power that it can you will be running water injection. Period. If you don’t like it and want to only go partway there… then fine. If you like wasting your money and adding extra fuel at >$1.60/gallon vs free to prevent detonation, great.

If you have no reason to run it at the ragged edge, then take your compression down half a point, or take your boost down a few PSI and run a ‘safe’ combination that you don’t have to worry about this stuff with. (or just buy a Hyundai).

If you want to get thrown for a loop and truly optimize the situation, with boost, build/use a good wet flow manifold and a TBI, and then install the water injectors where your port fuel injectors would be. You’ll use the fuel delivered by the TBI to cool the intake charge (and the intake charge to vaporize the fuel to give you much better vaporized fuel and efficiency then you’ll ever get from port injection) and get the maximum anti detonation effect from the water making the whole system happy. Of course, that would be insane… why would anybody do something like that

 

ive never run it, or any kind of boost, but...


... i kinda look at it like nitrous... some people think its cheating, others just see it as a way to get more from the motor...

and for the most part, you arnt going to change peoples opinions on that... *shrug*


83 crossfire TA:
whats this about a stock lamp for it??? were they going to do it, and then back out? option?

also, ive been meaning to ask yuo for sometime now... are you silverback on some other boards?

 

You’re right and wrong.

“cheating” is only defined within the context that you’re playing under…, if there is a rule that you can’t run N2O on the car, then you’re cheating if you do.

If there is a rule that you can’t run water injection on a car (there are, to prevent people from sneaking methanol, nitro…), you’re cheating if you do.

If there are no rules, but YOU don't want to deal with the extra hassle but someone else runs faster 'cause they will, well then you're just a sore looser

They planned on running it, had an idiot light installed in the dash for it (I forgot exactly what it said, but it was something like “powerboost system”), but it never left the assembly line.

is it the fact that I can be a pompous ******* and it’s that obvious? Or is it the fact that my sig on 3rdgen.org lists 83 Crossfire TA as an AKA on other boards and lists? Or is it that I use the same avitar? (I originally drew that as a T-shirt design for another group that I’m involved with)

 

lol... a combination of pompous ******* and the avatar.