ive been doing lots of research for the last 2 weeks on these. Ive found posts that tell the person they did a good job on the custom work or the install. though no comparisons.

Besides the actual cost which is the big difference. What are some Pros and Cons for each design or is one just as good as the other?

anyone have used two of the three setups to compare?

 

I'm not sure if anyone here has tried more than one, due to either the cost, or the time needed to fab their own custom setup. My experience lies with the Banks TT manifolds, which I've had for about 7-8 years now. The ports were on the small side (smaller than the AFR 210 exh ports), and I CNC machined them to match (if anyone wants that program, it's straightforward G-code. The wastegate port is on the small side as well. The placement of the turbo often gets in the way of taller valve covers (i.e. stock OEM centerbolt fits fine, but my sheetmetal VC's didn't), and needed to cut out some of the hood supports on the inside of the hood. I machined a spacer to move it away from the exhaust port, which gave it more valve cover room, as well as a place to drill & tap for 8 EGT sensors. Depending on how nuts you want to go with optimized HP, the log shape isn't always the best either. That's about it for drawbacks.

For the positives - It's very compact, so turbos will spool very quickly. Since it's so compact, it won't radiate as much heat as a header system, especially if you coat it (I haven't, yet). It bolts on & off very easily. Spark plugs are a 20 minute job, depending on how you fab your downpipes. Dealings with the guys at Banks have always been positive as well. It is cast iron or steel (I forget the color of the sparks when grinding...), so it'll be durable, and last forever. Also, I've never had any exhaust leaks, using just red RTV on the surfaces & no gaskets.

I hope other people chime in with their experiences on their particular headers. Nothing is ever perfect, as there are always compromises. Since I haven't done much research about the other systems out there, I'm making generalities below:

Do I want a small header that spools quickly, and starts choking at 800-1000 hp, or do I want a tubular 4-1 header that supports 1400 hp, but doesn't spool for another 1000 rpms? Do I have the $ to buy something, or do I have the time & skill to fab something myself? Do I want to get in the game as soon as possible, or do I want to learn & get more proficient with design & fabrication as I go along?

 

Well here is a pic of the BBS header . They got nice and beafy stuff . I don't think I can offer an opinion as seasoned as above, but I will let the pictures do the talking and offer, that BBS has a real great guy there and he bends over backwards for his customers ( like me ... offereing to make smogg turbo headers for me ) Check out them flanges baby Check my web pagefor pics of the kit and stuff.

 

I've dealt with BBS as well and there is no aftermarket car company that has shown me better customer support. BBS has superb customer relations.

 

run a bigger turbine side on the manifold and it won't choke off as soon. I'm conviced a properly designed manifold would outrun a similar tubular header given the same design constraints, but like the beginning of your answer, don't have the time and money to prove it. OTOH, who cares, you can use either to make more power then the rest of your hardware will hold anyway.

 

but the bbs header can only fit a t4 flange nol something like an t88 or bigger

 

I bet BBS Designs would put a T6 flange on there if you asked them too. But then the turbo probably wouldn't fit under the hood. You could either ask to have a T6 flange installed and cut up a hood or you could build a header for the T6.

 

i have talked to them and they would do itbut the design sits to high for clearence fo hood and wheel well and i dont think this setup will flow that good not to say it is **** my buddy is using it and he is in hi 10s but it could be better i like the bg mustang setup better

 

I don't get what you are trying to say. Both the Banks and the BBS Designs don't do T6. I also don't understand why kit X will flow better than kit Y because I have not seen flow numbers for any of them.

How does your friend know that the headers on his 10sec car are the bottle neck? How much more could he get out of it by changing the headers? My guess is that you could do 10's with some modified stock manifolds and a good top end.

 

i know that and that is what i need (t6) yes the bbs works but with a big turbo and a good flowing engine i think tuned headers like the bg kit will flow and spool better

 

I don't know why, but for some reason I think spool time has a lot to do with downpipe flow. I would only run a T6 with a 4" minimum downpipe (5" preferred) and dual 3" exhaust. You could Y the 4" pipe into two 3" down pipes but the collector needs to be thought out a bit. I think that the inlet has less to do with spool time than the outlet does. I think heat retention has a lot to do with it also. The shortest thickest pipes maximize that.

What are your plans for the downpipe with a T6?

 

it will be a 4inch all the way back

 

Well, any restriction after the turbo will get added to the pressure before the turbo and increase E/I pressure ratio and slow spool time by about that much, so backpressure after the turbo probably has more of an effect then restriction anywhere else with a turbo system (restriction before the compressor inlet is probably a close second, in both cases they get multiplied by the pressure rato so their effects are bigger then you expect them to be).

 

Can anybody else give +'s or -'s about either manifold??

Dan

 

I have the Innovative cast twin manifolds...the are a lot like Banks, but port size is bigger, the runners are angled more forward, the log gets bigger as more runners join into it...supposed to be good to 1400hp...which is a plenty for me...downside is same as the Banks...on center housings only, valve cover clearence is tight, puts turbos a little high, but they are nice beefy cast iron, so should last forever on the street...