why do the mustang 5.0 guys have more performance parts then us they even have there own drag class pro 5.0 what is the big difference between the chevy 305 and ford 302 why does every one thiink 305 cant go fast? i know the obviuos differences

 

Better look again, there are WAY more parts on the market for small-block Chevys than for 5.0 Fords. As for their own class, there were probably more 5.0 Mustangs sold than all types of Camaro and Firebird put together.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think what he is getting at is that there are more performance parts available for the 5.0 Suckstangs than for the F-body. Which is true. From what I have seen for every 1 item we can get, there are 3 to 4 types for the Suckstangs. Now if your talking about parts for the engine alone, then your wrong. The Chevy small block is the most popular and more parts available for it than just about any other engine. Just my thoughts though.

------------------
'91 Z-28 5.7, SLP 1 3/4 headers, 4 inch Mufflex/Flowmaster cat back, gutted cats, Edelbrock intake, 8.5mm Jacob wires, MSD Blaster coil, S&W subframe setup, Jacob Pro Street Ignition, complete Kenwood system.

 

LOL..because it can't..and 302's at least do have potential. 350..now thats a different story.


------------------
"American made baby. 100% American iron. The muscle among the masses. My hero. Yep, you can take your ergonomically designed, space age, computer controlled, 4 door, cup holding map lighted split double wishbone split fold down retractable cargo covered moon roof piece of transportation and keep it. For I have felt the thunder. And I know the difference!"
JSP Motorsports
ICON Motorsports

 

...

[This message has been edited by 89ProchargedROC (edited March 01, 2001).]

 

LOL wouldn't that make the 302 have more displacement than the 305 instead of the other way around? lol

The 302 has a larger bore but a shorter stroke than a 305.

I dispute this!!! The sbC head is one of the best OEM designs going, bar none! Stock 305 heads flow more than stock 302 heads.
<hr>The guys that where pointing at the numbers game where shooting in the right direcion, but not production numbers, "car at the track", and "car owners buying afterarket parts" numbers.
Acually in the third GEN production days the Mustangs & Camaros where pretty near even in sales numbers & usually the F body even out sold the Mustangs by a few numbers. The problem was guys buying F bodies weren't buying aftermarket parts for them. The Mustang guys were! The Aftermarket munufactures saw this and the market for stang parts boomed.
<hr>
As far as a 302 making more power than a 305, or being able too... well they don't!!!
The reason the stangs where quicker than the F bodies in stock form is weight. The stangs were lighter than the F body.
<hr>
Up until the early to mid 80s More parts where available for sbCs and F bodies than for sbFs and Mustangs. Now more parts are available for Mustangs than F bodies because the people bought more Mustang parts. More parts are still availible for sbCs than sbFs because they are still the most hotrodded engine ever.

<hr>The good news is that more and more aftermarket parts companies are making things for F bodies now because people are starting to mod them more than in the past.
<hr>
The bottom line is this:
If you've got a car you like & you want the Aftermarket to make parts for it you better buy what parts are availible for it. That is the only way they will make more parts availible.

------------------

Tracy /AKA IROCKZ4me
'86 IROC-Z Camaro
"Cogito ergo zoom"

• 355 cid
• AFR heads
• Arizona Speed & Marine hydraulic roller cam w/ AFR hydra-rev kit
• modified SLP runners
• TRW forged pistons/ceramic coated
• fully balanced
• Edelbrock headers/ceramic coated
• SLP cat-back
• Paxton supercharger
• Nitrous Express nitrous oxide

My IROC-Z
EFI Performance Club on Yahoo
Club IROC-Z

[This message has been edited by IROCKZ4me (edited February 28, 2001).]

 

i did make a few mistakes and you corrected them for me. you also dont have some fact straights yourself and considering your other posts i'm not going to get into a pissing party with you. so i'm not going to reply back to you in this thread.

 

yo 89,
I agree no need for a pizz party.
you did goof a few things on that post,
so I would just delete it if it was me.



I'm a 305 lover myself. I also have an 85 mustang GT and went through the same mods, porting, and tuning with that junk 302. The 302 is about the most non-torque making lump of metal that I've had the mispleasure to own. The heads were similar to the 305 as far as restriction and casting edges, but actually a little worse (especially the exhaust).
The mustang weighed 2500 lbs compared to my camaro's 3350 at the time of comparison. They were both pretty equal as far as build and tuning level, but the chevy whipped it's *** ! The 302 ran around 13.0 @ 107, and the 305 was mid 12's @105 . Considering the weight difference there was WAY more power from the chevy (especially torque).
Not sure why I gave you this comparison because it is unlikely to change anyone's opinion, but just stating where part of my own opinion came from.
it's all good though.
ODB

 

Thanks ODB for concurring some of my opinions/facts. You are absolutely correct about the effects of simular tuning on both these engines. I have worked on many Stangs, & actually like them based on their merits, but I also know their limitations & weak points.
<hr>
<hr>
I am not interested in a **** party either but my curiosity and desire to learn makes me ask...
89ProchargedROC, what facts do I have wrong here?



------------------

Tracy /AKA IROCKZ4me
'86 IROC-Z Camaro
"Cogito ergo zoom"

• 355 cid
• AFR heads
• Arizona Speed & Marine hydraulic roller cam w/ AFR hydra-rev kit
• modified SLP runners
• TRW forged pistons/ceramic coated
• fully balanced
• Edelbrock headers/ceramic coated
• SLP cat-back
• Paxton supercharger
• Nitrous Express nitrous oxide

My IROC-Z
EFI Performance Club on Yahoo
Club IROC-Z

 

the mustangs weren't as light as you think. a fully loaded power notchback weighed in around 3280lbs according to the sticker on my buddies car w/o him
my fully loaded w/t tops iroc with power stuff from the factory weighs 3360.

-also, i wasn't disputing that the productions numbers of 5.0 stangs or third gens.....i was specifying in 99.

 

80lbs is a big difference.
By the way the stickers on the door jam are GVW not actual curb weight. The only way to know that is to use scales. You might be suprised.

The hot ticket in the 80s & early 90s for a budget racer was a light LX 5.0. Quick, light & cheap. You could buy the car tweak it a little, & even buy some performance parts like nitrous & slicks and still stay under the sticker price of a IROC. It's just the way it was.

 

if you guys are really interested in comparisons then try this--
some of the reason why the 302s were generally faster than 305s and even competed with 350s (stock mind you for all my examples) has alot to do with bore and stroke.
when you look at the 5.0 F**d it has the same 4 inch bore as the 350 chevy but with a much smaller stroke (ie crank) this means less energy from combustion has to go into spinning the rotating assembly. this directly translates to quicker acceleration of the rotating assembly and when mated to a lighter car (if previous posts are correct) this will result in more energy into accelerating the car.
now the 305 chevy on the other hand is limited to a smaller bore but has the same crank (stroke) as a 350 chevy. this makes for good mechanical advantage over the longer crank throw (more torque) but is a limitation at higher rpms where the mustang makes its power. the larger crank actually takes more energy to turn and mated with the heavyer Iroc or T/A this is a no brainer as to why the stock mustangs were fast.

I cant speak for dragstrip racing but I do know for circle track and nascar and all other road racing that you want your torque to be made at the highest RPMs as possible (practical). with the same amount of torque as you have now , if you move that curve up in the rpm scale you will make more HP and get quicker acceleration.
the large bore small stroke 302 is simply suited to high rpms better than the 305 and even the 350 BASED SOLEY upon the lower rotating energy of the motor.
there are also some valve shrouding issues that make a difference here but I dont think I know enough about them yet.


now remember all those road racers I talked about? well guess what nascar does to get 358 displacement? I cant remember exactly what the ratio is but I think they use the smallest crank available with a huge bore and they make peak torque at 7000 rpms plus.!
try doing that with a 383 stroker. youll more likely get closer to that rpm level with a straight 350 or a a 350 with a 289 crank (sounds kinda like f**ds 302 doesnt it?)

 

you're right on with what you are saying 88305tpiT/A.

Interestingly enough though, the 89 Stang 5.0 five speed and the 89 F body 5.0 5 speed had the same peak torque (300 lbs/ft) and they peaked torque at the same RPM (3200).

The Stang had 225 HP @ 4200 RPM.
The F body had 230 HP @ 4600 RPM.

The GM 5.0 actually ran a higher RPM HP peak and a slightly higher HP number.

------------------

Tracy /AKA IROCKZ4me
'86 IROC-Z Camaro
"Cogito ergo zoom"

• 355 cid
• AFR heads
• Arizona Speed & Marine hydraulic roller cam w/ AFR hydra-rev kit
• modified SLP runners
• TRW forged pistons/ceramic coated
• fully balanced
• Edelbrock headers/ceramic coated
• SLP cat-back
• Paxton supercharger
• Nitrous Express nitrous oxide

My IROC-Z
EFI Performance Club on Yahoo
Club IROC-Z

 

By the way...
How about a 350 with a 283 crank? Sound kinda like the 302 Chevy put in the 1st gen Z/28 to make the CID limit in the Trans Am series.

------------------

Tracy /AKA IROCKZ4me
'86 IROC-Z Camaro
"Cogito ergo zoom"

• 355 cid
• AFR heads
• Arizona Speed & Marine hydraulic roller cam w/ AFR hydra-rev kit
• modified SLP runners
• TRW forged pistons/ceramic coated
• fully balanced
• Edelbrock headers/ceramic coated
• SLP cat-back
• Paxton supercharger
• Nitrous Express nitrous oxide

My IROC-Z
EFI Performance Club on Yahoo
Club IROC-Z


[This message has been edited by IROCKZ4me (edited March 02, 2001).]

 

Nascar? that's apples & oranges.
Try running one of those down a dragstrip.


To confirm the weights stock without driver.

1986 Irocz auto w/T-tops = 3450 lbs
1988 Mustang GT 5-speed = 3250 lbs
1985 Mustang GT 5-speed = 3050 lbs

A friend of mine named Jim sold the 302+5speed out of his 88 Mustang GT. We picked up a stock 350 TPI engine from a wrecked 88-Irocz, sold the TPI, and put on an Edlebrock intake & Carb. Jim put on the stock log-style exhaust manifolds, and ran a turbo350 tranny with the stock 3.08 rear gears. With no tuning at all it ran 13 flat right at 110 MPH. That was on fully treaded radials & a 2.2 60-ft time.

There is no comparison between the stock 350 (or 305) and the ford 302.
Put log manifolds on the 302 with the turbo350 tranny & 3.08 gears and the same car would be lucky to break into the 16's.

 

Im moving this to general engine.
Keep it clean guys!

------------------
-86 IROC
Vortech Supercharged 406
-=ICON Motorsports=-
"Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?"